MESSRS. HAMLIN AND HOBBSAND FRANKLIN ELECTORS.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XVI, Issue 5492, 24 June 1879, Page 5

MESSRS. HAMLIN AND HOBBSAND FRANKLIN ELECTORS.

The representatives of Franklin met their constituents last night in the Otahoha ■> , Public Hall. The night was mast incle - ment, and the meeting was not numerously attended. On the motion of Mr. Bowden, seconded by Mr. Falrborn, Mr. Luke was called to - the chair. The Chairman briefly explained the object for which the meeting was called, Mr. Hamuw, who was warmly received* explained the reasons which had induced himself and colleague to call together the electors. 1. To explain their conduct in the past session. 2. To state, as far as they were informed, the probable policy that would be suggested in the next. Although a considerable time had elapsed since the past session, still there were no startling measures which necessitated a meeting of the electors and their representatives. The last session was not of the same exacting character as the two previous Bessionß. The fact was, that although there was no excitement last session, there was a great deal of praotical work done. There were no less than sixty-four measures carried of a local and personal character, such as the Auckland Girls' High Schools Act, the Thames Girls' High Schools Act, and the Whangarei High School Act. There was a disposition in the last session to make provision for such, establishments, and higher education generally, by endowments. The Whangarei High Schools Act provided an endowment of £5000, to be obtained from the Board of Education, and the Thames High School was to obtain 4500 acres of laud. There was a very large number of the measures of more extended public and political importance. There was, for instance, the Land Tax Bill. He could not say that the measure would realise all that had been expected of it. It was assumed that the Laud Ti*x Bill would have enabled considerable reduction to be made iu t;.e duties on other articles. He considered that the duties had been takeu off too many things at once. The effect was that the benefit was not felt. The public did not appear to have obtained the benefit which was promised. It had an aspect as if the advantage had rxteuded little further than the wholesale traders, and had not reached the consurntrs There was the Tra tes' Union Bill, which legalised the meeting of working men to discuss grievances, and also the Friendly Societies. These were important social and political measures. H e thought the legislation in this direction was right. Then there was tuo Administration Bill, which did away with the succession merely according to primogeniture to the property of persons intestate. Under this act the children would participate equally. He believed that the Iwoyal assent had not been given to this measure, but he hoped it would become law under this Act, all the children of an intestate | erson would be regarded as heirs in common. One thing in the laud tax would have a good effect. It would prevent the land being held in large areas, without being benencially used. People would not be able to hold until their neighbours improved their 1 ands. The system of large estates would be discouraged. He had always favoured moderate holdings, and he would give his assistance to prevent the growth of large estates through legislative connivance or indifference. They wanted in New Zealand not immense flocks of Bheep, or herds of cattle, but a large industrious population. He supported the policy that the Government should ba the sole purchasers of native lands. He voted for the eer Bill, because he did not think that it would affect the price to the consumer. He saw no objection to it in the form it was fir3t submitted to the House. He believed that it was a fair tax, seeing that the consumer would not be affected by it. Bat there was an agitation got up oa the subject, although ttie biil itself appeared to be at» first fair in its character, but coming with the Joint Stock Companies* .tax, both fell through. Each had as much right on its side as the land tax. Then a3 to the Sheep Act. That measure was a great improvement upon the legislation of previous years. The powers given to inspectors was greater that previously existed, and there was reasons to hope that the scab would at no distant period be eradicated altogether. With regard to education, he had always given his vote for secular education. He saw* uo reason to change his opinion. He voted against Mr- Curtis'a bill wtien it was brought forward. H«i would do so again. Nevertheless, he would be disposed to give every possible opportunity for religious instruction. They all knew that a cry had bfien got up against what was called a godless system of education. He would be disposed to favour some such clause as had been adopted by the Parliament of New South "Wales. Provision was made to allow a portion of the school hours to be aet apart for religious instruction. An hour or half-an-hour be set apart each day of the week when the clergy would ho permitted to give instruction in the schools. hie was not sauguino that this would have any better effect iu New Zraland than in New South Wales. But it would do away with the cry which had been raised. Let the ministers take their half-hour in turn. It would put the ministers themselves upon their trial. He believed that the effect would be precisely the sime as in New South Wales. There were 500 clergymen in New South Wales who have taken advantage of the concession made, but only about 100 of them came forward. That shewed clearly wbat be expected. In regard to tho Broomhall settlement, he (Mr. Hamlin) voted with the Government for doing away with the whole arrangement, on the ground that there were plenty of people in New Zealand who could nettle on the land, and who had prior claims upon the Government. With regard to the Judicial ' Bill, he was sorry that bill had been defeated. He thought Mr. Barton should have been enabled to prove his charges, or th*t an opportunity should have been afforoed to disprove them before leaving the country. A Commission should have been appointed to inquire into the whole matter. It was of the greatest moment that no uncertainty or suspicion should hang over the heads of the | Judges, their discretion, their capacity, or their impartiality. The fountain of justice itself became corrupt, if the conduct of the judge was suspected. They should be above suspicion. He had attended some of the meetings which took place with regard to the Counties (Yet. He was one of those who believed that the Road -Board system had done good workthat so far as his part of the district of Franklin was concerned, the Counties Act could not be worked with advantage. There had been an Amended Kating Act passed last session. He believed by that Act, a blow was insidiously struck at Road Boards. It was the duty of those who felt the benefit of those institutions to express their opinions, and strengthen the hands of members against any future attack that might be made in the next session. A great cry had been made in regard to selling intoxicating liquor to natives. TheNativo Minister explained the policy which the Government proposed to adopt on this question. Its effect was fco give to Maoris resident iu Maori localities a power to prevent licenses being granted. The Native Minister himself brought in a Licensing Act. A third of the natives of a "locality" might prevent any licence being granted, or ten chiefs might prohit the sale of liquors in their district. This legislation would have the same effect in native districts as a Permissive Bill among i Europeans. The Chinese question came up, •

bat much importance was not attached to I it. Hs believed that a bill would be brought in next session, charging £10 a-head to | captains of vessela for any number of Chinese they should bring here. He would support the Government in that matter Then there came the question of Triennial Parliaments. He agreed with the principle embodied in that proposal. He considered the present tenure by which members of the House o£ Representatives held their seats longer than was desirable. He thought that Triennial Parliaments would be quite adequate to the exigencies of legislation. He had so told the electors for Franklin on former occasions. He held the same opinion still. The experience of a great many eminent public men were in favour of it. It would certainly secure a closer relation between the electors and the representatives. He also believed that in the Upper House the members' tenure of their seats should be limited to seven years. All present knew the fate of the Electoral Bill. In that case, the Uuper House defeated the measure, Ostensibly the ground for the opposition from the Upper House was to the " dual vote" to the Maoris. But the fact was that the Upper House desired to do away not merely with the dual vote, but the special representation of the Maori people. The effect of that would have been, if the Upper House had succeeded, to limit the representation'' of this part of the colooy very materially. The Upper House •would only give the franchise to those Maoris who paid rates. That vrould have in time simply swept away the special representation of the Maori people. It followed as a matter of course that, if such an end were accomplished, the North could be out-voted by almost two to one. The bill was withdrawn. He thought that the Government acted wisely in withdrawing it under the circumstances. He did not like to see it withdrawn, but be submitted to the withdrawal of the Electoral Kill, in the hope that something better could be proposed next session. He could not express his satisfaction with the Public Works Bill. It did not appear to him to have a thoroughly fair operation. He did not insinuate that anything was unfairly done, but when he considered the immense amount of public work done in the South Island and compared it with what was done in the North, he was not at all satisfied. When he regarded the large mileage of railway done in the South, and compared it with what was done in the North Island he could not be at all satisfied. He heard there was to be .1 new loan. If that were so, he would be inclined to ask, before voting in favour of it, how and where the money obtained was to be expended. He ■would not absolutely oppose such a measure, but he would like to know whether it was intended to spend two and-a-half millions in the Suuth, while a miserable dole was to be allocated to the North. He believed that there were in some places down South as many as three trunk lines. He should ask for a "cross trunk" for the Franklin district, aud if this were refused he might be (he did not say positively that would be the case) found to be voting against the naw loan. Thera were two miles of railway made in the South for every one mile in the North. There had been a suggestion made by the present Minister of Public Works that there should be a Minister of Works for each Islaud. He (Mr. Hamlin) coincided with that view. He believed that it was a suggestion of practical and economical value, although members who did not approve, gave as a rea«on, the expense attendant upon an additional department. He also believed the time was come for the appointment of Parliamentary secretaries. The duties of Ministers had become so multifarious. They were so often obliged to attend to matters at a distance from Wellington : their hands were full of matters requiring instant attention and immediate action. The fact was becoming more appareut every day, that in consequence of the pressure upon Ministers, to move from place to place, in doing the work of the country, the duties of Government were drifting into ttie hands of UnderSecretaries, who were not responsible either to Parliament or to the public at large. He would not further occupy the time of the electors, but would answer any questions that might be put to him. (Cheers). The Chairman said that Mr. Hamlin was ready to answer any question put by an elector, but no question was asked. Mr. E. Hobim, upon presenting himself to the electors, was cordially received. He said that, after the speech of his colleague, he must strike out a new line. The electors had a right to the honest and independent opinion of those who represented them. He did not agree with his colleague in all points of his speech; but the electors would probably not attach importance to minor differences of opinion, if their members worked well together in Parliament. He believed Mr. Hamlin was as anxious for the welfare of the district as any member they could have. He was a good man to work with. He (Mr. Hobln) had intended to have addressed the electors at an earlier date, but he deferred to the experience of his colleague. He would always have pleasure in meeting the electors, whether immediately after or immediately before each session of Parliament. He thoroughly recognised the obligations which were due from the representatives to the electors. The weather was very much against them on the present occasion. H-i confessed to the feeling that a differeut season of the year and mora favorable weather would be better suited to Parliamentary revelations. He had vhited the South—Christchurch, Oamaru—and he had seen nothing to iuduce him to prefer those districts to Auckland. He would be content to be a poorer man and re=ide in Auckland, notwithstanding the boast of wealth they had sometimes heard coming from those places. But the times were changing for them. The floods were now carrying away their property, the snow was killing tbeir sheep, and they were exposed to many vicissitudes unknown to Auckland. There was there the appearance of riches, but there were many poor amongst them, and poverty now was pinching many districts, so-called prosperous only a year or two ago. Those who thought it a pleasant thing to go to Wellington, should themselves go there and see what a member had to do. Committees by day, the House by night, getting hame in the early morning, sometimes when the sun was rising. As to education, he was convinced that the present education was the right thing. It would ever have his hearty support. A question came up as to County libraries. The money was to be forwarded to the Education Board, who provided the bocks. But these Boards seemed to think it incumbent on them to dictate not only what books should be obtained, but what bookseller should supply them. That was going a little too far. As to the land tax—that bill he thought suited the electors of Franklin very well, Boeing that there was an exemption up to £500. For himself, he thought the true basis of taxation was that all should pay according to their means. There was a Bribery Bill brought in last session, but it did not pass the House. It was a very strict bill. . A successful candidate had need to have a care or he would be upset if that bill had become law. He agreed with Mr. Hamlin that there should bo a Public Works Miuister for Auckland. He spoke to a Southern member ou the subject, and received for answer—"Oh, that u the thitl end of the Separation wedge." . They bad heard a great deal of the timber duties. He (Mr. Hobbs) lieved thoroughly in reciprocity. Some hardship might have been felt, but he did not think that this measure had done all tho muchief that had been imputed to it, Never-

theless it did have a very depressing effect upon Auckland. It w& a undoubtedly a most serious impediment to certain industries. He believed that changes of that character should take into consideration whether concession be reciprocated. He agreed in the pri no ipl es of free-trade, bat those principles wer e no t opposed to reciprocal concessions where the whole doctrine" was not followed Out to i ts fullest extent. All such fiscal ar ra ngeme°t3 required the most experienced and skil . treatment. Then there came up the question of the Volunteer land scrip. The Volunteers had well earned their title to what they got in this way, and they were entitled to the full benefit of it. To him it appeared that Volunteer land scrip should have as free curreucy, so far as the Government Treasury was eoncerned, as a bank note. But in consequenee of the restrictions which had been placed on the holders, it did them sometimes but little good. He knew of cases where great hardships, and even loss was occasioned by the scrip not running, so that the holders were shut out from the land sales. They said they would do something during the recess. The Electoral Bill was no doubt a very important bill ; it ought to bo passed, he did not agree with the Government withdrawing that measure. He did not quite agree with his colleague in this matter. It would be recollected that the bill was defeated in the Upper House upon the dual vote. He agreed with those who would give the Maori equal rights with the European, but nothing more. It was simply giving the Maori an improper self-importance, to give him more. He (Mr. Hobbs) told the Native Minister, whon asked to vote for this that be would not do so. It was said, that if the bill had passed, it would have for " Messrs. Sutton and Ormond," but if a measure was to pass for no better reason than to oppose Messrs, Sutton and Ormoad, he at least would insist upon a more convincing argument. It was really unfair to the natives to pamper them, to stroke them, to patronize them. A firm, a just, and honorable attitude was tho relation which they understood best and moat appreciated. There had been an attempt to get up a feeling against the Upper House. There were many members iu that House who were conciliatory in their disposition, who had no desire to bring about a crisis, who were anxious to do the best they could according to their judgment in legislating for the public good. They were men who were desirous of carrying out the work of the country. He deprecated any action that would bring the Upper, House into contempt. There was no reason to justify it. As to native affairs, he always believed that Sir George Grey should have been, not only Premier, but Native Minister. At one time he thought Sir George Grey really was in charge of native affairs. But, when they sent to get Hiroki, and failed, he was convinced that Sir George Grey had nothing to do with native affairs. If Sir G. Grey had been at the head of the native affairs, the result would be different. He believed there would be war in the country—that war could not now be prevented, and it' would be the last war. The effect of what had been done was to raise up Te Whiti in the eyes of the natives. His self-importance would make the natives more obstinate and exacting. The Government had now gone so far that Hiroki must be given up. The fanatical spirit would work in the same way that it had worked before. He was glad to have observed the Btand taken by Sir George Grey at the Kopua meeting. It was a wise move to take the Ngapuhi chiefs to Kopua. The fact was that the natives would not be "worked" they were quite a match for the European. They did not want to be caressed. They understood firmness. The Maoris would be right if people would only let them alone. He believed that Major Mair possessed the entire confidence of the Maoris, and it was a mistake to have removed such an officer. The officers wanted wore those who possessed tho respect of the natives. Any man holding the position of Native Minister or Miuister should be himself a man whose character was respected by natives. In native matters the land was the source of all trouble. He differed from his colleague when he said that the Government should be the sola purchasers of Native land. He believed that experience had shewn that there had been men employed as Purchase Commissioners who were not fit to be trusted with such a responsibility. No doubt there were many good men also employed in that way. But the itself was undeniable. He believed that it would be wise to allow competition. Why should there not be free-trade in land ? A monopoly was bad in principle, however it might be viewed. This monopoly by the Government was making the natives discontented. It was sowing distrust between the rices. For this reason he thought the Government should not be tho sole purchasers of native land. The Native Minister did not say so two years ago. He said that people would be assisted to buy land from natives. He (Mr Hobbs) believed that a vast deal of public money had been wasted in these purchases by Government of native lands He once asked a Purchase Commissioner, " Why are you buying such land as that ?" The question was put in reference to a lot of land that grew nothing, and contained nothing except some kauri gum. " Oh, it is to extinguish the native title," was tho reply. But the native title of such laud would be extinguished without purchase, because the natives themselves would not have it as a gift. He also objected to proclaiming land in the way that was now being done. The effect was to prevent men of respectability and substance, who could be useful, going to settlo in native districts. Such men, when they possessed the confidence of Europeaus and natives alike, were most valuable settlers. They were the true helpß to the civilisation of the Maori people. He would not further detain the electors, hut would answer any questions the electors thought fit to put to him. (Cheers.) Air. J. Gordon" asked Mr. Hobbs whether he would be prepared to support the Government in taking the necessary measures for the surrender of Hiroki ? Mr. Hobijs : I think this matter must be settled now. I should support the Government if they resolved upon that course of action. I believe Hiroki must be taken, whatever the result. It was one of the most dreadful considerations for any one attending the late Kopua meeting to see the infamous Winiata stand beside him. The Maori question has been made a bug-bear. I think that an attempt should be made to have murderers delivered into the hands of justice. Mr. Luke asked whether, in the event of denominational education being proposed in any shape, Mr. Hobbs would oppose it ? Mr. Hoiius : I am an advocate for education as it is, It is the right thing. I will oppose any form of denominational education. (Cheers.) On the motion of Mr. Luke, seconded by Mr. Faikbukn, an unanimous vote of thanks was passed to Messrs. Hamlin and Hobbs as representatives in the General Assembly of the District of Franklin. A vote of thanks to the Chairman concluded tho proceedings, aud the meeting separated. Lord Beaconafield is credited with an exceedingly good thing by the London correspondent of the New York Tribuue. A lady in conversation with him having spoken of the Zulus aB savages, ho retorted:— " Savages, madam, how can you call men savages who have defeated, oar genoral, and | converted our bishop I"