GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XVIII, Issue 6116, 24 June 1881, Page 4

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[BY TELEGRAPH —PRESS ASSOCIATION.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. THURSDAY. The Council met at 2.30. THE PROPERTY TAX ACT. In reply to Mr. Hart, "Mr. Whitaker said the question of amending the Property Tax Act was now under consideration. A Bill would be probably brought in remedying defects, among others possibly settling the question of the liability of persons like Mr. Tollemache. FENCING BILL. Mr. WniTAKER informed Mr. Holmes that a Fencing Bill would be brought in if there was any chance of getting it through. If otherwise, a temporary Validation Bill for Provincial Acts would be passed. SIR J. VOGEL'S LETTER. Mr. Whitaker informed ,'Mr. Wilson that a letter had been received from Sir J . Vogel of such a nature, that it had been returned to him. Mr. Wilson then carried a motion, " That all correspondence should be presented." COMMITTEES. On Mr. WniTAKER's motion, Goldfields, and Mines, and Native Affairs Committees ■were appointed. ELECTRIC LIGHT ON STEAMERS. Dr. Menzies moved, " That Government should should inquire as to the practability of passenger steamers carrying electric lights to be used to prevent danger. ' After a short debate the motion was carried. THE RABBIT NUISANCE. On Mr. Holmes' motion a committee to nquire into the Rabbit Nuisance was appointed. BILLS READ SECOND TIME. The Native Lands Frauds Prevention Bill, and the Native Succession Bill, were read a second time with a brief discussion, and referred to the Native Affairs Committee. J : The Council adjourned at 4.15. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Thursday. . The House met at 2.30. HELD AND TRAVELLING ALLOWANCES. to Mr .tvicHARDSON, 'Mr. Hall said field and travelling allowances to cadets and junior officers of the Public Works Department had been withheld for the past three months, in consequence of a much-needed alteration being made in the regulation affecting such matters. These amended regulations had now been completed, and the allowance would be paid without further delay. : HOLIDAYS FOR RAILWAY EMPLOYES. Replying to Mr. Sutton, Mr. Hall said the Government had under -consideration what regulations should be made providing certain holidays for railway employe's without stoppage of pay. TITLES UNDER LAND TRANSFER ACT. . Replying to Mr. Stewart, Major Atkinson said that where it could be dispensed with, fresh surveys were not ■ required in cases where part of a block of land included in a certificate of title •under the Land Transfer Act is transferred or otherwise dealt with. As a rule, ..however, it was not desirable to register plots of lands without being surveyed. However, he would make further inquiries, with .' the view of affording as much relief as pos■sible, compatible with security of title. DISMISSED TELEGRAPH OFFICERS. Replying to Mr. Stewart, Mr. Johnston said Government had not ' communicated with the Government of any of the Australian colonies desiring them not to employ telegraphic officials dismissed or retired from the service of this colony. The names of certain partiee who had taken a prominent part in the recent strike were, however, reported to the Telegraph Departments of these colonies. KAIPARA lIARBOUB. Replying to Mr. George ■ Major Atkinson said to make further improvements in the entrance to Kaipara harbour, a lighthouse would be required. He - -was unable to say when a lighthouse would be erected, but it was one of a number of similar works at present under consideration. AURIFEROUS LAND. ' Replying to Mr. Reeves, Mr. Rolleston said that, under the Act of 1873, it was competent for the Govern- ■ ment to resume land on which gold had been ;' found, and the Government did not see the necessity for further legislation on the sub- ■ jeet. BOARDING OUT CHILDREN. Replying to Mr. Fulton, Mr. Dick said a Bill was in preparation authorising the boarding out of children committed to reformatories or industrial schools, and if time permitted it would be brought down this session. . . MANUREWA STATION. Replying to Mr. Harris, Mr. Hall said inquiries would be made as to the necessity for the appointment of a station-master at Manurowa station, Waikato railway.

BILLS READ FIRST TI3IE. In committee a Bill to enforce and collect the duties on the estates of deceased persons was introduced and read a first time (Major Atkinson) ; and also a Bill to declare lands of the Crown and native lands rateable property (Major Atkinson). THE FINANCIAL STATEMENT —LOCAL GOVERNMENT. Major Atkinson said that he proposed to-morrow (Friday) eight days, or at latest on the following Tuesday, to be able to make his Financial Statement, and that on the first sitting day thereafter he would explain fully the views of the Government in tlie mvtter of local government. EAD SECOND TIME. The following Bills were read a second time :—Auckland Exchange of Synagogue's Site (Mr. Speight); Wellington Queen's Wharf and Stores Sale (Mr. Levin); Port Chalmers Cemetery Bill (Mr. Mitandrew). Mr. Siirimski moved the second reading of the Oamaru Harbour Board Bill. Mr. McLean opposed the Bill. The land might be required for other purposes. It might prove to be auriferous, and if dealt with under this Bill great loss would be sustained by the colony. All he desired to do was to warn the House as regards the danger of the step proposed to be taken. Mr. Macandrew supported the Bill. Mr. Rolleston said that although not personally in favour of the Bill, he had deferred to the opinions of the Waste Lands Board. The motion was carried. LOCAL GOVERNMENT. Mr. Murray moved, " That in the opinion of this House local government is conducted under great disadvantages:—(l) From defects in the system; (2) from tho local funds for the payment of rates to effect local improvements being absorbed by the General Government taxation ; (3) from the counties having been deprived of the 20 per cent, of the land fund (except in the case of New Plymouth), and that tho Government be requested to bring in a Bill this session to remedy the above causes of complaint and others which may be established. He had been induced to bring the motion forward at the instigation of the County Council of the county he represented as well as other neighbouring counties, and after tracing the different steps by which the provinces were shorn of their local revenues, he went on to say that abolition had led to disastrous "results. What he suggested was, that the present Parliament |

should prepare a scheme of local government which might be laid before the various constituencies for their consideration and approval. What was wanted was a system which, for minimum of official expenditure, will do the largest amount of useful work. We wanted thrift inculcated by the wholesome rule, that those who spend the money must provide it. We wanted extraneous aid on a definite and equitable principle not determined by Parliamentary S scrambles for public money, degrading public morality, and destructive of economy and independence. The prudent and thrifty should not have to pay for the extravagant and improvideut. The principle by which a portion of the price of land was returned to the land to render it available for profitable colonization should be restored. The 20 per cent, land fund and deferred payments should be paid to the Shire Councils towards road making approved by the Government. What he would propose was, that cities returning members of Parliament should retain that independent form of local government, that other boroughs should become wards of the shire in which they were situated, but preserve their internal autonomy, their mayor representing them on the Shire Council. That ridings and highway districts should be identical, . the chairman being annually elected by the ratepayers, and being their representative to the Shire Council. That there should be one general valuation and rate for general purposes, but that ratepayers in particular districts should be allowed to rate themselves for special works and purposes. Where three or more counties and cities united, the chairmen and mayors should form the Waste Lands Board of the united shire, and should be endowed with the nett proceeds of the land or property tax in their districts. That such shire should have the maintenance and management of hospitals and charitable aid with such powers as to secure local supervision and local knowledge towards securing economical management, relieving Parliament from works it cannot satisfactorily perform Mr. Ormond said that he had agreed to second the motion, but after the statement made by the Treasurer he felt somewhat embarrassed. He was one of those who regretted that the subject was not dealt with in the Governor's speech. There were three large questions before the public at present. The first.' was local government, the second public works, and the third division of taxation. He hoped that during the debate on this motion Government would indicate the direction in which they proposed going. This question of local government should take precedence of such questions as hospital and charitable aid, as the latter broached the subject of local government. After alluding to the municipalities and their functions, he said that left them with the counties and the Road Boards. The two bodies had precisely the same work, and in fact they clashed. Litigation had taken place between thesetwo bodies in certain places as a result of that clashing. The universal opinion he maintained was that the committees were notperforming their duties satisfactorily. In that case, what was the direction Government should take ? Then , first step at improvement must be decentralization. They would also have to make permanent provision for local bodies. It was only the Government that could do that. He had an idea, however, what would be the best finance. He would not, as a private member, go further than to say that direct taxation was the proper method. Next, as regards decentralization. Tor years back they had been building up the central administration. The question was, what powers could tliey give the local bodies. The county system has not been a success, and it would be unfair to continue them by a name that had not been in the past a success. The Government should define the districts larger than they were, keeping always in view the fact that they had a' community of interests. There could be no doubt but the management of waste lands should devolve upon the districts. He would propose that the powers ot the Waste Land Boards should be vested in these district Boards, and the Waste Lauds Boards themselves abolished. The complaint was that the people had no voice in the administration of these Waste Lands Boards. The transfer of these powers as indicated would be of immense advantage to all concerned. Then again the opening of land for settlement was a function which might very well be relegated to these local bodies. He did not reflect on the Minister of Lands, but still the fact remained that this branch of the waste lands administration had caused no end of dissatisfaction to the districts. That arose simply because they had not a direct voice in the management of these ands. He next referred to education. The powers of Education Boards might very properly be vested in the local Boards. There were other functions, such as Charitable Aids, which might properly be relegated to the local bodies. He next alluded to railway management, and would give them that function also. He would give them all powers in Acts referring to local matters. Ho meant by that all that referred to the affairs of daily life in country districts, such matters as the readjustment of Road Board boundaries, &c. At present such a subject had to be dealt with by Government, a subject on which they had no local knowledge whatever. Under the old provincial system the people had a ready means for obtaining redress of grievances. Under the present system the same ready means for obtaining that redress did not exist. A settler, who had a grievance, had to come to that House or the Government ; he had great difficulty in getting a hearing at all, and when a hearing was pot the one reply was generally given, viz., that his letter had been received. In that respect alone a return to some such form of government,"as previously existed, would be welcomed by all. The objection he had been mainly met with was, how this was to be provided for. Last session Government brought down a method in the Local Public Works Bill. Whether that was the best means or not one thins; was certain, that it was better than the present system of the funds going through the hands of the central a dministration. He would ask if this House was at all likely to deal satisfactorily with this large question. Not only would they not decide satisfactorily with the matter, but he contended that they had no right to attempt it. It should be relegated to the people. In that case the business of the session should be done as soon as possible, the Redistribution of Seats Bill passed, and then they should go to the country in connection with this subject.

Mr. Hall said it was impossible for him to speak on the subject until the Government had put their views on the point before the House as promised by the Treasurer. He should, therefore, ask them to adjourn the debate until they had had an opportunity for placing their proposals before the House.

Mr. Brown characterized the statement just made as an extraordinary one, and insisted that the Government ought to be prepared to indicate their policy on the subject. Mr. George read a series of resolutions on the subject passed by local bodies, belonging to the district he represented, recommending that County Councils should be abolished and main roads taken over by Government.

Mr. Bunny moved tlie adjournment of the debate for a fortnight, to enable the Government to bring down their proposals on the subject.

Mr. Moss felt that the conclusions come to by Mr. Ormond were lame and impotent. He scouted the idea of leaving the whole question to the next general election. He asked them to consider the question- carefully, •with the view of elaborating a complete scheme. The proposal for the ' Government to take ov>sr the main roads had ■ been laughed at by the Government. His opinion was, that they were bound to take over these roads. They had taken all the revenue, aud they had left the district nothing to work ujjon. His opinion was, that the Redistribution Bill should not be settled until this question was decided upon. A proper scheme of local government -wo aid enable the number of members of the legislature to be reduced at least one-half, besides a great reduction in the expense of their attendance at Parliament. In that case they might hand over to the local bodies the property tax and other sources o£ revenue at present absorbed by the central administration. If Hie motion was put, he would ask that the following addition be made to it : — "That no Bill will be satisfactory whieh does not provide a system of local government which will relieve the General Assembly of the necessity for local legislation, thereby reducing the number of members of both Houses, and effecting a corresponding reduction in the enormous expenditure of the Central Government."

Mr. Sottot said that the county system in the North Island had worked moderately well. Mr. Wood agreed in the opinion that the motion should be adjourned until the Government had brought down their proposals. The whole question resolved itself into one of finance, and finance alone. At present they had got a machine, but not motive power. It was a constitution that could not be «ot to go. The revenue of local bodies was insufficient for these purposes. Unless they could find them money they could do them no good. This might be made an electioneering cry, but it could do no real good. Where the money was to come from he did not know. If the Government succeeded in bringing down an efficient system they could do a great work indeed; but he did not look forward to it. One thing true had been said in the debate —viz., that under the present circumstances they had come to a stoppage of their public works. Such, he was sorry to say, was the real fact of the case, and that meant something very serious indeed for the colony. Men were placed on small patches of land wholly shut out from any market, and could do literally nothing. The ratepayers, were fully alive to the fact that a great deal of money was spent in administration and very little on roaefs. What the settlers wanted was money. That was what they asked for, and instead of giving them money the House gave them institutions. They were sent there to devise a scheme of local selfgovernment, and if they went back to the constituencies and said, "We can't do it; you will have to do it yourselves," that would mean that very few of them would come back again. He was sorry that this business had not come on sooner. They had been a fortnight in session listening to long lectures on teetotalism. Then they were told they would have another eight days before the real work came on. That meant thit it would not come before them until such a period of the session as would prevent anything effective being done, and the session would end just as other sessions had done without any real good being achieved. Dr. Wallis was speaking at the 5.30 adjournment. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. HARBOURS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

Mr. Richardson moved the second reading of the Harbours Act Amendment Bill, which, after-a brief discussion, was agreed to. DRAINAGE BILL. The House went into committee on the Drainage Bill, which was reported with amendments and ordered to be read a third time that day week. LICENSING BILL. The House went into committee on the Licensing Bill. Clause 10S : Club license, £20. Mr. Reeves moved, " That it be reduced to £5." The effect of licensing clubs was to suppress bogus establishments. This could be attained by a small as well as b3' a large fee, while a large fee would be a hardship to genuine working men's clubs. Mr. Bastings thought the club fee should be £40, the same as a public licensed house. Mr. Jones concurred in this view. Mr. Saunders pointed out as a reason why no license fees should be reduced : that the effect of their present legislation would bo to reduce the number of all kinds of licenses, thereby increasing the value of those left in existence. The amendment was negatived on the voices, and the fee passed as printed. Sub-section 5 : New Zealand wine license, £1.

Mr. Bastings moved, "That it bo increased to £20," contending that these licenses would be abused for the sale of other than New Zealand wines. Mr. Wakefield and Mr. George strongly supported such a license, as being an encouragement to a valuable local industry. Mr. Turnbull opposed the proposal to grant these licenses altogether, although every facility should be granted to local manufacturers to dispose of their production. Mr. Reeves thought a colonial beer license should be provided for. The proposed licenses would simply be a cover to sly grog selling. Dr. Wallis supported these licenses. The amendment was negatived and the original £1 license carried by 30 to 17. The following is the division list : — Ayes, 3G : Bain, Ballance, Bcetham, Brown, Bunny, Colbeck, Collins, DeLautonr, Dick, J. B. Fisher, (Buller), Fulton, George, Gibbs, Hall, Harris, H. Hirst, (Wallace), Hiu-sthouse, Johnston, Kelly, Levestam, Lundon, McLean, Moss, Murray, Ormond, Vitt, Shanks, Stevens, Sntton, Swanson, Tawhai, Tole, Tomoana, Trimble, Wakefield, and Wallis. Noes, 17 : Allwright, Andrews, Bastings, J. T. Fisher, Fox, Hutchinson, Jones, Montgomery, Oliver, Reeves, Richardson, Saunders, Shepherd, Speight, Stewart, Thomson, and Turnbull. Sub-section of packet licence, £10. Captain Colijeck moved, "That after the word ' license ' the words be added ' for vessels exceeding fifty tons register. , " Mr. Levestam moved, " That the amount be £20 instead of £10." Mr. Murray wished to know how these fees were to be disposed of. For instance, would the Union Company's steamers pay the fees at Port Chalmers ? Mr. Dick said the Bill made provision that the fees should be paid in at the place where the license was taken out.

Captain Colbeck's amendment was agreed to, the other was rejected, and the fee passed at £10 for vessels over HO tons, and £5 for vessels under 00 tons register. Sub-section S : Wholesale license, £10. Mr. Andrews moved that it be increased to £20. The amendment was adopted. Sub-section 9 : Conditional license, sum not exceeding £30, at the discretion of the authorities. Mr. Andrews moved that £30 be struck out, and £5 per day be inserted. House divided. On the question that the clause as printed be passed. Ayes, 26; Noes, 24. Mr. Tole moved as an additional subsection : "(A confectioner'e license anthoris-

ing persons, who shall keep a refreshmenthouse, and shall pursue therein the trade or business of a confectioner, or shall keep open such house as an eating-house for the purpose of selling victuals to be consumed therein, tosellliquor to be consumed with such victuals during such times between the hours of S a.m. and S p.m. as the Licensing Committee shall determine, provided such licensee shall not keep any public bar or tap-room on such premises. Fee, £5." The House divided. Ayes, 19 j noes, 27. The motion was lost.

Mr. PiTr moved, as a further resolution, "An accommodation licence shall authorise the licensee to sell and dispose of any intoxicating liquor on the premises therein specified, and such license may be granted on the terms of repairing or keeping in repair any road or bridge in the vicinity of such premises, keeping a ferry or providing good accommodation for travellers, or on such of the former or such other terms as the Licensing Committee shall think fit, including the payment of a fee not exceeding £20, to be hxed by the Licensing Committee. Sir W. Fox objected to the clause, alleging that this was the description of house in which such abominable decoctions known as Maori rum, which was well known to be fast destroying the aboriginal race, were sold, and where sawyers and shearers underwent the process known as "lambing down." Mr. Dick thought the provision for special licenses under clause 7 would meet all reasonable requirements for accommodation houses i situated in remote localities. I The House divided : Ayes, 33 ; noes, 11. Progress was reported, and the House at 1.20 a.m. j The following pair was posted in the House on the division on Mr. Andrews' civil service enquiries motion yesterday : — Aye, Moss j No, Beetham.