NEWTON LITERARY ASSOCIATION.

New Zealand Herald, Volume IV, Issue 1131, 29 June 1867, Page 6

NEWTON LITERARY ASSOCIATION.

Yesterday evening tlio members of tho discu33ion class belonging to tlio Association met to cont-inuo the adjourned debate on the question, it Responsible Government —is it expedient in tho Provincial Council Sir. Holdsbip in tho chair. Dr. Kidd opened tho discussion by recapitulating the arguments he urged on tho last meeting, and which we have already published. Mr. Ross said this was a sul jcct to which ho had given very little thought. He had always thought that members of Council were responsible to their constituency. Ho thought that a body of men, after due dolibcr;uion, v.'cro better able to judge of what was best than u single individual. Xt had boon advanced that it was not well to give the power into one hand to veto tho resolutions of a number ; he fully agreed to that view of tho casa. Mr. Fai:xali~j drew attention to tho fact that in Illinois and "Wis'onsin the salary of the Governor Was 2000 dollars (£-100), while hero it was .-ESOO. Mr. I'aof. -wished to know by what authority a reporrer was in attendance. After complaining of having been misreported on a former occasion, ho •went on to speak at some length. Mr. SitALTiEHS said that ho was in favour of Bosponsiblo Government in tho Provincial Council, and he had his reasons. He was guided in his decision by the circumstances of the province. They had had such a succession of Superintendents. Somo had been popular—some had not. It was difficult to get a Superintendent who would j command tho popular voice. If tho population did not uphold him, it was difficult to get the Provincial Council (tho representatives of the popular voice) to uphold him also. Therefore, to obtain thorough harmony, it was expedient to have responsible Government. There should be such an understanding between the Council and Superintendent as to keep in peace and harmony tho i representative body. He looked with pleasure on the effect that had been produced on the Council, during tie two or three weeks sinco the election of the present Executive. There seemed to bo so much harmony, and measures seemed to be conducted on a more judicious footing. These, among others, were the reasons why ho would tako tho affirmative side of the question, and uphold the theory that it was expedient to have responsible Government. He would not have the provinces entirely independent of the General Government, and instanced the case of Southland, which had brought itself to the verge of bankruptcy, by managing its own affairs in its own way. Provincial Governments, he affirmed, were apt to bring themselve< into difficulties, from taking things in a provincial light rather than in a General Government light. Mr. Cakh said if they had Parliamentary Government the Fxecutive would only bring such measures ■forward as could be passed and bo in force. There were in his opinion two houses ; the Provincial Council, (a public chamber) and tho Saperinter.dent and Ilia Executive, (a private chamber). It did not seem to him hat Responsible Government would interfere with the present relations between tho Council and tho Executive. If there was Responsible Government, there wouid be some cry by which the public would be actuated, and then the Executive would not be the favorites of tho Superintendent but representatives of the popular voice, aud this would be a far more healthy state of things. If this reduced the Superintendent to a cypher, perhaps it would be all the better, for tho majority of tho province would he represeuted. It would introduce men into the Executive who were well worthy to fill the place. Mr. Smith said he wa3 in favor of ft Council passing enactments that they thought best fitted for the interests of tho people, without tho Superintendent having the right to veto those enactments. He went on the principle that two heads were better than one, and a dozen were better than two. If this was Responsible Government, he was in favor of it. If by Responsible Government was meant that the Council should pass laws without the Superintendent being allowed to veto them —(A voice—The Superintendent has still a vote). If the Superintendent had still power to veto anything passed by the Council he must confess he was still ignorant of what Responsible Government was. As for Southland, it was because they relied upon the General Government helping them out of their difficulties, which caused them to plunge deeper into debt "than they otherwise might have done. Mr. Faenalii agreed with Mr. Shalders' view of the question. Mr. Dewom said Responsible Government rould not be properly carried out in Auckland, unless 'here were two parties—he might call them liberals and conservatives. He would suggest that each man in the Council should be paid a certain sum for each sitting, and then properly looked after by his constituency, to fee that he did that for whicli he was Bent to that Council. This was the way in which the Government w»3 carried on in the French Provinces of America. If the member did not do that for which he was sent to the Council, it was in the power of his constituency to give liitn a hint to resign. Responsible Government in the province was perfectly useless unless they had Responsible Government in the General Assembly. Mr. Holbship said the debate had not been so useless as some might have thought. If subjects of this kind were more often discussed they would know more of what was being carried on in the Provincial Council. For himself he at first could not understand what waa meant by Provincial Responsible Government. But from what he had heard in the discussion ho learned that according to the late course of action, if the Superintendent was in opposition to the Council, and if he elected an Executive according to his own mind, the Council could not, if they wished it, remove that Superintendent or that Executive ; but with Responsible Government, while they could not remove tho Superintendent, they could remove his Executive. This, as far as he could see, vras tho only advantage that would be gained by Responsible Government. He considered the Provincial Council to be merely a number of men met together to consider on matters, and to represent the wishes of their constituents to the General Assembly. The better way. was_ to make the Superintendent responsible, and let him make his Executive responsible to him, then they would be more likely to get laws more fitted to the province of Auckland. Dr. Kxdd, in reply, said he had listened with great pleasure to the remarks that had been made. They £.11 seemed to be agreed as to principle, although there seemed to be some misapprehensions as to facts. Much had been said about a power of veto being given to the Purerintendent, but on the other side it must be remembered that he could make no law without the consent of his Council. He would give him a veto, but he would like that veto to be limited to a certoin extent. In America after a Governor had vetoed an enactment, should the Senate pass the same law by a majority of two thirds of the Council, it then became law in npite of his veto. In the extreme case of a Superintendent acting diametrically opposite to the wish of his Council, it was in the power of the Council to petition the General Government for the removal of that Superintendent. It was not desirable for business purposes, however, to reduce him to a nullity. Ho objected to the term Responsible Government, as, in fact, the whole of the Provincial Government was a responsible one. He thought that by far ths hotter term was Parliametary Government. It was a happy thought of Mr. Shalders, that the Executivo should be the voice of the Superintendent to the Council, and the voice of the Council to the Superintendent. The head of the present Executive was formerly the head of tho Superintendent's opposition, and by this means the present harmony was brought about. It was a monstrous anomaly in the New Zealand Parliament that a member could be taken into tho Executive Without going back to his constituency. This gave riße to a great deal of party scheming. In his introductory observations he pointed out three points in which the new Zealand Provincial Government differed from the Parliamentary Governments of othor countries : First, the Superintendent's office was not hereditary ; second, there was Only one chamber: and third; the power of the Council was so limited. To these he might add that in every caße of Parliamentary Government, the head of the Government had the power of diesolving tho House. The Superintendent in Auckland had no each power. These wore the points on which the Provincial Government of Auckland differed from Parliamentary Government. While he paid every respect to Her Majesty from her position as hereditary monarch, he would pay far more respect to the Governor, who by his virtues and talents wai chosen by the unanimous vote of the people. The question was then put to the vote,'" Responsible Government, is it expedient in the Provincial O'oun--dl?" Ayes, 7; Woes, 6. Tho meeting then adjourned.