GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XIX, Issue 6485, 30 August 1882, Page 6

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

" [BT TSLTCaATH— MMSS ASSOCIATES.] , ~ 1 LEGISLATIVE • COUNCIL. ; .■> j ■■ Tcesdat. - - i Ttra Coiinalinet at j.30 P-3 CAKTZEEUET AGaHnTLTOKAL'COLLTGR Colonel Basrc mOTed for a select committee : to enquire into themsMgcment of_the Uan- , teibaiy Agricultural College, stateng that i there ms a very unfavourable. impresson. abroad as to the conduct of the establishment. •. ■•*!« After some debate'the motion wza-vntaz drawn, through. the end- of the sesjion being so near. .. - ."• „THB AIIKSS BILL. The Council determined to adhere to their ameadments in the Aliens Bill, to which the Hnnc» has disagreed, and. managers appointed. ' . 1 BILLS ALTASCED.- ■' J , The Native Beservei 3511 and the Beserres in Mining' Districts Bill were read a second without- debate. Several Bills were passed through and the Council adjourned from 5 till 7.30. " ■ The Council resumed at 7.39. _ . . BILLS THROWS OCT. •. The Pharszyn and Disability Bemoval Bill was thrown oat oa the voices; The North Timaia Cemetery Sale Bfflwa3 read a second fcme. The Gladstone fiecreataon Beserve 831 was thrown oat on the motion for cominitial by 1-i votes to S.. The CoancH rose at 9. - " HOUSE OF KKPBE3 ENTATIYES; - XtJESDAT. . . - . The House inetat noon.- .' , ' ■ jaaiECXIOS'.OF TZUSGEIHS BILL. , The Protection of Telegrams 801 wa* reported from the Legislative'' Council, - 'Vitn amendments, which were agreed to. QCTEsrross AXD JISSWEBS. licplying to Mr. Scxra^, %T-. Bsvce ssid 'the Government understood that the petitioner," Walter Shrimpton, was satisfied with the action, and that there wa3 .no farther intention/ of .taking the opinion oE the Court of to whether the native Und3 .da ty paid by him was correctly assessed by-the Chief Judge* _ Replying to Mr. Wkight, . .' . " Mr. Dick said the Government would he Erepaxed to take steps to supply poblic btaiies with copies of the treatise oa the grape vine by Fred. Mohr. ' " . ' . . | Beplying to Mr. Dasisl, Mr Dick *aid the subsidy-for libraries would be proved on the snpplementary estimates, and if passed," would' be ' &s----tribnted amongst the libraries without de-. lay, , care being taken that: small libraries •sronld have a fair share of the sum. • ' 'j Fsldwick; Mr. i)JCK said it was so late in the session,feat the • Government did not propose, to press the "Bankruptcy Act this session. " The S3l would be circulated during the recess, so as to enable the mercantile public to form an estimate as to its provisions. . " " Beplying to Mr.'Stewabd, '' s ! Major :Atsissos*' said the 10. per cent reduction had been generally restored on salaries of oScials.- ' ' - " The House adjourned at 1 until 2 p.m. ; " The Hbnse resumed at 2 p.m.; : . ' In answer to -Major Te.:Wheobo, as. to whether the Government had earned oat the recommendations of the Native' Affairs Commitfajfi on the petition of Hon Patewheraj "Mr. Bstcs said."that some of the reports hid not yet been, concluded. .As to;, the petition of "S\ irema Waitangi, it.was the intention of the Government to give effect to the recommendations of the committee. THE AMSESTT BILL* ' Leave was given to Mr. Bryce to introduce the Amnesty Bill. " • . . ; riESTBEAOTSG. . ; The Agreement Valuation Bill and the Greymoath Native EeS2rve3 Bill were read a' first time. " " AMESDMEXIS ACBBED TO.' p On the motion of Mr. M-'WVGBEE* the amendments made" by theLegislatiyeCouncil re the Employes Liability Bill were agreed to. 1' : The Council's, amendments in the Protection Telegrams Bill were on Mr. Feldwick's motion agreed to. '". 'i COUSTIKS ACT AMESDMEST BILL." A message was- received from the Acting Governor, enclosing:, a :-Bill -to amend the Counties Act, which was read a first time. NEW PLYMOUTH HABBOUK BOAKD. •• Beplying to Mr. Weight, Major ATKISSOS said the attention of the Government had been called to the proceedings of the New Plynwath Harbour Board on the 23th of July last, -when, without a quorum, they resolved to expend a portion of the Board'sfund in* the purchase of land from the Public Hall Company. He beliived , there was .some doubt a3 to what constituted a quorum, and .apart from that the Government could - not be held responsible for the acts of a local body. The trustees of - the 25 -per cent, of the land ; fund were all responsible men. The Marine Engineer had, not made any official report on the progress of: the work, but he had communicated, to him. (Major Atkinson), an opinion that the.work was being fairly well done, although perhaps; there might' *be "some unnecessary extra-: vagance in the mode of procedure. S2COXD , ; The following Bills were read a second timsTe Aroha Township, Borough Hamilton Boundaries, Auckland; Museum endowment, Auckland Improvement Act Amend-' ment, Explosives and Dangerous Goods. ;.; LAW BILn.-. '..;:; - Mr. Dick moved the second reading of the ' Law Practitioners Bill. 1 ' He explained that the Bill differed from the one which passed that chamber a'few weeks ago, inasmuch as it required an examination in general know-; ledge, as well'a3 : in law. Hitherto it was only barristers; who, had passed in England " who had. been admitted to practice in this colony without undergoing an examination. Now,-anyone adniitted to practice in any of Her Majesty's dominions' would be entitled to the same privilege.:" Articles of indenture would also be dispensed with. ". - " ' ' ! The motion was carried and the Bill was read a second .time.. \■_ .-;.'.; _-'j ;

EOAD3 A>"D BBIDOES COXSTECCIION BILL. j. Major Aiktssoit moved the second read- ' ing of the Beads and Bridges Construction ' Bill. :The' : main feature of the Bill was to ; ' aet apart the money, and leave it to be distributed by self acting machinery fordistrictroad •purposes. / No grant was proposed to be mad el There was simply a provision' for advances. The only works in which the Government had any discretionary power; was 'in the caae of accident arising from roads or "bridges ' being washed away,-or otherwise destroyed. ' Then 20 per cent, of the land fnnd was'to'be : set apart for opening up the Ci'own lands. They -desired to see, the Bill ;paa3ed r bat in committee they would be prepared to accept reasonable amendments. _ He asked! them to v view the Bill as a provision made for " the - local bodies'.' ' Whatever ; the machinery/ inieht be, he thought they would agree with ' him that this must be the guiding principle '' of their administration,-unless ■ they- were prepared to take over the main roads.'-and ; provide for them byannual-votes. = V ! . ; - Mr: Mostgombky pointed - out : that - the *(Government had most, extensive In the malteis'of defining 'the : ma»n roads,- the ' 'proviso that tHey.shbnfd be approved 'bj^-the ite^ ,^v^d'^lHhi^, *tet*pm(^cany it could have very little effect. Tismode of finance was not by any means that complete severance of general and local finance

as he would. have desired. '' Its tendency -was to place the local bodies at the'mercy of the central power,' whereas-they should be in a '.iadependait .oijthat power. They'irefe to Twrrow_a£_sper cent.,"and lend it cot;to the local < bodies.at 4- ; .He never 'could have" thafr'anomaly explained.It was not a sound system of finance. Wsy not make the rate, charged the same;as the rate paid? The general taxation.. of the country woold be left to make good 1 per i cent., an*l that 'vras, as "lie. had. observed, not by "any means a" sound system <of-finance. The machinery /was admirably to place the local bodies, at the. mercy of, the Generxl Government/ and for tliat reason he would vote agiinsi its second leading. - He hoped it would share a fate sicoilar to that of its predecessor la3t year.' 1 .. - ' Mr. ffrss WttutaaiS-thought the administration of the Hill as it stood would be a difficult-one. "Great complication wonldarise to how the moneys were to be refunded -by various bodies. ' it., *as rather'enrioas that in ..this KH local taxation was provided for, while at the same time that class of taxation -was stoutly repudiated in the construction of railways, and yet all the objections.applicable/to thelatter i applied to this BilL They hiu? made main roads-of a very superior order, ,as. witness the main roads from'.Christchnr:h and DtmThese were made out of general revenue, but now > for • the; fnture anyone wanting -naic roads- throngh his property would hare "to contribute one^foarth'of the cost. That seemed to him most unfair. It was an argument which weighed -when the question came up in with the railways, and he "was at a,lass tohnow o how . it did weigh now". Then, lie could see that a conflict.of acHiority "-was*likely to arise. Supposing ■ one county - wanted to -ihafee s road; and the adjoining county declined to makrthe remainder of the road throughats territory, the action of - the one would he neutralised'.by ..that of. v the ■ other.-. ..Then-it would tend to create a inost pernicious system of rog-rolling. It wonld give theXipveri; ' ment of the day more power in that direction than any Act now in operation. Under circumstances he could not support .the ' BilL . ~ i . Mr. Button supported the BilL He.ad-! r mitted that the, mode of distributing thej funds to local,bodies had a suspicion. oifavouritism. / On; the other hand;, it was plain,'on a , moment's reflection, tljat all J methods for raising and distribating:money were more or less exposed to that imputa-. tion. He was told that local bodies "ought ' to be left to "tax themselves, but he con- '. tended it to \ -open np the country by that means. The ■; subsidy sjstem. had proved, itself to bo' a i; most unworkable.one..j.Jt.gave to those that •had, and took from.thpss that had not.

Mr. Bathgate looked upon the measure as designed by the Gk)Ternment for centrali ising purposes, and not for the social wellbeing of -.the, community. The "whole - principle of the Bill wa3 - bad.-' ' l.t proposed_ grants in. aid, which ms a most repre-hensible-practice. Loans ,to local bodies were equally as bad. .On every ground he objected to the Bill before them. " Mr. Hcbst blamed them for condemaing theßill without propounding a better remedy for the difficulty.' He. reviewed the present system, and showed that the proposals in the Bill would be a great improvement thereupon. . He supported the Bill. "Mr. -Moss" said the. Bill meant more borrowed money' taken; out. of the Savings Banks, ..&c.,-/for which Treasury Bills were.floated. "The principle of the Bill.wa3 a very bad one. " . " '; Mr. Ssiith looked upon the Bill as an improvement on the subsidy system; , ;He would support theßill; subject to, the understanding that in committee he would move in the direction of getting alterations made :in-the details of the measure. - Instead of submitting plans, - tc.,';for the;approval of the Government, he thought that it should be sufficient to have these approved of by the District Engineer. ' _ • ' Jlrl Holmes opposed-the-Bill, and was interrupted by the 5i30.p.m. adjournment. l .; The House resumed at 7.30"p.m. ' ilr. "VV. C Buchjl.va>" supported the BilL : Mr. J. \f. Thomson opposed it. Mr. Ptke also opposed the Bill, contending that it was another step to .cards destroy-ing-self, government, and .centralising all power and dominion- in the Government-at Wellington.'' it was a Bill admirably adapted for North-Island purposes, but for the South it was absolutely useless. ■; i." i. : Mr. Hctchisos'. criticised the Bill adversely, giving it as. his opinion that the Government was either unable or unwilling to produce a workable Echeme of local selfgovernment; ; ; • Mr. DkLiutouk' -agreed; in ; the,';opinion that the Bill would, not. suit .sonthern New; Zealand. .Tbe settlers consisted largely (in the interior' of Otago," for example), of run-; holders,'- and- having at tha best a preca-' rious. tenure. They would be always^found, voting against improv.ement. It would: .principally .benefit - freeholds of inferior' value, as they would b2 ready to rate them-' selves' in order that 'they might materially improve their holdings. The trust funds were always"-available to the extent of £100,000. , That was a. peculiarity,of this' Bill. ' The Government would not'accept the' .debentdres of the local bodies as against the trust fund. Thatshowed-the doubt as to the value of these debentures. A single costing £5000, would mean an appropriation by the local' body of at least £500; per annum. Now, such a work, however necessary, would be opposed by the settlers who . were not likely to be benefitted by such a .wort .-.."J:.," " !

, Mr.. Fergus believed in measure on : the principle, that a half loaf was better jthan no bread., ; f ;

Mr. Macasdeew sail that the-previous speaker-had : talked .'about the land fand. Had he i'been.*.able to depend upon the support of him and his friends he would .have -tabled a motion to the effect that no : system of local finance was satisfactory from whi.ch the:land :fund was. excluded. : The local bodies should be put in a position, to raise /money fori their :owa purposes. . Originally :the theory was that the body that raised .it should be allowed to spend it. They were now reversing that very prudent adjustment. He would vote against the Bill. :■> j.

'■•Mr. Seddox gave it as his opinion .that the Bill would not suit the . condition of affairs oa tho West Coast.

- Mr. DoDSQx looked upon the Bill as one that would suit "the- requirements ; of the colony./ ••• ' ? *''"' ;

'Mr. Joyce designated the Bill as a mechanism of delusion's. : , It made the local bodies believe they were' getting something, -when in reality they were ' 'getting absolutely .nothing.!, It would have a demoralising effect on, their Instead of coming'to 'Wellington /to"legislate,.'. they''would .'more, than ever be driven to hunt aftfer". Ministers" and. propitiate their good graces,' in' order that'they might secure something for their particular "districts. ■

Major .ixkiNSoif, in.reply, 'said' he was-astonished-at many of the views expressed.) The arguments' of-many of; them amounted- ' to thisY-The Gbyernmentis'corrupt; members are - corrupt, and, •'.the 5, local bodies 'are' corrupt/ !, In fact,'"they'Uived; : niovedi 'Arid had their'being in - a' of corruption.; ir The cne ot ject the Government' had in view was'to remoVe this money from all-danger "of-political pressure. '■>; If" in committee a better way can be shown <to achieve this purpose, the Government will be ready, to accept it. The law laid down in the Bill how the money was to be applied. How

oooid cbiruption be" practised in that case? t Before any money' cculi be borrowed, ia, ■ medal " rate;'."trowd ba-re -to 1»e~ levied?'; 4bs" mind no. better security f tedd * lie given. It" bad.: been ; said. that': he , slnired bis "district, by not: making ■ 'orer: the-debentures to local:bodies, v The ; fact was, * that the money "would have to be ; borrowed in" the first place before it cooldbe ; distribnted/or . it the people sent members pigged to get a remission of i these ;, Hien -.they, would just, have-to-bear,its repayment in some other Way- TheyVwere. liable for its repxymeot, arid, if they did notrepay it in one - ironld have to'do- soin 'another, "Main roads roads, and be venture!'to • say ; there was' not a conrity in. the Island but" would take advantage Hof ?it -In 1 - further - support., of that"he had to' say- that only a ; very ill proportion "of ;thwe "courifies - hadreturned answers adverse tothe Bill.-; It would pest -with, the conntiesto say whether they wanted a ' Parliamentary rosd mode or not, and tliQ making of one ioad would not -be - dependent entirely?bn the' consent r o£ another' county. It would. be'-absolutely impossible to "sever the finance- of the local bodies from the General it was pro*, posed by the BilK inasmuch as thatthey both derived their revenues from the sa-ne source 7—vi}':., thentepayera' pockcta. After studying T;je question for - tHree r years/ ho' had no hesitation msaying-that this was ■ themost practical scheme he could-devise. -The Bill 1 ; only dealt with : tte~con3truction -of . main . roards, not <the ; maintenance of those roads. —- " • - - i -The'/motjon ;for; the , second readingj wa3 , ; then pat:—Ayes, .34j_npes, li. I 2i.s = -,i>.-..>;vv.%;|Ulfe«BpfJ n S; L :