PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XII, Issue 4291, 14 August 1875, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

[from our special correspondent.] Government Buildings, Wellington, Friday, S p.m. The Evening Post publishes a telegram headed " From George Jones, jun.," and dated Auckland, purporting to give ana_couut of the Eden meeting—declaring it was packed by Provincial officers and does not represent tho feebngs of the people. The same telegram appears iu the Tribune ai " Specially telegraphed." Jones is understood to have been sending party telegrams to the papers lately, but neglecting to prepay them, and the Post has therefore taken this method of stopping it. There was rather a lively debate this afternoon over Sir George Grey's motion for leavo to bring in a bill to render void all Orders in Council relating to confiscated lands issued since 20th July. Had the motion been for a Select Committee of Enquiry it would undoubtedly have been carried ; but as it is the Government look upon it as a vote of want of confidence, and will try to force a division, but probably the Opposition will either walk out or into the Government lobby, to avoid a defeat. It is understood that Mr. S. L. Shepherd will resume the abolition debate, to be followed by Messrs. Murray, Balance, and Brandon. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. [PRESS AGENCY.] Wellington, Friday. The following was the busiuess transacted last evening after the closing of the telegraph office :— VARIOUS BILLS. The House of Representatives during tho evening sitting was entirely engaged in committee. The bills passed were :—The Southland Waste Lands Act, ISO"), Amendment Bill ; the Napier Waterworks I/>an Bill ; New River Harbour Board Land Bill, Invercargill Gas Loan Act, 1574, Amendment Bill ; Wellington Harbour Reserve Bill ; Wellington Market Reserve Sale Bill; Inspection of Machinery Bill. SKLOND READINGS.

Westland Waste I-ands Acta Amendment Kill, l'almcrston Waterworks Hill, Auckland Institute Bill, Auckland City Endowment anil Licences Bill, Campbelltown Athemeum Bill, Nelson City Loan Bill, Ann Hood Grant Bill. DECEASED WIFE'S SISTER nil.!.. On going into committee on the Deceased Wife's Sister Bill, Mr. PEARCE moved, "That the Chairman leave the chair." Mr. GEORGE McLEAN protestedagainst trying to shelve the bill, the principle of which had been three times affirmed by the House, and had become law in nearly every Australasian colony. A division was called for, the result being twenty-six in favour of going into committee, and six against. Mr. O'RORKE moved, "That the third reading of the bill be postponed till Wednesday," but it was negatived on the voices, and the bill was read a third time, and passed. There were seventeen pairs. Mr. CUTHBERTSON, who called for a division, did so, as lie stated, to expose the surprise attempted, and, although he voted for the chairman leaving the chair, he was a supporter of the bill. The House adjourned at 10.30. A F T K RXOOX S I T TI S G. IMPROVEMENT COMMISSIONERS BILL. The House met at 2.30. The Auckland Improvement Act Amendment Bill was read a second time. The Brisseuden McDonald correspondence was laid on the table. THE TIMARU AND <1 LADSTONE BOARD. Mr. REEVES asked the Colonial Treasurer whether under the Act for the abolition of provinces the Timaru and Gladstone Board works will continue in possession of its present privileges, whereby 25 per cent, of gross amount of land revenue raised within the district is secured to it by au Act of the General Assembly. If so, whether the Road Board is included in the Timaru and Gladstone Board Works and will receive the same grants in aid of rates out of the general land funds of the Provincial District as are promised to other Koad Boards ? The COLONIAL TREASURER said he could answer both questions in the affirmative. If the railway paid the whole of the laud fund it would be available for public works as provided in the bill. As to districts having a larger share than others, that would be rcctilied by a special vote. The whole of the Road Boards would be in a better position, and no one would suUer at all. REPRESENTATION DILL. Mr. SWANSON asked wheu they might expect the Representation Bill. Sir DONALD McLEAN said they did not intend to go on at present with the measure prepared. They would take an early opportunity of bringing down a representation measure, but it would not depend in any way upon the fate of the Abolition Bill. KAIPAKA RAILWAY. In reply to Mr. Siieehax, regarding the construction of the Auckland and Riverhead Railway, Mr. RICHARDSON said the Government had not yet decided ; but the hon. member need not be alarmed ; the railway ivould be constructed. There was iilcnf>- of inonev for it. ' representatives or the <:o- crnmknt. Mr. ROLLL'.STON pave notic ■. of his intention to move for copies c '.' any instructions or credentials given t<> Mr. Thomas Russell, as representing or .i :ting for the Colonial Government; also, tlias there be laid on the table a return shewing in detail all

' payments, "allowances, or gratuities n&de or authorised to be made to any agent or agents or representative of tho Colonial Government on account of services rendered outside the colony since the 30th June, 1874, specifying the services on account of which such expenditure has been made or authorised. RETURN. In answer to a question from Mr, RolLESTOK, The COLONIAL TREASURER laid upon the table returns provided for in the Gsth section of the the Constitution Act. REAL ESTATE. In reply to Mr. Sheeuax, Mr. BOWEN said a bill was in preparation for facilitating the recovery of rates against real estate. CONFISCATED LANDS. Sir GEORGE GREY asked for leavo to introduce a bill to enact that all Orders in Council iu relation to confiscated lauds which may hereafter be issued by the Governor, or which may have been issued since the 20th July last, shall be null and void. Sir DONALD McLEAN said the proposal was of such a character that the Government wou'd oppose the introduction of the bill. Si.-GEORGE GREY proceeded to state his i easons for asking to introduce the bill. The Government already admitted the necessity for bringing confiscated lands under the ordinary laws of the colony. They also adiritted that they had committed an illegal act regarding certain confiscated lands, and he believed many mo.-e unlawful transactions of the same kind had been done. He also belisvcd that many persons now iu the colony held lands out of confiscated blocks without any legal title. He must protest against these secret dealings with land, such as giving large portions of public estate to one gentleman in an illegal manner and without the knowledge cf the House or country. It was time, therefore, that some healing measure should be introduced. Ho denounced the practice of covering over these misdoings by Orders in Council. The hon. gentleman reviewed previous legislation in reference to confiscated lands, and instanced how a clause was introduced into au Act by which several private individuals were placed in a different position to other inhabitants of Auckland. Such things should not be allowed. The land laws of the colony should apply to all alike. They should not be in a position to give one gentleman a property valued at half a million for a mere nothing. Nor should the Government be any longer in a position to introduce laws to rectify their unrighteous acts. In asking to introduce this bill he wanted it to pass through the House as far as tho second reading, and there relegate the matter to tho next Parliament to finally decide as to what was the best means to correct these abuses. They would be a new, unprejudiced, and impartial body, and let them consummate the work begun now. Sir DONALD McLEAN said the Government did intend to bring in a general measure to deal with these lands, as the circumstances that once caused them to be dealt with in a different manner to any other lands of the colony had now passed away. The Government had no objection whatever to any light being thrown upon the transactions referred to. The more powerful the light the better; but he would at the outset repel most strongly all the imputations conveyed by the hon. member. He wanted an inquiry as much as the hon. member, but ho did not want to wait for another Parliament for it, because no Government in the'world could afford to sit quietly down under such imputations as the hon. gentleman cast upon them. Let the inquiry be held by all means, and he had no hesitation in saying the hon. gentleman would find that the Government had not acted unconstitutionally or illegally, as he would make out. The Government Mould accord every assistance in obtaining the most ample investigation. There had been no back parlour work, and no scandalous dissipation of public estate.

Mr. FITZHERBERT said to hear the hon. member at the head of the Government speak regarding these confiscated lands, one would think they were the very models of innocence. They promised to introduce a measure to place confiscated lands under tho ordinary land laws of the colony, but two years ago the very same promise had been made. They had also been told that they would get the proceeds from these lands. He could speak as to Wellington, and tell tho House that out of some twenty thousand pounds' worth sold iu this province, the province received only some fifty-three pounds. If the Government were going to bring in a bill, why not do so at once ?—let them have both bills. What harm could be doue by allowing the member for Auckland City West to bring in his bill ? Let them have these charges of improper land transactions fully investigated. They were not afraid to talk to each other about these things outside the House, but hitherto no one seemed to have courage to open the question in the House, and he would say that anything that liad fallen from the Minister at tho head of the Government did not remove suspicions from his mind that these improper transactions had taken place.

Mr. STAFFORD said no doubt these Orders in Council regarding confiscated lauds were not a desirable species of legislation, but they all knew that the practice regarding confiscated lands was most exceptional, and when it was done, it was wise and expedient to do so. The lion, gentleman defended the General Government of the past for their action towards the conliscated lands. In relation to the three-million loan, he must tell the House that the step taken by the member for Auckland City West amounted practically to a vote of want of conlidoucc, and should have been brought down in a different form. Having listened carefully to the hon. member for Auckland City West, he was surprised at the cool manner in which he insulted the House. He practically told them that they were a partial, and therefore incompetent, body to decide the question at issue, and the statement was made twice that the matter should be finally decided upon by a new and impartial Parliament. Another imputation thrown up to the House by the member for the Hutt was, that until recently it displayed apathy or cowardice, in not daring to bring charges against the Government, aud in not laying bare improprieties of tho Government kuowu to exist; but how did such an allegation recoil upon himself ? Was he always dastard enough not to raise hia voico against improper practices ? Did he never pour out remonstrances in speeches of three days' duration ? lie trusted such insults would never again be heard from the member for the Hutt against the Houso and his former colleagues. As to the improper practices referred to, he knew nothing, though ho believed he did of one particular ease, nor did he of thoso Orders in Council referred to, but he maintained that Orders in Council, when made, were as much law its any laws in tho colony. Had the lion, member asked for an iuvestiuation, he should have had his support ; but, initead of that, he burked inquiry and insulted tho Houso by telling them, you are not worthy to examine this matter, but relegate it to a new and impartial tribunal. linagiuo such a charge hanging over the heads of any Government without an opportunity for repelling it, —imagine any Government sitting down quietly under these imputations, and allowing them to filter into the minds of the people and go with them to the hustings aud confront them at the next election ! The idea was ingenious, but he trusted the House would not allow such tactics.

Mr. SHKHIIAN said tlie Government should not have objected at the initial stage to the introduction of the bill,—they should have waited till the second reading. He defended the motion as a proper mode of procedure to obtain an inquiry, but as Government objected so strongly to it, and saw in it that which it was not intended'to be, ho would ask the Government to give a promise to the House that no action would be taken by them to rectify any illegal act before the enquiry was held.

Mr. ATKINSON read the words of the resolution, to shew that it said nothing about an enquiry, but wanted to condemn the Government without givinc them any /opportunity to defend themselves. The Goveru-

ment were thus forced to stand or fall upon the question raised, and however anxious for an enquiry, they would not, after the remarks made use of in the debate, declare their intention as to what they would or would not do, but if a committee of enquiry was moved for, they would promise them every and the utmost assistance in having a complete investigation.

Mr. READER WOOD, with all his experience of Parliament, had never seen leave refused to introduce a bill by making it a vote of want of confidence. Everything seemed now to be regarded as a vote of want of confidence. It was fast becoming impossible to obtain any investigation; they were, in fact, gaqged. Then as to the hon. member "for Auckland City West insulting the House, he could not see it. He asked this House to consider the whole question that session, but as there was too mucli business before the House this session, let the next Parliament advise and decide upon means of dealing with the matter.

Mr. CUTHBERTSOJ! said the hon. member for Auckland City West had expressed himself to the effect that the next Parliament would be a more fair and impartial tribunal to decide upon it. He did not hear the lion, member ask for an enquiry, but he had heard Government express a strong desire for the fullest enquiry, and offering every assistance. The object of the resolution was to burke all enquiry, and condemn the Government by a side-wind. Speaking as an independent member, for ho was not a Government follower, the Government had no other course left but to oppose such a resolution at the very outset, and he hoped the House would shew its disapprobation of such iudecent tactics.

Mr. L. SHEPHERD asked how it was that bo many leading Opposition members having no confidence in the present Ministry had for years been silent ? They had good ground for complaint against the Government. They did a great injury to the country by not making those charges. If the hon member for Auckland City We3t really wanted an enquiry, he should have moved for a Select Committee, fairly comprised of both sides, and not endeavour to condemn the Government in a most unconstitutional manner. He would oppose the resolution, but would support the hon. gentleman if he would ask for an enquiry.

Mr. LUCKIE was astonished to hear the House accused by one speaker of prejudice and cowardice, aud by another of being corrupt and contemptible, and likening tins to a French parliament under ancient regimes — mero recorders of decrees. He was glad to see the Government challenge the fullest enquiry.

Mr. REEVES said a great deal of what had bsen said was only throwing dust in the eyes of the House. (Hear, hear, from both sides.) It was idle for the member for Timaru to say ho knew nothing of these charges. Last session a grave charge had been made in the other House, and if no one else would repeat it here, he would. It was this : "That Government had, in contravention of the laws they themselves had made, sold a most valuable portion of the public estate in the centre of the North Island, to Thomas ltussell, Charles Taylor, and others, for 2s Cd per acre. It was certainly stated that the price was ss, but half of that was given towards making a road through this land." That was a charge which demanded investigation. What answer did the Premier give to that charge ? While admitting that the act had been illegal, he also said thoy intended to confirm that act. That transaction was a wanton and wicked waste of the public estate ; and now, when it was desired to take a first step towards a full and fair enquiry, they were met by a denial, and all discussion was burked.

Mr. BUCK LAND gave the history of the blocks of confiscated land in the Waikato, all of which were eagerly bought up by the people of Auckland, but no one was found who would touch this swamp. It was in» accessible and lay there for years. At length certain capitalists offered to purchase the block at a good price. The price which had been previously paid upon the land when being classified. Ho was not prepared to say whether the Government or company had the best of the bargain, tut he knew that it was perfectly legitimate. He knew that thousands of pounds had been spent in making the road through the swamp, and hundreds of persons had been employed on it, and the making of that road had been a great boon to the whole district. The Government acted perfectly right in resisting the resolution, because it was as direct a vote of want of confidence in the Government as could possibly be. Mr. ANIHtKW opposed leave for introducing the bill. Sir GEORGE GIIKY said the bill was introduced to remedy certain illegal acts. If there had been any illegal action, there were the Courts of Law to appeal to. Mr. MONTGOMERY said, as a follower of the member for Auckland City West., that no want of confidence was intended. He merely wanted an enquiry, as the Government were opposed to granting the lease. Looking upon it as a vote of want of confidence, lie hoped the motion would be withdrawn (No, no !). Mr. J. E. ISUOWN said it appeared to him that the lion, member leadiug the Opposition did not understand the nature of the motion he brought down, and lie was convinced that if the party had been consulted, such motion would not have been made. It was a most dangerous act to conceal and annul contracts and arrangements made under Orders in Council. The mode proposed by the hon. member, who professed to be anxious for an enquiry, was a most improper course to obtain it. Why did he not accept the challenge of the Government to niake an enquiry, especially after the Government offering every access to papers connected with the case. He regretted that the Opposition could not conduct their opposition on more constitutional grounds. Mr. BUNNY said discussion had done good, because the matter could not be allowed to rest there. It was due to the Government itself, andthe country would expect to have the fullest information regarding the whole matter, aud he hoped the member for Auckland City West would move for a select committee, and that Government would promise to take no further action in the matter before the enquiry of the committee. Mr. TOMPSON considered a great deal too much power was placed in the hands of Government in the way of issuing Orders in Council. While admitting himself a follower of the member for Auckland City West, he regretted he had not brought down a motion embodying his views. He did not think the object of the resolution was a vote of want of want of confidence, because he did not know such a motion was intended. Ho believed the object of the resolution was to prevent any action by Government to ratify an illegal act, as the Native Minister intimated to the House was intended to be done.

Mr. MEUVIX said that the chief reason which induced the South Island to sanction the raising of the three million loan was the hope of what would be realied from the confiscated lands, and it was quite right the General Government should retain complete control of these lands. But now that circumstances had greatly changed, lie was glad tolearnth.it thoGovernment intended placing these lands in future under the ordinary laws of the colony. Without going into the matter raised during the discussion, he would say that the motion should be met by a direct negative, and not be allowed to be withdrawn.

Mr. J. SHEPIIAUD, though generally a Government supporter, would not uphold them one minute if he thought them guilty of so shameful a misuse of the public estate. The matter was too grave to rest where it was. The fullest inquiry must be made. At present, thu position of the case was allegation on one side and denial on the-other. He hoped the discussion would end and the motion be withdrawn, ami that Government would give an assurance that a full inquiry would bo held.

Sir DONALD McLiCAN announced that it was the intention of the Government to

resume the debate at half-past seven, and continue it to the conclusion.

Mr. MURRAY hoped the Government would promise that nothing would be done regarding Orders in Council till enquiry was made.

Mr. ROLLESTON said it would have been a direlection of duty on the part of the House had not so grave a matter been noticed in some more decided manner than by a mere casual expression of opinion, and the member for Selwyn deserved thanks for having brought the matter forward. He hoped the Government would move for a committee of enquiry. Mr. GEORGE McLEAN said if the motion of no confidence was to be brought forward it should be done in proper form. In its present shape he could not countenance it in any way. There could be no doubt that a vote of want of confidence was intended, because the speech of the member for Selwyn quite bore out that view. Mr. WHITE was proceeding to move an amendment when cut short at 5.30.