FRIENDLY SOCIETIES' CONFERENCE.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXI, Issue 7008, 3 May 1884, Page 6

FRIENDLY SOCIETIES' CONFERENCE.

The adjourned meeting of delegates and members of the Friendly Socities' in reference to-the the. Friendly Societies' Act was held last evening at the Cook-street f Hall. There was"a large and folly representative attendance, and on the motion of Mr. C. S. Wright, Mr. George Leahy was called to the chair. Mr. Wright was appointed Secretary of the meeting. He read the minutes of last meeting which were confirmed, '-arid he then read the report of the sub-committee, as follows:— "

■ Auckland, 2nd May, 188*. Beport of sub-cotnlflUtee appointed by the delegates of Fiiendly Societies to obtain statistics for the purpose of showing that the basis of;valuations, by the valuers under the Friendly Societies Act, is not a fair one,—Gentlemen : Your committee hive to report' that with reference to the Friendly Societies Act, it would be inadvisable to attempt any farther alteration beyond what was done at the first meeting; for on comparing it with the English Act we find that with the exception of the clause objected to, it, contains nothing more than what is laid down in the one in force in Great Britain. Your committee laving heart that Mr. F. W. Frankland, actuary for the New Zealand Government, was about to vfcit Auckland, prepared a series of questions to be submitted to him. and on Thursdar, 17th April, your committee met Mr. Franklacd and submitted the questions prepared. Now, in order that you may more easily understand what was done, we give you each question submitted and his reply thereto :— Kirsf question : That it is advisable to strike out the latter portion of clause 1? snb section D, page 9, because it la not fonnd in the English Act, and because it confers no benefit upon societies, but entails needless. expense and labour. Answer: The retnrni, as required by the Act, are of great importance, not only to the Government, but are also of great importance to Friendly Societies, bo as to ascertain more correctly a true record of the experience of sickness and mortality in New Zealand, ami in order also to obtain a correct basis upon which to valu£societies. He could not recommend tbe Government to strike ont the clause, but would recommend that lecretarles should be paid lor furnishing the returns, at the rate of 7s 6d for a society of 50 members, and Si. extra for every SO or" portion of 50, for n society having "more than 50 members. Second queV-ioa : That, in our opinion, 4 P.O. is too low to value societies; we, therefore, recommend that societies be valaed at 6 P.C. answer : That be did sot object to societies being valued at 5 P.C., but Be was of opinion that 4 P.C. was the only safe basis for societies to be valne'd at. He also thought that, from recent statistics obtained, that account ought to be seoessions,.-and. that' two valuations' might be made; one to bo a rigid• valuation at i P.C, the other a valuation allowing for secessions, and at 5. or'6J P.C., provided that societies could show that they had .been obtaining that amount of interest upon their invested funds. Third queition: Wβ also think that the avenge expectation of existence of members in societies is too great, which- is supported by table No. 1. ' We also think that the experience of sickness is Auckland is not so great as in England, as shown by table No. 2. Asswer: That so far as he had compared tbe mortalitT tables of New Zealand with those obtained in England, he was of opinion thit the rate is, and will be, under that experienced in England, but taking secessions into consideration, he thought that members would not remain in societies the time that is laid down in Ratcliffe's M.U. Tables. He also thought that the experience of sickness in Kew Zealand would not come up to that experienced in England, but wonld be able to speak more confidently after au examination cf the returns for the last year had been completed.- Fourth question: We submit that a new basis or . method of valuations should be introduced, so as to >how how much each member ought to have to his credit each quinquennium, as per table 3 and i. Answer: fie thought that the proposed basis, or method of valuation would be better understood, and would- work very well, provided that all societies adopted a scale of contributions sufficient to meet all future liabilities of the society, but it would entail a large amount of work upon valuers to prepare such tables. Mr. Frankland then asked if we could suggest any alteration in the form of returns, when after considerable discussion it was decided "That the list of ages of members on the last page of the sickness and mortality" return could be dispensed with." That in the annnal statement of receipts and expenditure, that portion headed assets and liaoillties could be simplilied. Wβ therefore now recommend that no objection be raised to clause 12, sub-section.p, provided that Secretaries be pAid for furnishing the returns. We also think that the amount to bo recommended is a faSr oca. We alio think that there is evory reason to expect a larger amount of secessions here thaw what is experienced in England, and that by adopting the new system of valuation it will entirely do away with urobabilitiei or speculation, and that it wquld be safe and reliable; and further it vrould be more easily understood,' and more likely to induce a society if Touhd Insolvent to take steps to place it in a solvent condition.—rWe remain, ic, ffii. Jts.Mxas (Oralda), 3. F. Lovbll (A.O.F:), Skerino H. Matthbws (Chairman J.0.0.F., M.U., A.D.), Shas. Sajil. Whitjs(LO.O.F., M.TJ.), Jajies W. Cash (LO.B), T. W. White (H;A.C.B.S.) ■

■Mr. Faxts&sos moved the adoption of the report...... .'.-_ : ...■■.. . ~.'..■. ' Mr. Wright gave an ORttine of the work I tvbioh had been done by the committee. The ! proposal to pay secretaries would do away ' ivitn the objection to the demand on them to | furnish--the return required, and that provision should be made in the Act. In regard ' to the"4 per cent, basis of valuation, he ex- ; plained' why this basis was adopted ; for, while 5 or even 6 per cent, might be safe now, he asked would it be so in 50 years ? And anles3 due provision., was made for the future. Friendly Societies must collapse. Ihe cotrimittWa opinion' wasi that 5 per sent, was a fair one for the next .20 years at least. In regard to..the third question he quoted from statistics compiled from the Fountain of Friendship Lodge, one o£ the eldest in the colony, showing the numbers admitted each year since 1544 up bo the end of ISB3. The number admitted was 1082; gone out, 739; now remaining, 343: the average number of yaare of membership being 11 years 6 days IS hours. Table 2 gave statistics of returns of sickness experienced in .the Fountain of Friendship Lodge and sickness expected per RatclifFe tables from 1862 to 1883. According to theie tables the Fountain of Friendship paid £594 5s less than they should have paid. Tablee 3 and .4. showed how muoh each member Bhonld have to his credit at the end of each year of-membership. On this subject he quoted from BaddifTs and Neison's tables as to the value of annuities, and explained why the valuers did not "take secessions into consideration, as it would be unfair. He quoted Batcliffe's and Neis'bh's 'tables, showing the value or an annuity of £I,= or £I'at death and £1 for continuous sickness with and without secession. Taking without secession as the leases 6a Bid would provide for an annuity of £1, and with secession 3s 2d. There were some slight differences in the table whici were pointed out.'.'. The system recommended'in , "the'report left no opening for speculation, - *matter:which waa ot great importance..; ~t ~> •;. . : : Mr.j J. JLkydon' seconded the adoption of the'report',', which' was" put' to the meeting and -, carried'unanimously.' ,'' •-'■'- ' MK'S.'H.'Alalthkws said their next duty would be. ; to-forward the report to Government, and.ask.them to accept the recommendations' of the 'report. As they heard, the committee'did not' see any necessity for a material alteration in the Act, for it was so like the English Act that they had no ground to gramble. The alteration mentioned in the report; was, for the information of the. Government: Mr. Franklarid was'of opinion'that' some friendly societies were not solvent, hut he was unable to prove this in the absence of returns and statistics. He proposed that the report be forwarded to the Government, with a request that they accept the recommendation of the report. \ Hr. Ssiis seconded the motion. : Mr. Laing (Protestant Alliance) said as one of a society which' had not been iavited, he came he're at the invitation o£ the Secretary,, andiaccepted his statement that it was an oversight; but he thought it unfortunate that the oversight occurred. He gave his hearty' sympathy to the movement, and hoped they would be succeeaful in getting the concession they asked for from the Government. It struck him while sitting there that'they were the nucleus of a great power which would be able to demand from the" Government; what ;they.;required. He supported theresplution; .:■•--,- • Mr. Allbn.(Forester) also.supported the resolution, and corroborated the statistics given' by.- Miv Wright; as his experience of the Foresters order agreed with them. He did not, however, quite agree with Mr.'•.Matthews, that they should be in the ea'me position as England, for in the colonies there was a greater, amount oE freedom, and som'e'of the restrictions interfered with the liberty of: the subject. He contended that they: should have more liberty regarding the inVestment. of. their funds. " : ; Mr. : Cabb also supported the motion, but thought ij; would bs unfair, to Mr. Franklahd to ask .him to .adopt their plan until he-.--had- brought-out hi 3 own valuation.. ' '": 7 ' '■'. I . • Mr. Guird disagreed with Mr. Carr. "When the ■ Government received the >eport they.,'woulc}, no doubt, hand it to Mr. Frankland,' who would have'tKe opportunity tf 'comparing .it r with "'. his' o'wn statistics while 'compiling- hie own tables,' and as the session was approaching, it'was .important that no time should be lo3t. ■-" Mr. FRESCH>nggested that the report and statistics should be printed' if' funds were available. - • ..■•...- -After some farther discussion. Mr. Matthews'motion was carried. .On sthe' motion, of Mr. LoyßLt, seconded by Mr, Phillips/it ..was agree/ to send a copy of the- report and information of the etepß taken to the Chairmen of the Masterton societies. .".'.'..' '.".: '~ A dieqqssion then took place on Major AtkinadnV scheme oi .national insurance, and Mr. Carr epggeeted that. Major Atkinson should, be askod to address them .n the-stjb ject.. v,; v -■••'■ ,Mr.. .MAOT9im3:;eaid Mr.-.Fra_nkland had told him it would not interfere with socicttiee.

Mr. White moved that petitions'be drawn up and distributed amongst the delegates present in favour of the recommendations in the report, but this oppoeed ,on the ground that it! was unnecessary unless , ihe Government 'declined ,to accept the proposals, and that if there were to be petitions they should be from the whole of the Friendly Societies in;the.colony- ..■-:•

An amendment byMr.FBBSCH was carried : " That ' the. present sub-committee should remain in office, to take euoh further action as may be'necessary.", A cordial vote of thanks" was accorded to the committee, and-especiallv to Mr- Wright, for the great pains he had taken in regard to 'the committee's work. . Mr. Weight thanked the meeting, and gave some interesting information regarding the question of national insurance which he approved, and which was first started by the Manchester Unity, the object being that at a certain age a member should cease to be a contributor, after which he was entitled to an annuity. Major Atkinson's object was, he believed, to prevent pauperism. Mr. Swanson, M.H.R., who was present, was asked to give his opinion, but he said that they had managed their business eo well that he had no suggestion to make._ If the Government adopted their suggestions, they would aot on them and give effect to them. He did not think petitions would be much use during next eession, and would prefer to see the Government bring in a Bill. His object in being present was to learn the public mind on the subject. A vote of thanks to the Chairman terminated the proceedings.