PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.—Wednesday.

New Zealand Herald, Volume II, Issue 442, 13 April 1865, Page 5

PROVINCIAL COUNClL.—Wednesday.

The Sprafcer look th< chair at 3 o'clock. The minutes of the j revious sitting were read and confirmed. i ii-rmo's. Mr. A. O'Neill pr< icntf d a petition from John Moody, relating to a < !aim for land. MESSAGES. 101. His Honor lnya before tho Council the conditions under which the £1200 subsidy for tho steam service was to have been given to the owners of tho Storm Bird. Fares not to be increased beyond the pTc=ent rate. Accommodation and provisions not to bo inferior to those supplied by tho Wonpi Wonga. A time tablo to bo agreed upon, giving the utmost service that can he reasonably expected. 105. The Superintendent lays before tho Council preprwals niado by Messrs. "Whitaker and "iinsell on bi'liiil , of Mr. lleddoee, who wishes to lay down a puti-i'.t slip, suitable for ships of laigc tonnage, at the Aorth bhoro, on condition that he Provincial Government will guarantee interest upon the cost D.f.vpnf for ten years. The Superintendent forwards nlso, copy ol'lfttrr from the lion, the Colonial SecroUiiy, containiufj the view of the General Government. Kneloswrcß from TJct-srs. Whitakor and Russell containing the following clauses : — That a leaso of so much of tho land below hij;h wafer mark as (marked pink on the plan) fronts Mr. JBcddoeK , land' purchast.'d sh'<-ll 1"! grantej fur ft!) years.

That !!"■ Troxir.cial C.uvrriu.ci.t shall guarantee fi per cent, on the capital expended for 10 years, as has ! i:cn done "(■<■ the Province of Wellington. (2.) The superintendent inquires the amount of capital proposed to be expended. (3.) Messrs. Whitaker and Ku'sell reply £20,000. (4 ) Letter from thrf Colonial .Secretary informing: tho Provincial Government that, tho General Government will not relinquish all power over land between high and low water mark in the general way indicatt-d. Any part of the land referrod to wo»ld be lea-ed by the General Government, tmhjec-t to the approval of the Governor. 'J' he Commissioner of I ruwn Lauds would bo the person then to enforce the lease. llKl'l.lEs TO AIiIJIiKSMKS <H' TttE COI'SCIL. Mr. Foley aslied tho hon. member at the head of tho Executive when it is tho intention of his Honor tho Superintendent to reply to the addresses s<Tit from this Council requesting him to placo on the estimate of expenditure several additional sums of money for various country distticts. Mr. Caiii.etox niid that a* soon an tho .serio of addresses from the Council, having reference to expenditure, should be completed, the buperinterident would send down tho replica. COLONEL KENNY'S CLAIM. Mr. "Wynj? moved that his Honor's message, relating to Colonel Kenny's cluiin, be taken into consideration before the orders of the day. Mr. Foiey said he did not seo why tho public business should bo preceded by the consideration of the claim of a private individual. Mr. \V\nx said that although personally Colonel Ke-nny was very little t'i the Council, the land of the province was a very impoitant matter for consideration. Tin believed the claim a most unreasonable iir.d illegal one as ever hud been made. Mr. C'ATiLii-roN said tl at ho could only treat tho motion as another of the same series ol motions of •which the Council had experience, and wero devised for tho purpose of imveuing the public business, and he thcu-fcr*! must oppose it. Mr. .T. O'Neii.i. thought the question a very serious one. He thought the riuporintondent should have taken n bolder and more determined course in opposing tt.e action of the General Government giving away the land of the province. The motion was carried. -NOTIcrS OF MOTION. EDICATIO HILL. Mr. King moved, " For leave to bring in a bill to repenl tho Education Act, Session VI., and to make other provisions in lieu thereof." He thought tht<t it was the duty of the Government to have brought down a l>i!I on this subject long before. Tho hon. gentleman at the head of tho Kxecutivn had undertaken the << ls = k - Ho believed that the Education Act had produced an. immense beneiit. 'there was some diiliculty about the interpretation of tho words regulating the pay of tho schoolmasters, ari.-iiig from tin- word " shall." The consequence was, that while in country districts the children weto educated, (ho niai-ters were not paid, and their salaries did nut exceed .£ho or £00 ;-.-year. Tliere had been great lack of interest in this question, and in bringing a bill before tho House, even at thu late period of the session, it would bo a public benefit. It was very diilerout. in town from what it was in country restricts. All denominatiims had to go to ono school. His object was, if he got leave to bring in tlm hill, to refi'r the whole subject to a select eomniittni. , . Tho committee would report to tho House, and the whole cuso would be before the House. One result, hn hoped, would he to oiler inducements for the dissemination ot a sound education. 110 (Mr. King) considered that tho salary of the Inspector was quite inadequate for thu duties that omViir h.ul to perform. Mr. Rose seconded tho motion. Mr. -T. O'Nkill inquired whether it was not des'ruble that, the bill should not be in tho hands of members. Mr. King said that the bill was handed in w Friday last. Mr." FoU' V thought it was too Into in tho session to bring in this measure. I,t was one of too great importance to be hurried through the House. There would be amass of evidence to be produced. Mr. J. O'Xeill thuiijilu it, whs not usual to oppose the leave t > bring in a bill if tin- mover made out a fairly reasonable' cx.-u-e. Jle would support the hull.' member to obtain leuvo, but he. would oppose, strenuously oppose him in doing away with a special inspector 'for one denomination of Christians. He thought, without this special inspector, at least ore cla.-s'of religioni.Ms conhl not be brought within its provisions. Mr. GALLAViiUF.it thought that a good thing came never too late, and he would vote for leave to bring in the bill. Mr. Kmvi! said that the only objoclivn he had to the motion was the latPin-fs of the session. It would be a difficult thing- to get the members of the committee together, and it was desirable that a question of this important character should lie consider, d with duo deliberation. He did not thin!: any harm would result from Ui" postponement of the question for a few months. There would be on any such bill considerable difference not only <•!' opinion, but of l'a-Hng, which would promote discussion. Me would not b<: understood as sucking to oppeso the ni'-tlfii lo brin-: in a bill. Certainly not: but he thought that all fhe matters comprised in the question of education should bo duly weighed Mr. Kim! b"cli')v..-d that the lateness of the session was not n bar to a billot , th-.- kind. His object, however, was, as an independent number, to supply an omission mndo bv thu Government.

Lcavo was gi.en to brirm: in the bill. On the motion oi' ~Mr. Ktxu the bill wua read a firal- time, and ordered to Ixi printed. >Ir. King moved tlic names of tin; following gentlemen to bi! the commitU'.i: —Messrs. C'adinnn, .T. O'Kfill, U'yiin, Kowo, Choescinan, Kewmc.n, lioss, McOee, Shdehan, and Gal!aua;lit'r. Mr. Siirkhan moved that the name of Mr. Coolahan should bo addt-d to the list of the Select Committee.

Mr. J. O'Neill sail that he had thought the committee was too numerous at the same timu he would support the addition of Lao name of Mr. Coolahan, In caU3O Kiuch of the would turn, upon the question of .-peeif>.i inspector. Hi.- (Mr. U'Naill) tboua-ht without a special inspector tlio bill, so for :i« it couoernod a ven- ir t ri{C swlioii oi." Christians, would ha \ irtually inopc-rctivo. Mr. Wvnx t-uid that lio would propose that, his name should bo omitted. It was a s-übii-ct of gn-nt lifilicucy. }Fo u-.s afraid )io would not ho ahlc to give thn snrviccs whic- tho i:rporfcuicti of thu aiibjci't would require, tic -would movo Ihct the nuciu of Mr. CuouiHan should be added.

The motion for the omission of Mr. Wynn's name was negatived ; that for the addition of Mr. Coolanaa. was carried. WAHIOA, ROAD Bill. Mr. Kis-e move J •' That tho report of the Wairo* Road Bill be adopted." The motion was carried. TIIE LATE JOHN THOMAS. Mr. Kixo to move. " That the Council do resolro itself into a committee of the whole, with, a, Tiew of considering the following resolutions : " That ilie Council aro of opinion that the late John Thomas laboured under many difficulties in proceeding with tho contract for backs entered into by him for the new Lunatic Asylum, and l-ecom-mom! tliat ono-half of the sum deducted by the Provincial Government in consequence of the contract not being completed within the time mentioned in the specification, be invested by his Honor the superintendent in trust lor the benefit of the widow and children of tho late John Thomas, interest >obe paid quarterly, and that an address be presented to hi* Honor the Superintendent requesting him to placei on the additional estimates of expenditure the eum. I of two hundred and lifty pounds for such purpose." In order to obriute prolonged disscusion, he (Mr. King) would ask that the first two lines be struck out. and that the Council should not go into Committee. The unfortunate subject of the resolutions had aince decetued. He had certainly been induced to hope that ho would be oxempted from military duty. The deceased had been led into difficulties bjthis contract. It was not u question of charity, but ff equity, that the Council was asked to decide. The deceased was u man of strict integrity, and owing to this unfortunate contract the deceased had left a wife and family pennyless. Mr. Caulkton said tho Government would not oppose the motion. The question was one that must enter into the serious consideration, of tho Superintendent. 'J here might be tamo difficulty in taking the action desired, but lie himself did not see any in- | snperable diUiculty, it was possible that if tho Superintendent should lind that everything was right and straight forward, ho might favorably consider the question-

Mr. Co.'Lailan- s.'.id the deceased was n man of the greatest probity.

Mr. Foley conld cot vote for the resolution. Hβ (lid Jiot see that the Provincial Council or Government, could be trustees to all tho widows and families of dec-eased contractors that miglit come before theCo-neil. He thought tho admission of any suck claim was vicious. Mr. C-ahlktox said thu Superintendent would not acknowledge any claim. Mr. \V\nx said that tho Government should hare bron prepared to t?ay what action they would take in Hitch a mo;isuro. It was useless to tell tho Council that tho Superintendent would take the matter into consideration. "What was his view of the matter? I hat was what tlm Council wanted to know. As to tho other part of tf e questior.—either tliere was a claim or there was not. If there were no claim, tbea tun Council should not ask for money as a charitable institution. Ifthoro was a claim it should be paid, and then supposing it to bo paid what right had they to divert the money firm tho creditors who enabled deceased to cany the contract out so far. He could not agree with tho hon. gentleman who introduced the motion. He hclioved that uni'oitunato man xt-ps tin; victim of tho failure of tho Superintendent (o obtain exemption, lie (Mr. Wynn) declared thathf was present, and if the Superintendent denied it b> would say to the Superintendent it was not true, when he was af-kea by dtceised to obtain ciemption. and the Superintendent replied that ho would get exemption for deceased. Nor did tho Superintendent do his best, for he got exemption for others. The only difficulty was, he (Sir. Wjnn) did not see how the disposal of the money conld bo interfered with. He would move an amendment to the effect that the money should be paid to tho personal representative of deceased. Mr. Cabmjton said he should not vote for the amendment, as it implied a claim. Tho resolution of the hon. member (MY. King) was very different. Put upon that ground, the deceased might receive the benefit of (he doubt. For himeelr', ho would be glad to see the money given to the widow. Mr. ItowK would also oppose the amendment. 'I he question was actually Deforo tho Council, the examination of the witnesses had been suspended by the decease of tho claimant, and the main question was undecided. The Council had an opportunity of cxeivising their better let-lings. Had the question proceeded, he would have voted againtt tho claim. He thought that the terms of contracts should be adhered to on both sides, and for differences there was a proper tribunal, but on the present occasion he did not ieel at liberty to vote against the present motion. Mr. J. O'lS t eill said that if Mr. Howe would have voted against the claim, he could not Bee how ho could to!c for these resolutions. Why if he could not have voted for the payment to John Thomas when living, he should vote payment to hie widow when dead. It might appear ungracious to vote agi-.inst a claim of charity, but he muefc do what he considered his duty and vote against the motion. Mr. frKiEX thought that the time was come when Government and Council should insist upon rigid enforcement of contracts. The matter came before the Council as a mutter of private grievance. Hβ ihouuht the precedent that would bo set would be injurious. The Council should not be considered trustees for digressed persons. Tliere might alto elnima to charity be advanced out of every contract of (lie liintl, and even out of this one. Should this motion bi> carried it might come to pass that there would have to be maintained a set of clerks and other ollieers for investigating these applications.

ilr. Kim; said ihat lit , only wished that money to bo invested in trust. it appeared to liiin that some lion, gentleman hud been affected with the nightinure that afternoon. The Council would not be K'ointr out. of their way in giving this reimbursement • o the widow. The necessity might ceaso at any time, either in eonsecmehce oi' the widow marrying a second time or because of improper conduct. The amendment of Mr. Wynn was put and negatived. The resolutions were carried upon a. division. Ayes, 7 ; noes, o. LANDS rrRCIIASEII. 31 r. C.ikletox laid on the tulilo a list of purchases concluded under tho " Empowering Act of 1564." Mr. Wys>\ in moving •' Thar un "ddrcss bo presented U> his Honor tlie Superintendent requesting him to furnish this Council with a return show ing the payment made, on account of the purchase of naiive lands under the Empowering Act. of last session, the names of the bloetcs purchased, or agreed to be purchased, and the Klectorai districts in which. such blocks arc situated," enid that tho return did not comply with the requisition of tho motion. It did not say where tho lands were situated, and the names of tho blocks. j\lr. Carleton said he waß not able to compile- then a list of the lands agreed to be purchased. He would not withdraw his motion. OAMi: LAW. Mr. Wys>\ to move, ■' For loav.? to bring in a bill to authorise the issue of licenses to persons to shoot birds, and /or other purposes. This motion was postponed. > ntewart's point rtmi. Mr. Allan nuA-erl, "That an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent requesting him at his eailius* convenience to have the Government Jetty at Stewart's Point repaired ', amended), to bo a chargo on the vote for contingencies." JO. "TCowEsaid ho did not know where Stewart's Point was. Mr. Wynn said that. Stewart's Point was a point 'tretehinn into Sh >al Bay. A pier had been put up by the Oovernment, and that being so, ought (o bo kept in repair. Tho cost of repair would be only a few pounds. Mr. O'N'eiw, snid the cost would ho from three to four pounds. Indeed, if the Government would only send ovor their own carpenter with a little timber, he could repair the whole thing in a fe-w days. Dr. Pollk.v did not, object to tho vote, but it set a precedent which would authorise- tho appropriation by the Council of coming ncies. It was a precedent that might bo attended with inconvenience. OKEnr/XGA IMPUOVEMENTS BILL. 3lr. CrAiXAronaß moved " That tho report of the Select Committee, ou the Onohuugn Improvements Bill I; , 'ikea into consideration when 3uch bill is in coiuiji: ■■- He moved that tbo biil be made »n order c: :ao duy for to-morrow (tiiia day). 'volicc at oxEirry&A. Mr. !M'Gee iiiOved, " That an address be presented to liii Honor the Superintendent requesting him <• 1. Io aulhoriso the app.i!it:r.e:it of the seniei constabl- at. Oaehung.i as ir. of that I polico s(a!ion ; - i. To givo direetior.s l'oi- patting t'u Court- ' hone-; ia u tborougK sfato of repair, inOludiag tie I painting of flio building."

"Mr. Fotxr oppoeod fiio rnotnm txxaesem'fcis -opinion it interfered -with the dieeipline oFthe polioe and the authority of the Commissioner. Ho dU not aeo how the Superintendent could make a sergeant; •-iny recommendation should come from the Commissioner. Hβ agreed with the motion as related to tho Court house. Mr. Skken thought the terms of the first resolution ■were too dictatorial. Ho agreed that recommendahons of that kind shonld come from the Commissioner of Police. He would move an amendment to tho effect, of requesting the Superintendent to authorize tho appointment of a eexgoant. Tho Court house ■was a disgrace. Mr. McGeb said tho cost of repairs would be about £30. The resolutions of Mr. McGee wore carried. The Council adjourned at half past six o'clock. The Council resumed at twenty minutes te seven o'closk. MESSAGE 98—COLONEL KENNY'S CLAIM. Mr. Wvyjf moved that his Honor's message 98 should be taken into consideration. He said that in the early part of tho evening he had been accused of desiring to impede public businass, but his real object wag to prevent 400 acres of land being given away to a person having not tho slightest claim, and for some object which he (Mr. Wynn) could not suggest. When he (Mr Wy nn) had the honour of being the law adviser, he was told there was gome engagement or ngreement under which Col. Kenny claimed. He (tho hon. Sir. Wynn) could find no evidence of any specific engagement. He found, however, that there had been some disposition to give the lard to Colonel Kenny for some reason or other. There wen , two Acts known p.s the Waste Lands Acts, one of the Council, and ono passed by the General Assembly of which terrr.e -were peculiar. The General Govenimpnt had sent a request for a land order. If the Governor had delegated his power to tho Superintendent, then the Superintendent was alone responsible. Mr. Fenton said that recognition of a claim by tho General Government was equivalent to a land order. In that sense the General Government might give away nil the lands of the province. (Mr. Wynn went at some length throrgh the clauses of "the Waste Land Act, 1858, snd the history of the question). As for Colonel Kenny 'ho had no clwim upon tho sympathy of the Council. He had over and over again insulted the Council, and yet he camo Hkf> a beggar to ask a grant of land of the very people whom he had persistently insulted. He (Mr. Wynn) moved— 1. " That this Council ia of opinion that Col. Kenny is not entitled to select land according to the application made by the General Government, and this Council respectfully requeets his Honor the Superintendent to protest on behalf of the Province against' the granting the land applied for by Colonelßnnv. 2. " That Colonel Kenny's claim having been referred by the General Government to the Provincial Government, it is quite competent for the Superintendent ond the Pvovincial Council to protest against such claim, and to do all in their power to ensure its rejection 3- 'That an address be preseuted to hifi Honor forw arc ]ing the foregoing res lutinns." Air. King said that Colonel Kenny was the last man that should have come to the Council for a grant of land. Tho manner in which the pensioners had been treated was well known. It was known that the ofheers had dfiprived the pensioners of the land to wl,ich,-they were entitled. Colonel Kenny had refused to attend the Council when asked to"<nvo evidence in respect to these pensioner. If he had dealt justly by them would he have refused to appear before the Council? He refused abso-lutely-first, because he was a military officerand secondly because he was a member of the Legislative Corned He (Mr. King) did not speak of the conduct of Col. Kenny, lest it should be supposed that difference of opinion upon other matters influenced him But were Colonel Kerny present he could speak ot instances of downright cru.lty practised towards We pensioners who came out Tinder him Jlany of theso pensioners were treated like slaves.' Mr. Warner, n fhst-rate authority, hsd expressed nn opinion that Colonel Kenny had not the shadow of a c;aim.

J j r " RAUiro,I B» said he would endorse every *oi& uttered by Mr. King. Hβ never knew a more nenitl<fs officer than Colonel Kenny. He know a ■poor man named Northwick, who "had served hiß seven years. All that was wanted was a certificate Jrom Colonel Kenny, who refused it. Mr.Bow.z asked the head of the Executive whether he would state to the Council the ground of Colonel Kenny s ckim. Mr. Foley said that Colonel Kenny had not (he Bluntest claim. _ It -was well known that the officers had taken the picfc and choice of the land laid out for the pensioner*, and left the latter with what was Ha( j the proposition been to mak ColonelKenny disgorge the proceeds of land which ne nad improperly taken he would vote for it. Onlv the other day he had sold a hlock of land for £3000 He ought to he very well satisfied. Mr. Skeej. said" that Colonel Kenny had no claim, either legal or incidental. The Council he thought, would be pretty unanimous in this matter Mr.CAET.ETOS said if *he resolution pushed, the c-ouncil would be committed to a point. Thev would follow t,p the resolution by an address, perhaps wking 6s. Sd. a piece. So far aete {Mr. Carieton) concerned, durinfi his term of office the question had never been raised, and he was ignorant of the legal status of the question. The Council might rest assured the question would be decided on it ß merits. VV nether the law was good, bad, or indifferent, the superintendent would have to obey it. Hβ (Mr Carieton) thought Mr. Wynn peculiarly managed on point, of law, to be on the wrong side. He EuMf th r° D) D 0 °P iDion on the ™tter. Unt if the General Government state that there is on engagement between them and Colonel Kenny, and if that bo so, they would be obliged to comply with it. He (Mr. Carieton) would not make himself accessory to a breach of faith. The Superintendent °* *° «**£ «* «* s , "Mr. Wish explained the law of the case as it anpeared to him. There was no of I contract or engagement. Every pensioner in the province would be entitled to mont™an he of ArV C^ onel .penny's title was good. In the case WII lemaa i ß daim w . aa g° od . buthis predecesfore nad given an adverse opinion, and he (Mr. Wvnn) was obljged to go into the Supremo Court against h£ own opinions, and arguo against what he felt to be a claim C!am V ..T ~8 Chief JMtioe decided aga the claim and therefore it was ruled that his (Mr £Jnn b) personal opinion was wrong, let Colonel Mr nt &fr° -°l tho S T° mD same way a JJlr. \\ arwick was driven there The resolution was carried on the voices. Mr. ia-.v called for a division. Mr. Cauleto.v said ho would decline to vote The reeoluboa was announced as carried ne,n. con rr-, „ , ASDITIONAI, EUTIMATES. K-o e in C th U e n char lV<!ditSelf hito C **• Mr. Carxeton proposed that the Council should £30f T US » W« Honor's mestgl Sett> t r ° f the road t0 Albertland -ett .ement, either by Mahurangi and the Otea Oarned. Eoad r-pairs, £ICOO. Mangawai Breakwater, £450. Dr. Poiien thought it was a farce, ar-ahsoluto *Wd.ty to be voting mrmey when -; t l- v *t the Council had already voted move inumy .or expenditure than revenue would amount to Ho appealed to the head of the Executive S«y whether that was not so. ' Mr. Cj.iii.etov said it vns so. They were, however the reccminendations of the Council. The h on gentleman Dr. Pollen himself either wa» absent w if he were present, did not dissent from th™ recommendations. e

Mr. Foley said the conversation had let in a novr light on the subject. They were voting awav mon° v when it appeared they had no money to vote. The v might as well go home at once. There had not be, n upwards of £20,000 voted for public wks and there were engineers, architects, surveyors, and officers inspectors worked to death doing nothing. Mr. Cableton said that the meseages in renlv to recommendations by the Council simply complied with the wishes of the Council. The votes to which thfc- r. frrred were simply the fancy votes of honorable m n W He (Mr. Carleton) had often warned hon. taomhcrs of the consequence of sendicg up theso addresses. K<, me savings would bemad,;, perhaps out of particular iternF, and in that case thero roielit be moans of currying on some of the other works recommended by (lie Council. The Superintendent was most anxious to conciliate the Council in every reasonable way, and a 3 far as he possibly could ho would comply with their wishes. Sir. Cal)jiak, Mr. Coolahan, and Mr. Wynv having spoken, the items were postponed. ±M House wag counted out at 9o'olocfc