PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XII, Issue 4295, 19 August 1875, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

DOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

[FBOM our. SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT.] Government Buildings, Wellington, Wednesday, 8 p.m. Mr. Rod's speech this afternoon was a very able one, and wound up with a powerful appeal to the Upper House to use its legitimate function of standing between that House and the results of hasty legislation. Mr. Cuthbertson, who has made several ineffectual efforts to get a word in, will, by arrangement, now follow Mr. Cracroft Wilson. Mr. Stafford will speak to-morrow evening, and Mr. Fitzherbert will follow. The debate will not end this week. The Opposition are not likely to divide against the second reading. Mr. Wakefield has been in a disgusting state for the last week or so, and to-day the Sergent-at-Arms, by the Speaker's direction, had to remove him from the House. Considerable interest is felt here in I 1 e Caversham election. The Post says the Government are using every effort here and in Dunedin to prevent Mr. Stout's return, and that as soon as he was spoken of they telegraphed to Fulton and others to come forward before they induced Mr. Larnach to do so. It hopes the electors will prove themselves superior to Ministerial influence. Inglis has received a telegram from a public meeting at Kaikoura, requesting him to vote against the third reading of the Abolition Bill, as his constituents think the question should be relegated to the country.

[PItES AGENCY.] Wellington, Wednesday. THE ABOLITION DEBATE. Last evening, at 7.30, the Abolition debate was resumed. Mr. KOLLESTON said he rose to 6peak with a greater sense of responsibility than he'ever did. He had always, in speaking in that House, endeavoured to do so from a colonial point of view—always disassociating his position as Superintendent from that of a member of that House. He hoped that any shortcoming or weakness in his argument would not be considered as affecting the merits of the case dealt with. As to its merits he had no doubts. He could appeal to what had bueu done under Provincial Institutions, both before and since he had taken his part in them. He could look to the public works, education, and many social benefits which resulted from Local Government. What was the reason for this bill ? Had a single good one been given ? Were the people dissatisfied ?—they were not. The many years they had rested content under it was proof of that. If there was agitation now, it was only the normal indication of a healthy life, and was, therefore, rather a satisfactory sign than otherwise. They were told by the Native Minister that it was time to put an end to that constant spirit of antagonism going on between the General and Provincial Government ; but was not that a sign of wholesome activity aud attention to the political interests by the people ? Ho did not wonder at such a doctrine being laid down by that lion, membir, in whose hands rested the sole control of the remnant of a dying race. The question should not be dealt with for any mere pecuniary consideration ; it rested upon much higher grounds. In approaching so momentous a subject, so suddenly as was done in this bill, the Government forgot that the organisation of government and society were like those of nature—continuous and progressive. This bill was opposed to all true principles of constitutional government. He was, however, satisfied that we could not remain as we are. Circumstances had arisen which. necessitated great changes. He did not mean constitutional changcs, but changes in the course the country had entered upon. The financial position of tho country required all their attention. The colony had arrived at a position when the Customs revenue would have to pay little more than interest upon borrowed money. Every family in the country contributed from 20s to 30a per head. (No, no, from the Government.) Evidently this bill proceeded from our financial necessities ; but Government should have said so, and told the House plainly the question might then have been dealt with in a much better manner. The Government had mistaken the full value of Local Government, in thinking they could control the affairs of the country from a centre. They might have known that was opposed to the idea of simplification of government. He would point to the examples of Canada and the Unitid States, tha Governments of which found themselves in a mess financially, and they decided to cut the gordian knot. They should rather have endeavoured to find some means of making the too co-ordinate Governments work harmoniously. "While exorcising a wholesome restraint they should, at the same time, have aided the Provincial Governments in carrying out tho march of progression. He maintained that the election of Superintendents and Provincial Governments were an essential of popular Government. There was no doubt Provincialism was much overgrown and wanted simplification ; but the bill would not

do that. Such a chango would naturally como with time. If it did not, evils of far greater magnitude than anything now threatening them would overtake them. If Provincialism had failed in carrying out properly the functions entrusted to it, the fault lay B&lely with the General Government. Ho need only refer the House to our surveys and our gaols. Tho whole administration of the General Government for years past had not been such as to commend itself to the people. He would repeat he was in favour of some simplification of the government. He considered that tho colony should be divided into shires ; these shires to be co-terminous with the electoral districts of the colony, and to possess local organisation, and to have largo power of government and taxation. But he saw nothing of that in this bill. He wished to see the whole question dealt with from a broader point of view than was tho case. He maintained that nothing had ever been done to secure the most efficient operation of Provincial Governments. There should have been a fair representation of the provinces in the Upper House. He saw great need for reform in our system of taxation. One of the iirst things to be done should be to charge upon the Customs revenue our gaols, asylums, and charitable institutions. Then there was the question of taxing property, and it must present itself. The taxation on the necessaries of life should be reduced, because there was every prospect of taxation being increased throughout tho country ; but these questions were shirked by the Government. While Government pretend to localise the land fund, they did nothing of tho sort. The real theory of the land fund was to devote the proceeds of it to the laud itself, quite irrespective of any reference to the compact, whether unjust or not. He could make nothing of tho bill but chaos. He was confident, if the bill passed, its first effect would be the raising of a cry for separation in both Islands. (Hear, hear, and No, no.) lie thought, moreover, that the introduction of the bill was inopportune. There never was a time when we were greater slaves to the Native difficulty than at present. It was inopportune for another reason. The House and the Ministry were never in a moro disorganised state than now. What is tho position of tho Ministry ? Is there a guiding mind amongst them ? Was it not well known that the member for Tiinaru pulled the strings of the Ministry, but who pulled the strings of tho member for Timarn ? In many things, the administration of the General Government was most unsatisfactory, eminently so in the matter of confiscated lands. He did not hesitate to say that, if this bill passed, the land fund would become common property, and that the land throughout the colony would be sold at a uniform price per acre. Then there was another provision in tho bill, against which too much could not be said, and that was that the requirements of such provinces not having land funds should be supplemented by Treasury Bills. The leader of tho Government had said the people throughout tho colony were crying out for a change, but surely the best test of the mind of the people was their voting power, but that test was not taken. The Treasurer told them their credit would be cnhauced by that measure, but he held that the measure would do anything but redound to our credit or strengthen it,—anyway, not far from it. For no sooner would -this bill be -passed than tho cry of separation would be raised. They had been told tho measure was a national one, but how could a measure taking away part of their Constitution be called a national measure ? He wished to hear more of the people and less of provinces, and he felt before that bill passed that session they would hear a great deal more of the people. Nothing wa3 more apparent during the past few years than that. Vital questions had been ignored, but he believed from tliig Act that the time was coming when the people would turn their attention more and more to these vital questions and questions of administration. While believing in the sincerity of Government regarding the measure, he hoped it would not pass, and would oppose it to the last.

Mr. BONVIJN said the hon. member who had just sat down admitted there was nothing new in the proposal to change the Constititution, but went on to say he wished Government had stated that it was brought down because of tinauuial difficulties. If that had been the truth, the Government would have said so now, but fortunately there were now financial difficulties to trouble the country. There had not yet been a Colonial Treasurer on the Government benches who had not protested against the difficulty experienced in protecting the Government chest from an organised raid made upon it by the prorinces. Ten years ago the member for the Hutt found it necessary to charge £125,000 to the loan account, having had to proride that sum for the requirements of the provinces, and that was when loans were not raised for reproductive works. Two years subsequently the same gentleman had to provide another £1 53,000 in order to make their overdrafts disappear, to use his own words. Hall, another Colonial Treasurer, had the same complaint to make, and raid it was utterly impossible to guard against such organised bands, who year after year demanded—" Your money or your life." Every Colonial Treasurer made the same complaint. There was no wonder the late Colonial Treasurer, having to contend with the same pressure, decided to get rid of those institutions, which, if not swept away, would launch the country into linaneial disaster. It was admitted on all hands there must be a change in the Constitutions of the colony, which it would also be admitted had assumed a shape it was never intended it Bhould take when the Constitution was lirst promulgated. Though at one time suited to the requirements of the country, the Constitution was uot now applicable. Dealing with the cry of taking away tho liberties of the people, the hon. gentleman said the cry always came from Superintendents, who, like so many C.taara, wished to ignore the representatives of the people. I'hey had seen already tho Provincial Council, who professed to be the representatives of the people, pass a resolution on one day and rescind it two or three days after, at the bidding of the Superintendent. They had heard of the Provincial Treasurer telling the Provincial Council that anything which did not meet with the approval of the Superintendent should be rescinded. Could that be called representative Government ? Thoy had been asked to stop their work until legal opinion could bo obtained from home, because doubt was imported into the question as to whether they had the legal power; but it was strange they had never produced the opinion of that constitutional authority who said they were acting illegally. He hoped the opinion would be produced, because it might be shewn that an opinion from higher authorities yet to bo obtained might confirm those given by the law officers of the colony. But even supposing there was a slight doubt as to the meaning of that Act which was said to have been passed after midnight, that was no reason w-hy the Government should not proceed. If what they were about to do was for tho good of the colony, the bill might be sent home if consent were refused here, and he was sure Her Majesty would not be advised to veto that Act. They had gone altogether beyond the Provincial Governments, and required to bo united by a law which would cause the colony to bo easily governed by one Government and one Parliament. It was more easy now to govern New Zealand with one Government than in the time of our grandfathers for one Government to govern England. It was physically easier to do so, and there could be no reason why this colony should be governed in manner an exception to that prevailing in any other part of Her Majesty's dominions. He could not understand how lion, gentlemen could come to the conclusion that the Provincial form of Government should be retained in New Zealand, if not necessary in any other colony or country in the world. They had como to a time when there must be a change, though it was not a necessary presumption that this changc was a reproach upon tuoso who had been administrators of a system which had hitherto ex-

isted ; but even supposing tho provinces had been aucessfnlly administered, that was no reason that they must therefore exist for ever. If that were fair reasoning, in the same manner, then, seeing that at the existence of the heptarchy, some of the qualities of the English race were brought out, tho heptarchy should also remain. L-st year resolutions T7ere passed, instructing Government to prepare measures for the abolition of provinces in the Northern Islyid ; but since that time the cry came from ouo. end of New Zealand to the other, that Southern as well as Northern provinces must be abolished. In came first from tho North ; then from the South. The Superintendent of Otago said, " All or none." The Superintendent of Canterbury also said, "All or none." Therefore there was no alternative for the Government but to bring in a measure for abolishing all. But if this cry had not come, the abolition of the whole must have been decided upon; because when they looked into the matter, it appeared neither just or fair in a financial, or in an administrative point of view, to make any difference between one or the other. Objection had been taken to the term "Provincial Districts." But it had been ncces»ary to use that term. There was a mass of regulations which had grown up in different provinces, which extended no further than the boundaries of tho-e provinces, and it would have been impossible for them to meddle with those laws during the present session, or to prevent confusion. They had decided to leave the districts as at present constituted, so as to render the laws valid. Another matter was the waste land reveuue complications, with which, to prevent injustice, they had not meddled. The next point was very much reprehended—the delegation of power to Superintendents. The Government did not wish to take the responsibility on themselves, but felt it necessary they should have the power of retaining in office those at present in charge of tho principal departments of Provincial Governments, just as a man taking over a new business required the assistance of those who had been employed in the establishment previously. With reference to the assertion that the Government could not carry out their promises to the country districts, he said the Government would be able to do all they promised. Tho Road Boards need not be jealous of Municipalities. In addition to the amount guranteed, tho country districts I would also have a fair share of expenditure on public works. The goldfields revenue was given solely to goldfields. Allusion had been made to the fact that the capitation allowance |had been reduced. It was well to remember that at the sanio time a large number of charges had been taken over from the Provincial to General Governments. Respecting the provisions for the issue of debentures to assist districts at times when revenues were short, he defended the system, saying it was not intended to add to the debt, but merely to equalise the reveuue, the deficiency of one year being made up by the overplus of another year. This would be better than allowing a district to starve one year while it had a plethora another. He then proceeded to speak in glowing terms of the advantages which must arise from abolition, for, though a" administration would be local, yet evciything would be done on a fixed system.[Surveys, gaols, education, and police would be administered on a general system, and none would deny that that would be better than piecemeal administrations, owing to which cliildren of one district were educated while those of another district, for want of funds, were neglected; and criminals, instead of being brought to justice, were merely hunted from one province to another. It had been said the Government ought to go to the country. If the Government hail merely consulted their own feelings, they would have gone to the country, but they felt that they had a duty to perform. They believed the change to be absolutely necessary, for if the couiiry had to experience more scrambling, it wou'd involve utter ruin, therefore they had not shirked their responsibility, and would take their positions on the bill. They were satisfied there was no time to be lost, ami they trusted Parliament v ould settle the matter at ouce. The Parliament had now a good opportunity to distinguish itself. Its predecessor had made itself famous by inaugurating the public works policy, and if the present Parliament did its duty by deciding on abolition, it would earn gratitude for generations to come. There were two cou.scs opeu to the Government. They must either carry oui the expressed niali of he House, or else retire into obscurity, covered with the ignominy which was the lit punishment for cowardice. (Loud cheering.) Mr. MURRAY opposed the bill, and in the course of his remarks brought a great many accusations against the Government. After a short adjournment, Mr. BALLANCE rose amidst loud applause. The hon. gentleman delivered a long and able speech in defence of the Abolition Bill, combatting many of the strong points of previous speakers. Those who admitted the necessity of the change, he recommended them to consider how far the Government proposals provided in substance those local powers which so many stickled for. If it were true that the Provincial Government of Otago had only 500,0 )0 acres left to dispose of, did not that prove that the colonising functions of that Government were comiug rapidly to an end ? Ho could easily understand why Mr. Stafford and the Government agreed : that they recognised the fact that the agreement on certain great and fundamental principles should produco a concord which was not to be destroyed by mere personal differences. He had listened carefully to Sir George Grey, with the consciousness that the speech of that gentleman might induce him to change his views, but ho had found no cause whatever to do this. He would ask Sir Gcorgo Grey, as the framer of Provincial Institutions, what use did those institutions subserve. He had seen the statistics quoted by Mr. Bunny in the Wairarapa, but he could not Bay that those statistics were disingenuous ; but he would point out that Mr. Bunny had not allowed for tolls collected in that district, and absolutely counted on assistance from the Provincial Government, and the grants to Road Boards made by the House of Representatives. Upon the objection that abolition interfered with tho liberties of the people, the hon. gentleman quoted from Hallam, Creasy, and Do Tocqueville, to prove tho opposite. It appeared to him that Provincialism did not possess that liberty which would bo destroyed by abolition. It was the House of Representatives which was the seat of liberty, and not Provincial Councils, because they had to go to the Government for the ratification of any of their Acts. The hon. gentleman again quoted De Tocqueville, and said that although such a great admirer of American institutions, he did not consider the United States Government represented the liberty of the people. As an instance of the liberty they were asked to censure, ho could refer them to the act of the Wellington Superintendent, who sent the Council about their business whilo they wero discussing a question which His Honor considered inconvenient. He also referred to the action of Sir George himself, when Governor of the colony in 1851, when he wanted tho General Executive of tho colony to vest in himuelf, and that he should liavo sole appropriation of tho land revenuo. Yet this was the gentleman who was so loud in defence of the rights of the people. The danger to be guarded against was undue centralisation ; but ho cousiderad that under a constitutional Government such a result was impossible, because tho tendency of Government was to decentralise as much as possible by delegating to the local Boards and subordinate bodies. The hon. gentleman, iu order to shew the weakness of American institutions, so much praised by the hon. members for Avon and Auckland City West, he instanced cases of bribery in which only four members of the House of Representatives voted for a measure without boing paid f t .r it. Ho also referred to the case of \ ictoria, to shew that the people of this colony were iiK'rt! fairly represented in Parliament t! .m lun'. one.

He defended the Legislative Council from the attacks made upon it, and referred to Stuart Mill, who held that a nominee Upper Chamber was more likely to be conducive to the interests of the people than an elected one. Those who remembered the dead-lock in Victoria some years ago would realise the force of that argument. At any rate, New Zealand had one advantage, whatever the Upper House was ; that it could be gradually reformed by the will of the House of Representatives, and the will of that House was but the will of the people. The hou. gentleman then referred to ilie warm support given to .Local Government Bill 1 in Mr. otafford b administration by the hon. member for the Hutt, who said that such a measure must eventually become law. The evils the lion, member then pointed out, namely, that the out-districts were neglected, for the advantage of the cities, were the same now as then and cited several instances of broken promises, and persistent neglect on the part of the Wellington Provincial Government towards its country districts. A great deal had been said about confiscated lands. Some few years ago, when W.inganui applied tj be a new province, Dr. Featheraton rushed into the market a valuable block of land in the Waitara, and Bold it to a few Wellington speculators ; and yet said they derived so little revenue from the district that they did not .feel justified in making roads. On the other hand, the General Government had sold the confiscated land in open market to the highest bidder, and the result was the establishment of Patea, one of the most thriving settlements in the colony. Twelve months ago Mr. Vngel arranged that Wellington should receive £00,000 advance, provided certain lands should be reserved for settlement. Well, they wanted the money, and entered into an arrangement, but after that the Superintendent applied to have the mortgage lifted, solely with the object, as he said, of selling this land, and realising £00,000 from the land sales that year. He could not agree with the cry raised about a property tax, because he imagined that cry was insincere. How was it they never heard that cry before from the Provincialists ? Strike a blow at your wealthy men, who are aiding in its progress by tho investment of their capital, anil they would Btrike a fatal blow at the progress of tho colony, for these men would leave the colony at once, for ever and ever. As to the legal opinion taken on the matter, it would have been highly unconstitutional for the Government to seek opinions elsewhere after having had that of their own Law Officer. With regard to tho speech of the hon. member for Avon, it would be found to be strongly in favour of the Government. The very provisions of the bill were in consonance with the very principles advocated by the lion, member. The hon. member also made a threat. He said that if the bill passed, they would have separation. The original cause for the separation cry was fear of the designs of the North Island on the land fund of the South, but that fear was removed by the present measure. He, for one, would respect the compact. The South had nobly aided the North at the time of the three million loan, and subsequently by a vote of seven hundred thousand pounds to purchase a lauded estate for the North Island. He did not agree with one principle in the bill, and that was that certaiu costs of immigration should be charged on the land revenue; because, in the first place, you could not make certain the immigrants would remain whero first located; and such a regulation would have tho effect of turning people against immigration altogether. He would give the bill his hearty support. [The hon. gentleman sat down amid a loud burst of applause.] Mr. REID moved the adjournment of the debate. Sir D. McLEAN opposed it. A division was called : IS in favour of the amendment, and 25 opposed to it. Mr. WEBB supported the second reading of the bill. He considered that all doubts raised as to the legality of the course of procedure had been sufficiently answered by tho Government. Even if there were any illegality about the matter, the British Parliament would not hesitate to ratify any action the House deemed necessary. Another great point of objection taken was that the time was inopportune, and people were unprepared for it. Why, for years and years the cjuestion was iu people s minds ; it was daily discussed in articles and letters in the newspapers, and upon every occasion when a representative met his constituents. The idea entertained by many Provincialists was that this House was a mere money-raising machine for the Provincial Governments to scatter the proceeds broadcast. When ho rellected upon what good had been done by the Upper House, he regretted having heard tliein spoken so strongly of, and would regret if any serious changes were made in the constitution of that House, and he hoped the Opposition would abandon that factious opposition which they had resorted to of late. Sir DONALD McLEAN wished to move that the debate be resumed to-morrow, at 2.30. A long and acrimonious discussion then followed for several hours, the Opposition members complaining that the Government were over-riding everything with their powerful majority, and acting in an unusual and unprecedented way ill shelving private business to make way for the abolition debate. The Government supporters on the other hand complained of the factious tactics of a tyrannical minority, and recriminations were exchanged freely, and Sir Donald McLean moved that the debate be resumed at halfpast two, which was opposed by Mr. O'Rorke, who maintained that a day's notice of such an intention should be given. Sir George Grey, I'eid, Keeves, Murray,and Fitzherbert entreated the Government not to gress their intentions, and ultimately Mr. heehan announced that the Opposition were satisfied, and did not care to carry on a discussion, having entered the protest they considered necessary. The House adjourned at ten minutes to four a. m.

AFTERNOON SITTING.

MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS. In the House of Representatives, the Napier Gas Company Bill was read a second time. In reply to Mr. Mervy.v, Mr. BO WEN said it was intended that the Goldiields revenue should be locally extended. Mr. SHEEHAN asked whether any enquiry had been held into tho statements contained in the petition of Henry Allen, in accordance witli the report of the Public Petitions Committee of last session ? Sir DONALD McLEAN said certain Eapers in connection with the case had not een prepared, and au enquiry had not been held in consequence. CONFISCATED LANDS. Sir DONALD McLEAN then took occasion to make a brief statement that the Government would move for a Select Committee to enquire into the confiscated land transactions, but would only do bo upon the understanding that the Opposition would not raise a debate on the motion and speak againbt time, as was done last night. The Government did not want business arrested by these frivolous discussions merely with the object of protracting business. Mr. RE ID objected to such charges being made against the Opposition, especially when they wero not true. Sir GEORGE GREY would not admit that the Government had shewn any readiness to grant enquiry into land transactions. He could state many other instances in which tho Government did not endeavour to enquire into land transactions. He most distinctly declined the offer made by the Native Minister regarding his motion. The matter then dropped. ABOLITION DEBATE. Mr. DONALD REID resumed tho Abolition debate. He deprecated the references which had been made to the Provincial officers in the House. He repudiated all such insinuations, and hoped no single member would allow himself to bo influenced by any such taunts as those of acting from self interest. Looking at tho reasons adduced for abolition of tho provinces as keenly as

he could, he could not find in them anything to influence him in the least. It was an erroneous idea to suppose that abolition would give the country districts a large share of their revenue. It was argued that nine provinces were a bar to our progress, but the facts did not support this, rather otherwise. The colony would attain greater eminence ivith these institutions than without them. At present they possessed true local Government. What the bill promised them was not local sclf-gover.i-ment at aIL If local government in Taranaki or other places had failed, that was no reason why the provinces should be abolished. He could not admit that the Government bill granted local self-government. In fact, that House was not the one to grant local self-govern-ment. It appeared to him that, from what he read in the Financial Statement, and for other reasons, he could not disabuse his mind of the idea that the real aim of the Government was to get the laud fund of the colony into their hands. They would prefer that to levying fresh taxation. They were told that the change was desirable from : economical motives, but from what heknewof Provincial Governments he was convinced the idea was a mistake. The work could not be carried on without the help of these officers, or substitutes. If they were to give more to the people than they got f l orn "the provinces, where was the money to eoniu from ? Would it not be taking from the people with one hand, and giving to them with another? He would regret the day when Provincial Councils would abdicate their functions in favour of the General Assembly. After going carefully through the bill, he could not see how the Government could fulfil the promises made to the out-districts. They were referred to Victoria as endowin" Road Boards out of the consolidated revenue ; but it must not bo forgotten that she also paid in eight hundred thousand pounds from the land fund into the consolidated revenue. (Hear, he.-.r.) The system of granting the subsidies out of consolidated revenue could not possibly be continue.!, and if so, would be undesirable. As compared with the Road Boards Bill in Otago, the present measure was a failure. In many respects it was copied from Otago provincial ordinances; but unrortunately errors and all were copied. The lion, gentleman deprecated destroying existing institutions at once, and then begin to build up something in their stead. It was no argument to say that other countries did without Provincial Institutions. Our circumstances were peculiar to ourselves. On the question of endowments, he must object to the revenue coming first into the hands of the General Government, who might distribute it according to their good pleasure, taking their laud fund and any charges the Government proposed to put upon it. Tho out-districts of Otago would be much better off under existing arrangements. It was really a pity that such a grave question as the overthrowing of a Constitution, should be decided upon such narrow grounds as the amount of money each district had had expended upon it. On the one hand, Provincial Governments were accused of rushing land into the market, and on the other, that they did not spend money enough. Speaking with some knowledge of these affairs, he made bold to say that members residing in the out-districts would find, when this change took place, that they would be a great deal worse off than under the present system. From a political point of view, he considered Abolition would have a most depressing effect upon the political life of the colony. Provincial Councils educated and elevated public opinion, and relieved tho House from discussion on many small matters. While n most strenuous advocate for central legislation, he utterly abhorred central administration. It was rather noticeable that many of those who were so loud in their denunciation of Provincial Councils were those who were rejected candidates for Provincial honours. New Zealand had been compared with Victoria, but the circumstances of the two colonies are not at all analagoua. Melbourne was the capital of that colony, and was the place where all did their business, but who in Auckland or Otago came to Wellington to transact their business. Regarding the other branch of the Legislature he hoped no serious interference would be made with it. They had done good service once by saving this House from itself, and he hoped it would do so now. If the bill went to committee he would endeavour to make the bill the host he could, but would not support the third reading before the bill went to the people. Sir. CRACROFT WILSON said he was no mere paid Provincial servant; he was the head of an Executive, yet ho would in all honesty of conviction support this bill. He was pained to sec the attitude taken by the hon. member for Auckland City West and the party he acted with ; and he felt that much as the House respected that li»n. gentleman for his past services to the colony and in the colony, he must expect if he continued the same tactics as he was now pursuing to be treated to the roughest language Parliament allowed. He regretted that the hon. gentleman had seen fit to make such a fierce onslaught upon the Upper House. The hon. gentleman referred to the previous legislation of the House of Representatives to show that the members for Otago alone were to blame if any poor inau could not get as much land as he could pay for. Why, in twelve years, twenty seven different land laws were introduced into the House, and sixteen of them actually passed. He doubted the sincerity of this cry for the poor man when coming from the Otago members. All they cared about was the system of Hundreds, by means of which they could graze cattle for little or nothing. The speech was interrupted by the arrival of time for resting.