PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

New Zealand Herald, Volume IV, Issue 1123, 20 June 1867, Page 5

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 19. The Speaker took the chair at three o'clock. The Olerk to the Council read the minutes of proceedings of the previous sitting, which were confirmed. PETITIOHB. There were no petitions. HESSAGB FIIOJI 1113 HOXOH NO. i. The following message wp.s received from his Honor and read by the Speaker :— MESSAGE. " In reply to tho address of the Provincial Council (No. 2, session 21, 1567), forwarding a resolution passed by the Council, to the effect 'That it is desirable that the principle of Ministerial Responsibility for the conduct of public affairs should be established in the Executive Government of the Province,' The Superintendent begs leave to state that will do nil in his powor to co-operate with the Council in giving effect to its wisheß, as expressed in the resolution above quoted." , The announcement was recoived with cries of heas, hear, hear. TII.OT op THE MAMJKAtr. Mr. Stark said that with tho consent of the Council he would postpone putting tho question relating to the station and residence of tho harbour master and pilot of the Hanufcau harbour. TIIE PRESENT SESSION. Mr. Wtsk asked whether the present was to be considered a completo cession in itself, or whether it was to be adjourned and a further sitting take plaoo at some future time. The Provincial Secketary : I am not able to

give a definitivo answer to the hcm. gentleman's question at this moment. I shall anßwer the question to-morrow. Mr. WYXx gave notice that ho -would repeat hia question to-morrow (this day.) CITY BOARD ACT ] 863 "AMENDMENT ACT. Mr. Wyss moved for leave to bring in a bill to amend the City Board Act. Leave was given, and the bill ordered for second reading to-morrow (this day.) ara. BUSBY'S claiit. Mr. Clabk moved, lhat the petition from a meeting lately held in the Chamber of Commerce, and from other colonists, relative to Mr. Bußby'a claim on the Government bo referred to a selact committee, consisting of Mr. Webster, Captain Cooper. Mr. Dignan, Mr. Newman, Mr. O'Neill, Colonel Peacocke, and the mover. He blieved that no objection would be taken to the motion, seeing the number and respectability of the names on the committee. Mr. CreightoN thought as the object of the petition involved important public interests, he would like to see the Government better represented oil tho committee. It Beemed as if there was a desire to get as great a number of tho old hands, eo to speak, on the committee as possible. Not that he supposed the gentlemen named would knowingly do any injustice, but it would be more satisfactory perhaps if tha publio interests involved in the question were better represented. He would suggest the name of Jlr. Bowe in addition. Mr. O'Neill thought that the Government was already well represented, in having on the committee Mr. Dignan and Colonel Peacocke. He did not think the old hands would do any injustice, they were amenable to their own consciences as to tho publio trust imposed in them, as other men were. Mr. Cbeiqhtok said he did not understand that Colonel Peacocke was a member of the Government. He would withdraw the amendment. Mr. Stake thought the amendment ought not to be withdrawn. The Speaker said an amendment could not ha withdrawn without the unanimous consent of tho whole Council. Question put. The name of Mr. Rowe was then, upon the vote of the Council, added to the committee. PILOT AND HARBOUB MASTEB OF THE MANAKAC. Mr. Wras moved, That a Belect committee be appointed to enquire into the conduct of Captain Wing, pilot for the Manakau, in reference to the ship Cambodia. Oommittee to consist of Mr. Gilfillan, Mr. O'Neill, Mr. Stark, Mr. Swanson, and Mr. Webster. He said that complaints had been made against Captain Wing with great persistency ; first with respect to the wreck of the Orpheus, last in connection with the wreck of the Cambodia, and indeed overy session of the Council thename of Captain Wingwasbefore the Council. He did not say that Captain Wing wes guilty of anything wrong, or that anything could be established against him; but it was desirable that an investigation should take place with, a view to clear up these charges and imputations if there was anything in them.

Mr. Stabs: said that Captain Wing might say with reason " saye me from :«y friends." He would second tho motion, but would beg tlie House not to allow the conduct of a public officer to be prejudged by prejudiced statements that might have gona abroad.

Mr. O'Neill thought that as to the conduct of Captain Wing the Government should have been first to take the matter up. Though Captain Wing was appointed by the General Government, yet ha was the servant of the Province, and might ha obliged to resign if the Provincial Government cliobo to refuse his salary. He thought the matter was entirely for the Government. Mr. Pais said that both for the sake of Captain Wing, in the interest of the public, and the safety of ships coming into tho Manulsau, it was desirable that tho subject should be investigated. The charges made were grave, and it was most desirable for all the reasons he had stated that they Ehould be inquired into. Mr. Newman thought the matter appeared to be a dispute between two persons, arising out of circumstances with which the Council had very little to do. Mr. Wvnn thought the motion should pass. He knew nothing whatever about the Cambodia or tha matter in dispute, but his ex perience in the Council was that the name of Captain Wing was constantly coming before the Council, and it was even his interest that the inquiry should take place. The motion wae agreed to. IIH. P. GFACE.

Mr. Wynn moved, That the petition of Peter Grace be referred to a select committee, consisting of Mr. Hunter, Mr. Morrow, Mr. Monro, Mr. Bowe, Mr. Sheehan. and Mr. Swanson. Mr. Cheeseman said that the petitioner accepted nn arrangement, received a sum of money, and gava a quittance. I*id not see after that what cause of grievance the petitioner could have. Mr. Creighton suggested that the name of Mr. Clieeseman should be added-to the committee. Mr. Cheese3lA.it said he was himself a contracting party, and ought not to be on the committee. Motion agreed to. LAXDS RETURN. Mr. Newman moved, That an address be presented to Hiß Honor the Superintendent requesting that he will furnish to the Council a return of all lands disposed of by the Government in the parishes of Maungatapere, Maungakaramea, Buarangi, Te Mata Buakaka, and Waipu, and in such parts of tha parishes of Waikiekie, Mareretu, and Wairau, as lia within the boundaries of the purchases made by Mr. Busby from the natives when New Zealand was ail independent country, distinguishing those portions of land which were disposed of by free grants lrota those portions which were sold, and specifying the ButQß of money received for the latter. _ Mr. Cbeighton thought the motion pertained to matters which might very well be comprehended m the information to be got up by the committee on Mr. Busby's claim. The motion was agreed to. THANKS TO CAPTAIN- HOPE, H.JI.S. BRISK. Mr. Gilfillan moved, That this Council desires to offer to Captain Hope, 8.N., of H.M.B. Brisk, its cordial thanks for the valuable aid he has to the Provincial Government m matters relating to proposed improvements to be made within the harbour of Auckland, as well as for the public testimony he has voluntarily given to its importance and advanta Js aa a maratime port. That an address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent requesting him to transmit a copy of the above resolution to Captain Hope. He thought that it would be only a graceful acknowledgment of the kindness manifested by Captain Hope in all the inquiries relating to the improvements in the harbour. Motion unanimously agreed to. petition or Joseph ttjckwell. Mr. Qilfillak moved, That the names of MrDi°nan and Mr. Swanßon be added to those of the members already proposed to serve on the select committee on the petition of- Joseph Tuckweil ana 0t The' motion was postponed until' Mr. Wynn a motion should be disposed of. -wholesale LICENCES. Mr. Bail moved, That an address be pKsenwa to his Honor the Superintendent send down to this Council a return of all wholeeab

licenses, urder Licensing Act of 1563, issued to persons residing olsewhero than in the city of Auckland; on whose certificate such licenses were granted; together with copy of a letter of tho Resident Magistrate of Mongonui on tho subject of granting euch liceneos. ! The motion was agreed to. his honor's message. Mr. "Wynn said in moving that his Honor's message, bo considered, ho had do3cribcd that meSßago as ambiguous, and should havo continued in that belief had ho riot receivod explanation from an honorable gontlcman ablo to give that information, that it really was his Honor's intention to co-oparato with tho Council. Ho moved, That in roply to his Honor's Message No. 1, tho Council beg to thank his Honor for his prompt and satisfactory answer to tho address of the Council respecting Responsible Go. vornment. Thero was -littlo uso in discussing tho address, as the Council had obtainod all thoy wanted. ArruorEiATiON' hill expenditure. Mr. O'Neill moved, That in the opinion of this Council it is oxpedient to repeal the existing Appropriation Act, eo that tho Council may havo an opportunity of recasting tho estimates of expenditure, •with the view of equalising the expenditure with tho probable revenuo of the Province. Ho said that his Honor, in his address, had told tho Council that if the revenue of the Province foil proportionately to the ratio at" which it had lately decroased, the provinco would not be ablo to meet the public creditor. It was ft matter of tho greatest urgency to deal with the question of expenditure, Tnero was £7000 for a land office when there was no land to sell, and this sum represented a large and cumbrous machinery. Two highly paid officers of this department could afford to spare four months of the year to be absent, and he thought if that was so tho public might expect to deduct from their large salary what might bo equivalent for the time of which thoy wero deprived. 'His Honor was in this respect in a difficult and delicate position, but the necessity of dealing with these matters of public expenditure was becoming imperative. Ho (Mr. O'-Neill) had only tho ono abject in view, namely, to kosp tho provinco out of debt. The Provincial Secretary hoped the hon. n-embor would not press his motion. Thero was a very large amount of business on tbo paper, and the session being so short—aud tho timo of tho present Government in office to short —that- there had been scarcely sufficient time to consider all tho bearings of those important matters. Tho House would bo fully informed of his Honor'sintontiou, aud the intentien of the Executivo ou this subject. Mr. Rovte said that there would be an estimate for the year laid before the Council. He agreed with tho the statement mado by an hon. member as to responsibility of the General Government for a largo portion of the destitution arising from surplus labor. The General Goverument had not carried out their purposes, and tho provinco had been charged a portion of the expense concequcnt upon their failure. Ho therefore hoped thai retrom'hroent and reduction ■would be insisted upon in that quarter also, for there was a party in power now that would try to wring every farthing that was possiblo out of the province, and some action ought to be taken by the provinces to secure themselves against such proceedings ; that the provinces, at all events, should obtain their fair Bharo of the revenue. Mr. Swanson inquired whether certain expenditure incurred in the Waikato, for certain work— ■whether such work was tm available asset. Mr. Dignan believed that it was. Ho might say that it gave pain to His Honor to hare to give notice to public servants that he must dispenso with their services or reduce thoir 6alary. But, if the public demanded it, it must be done. That should be considered by those who were immediately concerned. There had not been time to consider all the questions involved in ihe various departments affected by the Appropriation Act, and tho middle of the year was also an inconvenient season for doing So. Mr. Buckland hoped the resolution would be withdrawn. It was the duty of the Superintendent to keep the expenditure within the income. Mr. Creightox : asked whether there was any sum realizable out of land revenue, and whether a sum of £15,000 for certain expenses in the Waiscato, contributed by the province, had been claimed from the General Government. The Provincial Secretary said that there would be a sum returned as land revenue, the accounts of which were being prepared. As to the £15,03, it had been claimed from the General Government, and it would bo the business of members of the Assembly to endeavour to get it. Mr. May said that a stop ought to be put (a what appeared to have becomc a matter of course in the minds of some people, namely, that servants of the Government, who should be absent for four months, should continue in receipt of their full salary. That ought to bo stopped at onco. After some fu-ihei- discussion, tho motion was withdrawn. DBY DOCKS.—IN" COilltltTEE. Mr. J. O'Xeiil in the chair. Mr. GiLFiLLiir moved, That this Council do resolve itself into a committee of the wholo to conuider that part of his Honor the Superintendent's opening speech relating to t ; ia construction of n dry dock in tho harbour of Auckland. The part of his Honor's address relating to this subject was read. The Provincial Bscubtary explained that Stanley Point was tho point exactly opposite Queenstreet Wharf. The reauost was that the land above high-water mark from the North Head to Kauri Point should be set apart by the General Government for the purpose of endowments for the im- . provements of the harbour. He begged to move the following resolutions :— " (1.) That an address ba presented to his Honor the Superintendent requesting him to apply to the General Government for the land below high-water mark on the north shore of tho Waitemata, extending from the North Head to Point, be set apart, under the provisions oonrained in the Public Beserves Act, 1854, upon trust for the improvement of the harbour of Auckland, and the construction and maintenance of .such docks, piers, and other works therein, as may be deemed advisable for facilitating the trade and commerce of the city and port of Auckland. . " That it is de.-irable that measures should be taken tor tho construction of a dry dock within the harbour of Auckland, upon such site as may be deemed the best adapted for the purpose. " (3.) That in t'ne.ovent of the lands to bo applied for being granted as endowments as aforesaid, the Superintendent be empowered to apply to the Lords Of the Admiralty for a loan of £20,000 under the Colonial Docks Loan Act, 1865. And that tho balance of money 'required for tho construction of such dock be raised by debentures upon tho security of Such iands and of the dock when constructed." .Mr. CREiciiTO.v thought that tho request should comprise land up to the west of Soldier's Bay. Mr. Newmian thought the Council was committing itself to details before they had thought of the principle at all. Ho.believed that tlis sum which such work as proposed wjuld' cost was far beyond their .reach. Mr. Ball'was disposed to'agree with the hon. member for Raglan, and that the practibility of the I'TOJ i'ct should he first looked f Mr. Cbeighton said it would b° a good thin" to nave an endowment whether the dry dock was good or not—whether practicable or not. It Bcarc4v mattered whether the dock would bo constructed in seven years or in one year. Mr. Mai thought the resolutions should be considered seriatim. Mr. Eowe thought the question was put before the Council for tlieir consideration. The Council should not forget the very important suggestion as to prison labour, which would materially reduce the expense. This matter of itself was important to be dealt with; • Mr. Cbeighton thought that a floating dock •would be tho better. The Provincial Secbetaht reminded tho hon. gentleman that whatever dock they might have, the only one they could have would be one approved by the Admiralty. r J Several members suggested that the object of the Council would be served by passing the first resoludUcußstoi! 16 8 migLt 6tand ovor for further s . a!d here seemed a difficulty; but fhl I f S "T lWtedby obtrlin:n o from Connen at /fnf 6 ? ture bm that wouW enable tho J -,u fut H, ro da y> to decide upon the practica- °^ ber « flying or a dry dock. P Mr. McLbod said it would he a pity if the Council should overlook this most important subject. It was i now a race between this province and those of the Sou th for the custom of the Australian colonies, and a race even with the other colonies, for possessing tho place / -of rendezvous for the XUtish navy. With the vasU

1 resources of timber that the province possessed, and other advantages) tlie result would he a constant stream of money circulating through tlia province. He saw this result in Halifax, in tho West Indios, and other places. Tho Chairman reported progress, tho first resolution having beon agreed to. Tho Council adjourned for an hour. LAND SCRIP FOll IMPROVEMENTS. Major Cooi'Kr moved, That it is the deßire of tliis Council that such alterations shall be made in the Land Regulations as will empower the Superintendent to graut land iu lieu of money as payment for tho construction of roads, bridges, wharves, &c., to the full estimated value of the works done, instead of the half valuo allowed by tho present law ; also that such proviaion of tho Land Regulations may be mado to apply to local Boards as well as to individuals. He said that it was found that in several districts tho population was too poor to bo taxed, and the facility for making improvements should be increased as far as possiblo. Land was nominally valued at 10s. per acre, but only a quota of tho land value could be got for tho serip. The proposal contained in tho resolution indicatod a means of improving out-districts at little or no cost. Mr. McLeOD said Hio question was of vital importance. There was no money, and he hoped tho Government would do everything possiblo to givo compensation in land for improvements. There were a great many districts shut out for the want of roads, as Albertland. If something of this kind were done tho peoplo of that district would combine together for the purpose of making a bridle track to Mahurangi, where one is vory much wanted. There were many districts where the inhabitants might combine for the making of roads, and even two or more .settlers might combino for such a purpose. Mr. CreiGuton suggested that the discussion would probably como on under tho "WasteLand Regulations, and might bo postponed till that subject was considered. Soveral members wore of tho same opinion. Major Cooper said the Waste Land alterations might be thrown out, and then his resolution would be set aside. Tho motion was withdrawn. I'RINTING. Mr. CreiGUton moved, That the following papers, presented to the Council session XX, 1866, bo printed:—(l.) Beport on the State and Progress of the Railway Works. (2.) Report on the State of tho Manukau" Harbour. (3.) Beturn of Native Land, tho purchase of which has beon initiated by tho Provincial Government. (4.) First Genera Report on the Coal Deposits of New Zealand. He considered the printing of theao papers necessary to tho completion of tho printed records of tho province. Mr. Dionan said that this item had overrun the amount appropriated to it. Ho hoped that for the sake of economy tho hon. gentleman would postpone his motion. Mr. Creightoh withdrow his motion. ASSISTED PASSAGE BONDS AND PAYMENTS. Mr. Glask moved, (1.) That an address bo presented to His Honor tbo Superintendent requesting him to send down to this Council ft return of all past due promissory notes for assisted passages, shewing the names of the makers, the amount of euch notes, whether any, and if any, what partial payments havo teen mado on ecoount of each promissory noto, and whether any legal proceedings havo boen taken to enforco payment, and if bo, with what result. (2.) A return of all past d ue bonds .or assisted passages, shewing the names of tho obligors, the amount duo on each bond, whether any, and if any, what partial payments have been made, and whether any legal proceedings have been adopted torecovcr payment, and if so, with what result. He said 'that ho heard his Honor the Superintendent say in his speech to his constituents that these passages had Coßt tho Government nearly £18,000, of which only £1000 had been paid. Ho feared that many persons looked on these bonds as a matter of form, but it was perhaps desirous tD point out to some persons that they were not matters of mere form. PETITION Op JO3EP n TTJCKWEI.iI. Mr. Wynn moved, That tho petition of Joseph Tuckwell and others bo referred to a sclect committe"b, to consist of Mr. Buckland, Mr. Croighton, Mr. Kerr, Mr. May, and Colonel Peacocke. Mr. Wtkn said that in asking tho Council to assent to this resolution he would not detain the Council. The petition showed on tho face of it the necessity of this enquiry. He would rofer to propo sal of tho Provincial Council to add two names to the committee. Unless tho Provincial Secretary could say the committee named was unfair, why should he wish to add other names. It was competent to him (Mr. Wynn) to ask that two other names should be placed on tho committee, another member would ask that two other names Bhould be added, and so on, ending in a committee of the who'e Council. He (Mr. Wynn; had taken part ngainßt the petitioner, believing tbat he had done many things that were improper. But the petitioner had been dismissed at three days' notice, without reason assigned. "Why no' allow tho man to resign ? No money was aeked iu the petition, but all that was wanted was fair play. Tho Provincial Seceetauy moved the addition of tho names of Mr. Dignan and Mr. Swanson. He thought thut. the Government should bo mora fully represented in the inquiry. Mr. Buckland thought that tho Government should be more fuUy represented on the committee. The Council should remember that the petition was from Joseph Tuckwell and " divers others." Tho interests which tho " others" represented might bo very different from Mr. Tuck-well's. It was a really delicate matter to interfere with tho Superintendent and his Hxecutivo in matters of the kind—such, for instaneo, as the power and control of the servants of the Government. Mr. A. Mabtyjt opposed tho addition of the two names, because it was well known that they had been opposed to tho gaoler. Mr. Dignan defied any member of the Council to state any one act which he (Mr. Dignan) had done in opposition to Mr. Tuckwell. Had never beon in the gaol but once. Bemembered that tho gaol had been in a state of mutiny. Mr. Tuckwell could not agrco with tho warders, and the warders would not agreo with Mr. Tuckwell; the whole state of tho gaol waß a mass of confusion. Mr. Ceeichton regretted tho. tono tho discussion was taking. Mr. Tuckwell wa3 dismissed because his warders would not obey him, who was a euperior officer, and this was tho state of mutiny. Whose iault was this demoralization ? not Mr. Tuckwell's who should have found support. But Tuckwell was the victim of gaol regulations, and ha was tho victim of the neglect of tho Goverument, and a popular outcry was got up against him. Had no objection to Mr. Dignan or to Mr. Swanson. The evidence had not boon properly taken. Mr. Dioxan disclaimed any wish to servo on tho committee; he would prefer not to be named at all. Major Cooper justified tho conduct of the committee of inquiry. Tho facts were on record, and could bo referred to by auy member of the House. I Mr. Swanson said,-iftho hon. member, Mr Crei'ghton, complained of the way the evidence was taken, ! why did not he, who was a member of the committee, keep it right? Tho hon. member was for a tima almost like a standing counsel for tho gaoler. Tuckwell had entered in his book allusions to tho com- • mittee of a kind to have justified tho Government to turn him out of doors at once. At all events there j had been no mutiny since he left. The gaol had been conducted efficiently, minus his salary. As to gaol regulations, Mr. Tuckwell took pride to himself At all evo »ts » was most I improper to mtorfero with the Superintendent in the £mol ° r that { f kj ß Honor had dismissed wilat , hc H ad heard ° n committee, he had done ono good and effectivo act. Col. Peaoocke thought tho tono of the discussion was most objectionable, aud challenged inquiry. It Two r i mpr f pC , r 1° lm P u e n the moral justice of Of Mr Tnrtw«lJ d eu qmry was as to dismis.al of Mr. Tuckwell. He also rogretlod tho tone the discussion had assumed. . Mr. Wynn replied. Amendment put to tho House, the " ayes" were declared to have carried the vote. '< That th J™ ealled /f, a d ™i' n on tho amendment," 7® names of Mr. Dignan and Mr. Swanson bo added to tho committee. Some amusement was occasioned during the takin» of the division. Mr. Dignan and Mr. Swanson, who no doubt felt a delicaoy in voting for themselves, wi r j i? 1- ohair - Captain Cooper also wentbeW the chair Mr. Wynn, who was teller tor the " noes, called tho attention of the Speaker, and the three lion, gentlemen were drawn from their retirement, amid loud laughter and voted with the noes. Major Cooper voted with the-" ayes." J he result was: Ayes, 14; noes, 10. Mr. Newman said that he was disposed to move as an amendment, that new names altogether should b e

substituted for the names there. Tho tono of the discussion would suggest this. Ho proposed tho addition of tho names of Mr. Maclean and Mr. Ball. Mr. Bucelahd thought that somo of tho gentlemen who wero on the committee had como to a foregone conclusion. He would support the addition of Mr. Ball and Mr. Maclean. Mr. Swanson? Mr. Buckland has given my notion exactly. I havo come to a foregone conclusion. (Laughtor.) 1 have been inquiring, and have come to a conclusion (Loud laughter), and I think his Honor has dono a proper thing, and if the Council refrain from interfering with him they will be wise. Tho names of Mr. Ball and Mr. McLean were added. Mr. Wynn then moved the original motion that a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to forward to this Council all papers, connected with or bearing on the question of tho dismissal of Mr. Tuckwell, late gaoler of tho Auckland Gaol, together with any minutes or memoranda by tho Superintendent, or any officer of tho Provincial Government,having reference to Mr. Tuckwell's conduct during the period which ho held office. Agreed to. message 1. Tho resolution thanking his Honor for the promptness of his messago and his promiso to co-operate in carrying on responsiblo Government, was passed and ordered to bo forwarded to his Honor. WASTE IANDS ACT ALTERATIONS. Mr. May who proposed tho adjournment not being in his place, Major Cooper said the subject was one of groat importance, but he ogread that there was some haste. The hon. member went through tho proposed alterations. Mr. O'Neill said thero woro two principles in tho proposed chango which he must oppose. He would first say that ho would wish the Provincial Government to be clear of land transactions altogether. One principle to which h.O objected was that of giving a preference to a man coming from Australia over those within tho Province. That waß unfair, and he would raise his voice against it in tho General Assembly. Tho other was giving land in proportion to every £100 in a bank; that plan was open to every kind of abuse, persons combining for purchase under fictitious representations. Tho timo was gone by when thoy could buy lands and give them away. Tho wholo scheme should bo brought down. He would liko to see two or three resolutions put before tho Council and discussion taken upon them. Mr. A. Maetyn agreed with Mr. O'Neill. Ho would movo an amendment, " That any proposals for amending tho "Waste Lands Act should bo introduced by resolution." Mr. Maclean seconded the amendment. Mr. Rowe : The Executive was willing to place itself in the hands of tho Council. Tho changes sought to be mado had his hearty concurrence as to . thoir neoeasity, utility, and probability to work good. There was no purchasing laud to give away. It was soiling it to the man who was coming to improve it. As to collusion, those who catna must occupy for two years long boforo obtaining their Crown grant. Defects were incidental to all plans, but experience might corroct thom. He did not believe that tho forty-aore system was a curse, but tho curse was that which arrested tho forty-acre system. It brought peoplo, labour, and money. Fow know tho j depression that had beon experienced in tho early daya of tho province. Ho had aeeu a letter in which the writer stated that tho Provincial Government wore giving so much for labour, that men refusod to work for him at work for which they could obtain 75., Bs., and 10s. a day. - As for scarcity of land, it was not to bo found in the blue book. Thoro would, for instance, bo the whole of tho Victoria Valley, and soon tho Government would havo somo 90,000 acres near Hawke'e Bay, which would put an end to the annexation question ; alao land in tho Thames. Asked no more for the Government than for private persons. The land was j offered, for sale, and could not bo sold. Evon if it wore given to porsons who would bring capital to improvo it, and tho immigrant bound down to improve it, that would not be giving tho land away. Mr. Wynn said if tho Govornment acquiesced in submitting tho matter by resolution, it was not necessary further to discuss tho principles until, tho resolutions wero beforo tho Council, which should thon bo followed by fulfilment by the Superintendent, or responsible Govornment was a mere farce. Mr. Swanson said tho objection of Mr. O'Neill as to giving a preferenco to persons coming from Australia over tho man in the provinco had not boen answered. Was thoro a cortainty of tho £100 in tho bank belonging to them. He did not think occupation a good test, but the return of produco, tho Holds laid down, &c. As to purchasing lands from Maoris, thoy knew well how to retail land. Ho contended for thoir rights of buying and selling to whom, when, and how they pleased. When tho Government bought land the Maoris must clear out, for they wero driven back by wave after wave of now chums, and so the nativos wore driven back. What was tho consequence? Although tho laud might bo nominally chcap, still, after survoys, &c., were mado and paid for, ho d jubted whether it was a cheap bargain after all. Let the Maoris buy and sell to whom they liked, in that way they might learn something and teach something too. But when thsse great blocks wore bought a new set of people knowing nothing of tho Maoris, wero set down between tho Maori population and the centres of population. Major Cooper said that it wa3 useless to go into the alterations as suggested in tho paper. Mr. Wynn said there was a clear ueqnioseencc in the proposal to proceed by resolution. Mr. Rowe said that if tho Council wero in favor of tho amendment he was prepared to obey tho wish of tlio Council. The Provincial Secretary said that Mr. Wynn was right, but tho Hxecutivo were also right. Tho Executive was in the hands of the Council—that is to say, assont to the amendment, provided alwoys that the Council wished it. Mr. Creigiiton said that tho Government Bhowei a disposition to stand or fall by tho result of tho discussion on tlii3 eubjoct. • Mr. Swanson had put tho wholo question in a new light. The causo of all tin calamities of tho country was tho sotting down people among tho natives who were utterly unacquainted with their prejudices and wishes. In this way it was probable that tho 40 aero Bystom waß responsible for all the misfortunes that had occurred. Tho proposal of the Government was an attempt to introduce population and capital by falsa pretencos. Ho would be no party to such a policy. The Provincial Secretaiiy: If tho hon. member applies such a remark to tho Executive, it is not true. (Loud cries of " Order.") Mr. Creigiiton : Order. The Speaker decided that thero was no breach of order. Although strong language had been used, that used by Mr. Creighton was the stronger. (A laugh.) Mr. Creigiiton hoped that the hon. gentlemen would not bo so thin skinned. They had highway boards all through tho country, or would havo thoai. Suppose <t0 of thc6o boards would spend, say £2000 each improving, that would sweep away 160,000 acres out of tho hulf million that remained. ' Mr. A. Mautvn's amendment, to tho effort that any alterations Bhould bo introduo6d by resolutions was put and carried. ' Tha Council adjourned at ten minutes past 10 o'clock.