Untitled

New Zealand Herald, Volume XIII, Issue 4483, 27 March 1876, Page 3

Why is a hole torn in a man's coat by a dog like a passing stream ? Because it's a car-rent To cause nails to drive easily and prevent rusting, dip in melted grease. A fair one says she knows what she's talking about, and that it just doubles the value of a kiss to have to burrow it from under a big moustache. " Isn't your husband a little bald?" asked one lady of another in a store yesterday. " There isn't a bald hair in his head," -was the hasty reply of the wife. The Jewish World says:- Statistical researches in Germany show that suicides take place among the several religious denominations in the following proportions : 1 in 9,956 Protestants; 1 in 13.35G .Roman Catholics ; and 1 in 29,087 Jews.

... We have-now'a'full-report of -Sir-Joliijs r Vogel's speech at Wangasrai. If the "tele- /• graphic abstract had been intelligibly done, 'it would net have beensecessary to go back upon' .the full report, but <-in the -circumstances we must give the more important portions-:— ■ ■ ■ ! ABOLITION OS PROVINCES. ! f '•- I now come to the<|uestion of the abolition of provinces. During the last session of the Assembly which I attended—the session of -. 1874 —it became evident to my colleagues and me that all hope of preserving the provincial system was-at an end, and that it was . our-duty, injustice to the colony itself, to come -down at once with resolutions upon the subject. Ido not say it did not give me very great personal regret. The Government evenithen, sharing -with me the same regret, attempted to stem the tide by dealing only with the provinces of this island. /W^ 6 jou have no doubt heard, it was just as /the atmosphere was calm and peaceful, when the session .was rapidly coming to a close, ■when there waa no great difference of opinion between members, and when the Govern- , ;inent, having a large support, could hope to end the session with very little opposition— circumstances naturally pleasant to any Government these resolutions were brought down. We, therefore, did not come down with those resolutions without entertaining a ;seuse of great responsibility. . . Still I hqped then the change need only be partial. I thought we could say to the provinces of the North Island, "We will put you into.a.position in which your public services can be properly continued, and your public workS'Carried out by yourselves without entailing on the colony a cost which it cannot bear;" and that we should be able to say to the other provinces, " Continue if you . like, raise your own revenues, expend them, and when you can no longer rely on yourselves, we will adopt towards you the same course we have adopted towards the North Island." But we found that the country was not willing that there should be exceptional treatment—that it should be " all or none"— that was the term used—and we found that the financial question was raising the conclusion more rapidly than we supposed, and that the large provinces required to be dealt with just aa well as the smaller ones. In fact, fired with emulation on seeing the immense amount of provincial work which the colony bad been doing, they were endeavouring to the utmost extent to carry on the same thing, and there were nineprovinces, you may say, striving to spend as much borrowed money as ithey could get hold of. . . . : . "Very few people have a conception of how much the provinces, by the aid of the colony, have been exceeding the amounts they were justified in spending. The provinces have been year by year exceediug what they have been able to find ; aud year by year, by extraordinary grants, or provisions, or capitation allowances, the colony has had to supply the deficiency. In three or four months we shall have to take over the provinces. As Colonial Treasurer, 1 shall be very happy if there are not then any provincial overdrafts at the banks—(laughter)—if there are no outstanding liabilities—no heavy engagements to be fulfilled. Indeed, taking all the liabilities and engagements of the provinces to outside people, and to the colony for extraordinary assistance during the last two or three years, I shall be happy if the amemnt does not exceed half a million. (Hear, hear.) I know that in the case of one large province there was a credit balance of £200,000 at the commencement of 1876, the authorities of which anticipate being able, by the end of September next, not only to spend that amount, but to " over-run the constable" to tho amount of £150,000 in addition. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) In tho face of such evidence of the ambition of some provinces to spend money, is it not peculiarly our duty to put the financial position of the colony upon a more satisfactory footing, if we can possibly do so ? . ... Some propose separation of the two islands, and tho constitution of a single province in each. They see and admit that the provinces as they are cannot be preserved; and their desire is to have, if possible, something like them. I tell you, the Government will give an unqualified opposition to any and every proposal of the kind. (Loud cheers.) Now, a great deal has been said about the compact of ISSG. I go outside the compact altogether, and say I believe it is a convenient and desirable thing for every great diviBion of the country to have an interest in the landed revenue, and the principle o£ the compact of ISSG is one not undesirable, if we were perfectly free to re-consider it. That principle I understand to be to set apart the land revenue both in respect to where it arises and to tho objects to which it is to bo devoted. But what surprises me is that those who speak about it think it should only be maintained so long as they consider it desirable. They talk of putting all the land fund of the Middle Island into one common purse, but nothing could less represent their views of the compact. But the Government will consent to nethiug which does not give the residue of the laud fund for expenditure by the local bodies, and no proposal will be accepted which would make the land fund lose its special character. I believe it is the general feeling of the colony that the land .revenue should be specially applied. A great j deal has been said lately about tnis compact, , but I do not myself expect that so much i <will bo said upon the subject when Par- ! liament meets as has been predicted. ! My experience teaches me, and I think ! my friend Mr. Bryce will bear me out, that there are always during the recess, ! innumerable prophets foretelling what will ( take place when the Assembly meets, and , the subjects which will be chiefly dealt with, and that those are the very subjects which ! are generally most neglected during the session. ARRANGEMENTS FOE TILE FUTURE. I have as yet only spoken about the abolition of the provinces, and will now say something about the future. I recognise that ! !t has become the duty of the Government, which has been the means of asking the j colony to consent to the abolition of the pro- | vmces, to supply somethiug satisfactory in j their place— to supply a form of local government of a more inexpensive character. (Hear, ; hear.) We accept that responsibility, and I I undertake to say that we shall propose to ! Parliament a form of local government which ' will be more satisfactory, although it will ' not have those features of miniature parlia- ' ments and miniature responsible governments I •which characterise the present provincial ' system. lam happy also to say that, as we ■ approach the cubject more closely, the difficulties which surround it gradually disappear. I have stated, even a few weeks j ago, that the abolition of the provinces was j .not an unmixed good, but that it would be i attended with many difficulties— extra work to Parliament, aud embarrassments to Parliament, whieh we could not avoid—bat as we approach the work more closely, all the difficulties clear away, and my opinion in that respect has very much altered. I believe that we will establish a system which will not entail the disadvantages I have feared. You often observe, as you approach a large city, that when it comes first in view you see ouly s large number of buildings confusedly before you, you cannot trace the streets, even discern the direction in which the river runs, if there be one, but as you gradually get nearer and nearer, the plan develops itself, and becomes quite plain. It has been very much the same with me with respect to this local government question. Whilst I was convinced that we must find a substitute for the Provincial Governments when we dispensed with the provinces, it seemed to me that it would be very difficult to find that substitute; but the more wa applied ourselves to the work the clearer it has become ; and I now express the opinion that we shall give a very satisfactory form of local fjveming bodies, and not entail upon arliament many of the evils I feared. In fact, we shall so preserve the local character

of these bodies that instead of! ihcrensing thje' work of'Parliament"we'shall-rather diminish it.~You willnot expect me to-night to go into' the details of the plan, but rather to explain its broader principles. And first to speak of principles. We want to draw a broad distinc- - tion between the great public services in the provinces, which can be carried out just as well by the General Government as by the Provincial Governments, without in the slightest degree causing inconvenience,-"CO any one. JFor instance, the management of gaols and of the police, and such duties as the Provincial . Governments .perform with respect to harbours—l mean administrative duties, not those connected with harbour improvements —these and other things which go to make up the great part of the cost of Provincial Governments services, may as well be attended to by the General Government, and can be so attended to, not only without inconvenience to the inhabitants generally, but without the great mass of the people knowing that any change has been made. They are services which are no more of a local character than are those connected with the Post-office or the Telegraph department." We have from one end of the colony to the other postmasters who have been appointed by, and are under the control of the General and whose salaries are voted by the Assembly ; and we are able to carry on the postal services in a manner which, is, I believe, exceedingly satisfactory to the colony. The service I have mentioned, or indicated, can be performed by incorporating the Provincial with the General Government departments ; and a great deal of money may in that way be saved. There is no uecessity for having a department with adepartmental head in every service in every province. We are able to carry on the General Government services without many of them. I am not complaining of what has been done. While the provinces exist, each must have its distinctive staffs; but by incorporations, we believe that we can get rid of rmost of those distinctive features, and that we can save much money. Another principle the Government endorse, in arranging for the futnre is, that the institutions which are to take the place of the provinces must be free from the difficulties, and they are not theoretical merely, but have proved to be practical, which have sapped the foundations of provincial institutions. There must not be so much friction, or conflict, with tho new institutions, as there has been between the Provincial Government and the General Government. In short, instead of having ill-defined claims upon the General Government, as the provinces have had, and the consequent state of conflict between them, the new institutions must have functions so clearly defined that they can be constantly worked without conflict aud without friction. Last session, " when we brought down proposals for abolishing the provinces, we had no guarantee that the Assembly would agree to them; and, therefore, we had not even an excuse for anticipating taking possession, and preparing for it, as we are now to a great extent justified, in doing, by the simple fact that the law says, " On the day after the close of the next session of Parliament, the provinces shall come to an end." (Applause.) Last session all we could do was to submit a conjectural statement of the amount we supposed to be necessary for carrying on the provincial services, obtained from a study of provincial estimates and appropriations. We had no excus--- for going further, for all we kuew as a Government was, that we meant to submit to Parliament proposals for abolishing the provinces. Now, the Parliament haa said that the Superintendents shall discharge certain functions until the dose of the next session, and ;that then the General Government shall step in. We have determined, therefore, not to remain idle until the day for taking possession arrives—not to postpone action until the new Parliament meets, because the Government is always much occupied during a session—but to prepare for that work which the law tells us we must undertake on the day after the next session of the Assembly has been brought to a close.. The first step was to place ourselves in a position to tell Parliament what would be the cost of carrying on the ordinary services, not calculated upon surmises drawn from the late provincial estimates, but upon our own estimate of the staffs with which we could carry them on. In fact, we felt that we must bring- down next session estimates which would shew the strength of the staff we should need to carry on the work of the provinces which we had undertaken, and aa a necessary step in that direction, we had to determine how we could carry out those services. What we did was this—we went through all the provincial services, and discussed how far we could incorporate them into the ■ General Government services, and how far we shoald take them over temporarily until relinquished to local management. We went through the.services in that way, and I will tell you the results we arrived at. These steps are preparatory to our inviting from the Superintendents of the different provinces that cordial co-operation which it is to be presumed they will give in assisting as to decide what officers we shall continue in the service, and those with whom we should dispense. I will describe the principal decisions we have arrived at, and although I am going rather into details, those details will more clearly explain the views of the Government than if I spoke more generally. In the first instance, it became plain that there would be a number of executive departments in the various provinces, which after a time could be completely done away with, but whose unfinished work must be disposed of — departments having charge of papers, records, aud so forth. At any rate, something would have to be done with respect to the unfinished clerical work, and we determined that that part of the Provincial Government should be handed over to the Colonfal Secretary's department; and an estimate be made of the expenditure required, a very small one, I hope. Next came that very strong and very important service—the Police. Our first idea was to hand that service over to the Defence Department, because it must be obvious that it was mGst natural to incorporate the Police with the Armed Constabulary, but a consideration of the matter shewed that to hand over the ordinary police of the different provinces to the Defence Department would cause great dissatisfaction, and not without justice. Some of these police forces are of very old standing—much older than the Armed Constabulary. I can myself speak of one force—that of Otago — which is most efficient, and deserves every consideration ; and we feel that if we handed the police over at once to the Defence Department they might entertain the feeling that they would not receive fair treatment at the hands of that department, inasmuch as it would not unnaturally favour its own force, the Armed Constabulary, whilst a true recognition of their services would not be given to the others. It seemed, therefore, to us better to hand over the police to another Minister, and let it be a subject for consideration between the two Ministers from time to time, how reductions should be made aud incorporations effected. We propose, then, that the police forces of the province, instead of becoming part ef the Defence Department, should be placed under the Minister of Justice. It is also proposed to hand over the gaols and district gaols to the Minister of Justice. The Crown lands, surveys, goldfields, and Sheep Inspectors, in thefirst instance, will be placed ander theSeeretary for Crown Lands. It must not be supposed, however, that we consider it right to interfere with the local administration of the laud, or to propose suddenly anygreat changes. We do not desire to make rapid or ill-con-sidered changes, but it is necessary that every department should have a recognised head when the provincial heads are abolished. With respect to the goldfields—a question I am not prepared to go into thoroughly to-night—l will only say, that we do not recognise that miners constitute a distinct class, and that mining districts are

. entitled to the" distinctive treatment which" ! many goldfields' members" advecate, but We ■ do" recognise "that~mining-districts -are- as much entitled to local control in determining what is necessary for their local interests, as-agricultui-alTor- rural .'districts are. •' ;I /hope thafCwe shall be able to--d'evise a system which will .give the mining districts much larger local control than they have yet had*; and I believe that by such a system we shall do more te obviate dissatisfaction than can be done By" any' system based upon the theory that the miners are different beings from the rest of the community. The Government are sensible, whilst they desire not unduly to interfere with local administration of the land, that something must be done to increase the' facilities for obtaining land for settlement. .(Cheers.) There are a great many young men throughont the colony who mnst be enabled to possess themselves of land upon which to settle if they so desire ; and the Government have the belief that less is to be done in that way by any artificial system of special settlement than by offering facilities to all who "desire te obtain land and settle upon it. (Applause.) Upon one point the Government have a very-strong-opinion, and that is, that those who want land shou'd pay for it? but that it should be offered on easy terms of payment, just as a large purchaser going into the private market would be able to obtain easy terms .for his payments. (Applause.) . . . Railways and public works in the provinces,including some branch railways, and many works of different kinds, must obviously be devolved upon the department of the Minister of Public Works. But the Government will bear in mind that not a few of those will only be temporarily iu charge of the Colonial Department, because they are of a character which makes them fairly belong to the proposed local bodies. Therefore, it is not intended to make any sudden or great change in the management of these works, not to temporarily transfer the charge to Wellington, but, as far as possible, to continue under local management all works which will be handed over to any of the proposed local bodies. We desire to foresee, and, in every way that is in our power, to avoid, inconvenience to any section of the people ; though, of course,. a great change, like that resolved upon last session, cannot be made in a day without some wrench to existing arrangements: We intend to continue for some time local arrangements for making payments on account of such works as I have indicated ; we recognise that the contractors for, such works would naturally feel agrieved if, because of a political change, they should be compelled to send vouchers to Wellington, and l'e kept longer out of their money than they were entitled to calculate upon when they entered into the contracts. Local treasury arrangements will, then, be maintained to the extent necessary to prevent public inconvenience. (Applause.) Naturally, the harbour departments will be placed under the Customs. And here I may explain that I am not now speaking of harbour improvements, but of those duties which the colony must carefully keep in its own hands, not those duties which I have already told you the Government are of opinion should be carried on by local bodies and by means of local trust 3. Similar remarks may be made as to the ultimate local control to be exercised over education ; but in the meantime, the Provincial Education Departments must find their head in some department of the General Government. It is proposed that they should be handed over to the Minister of Justice. Hospitals, asylums, and charitable institutions, will be placed under the Colonial Secretary. We propose that these institutions shall be .locally managed, and it will bo oar duty to make proposals in that direction, so that the Government of the colony may be relieved of their charge. They will be under local management, with such assistance from the General Government as the Parliament shall decide should be given to them. In the case of education, about which I shall have a few words to say presently, I may now add that it-is a matter in regard to which, although locally managed, it will be the duty of the Government to see that the public money is properly expended, and they will, therefore, propose to place it under proper inspection and.control. The sameisthe case with charitable institutions, which we must see are properly managed. I do not think I need detain you longer with details as to tho management of affairs when the provinces are abolished. I may add, however, that having come to these conclusions, we are about to send three of the ablest civil servants round to all the provinces, with a view to enabling them to prepare estimates, so that we may, as -I have said, form a conception of what amount of expenditure we may save in taking over these departments. These gentlemen will carry letters of introduction to the various Superintendents, who will be asked to assist them. It is quite true that we might refer them to the Provincial Auditors, who aro officers of the Government, but we think it better to refer them to the Superintendents, and ask those gentlemen to give them all the assistance in their power, and place them in the position of affording the General Government such information as will enable them to place before Parliament estimates of the cost of carrying on the provincial services. 1 trust that the Superintendents will aid us in making these estimates. We recognise to the fullest extent, that the functions of the Superintendents continue, and will continue to the end of next session; and no doubt they will reeognise that we shall have a great and important duty to carry ou* when theirs shall cease, and will, therefore, consider it their duty to assist us in preparing to take over their functions. There is one point which I approach with dread, because I know how popular is the notion that the members of the Civil service are two well treated, and that. Governments are alivays too kind to them. But the matter now involved cannot be lightly or hastily dealt with. We believe that by the incorporation of Provincial with General Government services a large amount of money may be saved, through dispensing with a very considerable number of provincial officers. But we knew that if there is not at the command of the Government means of liberally compensating officers whose appointments are taken away, that whatever may be the theory, the reductions made will not be anything like those which would be otherwise made. . . . The provision made by the Act of last session, for compensating officers whose services it may be considered desirable to dispense with, is not sufficient. Without a more liberal provision, possible reductions will not be half effected ; and surely it is better, when so much will be saved yearly, to enable the Government to do fearlessly, because they can do fairly, what they think necessary, than to pretend not to be aware that the inevitable result of an inadequate scale of compensentations, will be to continue expenditure at a rate which is really not necessary. (Applause.) The Government will make proposals to the House for more liberal compensation than is possible under the Act of last session ; but ■whether we shall propose that that compensensation shall be in land for settlement, or in money, I am not prepared .to say. But we are convinced that such a plan will save a great deal of money in the end; and that, without it, retrenchment, which might be made, will not be made. (Applause.) COUNTY SYSTEM. I will now say a few words about the system of counties—for that is what we propose to call them—which we intend to submit to Parliament next session. You are doubtless aware that, whilst there was a unanimous feeling last session in favour of abolishing the provinces, still there was a feeling that the General Government should not absorb all the power; that the central power should not be increased, but rather diminished, and that there should be some extended and real system of local government. That was the view which influenced many persona in voting for the abolition of the provinces. There were

many the new local?: goyernmentTEhould take ; but it w*s agreed' on all hands that-it was-de-sirable that the expenditure on works of k local character, outjof the .j:esidt(e"Vqf7the land revenue, should be handed over to local bodies without separate_Parliamentary votei T&eBill which the'' Government , introduced last session was modelled on Acts in force in some of the neighbouring colonies, by which, shires are created. out of, road boards, on something of the Darwinian principle of the survival of the most fit. That Bill did not find favour, and is, no doubt, open to the charge that these changes are not, as a rule, made without great opposition and conflict between the various ■ bodies concerned. We , now - propose -a system. by which; counties would be entirely distinct from road districts. In' fact, neither will . have control over the other. "We propose to keep them quite distinct, each having its own,duties, and each having its own revenue ; and while they will be able to come tp anj' agreement amongst themselves as to any general works, it will not be necessary for them to do so, or enter into opposition or conflict with each other. The general idea is this : First of all, we consider that the present provincial boundaries are too large, and are not suitable for the future divisions of the country. We propose that the whole country shall be divided into jcounties, and these divisions shall be made after due consideration. . I' am ,-not prepared to ;Say at present whether the Government will do this or invite the House to do it, or appoint a Commission to do it. It is enough to say that the Government propose that; the country shall be divided into counties, and that the boundaries of those counties shall be subject to alteration if found desirable. We propose that, in the first instance, the Government, or Parliament, or probably the Governor, shall arbitrarily, if you like so to call it, make in each county not more than seven divisions, but less if it should be thought to be desirable; that these divisions shall return each at least one member to the County Board, the members to be not more than seven ; and that the Board so constituted shall have the power to re-consider the question of divisions and ofrepresentation, and to increase the number of members, subject to the limit, which, I ( think, we should set, that no Board should consist of more than nine members. We, propose that the Board first elected shall' exist for twelve months only; and that thereshall then be a fresh election, subject to any permitted modifications which the first Board may have made. We think that the Boards so elected should exist for three years, and that, instead of the. system which is adopted in connection with most municipal bodies, of some members retiring and tho j vacancies being filled by elections each year, j all the members should continue in office I for three years, and the whole of the members be re-elected at the same time. The County Chairman, we incline to think, should be elected by the whole constituency of each county. It is quite possible it may be found necessary that the Chairman should bo a paid officer, in which case he would be paid out of the county revenue; but in order to prevent County Boards becoming in any sense political bodies, or the creation of any of those difficulties which have been encountored under the provincial system, we are of opinion it is desirable that no County Chairman should be eligible to sit in Parliament. (Applause.) We propose that the County Boards shall have charge of the main roads of the country ; that it shall be their duty to maintain those roads, and tp construct other large works which may be for the benefit of the districts they comprise. The duties of County Boards willbequite distinct fromthoseof Koad Boards —they will be confined to the constructionand maintenance of arterial works within their own districts, which will each represent a large division of the colony. The Boards should have means at tnier disposal. You are aware, probably, that by the Act of last session, Parliament decided that there should be a : contribution of £1 from the consolidated revenue for each £1 raised by local taxation not exceeding Is in the £, and that there should be an equal amount contributed out of the land revenue. The Act provided that this contribution of £2 for £1 should be paid to Koad Boards ; but by a subsequent clause it was provided that in case of shires being formed, the whole amount should be paid over to them. A like provision was made as to license fees. But what we intend to propose is, that thesubsidies from the Consolidated Revenue and the Land Revenue shall be equally divided between Road Districts nd County Boards, and that the license fees shall go wholly to County Boards. The County Boards to have the tolls on main roads, and also to have power to levy special rates for specified works, provided that the works and the amount of the rate be first approved of by a properly convened meeting of ratepayers. (Applause.) So that, while we shall propose to give the County Boards very large powers, we shall also provide that the constituents of these Boards shall be able clearly to express their wishes, and to take care that those wishes are carried into effect. (Applause.) I have spoken of "constituents," and you will naturally ask, " Who are they to be ?" Our proposal will be that the electors for a county shall be all those persons who qualify themselves by payment of rates. The electors within road districts would be the electors in counties. It may be possible, but I do not think it will be at all general, that in some parts of the colony it will be considered desirable to have a county, but not to have Road Boards, aud in any such case the subsidies which I have mentioned would go wholly .to the County Boards. The electors in Road Districts will be electors in counties, but the County Board will be entirely independent of Road Boards, and the latter, out of their own revenues, will carry on their functions as they have been in the habit of doing. We consider it desirable not to mix up legislation with respect to the two bodies, and therefore, while we propose to deal with counties next session, I am not prepared to say we will deal with the other bodies, except so far as to enable existing Road Boards to continue their functions, if any legislation should be found to be necessary for that purpose. There is another matter which it is important to mention, which I hope will find favour in your eyes, and in the eyes of the country. We do not propose to include any borough in any county. We think tho borough should be as distinct as any county or road district. The counties will not therefore find themselves swamped, as in the past, by the numerical voting power of the towns. The counties and the towns will have independent existences, and yet whenever it is necessary to come to auy general arrangement, it will be quite possible for the county, the borough, and the road district to co-operate and arrive at a mutual agreement. .Nor do we lose sight of the necessity to keep down the expenditure of counties. If the counties are willing to forego expensive staffs,' the General Governmeut will assist them as much as possible. We will, I believe, make provision by which, by agreement with a county, the Public Works Department would carry out or maintain for the county any work agreed upon. That would be a voluntary agreement between the county on the one side and the Public Works Department on the other. We also propose fhat counties should have power to borrow on the revenue raised by special rates, and on general property and tolls, but not upon subsidies. We propose to keep those revenues so distinct that in future the colony shall not be liable for the indebtedness of any county. I cannot sufficiently express my opinion of how important is that provision. For a long time it has been impossible to allow the provinces to borrow because it was impossible to get out of the position that if the provinces borrowed, the colony was liable for the debt. That is not the,case, and must not be the case with the new'counties. They mnst borrow upon the means which they possess,

- andwith the 6onsentlin"d-approbati6ybFthe ratepayers;. the money;they:expend mnst be obtained-upon.their._own_security, and not upon the security of thecplony. The colony ■will have enough to do to borrow for its own works. It has still: a very great work t(> perform, for it has the grand system of trunk railways" to carry ■ out, which we have sp vigorously commenced. We do not want our railways to finish at thirty miles north of Christchurch, and forty miles out of Nelsoni or that there should bo no railways in West land; and we do not want that the railway from Wanganui should close in one direction at Rangitikei, and in the other at Waiotaral We/want that' the provinces in. this island should have inter-communication with each other, and so with the provinces of the other island. We must bear that in mindj and we mnst remember that our own responsibilities .will require to be carefully attended to. It will be our duty to do with a3 ; little borrowed money as possible until our railways give evidence—which T mnst say they are beginning to do in a remarkable manner—that they can pay a considerable portion of the interest on the money out of which they have been constructed. (Cheers.) If this new system fulfil our expectations, it will be a system which will give to the country the most complete local government system it is. possible to conceive. We shall have a variety of local bodies throughout the country which, possessing special and peculiar functions, will save Parliament much responsibility and care. They will relieve Parliament of many of those duties upon which members have looked with great dread, because they are called upon to deal with matters with which very few are acquainted. We shall have separate Borough, Ttoad, District, and County Government, and each body, it is presumed, will carry out its func- : tions without coming into contact with the others. We shall arrive at this result without renewing the Provincial form of Government, Care will be taken to prevent any' heavy staff expenditure, but you will have a much better system of local control than anything you could possibly name in the past. I am notgoing further into the land question this evening, although it is a matter.about which a great deal might be said ; but I have already occupied much of your time. \. > ,•' ' ' EDUCATION. I will now say a few words upon the question of education. 1. cannot give you any absolute pledge upon the subject,; but tkeview of the Government is; that ic is desirable to abolish the special education rate ;whic-h. now 'exists in some parts- of the colony. (Applausei) It is also our view, .that whilst there should be a general control over education throughout the county, there ;shouldbe a muchlargerainountof local control than now exists in. some parts ; that there should be large school-committees, amenable to . school boards somewhere ; and that, generally, the management should be much more local than it now is. I believe that, in-, addressing .this meeting, I am. speaking, to those who' have peculiar opportunities for judging of the disadvantages of the want" of local control over local schools. _ (Applause.) On the other hand, we do not desire to destroy or upset ■ the present features of the educational systems to be found in different parts of the colony. As to the action to be taken on this subject next session, some Bill we must introduce, but whether it will be a complete-measure of consolidation I .cannot say. Our desire will be to abolish special rates, and to secure local control and management ; and it will be not only our. desire, but pur paramount duty, to endeavour to secure, that an educational system should be thoroughly carried out from .one end of the colony to the other. We shall seek to in-" sist that, whilst we give local control, there shall not anywhere be local neglect ; for we are not williug to JiUow that in any part of New Zealand, an"uneducated population shall grow up. (Applause.) IMMIGRATION AND RAILWAYS. Allow me to add to what I have said with regard to railways and immigration, that we recognise immigration as a subject of the greatest possible importance, and that it must receive the utmost consideration. We must continue to introduce immigrants as they are required, but we must take care that we do not bring in more than are required. In every part of the colony, there must bo the most jealous watchfulness as to both thoso points ; and with the facilities we'now have for almost instantaneous communication with Great Britain, I think we should not have difficulty in getting all the fresh population; we require without the risk of over-iinmigration into any- part. It is an essential portion of tho policy of the Government to coni tiuue immigration in such a manner, and to such an extent as may appear desirable ; and we regard the question as one not for counties, or boroughs, or districts of any kind, but as a colonial question. (Applause.) We are not going to abandon our railway policy. We look upon it as our duty—proceeding more slowly, it may be, than hitherto —to continue the construction of a trunk system through each island. (Applause.) We will not bo content with fragments of lines; we will complete a thorough trunk system if the country will support us in doing so. Some provinces may conceivably say, " We have the railways we want, aud we do not care about the construction of more elsewhere." But I do not think that will be generally said or felt. I have not found evidence of-any such selfishne3s, and the more we recede from the provincial system, the more will mere boundaries cease to have force in men's minds, and the more will we find a readiness to look upon questions as affecting New Zealand.as a whole, instead of as interesting only to parts of it. .EXISTING PROVINCES AND COUNTY BOUNDARIES. Of course, when one is speaking under a sense of great responsibility, and having to go into many details, one is liable to overlook remarks he intends to make, and I find that I have omitted to mention a most important matter, namely, that we do not consider that it will be either desirable or necessary that the counties should be coterminous with the provincial boundaries. Whilst in some cases, the whole of a county may be in an existing province, we also Bee that, in other cases, counties should extend over each side of the boundaries of a province. That raises a very embarrassing question, or rather a question which seems embarrassing, that is, " How are you going to divide the residue of the land revenue ?— if the of the laud revenue is to be divided, and the county oversteps the boundary of the province, how are you to apportion the residues of the two .provinces ?" We have thought that matter out. In the first instance, on what principle would you divide the residue ? If on the basis of population, then you give the more settled' and wealthier districts the lion's share, and leave the less peopled districts at a disadvantage. We think that would not be right, and we propose to divide the residue, and make half payable to the counties on the basis of population, and the other half on the basis of area. This will give recognition both to area and population, and will do away with the difficulty. It will be easy, under such a system, to say, " Here is a country with so many thousands of acres in province A, and so many thousand acres in provinc3 B, and also so many hundred inhabitants in province A, and so many in province B. Then the share of the residue of the land revenue which the county will receive for area will be : From province A, as the proportion of its area in that province is to the whole area of the province, so will be its propertion to the half of the whole residue. Similarly will the area proportio» in provinces be decided, and by like rules of proportion will the population share in each province be ascertained. This is a matter I should have referred to before. I trust you will forgive me for having put it rather out of its place. , PROVINCIAL CHARGES FOR RAILWAY INTEREST. .There is another point, and a very important one, to which I must refer. Wβ have found that the present system, by

*^Tv!ricli'*tHr > "' J TftT>TiTicpff •'~^:irh ; "yfvntiTiTPT > **»"^ r * i responsible £orjdefioicnojr s o( interest on tlio -.cost of the the railways ; vrithin its boundaries is very unsatisfactory, to keep a separate system of-ac- ' counts and separate management 'i province, in order to,tell-ho\v much is to be , charged against" each , ." This involves so ■; much .difficulty that we propose to aak-Par-i liament next session to authorise the Colonial j Government to-take over the control ard I management,' and liabilities of all the railTrays in the, country.. (Applause.) I may say; apart from the financial aspect of the question which has to be dealt .with, but, which I do ; not propose to enter upon norc-, this is ! one of the most important matters ye j have to deal with. In fact, the Minister for Public Works has put it in the strongest manner, and says, " If I am to be asked to continue to manage, the railways jas they are now, I cannot do it." If we Vant'to take a railway from one province into another we have i'i >;eep separateaccounts in each. -In afesr days the railway from Canterbury to Otugo will run across the Waitaki, and we shall have to keep'two separate acceunts of expenditure and receipt. It must be remembered, with respect to the provinces being responsible for the railways in future, that whilst we can keep some accounts between the provinces and the colony now, because they are distinct, these accounts will be almost imaginary when the provinces cease to exist, and the debts from one to the other will have a very uureal character. It would be as if Brown and Jones, beiug in partnership, Ishould suddenly call thein : selves Brown and Co. and Jones and Co., and should proceed to draw on each other and keep accounts of the transactions. I hope that in future we shall have such a system of finance that we shall uot find the provinces with deficiencies which the colony has to make up, for the provinces, when they cease to exist, can hardly be said to owe us money. However, I do not wish to enter into the financial question to-night. Mr. West asked if the Government intended to introduce. an Education Bill next session, if so, whether it would be founded on a system of secular' education or otherwise. Sir Jr/Lius Vogel repeated part of the explanation already-given, and added that no measure on the subject would-be introduced by the present Government which would not be of, a thoroughly secular nature. (Loud applause.) Mr. Waters asked if it was the iutention of the' Government to propose additional taxation during next session. Sirjuur/s Vogel replied, that if the Government had made up its mind on the subject there would be no objection to stating what, the conclusion come to, was; but.he could give his assurance that the Government had come to no conclusion upon the subject. He, might say that they did not go with those' theorists* who contended that whether or not extra taxation was desirable, a property tax and income tax would be acI ceptable. Those taxes could no doubt be very well paid by .the country, butVould be a very great nuisance, and be exceedingly unpopular. He was of opinion that the Government should not propose such taxation unless it was absolutely necessary. It must be recollected also, that as the railways became more- completed, they would give larger returns.; The railways already constructed were now paying; and it was a great result, that' over and above their working expenses, they were recouping about half the interest on whatthe.colony hadborrowed for their construction. (Applause.) The lines were at present merely fragmentary, and it was right to look for greater results when they were completed and ran from end to end of each island. If the colony could tide over without. additional taxation for a time, he thought it might get-on. without it altogether. He would,much rather that Nevr Zealand should be' looked upon as a colony without a property or an income tax, than that it should follow the example of Victoria. He hoped the Government would be able to avoid such a course ; they would endeavour to avoid it, and he believed they would succeed in doing so. . (Loud applause.) , .