General Assembly of New Zealand.
[by our own reporter.] o
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. MONDAY, JULY 14X0, 1862.
The Members of the Legislative Council met to-day at two o'clock. The House was unusually full and many of the ladies and gentlemen of Wellington were present. At two o'clock His Excellency Sir/ George Grey entered the Legislative Council in f'u!! uniform, attended by the Hon. Mr. Fox, Colon'al Secretary, Sir M. Macgregor, Maior Dwycr, and Mr. Layard, Private Secretary, and was received by the Assemblage standing. His Excellency having taken bis seat in the Speaker's chair, a message was sent to the House of Kepresentatives, summoning them to attend in the Legislative Counc r Chamber. The Speaker of the other House then entered, followed by the Members of the House of Representatives, when His Excellency> proceeded very .emphatically to read the SPEECH. HONORABLE GENTLEMEN OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, — and Gentlemen op the House of Representative?,— 1. Since the last Session of the Generally Assembly a great in the death of her illustrious Consort Prince Albert, has befallen Her Most Gracious Majesty. This sad event has touched the heart of Her people in every part of Her dominions. I take this the earliest public opportunity of expressing that deep and respectful sympathy for Her Majesty which I am well aware is shared by the inhabitants of New Zealand, and which has been fully shewn by the numerous addresses of condolence which have already been transmitted to Her Majesty.
2. 1 have great satisfaction in meeting for the first time since my return to this Colony, the General Assembly, which is so important a branch of those institutions of self government which have been bestowed upon it by the Imperial Parliament. During my absence from the Colony I have watched with deep interest the working of those institutions, and on my return have been much gratified by witnessing the result. The progress of the Colony as a whole appears to have been steady and rapid ; settlements which at the period of my leaving, were in their earliest infancy, have grown into populous, wealthy and flourishing Provinces, exhibiting a healthy vitality which appears attributable in no small degree to the large amount of local self government which forms so prominent an element in the Constitution of the Colony.
3. But while there is so much mom for congratulation to be found in the general progress of the Colony, the unsatisfactory relations which have grown up between a portion of iheMaoii race anil the Government area source of deep regret, in the attempt which it is my duty to make to restore the friendly relations which formerly existed, my hope of success rests mainly (under Divine Providence) on the co-operation and support which I may receive from the Colonists, and the resources you may place at my disposal. It is an arduous task, only to be effected by earnest and persevering exertion, made in the spirit which becomes a great and civilized naiioti in its dealings with a people but partLlly reel, lined lVom barbarism, and very jm-
perfectly enlightened. Ac fne same time lam not unmindful of what is due to the European population, which, relying on well knowu treaties and guarantees, has made this country its adopted home, and is entitled to expect that the progress of colonization shall not be unnecessarily or improperly obstructed. 4. Documents will be laid before you which will shew you the character of some of the institutions by which I hope to confirm the attachment to the Government of those Native tribes which have hitherto continued friendly, to restoie the confidence of those which have unhappily alienated, and gradually to elevate the race to a higher level of civilization. Some progress, necessarily limited by circumstances and by the extent of theresources at my disposal, has already been made in the introduction of those institutions. How far this has been done, and what success has hitherto attended it, you will learn from the Reports of the Civil Commissioners and Resident Magistrates, who have been engaged in the work, and which will be laid before vou.
5. In framing the Institutions re'erred to, you will observe that 1 have endeavoured to avail myself as far as possible of the machinery provided bj certain Acts passed by you in your Session of llfio, and other exist.u» taws of the Colony It is desirable however, that the powers conferred by those Acts should be in some respects enlarged, and Bills will be laid before you for that purpose. 1 have found al»o that great impediments ex-st in the way of enabling tiie Natives to deal with their Land, and particularly in the administration of Native Reserves, the individualization of Naive ikie and ;h.> issue of Crown Gr.iins to Natives. Hills will bj laid befoi ' you which have for their object the removal of the impedi-
ments referred to, and the amendment in several particulars, of the exis;ing law on those subjects. G. I have hitherto had no occasion, and hope that 1 shall have none hereafter, to employ the Military Forces in any active field operations. Shortly after my arrival in this Colony however, I became aware that the Southern frontier of the settled portion ot the Province Auckland was entirely unprovided with a line of defence against the quarter from which, in c.isc of further insurrection, an attack was most likely to be made, and that the absence of roads w P uld render it impossible to move Troops further inland tlun 13 or -2t> miles from the Town of Auckland, so that insurgents might have approached within that distance of the Se„t of Government, and the population of a part of the Province been involved in destruction and ruiii. I therefore, lost no time i n requesting the Officer commanding Her Majesty's Forces to employ a portion of the Troops under his command in completing, to the banks of the VVaikato River, the great Southern Trunk Road. That officer responded to my request with the g:ea;est promptitude. The works were commenced in January ; .i>d a metalled road is now all but completed to the bauks of the Waikato, where a Military Post is established commanding that River, and presenting a barrier to any hostile attempt against Auckland fiom that quarter. I gladly avail myself of this opportunity of expressing my thanks to the officers and men who have been so employed, and who have continued their operations to a far advanced period of an unusually severe ami rainy season. At Taranaki works of a similar class have been commenced by the Militia, a"d I hope shortly to undertake operations of the same character in other districts. These works, while greatly contributing to the security of the settlements, will largely and permanently benefit them in other respects. Their construction will necessarily involve a considerable outlay, and a Bill will be laid before the House of Representatives, by wh ch it will be proposed to authorise the Government to raise a Loan not exceeding £1(10,000 for the purpose of meeting the necessary outlay. It is proposed to charge this Loan on the Nor hern Island, and ultimately to allocate it proportionally to the several Provinces in which it may be expended. 7. Her Majesty's Government has repeatedly expressed its anxious desire to learn that the Colony has taken effective s'eps towards local self-defence by the creation of a Militia Force. It is extremely desirable that greater preparation should be made in that particular. To enable this to be done a Bill will he laid before you for the better organisation of Militia and Volunteer forces, and it is hoped that the encouragement which it is proposed to give to the latter may result in the increased strength and efficiency of such corps. I cannot conclude this subject without expressing my thanks to the Auckland Volunteer Corps which lately took the garrison duty of that Province, thus enabling a considerably larger number of troops to be employed in the construction of the Military road than could have otherwUe been detached for that duty. 8. The rapid growth of the settlements in the Middle Island, ami the sudden development of their resources, arisine; in a great degree from the discovery of gold, and other mineral wealth, will probably have suggested to you the expediency of making some further provision for the administration of the General Government in that island. I trust also that the arrangements which have lately been made for the increase of the Steam Postal Service between the Northern and Middle Islands will be found greatly to les>en the inconvenience which has hitherto, no doubt, existed. The late unfortunate loss of the White Swan will, I trust, not involve more than a very temporary and partial derangement of this service. I cannot, however, allude to that event without expressing the gratitude which is due to Almighty God for the preservation of so many valuable lives as were in peril on that occasion ; aud also the deep sense which is entertained by my Government of the very great kindness and hospitality which were exercised towards the shipwrecked persons by Mr. John Moore, the rosident proprietor of the station near to which the wreck occurred. Gkntlkmkn of the House ok Representatives,—
.9. The Estimates for the financial year wi'l be laid before you without delay. They have been framed- in the same spirit of economy as I trust you will find has directed the expenditure of the funds placed at the disposal of the Government by your last Appropriation Act.
It is my duty to call your attention to the correspondence which has taken place between Her Majesty's Government and the Colonial Government, relative to the cost of the Military operations which have taken place since the outbreak at Taranaki ; and 1 have to request that you will enable me to state to Her Majesty's Government what proportion of the cost the Colony will be prepared to take upon itself. Honorable Gentlemen op the Legislative Council,— and
Gentlemen op the House of Representatives,— 10. The Census which was taken on the 16th day of December in the year 18G1, is in course of complication, and will very shortly be published. In the meantime a full abstract of all the most important returns will be laid before you. A comparison of this Census with that of]Bs!i will be found to exhibit a most satisfactory result, 11. In conclusion, I earnestly hope that the Supreme Ruler of the World, who controls and directs all human events, may so inspire your counsels with wisdom, and so support me in the execution of my duty, that our joint efforts to secure the peace and advancement of this country may be crowned with success.
The Speaker and members t he of House of Representatives having retired, the Speaker read the accustomed prayer, and then laid on the table some correspondence from t'.ie Colonial Secretary, and read a proclamation authorising him to miminisler the oath of allegiance to members. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the DespatcliPS relative to the increase of the number of members of the Legislative Council be read by the Clerk.
Tlic correspondence between His Excellency ihe Governor and : lio Secretary of Slate for the Colonies was the read, with a letter lrom the Governor to the Speaker of the Council, informing him that. John Anderson Gilfril.m Esq., of Auckland, Ilobert Stokes, Esq., of Wellington, arid H.llusseii, Esq., of llawke's Bay. had been appointed members of the Legislative Council. Mr. STOKES was then introduced by the Attor« nrv-Geneval and took the oath? and his scat. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL then laid on the tabic the following papers,— Papers relative to Steam Postal Service, Sir George Grey's Native Plan of Government. Mr. Buller's further Report of the Kaiapoi District. Report of the State of the Natives. Sir George Grey's Commission. Third Report on the Postal Service of New Zealand IUCI antl 13G2, by the Postmaster-Genera'. Despatch transmitting the Imperial Statute amending the Passenger Act, 1855. Further Papers relative to Desertion from Ships of War. Report of the Board of Enquiry. Abstract and Summary Tables of results of the Census of New Zealand. Native Affairs, Desp.vchcs from the Secretary of State and the Governors of New Zealand. Native Addresses of Welcome to Sir G. Grey. Native Schools, Report of Inspectors. Mr. Bullet's final Report on the partition and individual. ization of the Kaiapoi District. Miscellaneous Repoit3 respecting the Maori Runanga, Cattle Trespass, &c, &c. Report of the state of the Natives in various Districts. Index to the Statute Law of New Zealand. Further papers relative to disallowance'of Provincial Bills. Papers relative to the Land Registry Act. Papers relative to Acts of the General Assembly. Papers relative to the organization of the Militia. Further Papers relative to Militia and Naval allowances. Papers relative to increasing the number of Members of the Legistative Council. Tabular Schedule of the Acts and Ordinances of the Provincial Councils of New Zealand. Petition to Her Majesty from the Provincial Council of Auckland, praying for a separate Government for the Province. Papers relative to the appointment of Judges of the Supreme Court of New Zealand. Statement shewing the Sales effected of the loan of £150,000. Report of the Board of Enquiry as to the expediency of establishing a Government Priming Office. Return of the number of Acres of Waste Land sold or otherwise disposed off in the various Provinces—lß(ll. ' On the motion of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL the Council adjourned till Tuesday. HOUSE OF EEPEESENTATIVES. On Wednesday, July 9th, and Thursday, 10th, owing to the non-arrival of His Excellency, the business of the House could not be proceeded with. On Friday the House assembled at twelve o'clock, the Speaker and 19 members being present. Prayers having been read, Mr. FOX moved that the House adjourn till Monday at twelve. Mr. O'NEILL suggested that, a doubt having arisen in the minds of many hon. members that they could not legally meet there for business, it would be well that such "a doubt should be set at rest, by the Ministry expressing their opinion on the question. If the idea were correct, hon. members hhd better return at once to their homes and avocations, rather thau remain wasting their time at Cook's Straits. The SPEAKER said he had taken every means to ascertain what was the proper course the House should adopt to place itself in the best position to commence business with the leasi delay, and to cause members as little inconvenience as possible. After mature consideration, the Speaker o: the Legislative Council and hLnselt' were of opinion that, until the Governor hatt formally addressed these Houses, i: would be irregular for them to proceed to any business; and the only motion which he conceived himself authorized to pus from the chair, was a formal motion for adjournment, which would hardly be considered as business. He then read a passage from May, on which they had chieiiy relied in coming to this conclusion. The motion for adjournment till Monday was then put and carried. MONDAY, JULY 14th, 1862. The House of Representatives met at noon this day pursuant to adjournment. Present, the Speaker and 25 members. , , . . The SPEAKER infoimicd the House that hchad received a letter from the Colonial Secretary sofhee, which he read to the effect that the Governor having arrived at Wellington. His Excellency would address the Houses of the General .Assembly this day, as two p.m. O.i the motion of Mr. ioX, the House then adjourned till quarter to v,\o o'clock, when they again
assembled, and at two were, summoned to attend His Excellency in the Legislative Council. The ceremony being: over, they returned to their own Chamber, and proceeded to business. NEAV MEMBERS. The SPEAKER read a letter received from the Colonial Secretary, enclosing a list ot' members elected since last session. The following gentlemen then took the oaths and their seats: —J. E. Fitzgerald, for the district of Ellesraere, Canterbury; T.B. Gillies, for tho districtof Bruce, Otago; W. S. Moorhouse, Esq., for the district of Hcathcote, Canterbury; Major Richardson, for the town of Dunedin; L N. Watt, Esq., ior the town of New Plymouth; and James Williamson, Esq., for tlie city of Auckland, West. NATC-tALIZATIOX BILL. Mr. FOX moved the first reading of tho Naturalization Bill. Bill read a first time. the governor's speech. A cony of His Excellency's speech was read to the House by Mr. Speaker. Ordered to be primed". Mr. FiTZHERBERT gave notice that on Wednesday, July 16th, he should move an address in reply to His Excellency's speech. Several other notices of motion were also given. VJ.VERC Mr. FOX laid on the table the papers which he had previously placed before the House in an informal manner, together with the following:— Additional instructions under His Exce v ency's Commission relative to iticre; sing the number of members in the Legislative Council. Papers relative to the Organization of Militia. Mr. CROSBIE WARD "and Mr. WOOD also kid on the table formally the papers they had placed before the House on the previous Monday. Ordered that the papers now laid on the table be printed. MESSAGE FROM HIS EXCELLENCE Message No. 1 was received and read by the Speaker, enclosing a copy of His Excellency's Commisiori. together with the Royal Instructions accompanying it.—Ordered to be printed. THE MASJKATJ lIAIiROTJ.t. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON wished to be permitted, without notice, to ask the Hon. Co'onial Treasurer whether it was the intention of the Government to make provision on the estimates for buoying the Southern channel at the entrance to the Manukau. He believed that such was the intention; but his object in putting the question at that time was, that an opportunity might be given to have it publicly stated before the Worsley left. Mr. WOOD replied, that it was the intention of the Government to place a sum of money on the estimates for that purpose. COLONIAL OFFICE DESPATCHES. Mr. STAFFORD inquired when the House might he expected to have before them the despatches by the April Mail, from the Colonial Office. It would be satisfactory to the House to be informed whether anything further had been received with reference to the relations between the Governor and Ministry on Native questions. Mr. FOX replied that he was not aware of any despatch of importance, but what had already been laid before the House, or would be in a few days, some few documents being not yet before them in consequence of the unfortunate loss of the White Swan; but on the subject to which the hon. member" alluded, he did not think any importaut despatch had been receive' i. Oil the motion of Mr. FOX, the House then adjourned till Wednesday. WEDNESDAY, JULY 16th, 1862. The SPEAKER took the Chair at 5 o'clock. MINUTES. The Clerk read the M"iutcs of the preceding sitting day. i\ir. CARLELON objected to their being signed in their present form. The correct form of their proceedings Was simply this, that the Speaker took the chair at a certain hour, read prayers and retired from the chair by general consent, without question put, till the Governor had arrived, and then at any time afterwards, when it was intimated that His Excellency was prepared to address them, the Speaker should take the chair again and proceed with business as though it were all one sitting". Their adjourning from day to day was, he argued, altogether null; the Speaker had no power to put the question, for if they could adjourn at all they might do so for a mouth or more and so baulk the Governor of addressing them. The minutes were therefore informal, and lest they should be drawn into a precedent, the House should, he thought, direct them to be altered, or refer them to the Standing Orders Committee with that view. The question being: put, that the Speaker sign the minutes, it passed in tlie affirmative. PETITIONS. Mr. A. J. RICHMOND presented a petition from the Nelson Board of Works. Petition received. Mr. T. RUSSELL presented a petition from a number of inhabitants of the Province of Hawke's Bay, having reference to Mr. Colenso's case, and praying for an investigation before a Committee of the House as to the operation of the Civil Commissioners Coutt where Europeans are concerned. Petition read and received. PAPERS. The following papers were laid ou the table by Ministers: Return of all European and Native Officers appointed to the various Districts by Orders in Council—shewing the names, officers and salaries. Papers relative to the purchase of the Coromandel Gold Fields. Return of the number of Militia, Volunteers, &c, in the Colony on the 30th June, 1862. Further papers relative to disallowance of Provincial Bills. Further papers relative to military defenco (military road parties at Taranaki). * Despatches and correspondence relative to the legality of the " New Provinces Act, 1858." Papers relative to the re-organization of the Tsranaki Militia. Papers relative to the re-organization of the Wanganui Militia
Further Papers relative to the apportionment of the public debt of the Provinces of Wellington and HawNe's Bay (in continuation of Papers presented on the 18th June, 1861). Further Papers relative to Governor Sir George Grey's plan of Native Government. Commissioners' Reports :—Mongonui, Taupo, East Cape, Pay of Plenty, Bay of Islands. Return of Officers in the Service of the General Government of New Zealand. Return of Officers in the service of the Provincial Governments of New Zealand. MILITARY DEFENCE COMMITTEE. Mr. DILLON BELL said he wished to consult the Speaker as to what course he ought to take with reference to the minutes of the Secret Committee of Military Defence committed to his charge at the close of last session. The SPEAKER said that it appeared to him that as the Committee was a joint Committee of both Houses, the Legislative Council should in the first place be consulted with. milks' franchise. Mr. GILLIES asked the Ministry, whether it was tlie intention to propose to this House any amendment of (he .Miners' Franchise Act, 1860. He put these questions from no desire to put embarrassing questions, but to direct attention to certain subjects of great importance to be attended to in the course of the session and so that if Ministers were not prepared to take ac'.ion independent members might. The Hon. Air. FOX replied that the Government were anxious to give the subject their best consideration and had already held some communication upon it with the Superintendent of Otago and the hon. member himself. They would as early as possible propose some measure on the subject to the House. Mr. GILLIES further asked Ministers whether it was their attention to introduce any measure for in'creasin" the number of Representatives of the Province of Otngo in this House, or otherwise for redistributing the representation somewhat more in accordance with the present population and interests of the resDPCtive Provinces. The Hon. Mr. FOX replied that the Government were prepared to recognise the claim-; of Ot3go to an increase in the numbe.' of its members, if it could be done without disturbing the relative proportions of the other Provinces. This question being dependent on the when the Government had made up its mind upon that, they would decide what was necessarry with repaid to the present question. DEATH OF T.IE PRINCE CONSORT. The Hon. Mr. FOX in moving the following Address to Her .Majesty said he was satisfied he should best be cnnsuliin" the feelings of the House by saying as little as possible on the .subject. It could not be the desire of the House to be. instrumental in reviving that deep sorrow in Her Majesty's breast, but at the sama tune it would be unbecoming in this her youngest and
most remote Colony, to let this occasion pass witnouc expressing those sentiments of heartfelt sympathy which every inhabitant of the Colony must necessarily feel inHer Majesty's grief. ; Mr. BELL seconded the motion. He thought the hon. mover had shewn a right appreciation of thofeelings of every one there in refraining from dwelling on a topic which must cause to every subject ths greatest sorrow. Ho should follow the hon. member a example, merely expressing his own hope that when* Her Majesty received this tribute of affectionate sympathy frcm tho most distant portion of her dominions, she might realize perhaps more 6trongly than badyet been brought before her, that there was no portionof her dominion, however remote, [in which the virtues of the late Prince Albert and her own irreparable loss had not been felt with as great sympathy as in that poitiou in which she herself resided. The Address, of which the following is a copy, was then put and carried unanimously. Most Gkacious Sovereign,— We your Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, the House of Representatives of New Zealand in Parliament assembled, humbly take the first opportunity of Offering to your Majesty our sincere condolence on the afflicting dispensation of Providence with which your Majesty and the British Empire have been visited, in the death of His Eoyal Highness the Prince Consort. We beg most respectfully to assure your Majesty of our heartfelt participation in thegeneral feeling of sympathy with your Majesty under this calamitous bereavement. We would also express the deep sense entertained by us of tho irreparable loss which the Empire has sustained in the death of a Prince, whose tender attachment to your Majesty, eminent virtues and high attainments, —unceasingly devoted to the best interests of all classes of your Majesty's subjects,—won for him general love and admiration, and will cause his name ever to be held in greatful and affectionate remembrance. We bave not failed to offer up our earnest prayers to Almigbty God that He will comfort and sustain your Majesty under this heavy affliction, and that we may long enjoy the blessings of a reign with which the welfare and happiness of all your Majesty's dominions are so intimately associated. On the motion of Mr. FOX, ordered that an address be presented to His Excellency, requesting him to forward the above address to Her Majesty. PRIVATE BILLS COMMITTEE. Mr. CARLETOiV moved that Mr. Russell, Mr. Gillies, and the Chairman of Committees be appointed members of the joint Committee of both Houses upon Private Pills. Carried. STANDING ORDERS ON rRIVATE BILLS COMMITTEE. _ Mr. CARLETON moved that Mr. Speaker, Mr. Brandon, and the Chairman of Committees be appointed members of the joint Committee of both Houses upon Standing Orders concerning Private Bills. Carried. STANDING OR»EKS COMMITTEE. Mr. CARLETON moved that a Select Committee on Standing Orders be appointed. Committee to constat of the Hon. Mr. Fox, Mr. Brandon, Mr. Domett. Mr. Gillies, Mr. Russell, and Mr. Cracroft Wilson, C.B. Carried. HOUSE COMMITTEE. Mr. CRACROFT WILSON, C.8., moved that a House Committee be appointed for the Session, with power to confer with any similar Committee of the .Legislative Council, with a view to promote the convenience and comfort of members of both Houses, to consist of Mr. Domett, Mr. Fitzherbert, Mr. Carter, Mr. Dillon Bell, and Hon. Mr. Henderson. Carried. CROWN GRANTS BILL. The Hon. Mr. CROSBIE WARD moved for leave to introduce a Bill to facilitate the preparation and issue of Crown Grants. Leave granted, Bill read a first time, ordered to be printed and read a second time on Friday. CROWN LVNDS COMMISSIONERS* TOWERS BILL. The Hon. Mr. CROSBIE WARD, also obtained leave to bring in a Bill to confer certain additional powers upon Commissioners of Crown Lands. Bill read a first time, ordered to be printed and read a second time on Friday. COMMITTEE OF SELECTION ON PRIVATE BILLS. On the motion of Mr. JOLLIE, the following gentlemen were appointed to form the above Committee : —Messrs. Fitzgerald, Weld, Nixon, and Carleton. PRIVATE GRIEVANCE COMBiiTTEE. On motion of the same hou. member, a Private Grievance Committee was appointed, consisting of the following gentlemen :—Messrs. Brandon, Gillies, ManteJl, Fitzherbert, J, Cracroft Wilson. C.8., Weld, Ormond, It. Graham, and Hon. Crosbie Ward. STRENGTH: OF AND RESIGNATIONS IN VOLUNTEER CORPS. Major NJXON moved for a Return showing the strength of Volunteer Corps in the Colony, on the 15th January, 1862, and on 30th June, 1862, respectively. Also, for a Return to 30th June, 1862, showing the i- number of resignations in those Corps under the provisions of the Volunteer Regulations. Motion agreed to. LEAVE OP ABSENCE TO MR. MOOREHOUSE. On the motion of Mr. FITZGERALD, leave of absence was given to the Superintendent of Canterbury for a fortnight LIBRARY PRINTING COMMITTEE. On the motion of Mr. BELL, a Library and Printing Committee was appointed, consisting of Messrs. Fox, Wood, Fitzherbert, Stafford, Domett, O'Rorke, Carleton, and the Speaker. REPLY TO mS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH. As Mr. FITZHERBERT was about to move the address printed below — The SPEAKER remarked that the course about to be pursued was different from the course taken at home and from that pursued last session. It was desirable, he thought, that their practice should be uniform with that of the House of Commons. The first motion would then be a resolution, that an address should be prepared in reply to His Excellency's speech. A committee would then be appointed to prepare tho address, which would be read a first and second time, and then agreed to by the House. Several opportunities were thus afforded of giving full consideration to the address. It was desirable that these constitutional safeguards against hasty resolutions, should be imported into their practice here. Mr. FITZHERBERT said, he quite coincided with the Speaker's view, and would move accordingly,— " That this House do resolve that an Address be prepared in reply to His Excellency's Speech." He regretted for many reasons that he had been called upon to perform this task, for he was confident that there were many other members who would have discharged the duty m a manner more satisfactory to the House and certainly more satisfactory to himself. It was with great feelings of diffidence that he appeared charged with this duty, for it involved a difficult position, and made one feel a sympathy for that ill-used and very easily imposed upon class of persons—godfathers and god-mothers. He felt very much in the position of one of those individuals towards the address, and if he failed to do justice to all the beautie* of this firstborn of his hon. friends on his right, he would leave it to those to whom the paternity belonged to come to the rescue and be enthusiastic in its praise. He proposed himself to offer some observations on the various paragraphs of the speech with which His Excellency had favoured them. On the subject touched upon in the first paragraph (the death of the Prince Consort), he believed he should best accord with the wishes of the House by not offering any observations, especially as it had already been touched upon. Every inhabitant of these Islands would join with them in deepest sympathy with Her Majesty for the irreparable loss sustained by her, and by the nation at large. (Hear, hear.) The next subject touched upon was one of most deep and present importance to us. The appointment of Sir George Grey to undertake the duties and responsibilities of the Government of this Colony a second time, and at a critical juncture, was indeed a noticeable circumstance. A deep debt of gratitude w?s due to the Imperial Government for giving the commission, and to His Excellency for having aecepted so onerous a commission. (Hear, hear.) If doubts had arisen in the minds of the colonists in these Islands at the first announcement of that appointment, such doubts were rather to be taken as an indication of that jealous love and faithful guardianship of our Constitution, without which the vitality of a free country, on however broad and free a basis it might rest, would soon become extinct. Any such doubts must, however, have now been entirely allayed and removed by a perusal of the papers which had been laid on the table of the House, in every line of which appeared a most jealous regard for tho constitutional position in which this Colony was placed. Their perusal showed to his mind most clearly that no single step had been taken without a reference to the fact that Representative Institutions not only existed in this Colony in name and on paper, but also as having a reality to which His Excellency made uniform reference and showed a constant desire to work in conformity and in unison with the representatives of the people, as in Parliament assembled in New Zealand. This presented to his mind a matter of the greatest possible congratulation, and one which called forth the response that they also would be ready to act in unison with the Representative of Her Majesty. As theie papers had but recently bem laid on the table, he might be pardoned if hj? adverted to one or two despatches exhibiting the
constitutional views to which he had referred. His Excellency on 19th October, 1861, in a despatch to the Duke of Newcastle, said with reference to a memorandum by Mr. Fox on the applicability of the existing form of Government to the circumstances of the Colony, " Your Grace will, I am sure, peiase these papers with great interest, and will agree with me in thinking that the calmness and moderation of the views expressed in them at a time of considerable excitement, are very creditable to the inhabitants of New Zealand, and afford every hope," &c. The style of No. 3 of the enclosures referred to was very significant to any hon. membeis jeaious of constitutional ritjhts. It commenced thus: —" Ministers are aware that the question has been raised, and may be raised again, how far the form of Constitutional Government bestowed upon this Colony by the Imperial Parliament in 1852, is adapted to its present circumstances, and whether a suspension of the Constitution might not facilitate the adjustment of the difficulties of the present crisis.'' Ministers then went on to show the inextricable confusion that would arise from such a conrse, and it was in reference to this memorandum that His Excellency made the remarks"above quoted. Nothing could be more satisfactory to the House than to be made thus aware of the loyal manner, so to speak, in which our institutions were to be upheld. The next three paragraphs of His Excellency's speech touched upon a subject of the highest importance and one which had in previous sessions engrossed much of the time of the Legislature, and had no doubt caused a great difference of opinion (as every difficult question must), not only in the Legislature, but outside of it. He need scarcely say, that he referred to those " unsatisfactory relations which have grown up between a portion of the Maori race and the Government." No doubt that was a theme which if it were either desired or desirable, would lead to considerable discussion. But however that might satisfy any individual desire of distinction or of triumph, he for one declared most emphatically that he desired entirely to confine himself to the present and the future, and leave the past so far as animadversion was concerned on any of those disputed points •, emphatically he would say. " let the dead bury their dead.'' He would no more desire to enter upon any historical, political or party discussion than he would approve of firing on a fatigue party sent out to perform the last obsequies for their fallen comrades. But so far as concerned the present and immediate future, in respect particularly ot the relations that are now subsisting and those which it is proposed should hereafter subsist by law as between the European inhabitants and the Natives, and between the Natives for governmental purposes inter se, that was a subject to which their very particular attention was invited. Taking that practical view he must say that the perusal of the papers referred to in the fourth paragraph bad afforded him, for the most part, (for he was under no obligation of approving every act of a Ministry, because be was called upon to move the address), the most particular satisfaction, and he hoped the House would be prepared to give great credit where it was due, for the information contained in some of these documents. His Excellency said, —" My hope of success rests mainly (under Divine Providence), on the co-operation and support which I may receive from the colonists, and the resources you may place at my disposal." No doubt this was a great part of the question - 7 and tbe financial beai-ing of the project being a kind of speciality belonging to this branch of the Legislature, its aspect was most satisfactory. His only doubt was lest he should have formed too hasty a conclusion. The thing appeared almost too good in a financial point of view. The estimate of his Excellency for carrying out the proposed plan amounted to only about £49,000 and how was it proposed to meet that special expenditure ? In a Minute of his Excellency, November 2d, 1861, he said : —"The expenditure proposed to be incurred for introducing Booh a system of Government amongst the Natives may be stated at (say) £50,000 when ihe proposed plan is in full operation; but by that time a considerable part of its cost will be defrayed by local taxation. Ultimately, it would not only defray its cost by local taxation, but leave a considerable sum in aid of the revenue, applicable for the administration of justice, local improvements, or such like charges. Upon the whole, I think it may bs safely calculated, that in about seven years, it will defray its own cost and yield some surplus revenue, besides giving a stimulus to the productive energy and to the development of the resources of the colony, which will largely increase its commerce, trade, and general revenue. I consider it so essential for the safety of the colony, and for the prevention of the impending general war, that this plan should be brought into operation without further delay, that I will concur, as I have already stated to Minister?, the responsibility of fore going on behalf of the Imperial Government, the cost of half the expense of the proposed plan from tbe Colonial contribution of .£35,000 towards the coat of maintaining British troops in this Colony." There could be no doubt then on this subject. These words were plain, clear, and intelligible. The expense was to be ££o,ooo, one half of whiob was undertaken to be defrayed out of the Imperial contribution, and some £26,000 having been voted by the House on former occasions for these purposes, it appeared to him that there would be something to the credit of the colony, for the speciality to which he had referred. He dare say most hon. members had heard rumours, wonderful stories of reckless expenditure that was to take place in New Zealand, in reference to the Natives, in which the hope of many a promising young mind (and old too) had been engaged, thinking it was only to go and ask for a Civil Commissionership, and put £SOO a year in his pocket. The figures before the House did not bear out any such golden expectations. If any such ideas prevailed, the following minute would set them at rest. " Miuisters have read and considered His. Excellency's Memoranda of the 29th November, 1861, relative to the cost of tbe proposed institutions for tbe government of the natives. Assuming the annual cost at that stated by His Excellency, and that half of that amount is already provided by tbe colony for special native purposes, Ministers consider His Excellency's offer to enable them to provide the other half by appropriating to the Native Service the Colonial contributions towards the cost of the Imperial troops as liberal and satisfactory. It will be necessary, however, to work in with His Excellency's plans the amount already appropriated, partly by civil list, and partly by special Act, so as to make it available for the maintenance of the new machinery. This may prove a matter of some financial difficulty; but as it will be some time before tbe system contemplated by His Excellency can be generally introduced, there will be opportunity gradually to adopt it to tbe existing arrangements. Ministers do not shrink from the responsibility, of adopting plans involving so large an expenditure—on the contrary, they consider the circumstances absolutely require it, and required aho that tbe emergency should be faced at once. It would be idle to attempt the solution of existing difficulties by proposing plans for the social improvement of the natives dependent on possible voles of the General Assembly. But His Excellency must not misapprehend the extent to which Ministers can pledge the colony in a matter of finance. They can and will recommend to the General Assembly to make the requisite provision for tbe intended object, and they cau and will stake their own position as Ministers on the Assembly adopting this recommendation, but they have no constitutional power to bind the Assembiy before band." He entirely subscribed to such doctrine, Ministers had in that respect acted in a constitutional manDer. It was a matter of congratulatioa that the proposed arrangements were likely to trespass in so light a manner upon our revenues. So much for the financial aspect of the question; he (Mr. F.) thought be should be best consulting the convenience of the House by not entering into minute criticism of the details of the scheme, but briefly summarised they appeared to him to be these :—To take certain irregular meetings styled runangas, which had a kind of traditional force and influence on the native mind, as a kind of basis, give a direction to them by the appointment of Europeans to preside and direct, to bring them from irregular assemblies under tbe force and direction of law ; to enable them to pass certain bye-laws for the better police and social anangement of themseWes; to constitute legal tribunals in which the natives themselves should take part; and also, to introduce certain reforms as to the management of native reserves—the issuing of Crown Grants —the individualization of native titles—and the sale of land by natives. He would not go into certain questions of detail between the Governor and Ministers, though on some points he inclined rather to the Governor's views. The main question of whether such a scheme was likely to succeed in practice waa a mat. ter which he must leave to the opinion of those who hid a more special knowledge of the native people's customs, and tbe state of the native mind, than he could pretend to ; but it was an experiment wonby of trial, and if the financial aspect was advantageous, the political asptct, he contended, was not one whit less satisfactory. However unpleasant it might be in any country to deal with these specialities it was a duty which it was impossible they could shrink from whilst they performed their duty. The one thing which appeared to him most requisite was to give a sufficient time for the working of the scheme,—not to press it on too quickly. Much also depended oa the energv, ability, and fitness ot tbe peculiar instruments appointed to carry out the administration of the scheme. Tbey had the right man in the right place, and appointed at the right time, '» His Excellency the Governor, and he hoped the same fortunate selection would be made in appointing the right nun i u Uie right places, at the right times, in carrying out these rustitations. If not, his hope of iheir
success would be materially diminished. He Lad faith not only in our English institutions, but in the right-minded character of Englishmen, that whenever they had a duty to perform, however much they might grumble and say they would not go on, eoTtebow or other they always did go on (hear, hear.) His attention had lately been drawn to an article from The Press that did so completely express what be would say, if he could say it so forcibly and so well, that be would take the liberty of reading it to the House:—"To us and to our children, it seems not too much say, this Native problem has been given as a solemn trust and that, not /or the benefit of the native race only, but for our own. For sure we are that the faithful and earnest attention to the solutiou of this problem will react for ourselves, whether it be through peace or whether it be through war, lifting our national mind out of the petty incidents connected with our own raoc, and educating us for that stand among the nation* of the world, which lhe>e islands must one day take." On this part of the subject it only remained for him to remark on the status de facto of the country. What was our present position with the natives? Not a position of war, nor could he say it was a position of profound peace, but it was a position which he for one was thankful to be able to record. It had been a position of peace, fur in fact nearly twelve months, and yet without in any way compromising the dignity of the British name, without in any way truckling to the natives. For a peiiod of nearly twelve months they had been in peace, and they could only appreciate that inestimable blessing by turning tlu-ir attention for a moment to what their position would have been if instead of peace it had been a period of war. He could speak for his own constituents that they were verv grateful that it had not been so, for had it been a perion of w*r, not one of them would have been in an independent position to-day. As to how far that period of peace was to last it was not for him to say. He could not perceive that the dignity of the British name was to be compromised, but on the contrary the most careful regard was shewn not only to the existing claim of the European population, but also to their prospective position, and even to the most doubtful mind the following part of His Excellency's speech must be fall of reassurance on that point :—" At the same time I am not unmindful of what is due to the European population which, relying on well known treaties and guarantees, had made this country its adopted home, and is entitled to expect that progress of colonization should not be unnecessarily or improperly obstructed." He pinned his faith on that and believed it would be carried out. The next subject was one of particular interest, viz., reference to a contemplated loan of £ICO,OOO, a portion of which had been anticipated in forming a road in the Auckland district to the banks of the Waikato. A more wise or prudent step could not possibly be taken. The only thing that he took exception to on this topic was the amount, which he would rather should have been £1,000,000, for making roads through the country, as it waß one of those questions in which economy was the greatest extravagance, and whilst it was a well known saying " that civilization goes on wheels," it might be as truly said that " peace goes on wheels." There was that peculiar geographical, construction ot this Nortberu Island, that it possessed a large available central area, and when we had a Ministry bold enough, looking far enough into the future and economical enough to be so extravagant on this point, as to make a great highway from the port of Auckland to the port of Wellington, when that great worlc should have "been completed, independently'of any peculiar speciality, Native as a matter of course, would die out without military interference other than that here referred to in the speech. There never could be any solid durable peace till that great work was done. (Applause.) If in the great centre of this island, instead of a few straggling Europeans, there was settled a focus of European population, it would solve a great many problems which notv present themselves, and would be for the lasting benefit of both European and Native races. A most remarkable lesson touching on this point might be learnt in this Province. Travelling up the East Coast he saw deserted pahs, chapels built at considerable expense tumbling into ruins, neither Native minister there nor any other, he looked in vain for natives, and saw one or two wretched old men crawling out of what by courtesy might be called a whare, yet the climate was admirable, the land fertile, the reserves ample, what then was the reason of this wretchedness 1 The absence of Europeans among them in sufficient numbers. When he came nearer to the vallies of the Hutt, there he saw Natives of the same race, riding on carts and horses, goiug to the butchers' shops, consulting the doctor, wearing trowsers and coats, and also those inner garments so necessary to life, living in boarded houses, their wives going to and from markets, singing, happy and fat. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) While in th 6 other place he saw them crawling and abject, and he asked the bouse to solve the problem. Here they came amongst us, and behaved as well &s any gentlemen could, sat at our table, and indulged in the comforts and luxuries of civilized life, while the others lived scarcely like human beings. If there were in the open centre of the Northern Islaud a considerable European settlement, the Natives then would have all tbese ad\antages, as contrasted with those on the East Coast, and everything of the character of war would be at an end. (Hear, hear.) The next subject was our Volunteer Forces: he did not know any of the Bills iutended to be introduced on that point, but he considered the Ministry were quite right in encouraging and developing the Volunteer system of self-defence that had been in so remarkable and successful a manner developed at home The Bth paragraph referred to the great, and at one time, unexpected rapid development of the Middle Island, perhaps soon to be followed by similar developement in the Northern Island. (Hear, hear.) [n the particular details to be proposed, he was willing to give ministers credit that they were willing to follow out good constitutional principles, trusting that they would bear in mind the existence of Provincial Institutions. The Steam Postal Service was next mentioned, a vexed question, and one on which people naturally enough chose to have their own peouliar views. He bad read the Report of the Postmaster General and it appeared to bim a very able Report, recording a great number of excellent and practical reforms. There was the Surveyor of the Contract Mail Steamers, proposed by a former administration, the increase of the number of steamers employed from three to seven, the prepayment of lettprs by postage stamps, the abolition of the system of paying out of one pocket into the other, by means of franking Government letters, and lastly the introduction of the Money Order System. All these reforms showed the •rent activity there had been in this department, and if in the distribution of the increased steam communication every Province could not be served according to its own views, the problem, it must be admitted, was difficult of solution. He was not prepared to say the arrangement was perfect, the centre of the islands being left in a great measure without direct communication. By the help of the House, however, some modification might be made to remedy this. A great step had at all events been made in advance, for which ministers deserved every credit. He much regretted that it should be impracticable to reorganize the inland post between Wanganui and Taranaki. There might be good reasous for that. Time, however, he supposed would prove a curative. He saw, however, in this report a principle recognized which was fundamentally wrong. He concurred "in the importance of establishing frequent communication between all the provinces, for governmental as well as postal purposes," but the next paragraph recognized as a point of equal importance " the desirability of maintaining and improving, if possible, the strictly commercial and passenger advantages rendered to the several parts of the Colony by the contract steamers." Now be thought subsidies ought not to be given to suit mercantile interests. He hoped the day was not far distant when a telegraphic communication under Cook's Straits, a very important and useful work for Government purposes would be accomplished. The next paragraph referred to the loss of the White Swan, a matter which they all deplored though mixed up with so many subjects of congratulation, that one lost sight of the loss itself in thankfulness for the wonderful preservation of life. The panic which seized the people when the news arrived was very great, some weak-minded persons deploring the fate of New Zealand as if some strange thing had happened to them. It might seem to be a paradox, but a country without storms was no country at all, storms had been the preservation of our native land on more occasions than one ; and unless be had read history wrong, if De Witt could have got out of the Texel at the time of the mutiny at the Nere, the subsequent position of Great Britain might have been very different; and they might have a great many advantages, although we might not see them at the time. It was very unbecoming every time the wind blew or the earth shook to say "Oh I wish I bad not come here," (Great laughter.) The conduct of the ministers he believed with regard to the £IO,OOO, voted last year for Native purposes had been exemplary. He had reason to believe that that sum had not been to any material extent exceeded. If that were the case, credit was due to the ministers, for not having on their own authority, loosened the pursestrings prior to consulting this House. (Hear, hear.) The next j subject was cognate to that, and he admired the plain I way in which it way put: a plain answer was required I to a plain question. The little bill of the Home ' Government against us amounted to about £190,000. I He humbly conceived thst u was not according- to the ! spirit of this A«sembh io repuduiate any of their just I debts, (btar, R ■' be believed it was far b-tter I for them to trust to t : .e liberality and generosity of the British public anu QoYernment winch had done so
much for us, had been at such considerable expense in rearing this colony and protecting it, and if necessary would extend still farther its aid. They should not enter upon this question in a niggardly or haggling spirit, but throw themselves upon the generosity of that empire which had ever shown itself most generous. This was the most likely way to save uudue expenditure and preserve ourselves from the character of repudiating our just debts. They were now invited to undertake a legislative duty such as bad never been offered to any other colony situated as we are. He knew of no colony blessed with Representative Institutions that had had so great and noble objects offered to its consideration as this Native question involved (bear, hear). The great advance shewn by the Census proving that we were emerging from a state of infancy into a state of adolescence, our thoughts ou°ht to be large and expanding in proportion, and we should not confine ourselves altogether to mere "parish business." The Home authorities would be verv much guided in pressing their claims by the statesmanlike views and r°gard to humanity which tbe House showed on this question. In the eleventh paragraph he had no doubt the House would sincerely join. He had thus endeavoured to do justice to tbe principal features of the first-born to which be had been invited to stand god-father. (Hear, hear.) Taking his Excellency's Speech as a whole it was well calculated to enlist the feelings of the House, in the first place, as the policy promulgated to the Natives, appeared consistent with that formerly enunciated by ministers, a great point which all assemblies looked at; and in the second place with respect to the principles enunciated, inasmuch as the uniform characteristic of it was a regard for the constitutional privileges of New Zealand. He tendered to them his thanks for the patience with which the House had listened to bun, and without further remarks he begged to move,— "That an Address be prepared in reply to His Excellency's Speech, and that a Committee be appointed to" prepare the same—consisting of the Honorable Messrs. Fox, Henderson, Wood, and Ward." Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON seconded the motion.
The question having been put and carried unanimously, the Committee (including the mover and seconder) retired and presently returned with the following Address, which having been read a first and second time was unanimously agreed to:— May it please your Excellency,— We, Her Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the House of Representatives, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to return our thanks to your Excellency for the speech which your Excellency has made to both Houses of the General Assembly. We unite with your Excellency in an expression of sorrow for the death of His Royal Highness the Prince Contort,—in the full appreciation of his private and public worth, —and in sincere sympathy with her Majesty under this great affliction. We offer to your Excellency our congratulations on your re-appointment as Governor of New Zealand, and we gratefully recognize the motives which have induced you, at considerable personal sacrifice, to undertake the arduous duties of that office in a time of great emergency. We assure your Excellency that it is our earnest wish to be able to co-operato with yourself insecuring the prosperity and advancement of both races in these islands, and that any measures laid by your Excellency before us with that object, shall receive our most serious consideration.
We express in common with your Excellency, our great regret for the loss ot thesteamer " White Swan,'' on this coast, while bringing many members of the General Assembly to attend the present session ; and our unfeigned gratitude to Almighty God for the providential preservation of the lives of all on board. We also cordially unite with your Excellency in thanking those who offered generous hospitality, and gave valuable aid to tbe persons who were shipwrecked. We sincerely pray, together with your Excellency, that the Divine Blessing may support your Excellency in the execution of your duty, and guide our deliberations to the attainment of the welfare and happiness of all her Majesty's subjects in New Zealand. The Hon. Mr. Fox then moved, " that the Speaker accompanied by the mover and seconder and such members as desired to accompany them to present the Address to His Excellency at 11 o'clock to-morrow.'' Motion agreed to. Tno House then adjourned at a £ to 8 o'clock. THURSDAY, July, 17th, 1862. The SPEAKER took the Chair at 12 o'clock. PETITIONS. ' Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON presented a Petition from Charles St. John Herbert, praying to be enabled to acquire land in the Province of Auckland, free of cost, as a retired military officer. Petition read and received. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON also presented a Petition from Daniel Keefe and others who had selected land under the Regulations of 1855, to which they could not obtain a title, not bavins made the required improvements, and they prayed to be placed on the same footing as others in similar circumstances had been. Petition read and received. Mr. COLENSO presented a Petition from Thomas and Henry Shirley of Napier, in reference to the well- ' known cattle trespass and grass money case, complain- ; ing of injustice done to them in the Civil Commis- ( sioner's Court, and praying for enquiry to be made. Petition read and received. ; .REPLY TO THE ADDRESS. The SPEAKER informed the House that in obedience to its instructions he had waited upon His i Excellency for the purpose of presenting to him the Address agreed upon by the House the day before. On bis presenting the same His Excellency bad been pleasedto make the following reply:— " Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen of the House of Representatives—l return you my thanks for this Address and I rely with confidence on your cordial co-opera-tion in allmeasures which may be considered necessary under existing circumstances to promote the permanent interests and welfare of the Colony.'' JUDGES REPORT ON PROPOSED BILLS. Mr, RUSSELL asked the Hon. Colouial Secretary when he would lay on the table of the House the Report of the Judges of the Supreme Court upon certain Bills prepared by the Hon. the Attorney General and submitted by that officer to the Judges for their consideration. The Hon. Mr. FOX replied that no such reports were in existence, nor bad any official communication passed between the Attorney General and the Chief' Justice on the subject. LEAVE OF ABSENCE TO SIR- ORMOND. Mr. COLENSO moved that a month's leave of absence be granted to Mr. Ormond, member for Clive. Agreed to.
COMMITTEE ON STEAM AND ELECTRIC COMMUNICATION. The Hon. Mr. CROSBIE WARD, in moving "That a Select Committee be appointed to consider and report upon the subject of communication to and from and within the Colony. Committee to consist of Mr. John Williamson, Dr. Featherston. Mr. Moorhouse, Major Richardson, Air. Domett, Mr. Watt, Mr. D. Bell, Mr. Colenso, and Mr. Eyes. Committee to report on August 6," remarked, that regarding this question as coming more within the sphere of the Provincial than the General Government, he bad eudenvoured to include in tbe Committee those who held the highest rank in and were most likely to know the requirements of tbe different Provinces. He bad therefore placed upon tbe Committee every Superintendent who was a member of the House. Where the Superintendent was not amongst tbe members of any Province, be bad placed upon the Committee a member of the Provincial Executive of that Province, or where there were neither iu the House, some one member for that Province. The Committee would have three main duties to consider—postal communication round our coasts; the advisability of adopting the route to England by Panama; and tbe establishment of telegraphic communication between the different ports of tbe colony. Mr. GILLIES thought the constitution of the Committee was not a fair one as it now stood (hear). It appeared by tbe Postmaster-General's report that the postal service would cost, independently of the Imperial contribution, £38,000, including tbe Melbourne and Port Chalmers service, and of ibis sum Otago would contribute £18,700; Auckland, £7,460; Wellington, £3,550; Canterbury, £4,400; Nelson, £2,600 ; Napier, £440 ; Marlborough, £IOO ; Southland, £450. Otago thus paid half the total amount and was not so well represented as one of those who paid least, Cauferbury having both its Superintendent and Postmaster-General. [Hon. Mr. Ward : Will the hon. gentleman make a proposition on the subject ?] He (Mr, G.) would trust to tbe good sense of the Postmaster-General to make a more equitable arranged Committee, but if necessary be would move that the Committee be selected by ballot. Dr. FEATHERSTON moved that Mr. Gillies' name be added to tbe Committee.
Major RICHARDSON remarked, that though Otago woula have to pay the whole of the .Melbourne and Port Chalmers subsidy, they could not tell what the amount might be, no tenders for the contract having yet been received. lie could not positively s:;y that the Governmeni were prepared to go to any expanse. The Hon. Mr. WOOD said, that if the prin:iple of amount were to be brought in, it should bt-'rerr.i nbered that others paid largely as well ta Otago, and to pro-
tect the interest of Auckland he should move that the Committee be chosen by ballot, remembering bow the interests of Auckland were sacrificed on a former occasion when a Steam Committee was appointed, which took away from Auckland the communication it had previously enjoyed, and compelled it, in. consequence of its iarge Customs revenue at the time, to pay a considerable portion of a steam subsidy for which it scarcely received any return whatever. As by recent arrangements Auckland had been restored to the position which it ought to occupy, it more especially behoved its members to be exceedingly jealous as to the way in which the Committee was chosen. Mr. FITZGERALD said he regretted the unfortunate position taken by tbe Colonial Treasurer in attacking the motion of the Postmaster-General, the former appearing to have forgotten the independent position which he occupied on that Bench. He(Mr F.) should support the motion of the Postmaster-General, and also that of the member for Wellington. The fair way was to place before the House what each Province had to say for itself, but by ballot they might have nearly all" the Committee selected from one Province (Hear, hear). The SPEAKER said the number of a Committee could not be increased beyond ten, except by a special motion after notice given. Every member bad a right to demand the ballot without question put. The Hon. Mr. WOOD explained that be was perfectly satisfied with the resolution of the PostmasterGeneral, but if any additional names should be added to secure the interests of Otago, then he should require the ballot.
Mr. BELL here raised a point of order, which after much discussion resulted in the question being divided. The first part of the question—that a Committee be appointed, having been affirmed, tbe House returned again to the composition of the Committee. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON regretted to hear theobservations of his hon. friend the Colonial Treasurer, attacking the conduct and proceedings of a former Committee of ihe House on thisquestiou, and proceeded to defend the conduct of the Committee. He concurred in the propriety of the Postmaster-General's motion. The arrangements made during the recess had been found satisfactory to the Province of Aucklaud, and to the Colony, as a whole, but iu his opinion it would be better that the whole service should be undertaken by this House, rather than be contingent on the votes of the Provincial Councils, which at any time might derange the whole scheme. Therefore he considered that the course now taken was a proper one, and he believed the result of the Committee's deliberations would be satisfactory to the whole Colony. He was not opposed to an additional member being given to the Province of Otago, as it contributed so largely ; but at the same time he thought that Auckland was in a fair way of contributing largely also, and if hon. gentlemen considered it necessary to add one for Otago, be would second the motion; but at the same time, if the other members for Auckland considered that Province not fully represented, he thought the House would agree as to the fairness of giviug it another member. Mr. J. C. RICHMOND moved that Mr. Watt and Mr. Eyes, representatives of the Provinces that contributed least, should be omitted, and Messrs. Russell and Gillies substituted. His experience in that House showed bim that the smaller Provinces might safely leave their interests to members at large. Mr. WATT seconded tbe motion.
Mr. EYES decidedly objected to have bis name omitted. Marlborough might be small at present, and so was Otago not long ago, and it was impossible to say bow soon gold diggings might be discovered in Marlborough. If this motion were persisted in be should demand the ballot. Mr. STAFFORD referred to the little difference between two hon. members on tbe Treasury bench, a thing which, he assured the member for Ellesmere (Mr. FitzGerald) would be of frequent occurrence during the present session, anil proceeded to state his opinion that the labours of the Postmaster-General had resulted in as good a service as the colony could expect for some time to come: but it was most unfortunate that he had not beforehand arranged something like tbe time-table
which was afterwards matured, and laid it before the different portions of the colony, which would have prevented unnecessary feelings of irritation and distrust of the intentions of tbe hon. gentleman whiob had prevailed. The hon. gentleman bad also been unfortunate in tbe manner in which he introduced the motion to the House. Had he abstained from some of the remarks he made in introducing the motion tbe Committee wouM have been appointed in five minutes. Tbe selection made by the hon. member was a very fair one, but in bis opening remarks be had forced upon hon. members the consideration that they represented special political portions of the colony, and consequently the necessity of considering whether that special political portion from which they came had as large a share in the constitution of the Committee as its pecuniary interests might appear to require. With regard to the remarks of the Colonial Treasurer he agreed with what bad fallen from the mnniber from Auckland West. He sympathized also with the position of Otago in having to pay the whole cost of the third steamer. With regard to the general question he considered there were two plans both distinguished by a broad principle of absolute fairness. One, that the portions of the colony desiring to have intercolonial services should pay for them themselves, the General Government providing for the Inter-Provincial service ; the other was that the expense of tbe three existing lines should be borne entirely by the Colonial Revenues in the same manner as the Inter-Provincial, and not partly on the General and partlv on the Provincial as proposed at present. He thought the last was the superior plan, but failing to achieve that, he should propose that the Inter-Provineial services should be charged on the colony, and that it be left to the provinces themselves to establish their own mail services with Australia.
Mr. CURTIS referred to the existing arrangements as incomplete, unfair, and expensive. The Hon. CROSBIE WARD then replied—the hon. member for Nelson, he said, was under a mistake in supposing that any reticence of his (Mr. Ward's) would have prevented this debate. It was right, he thought, that the subject had been well ventilated, but had he not made any remarks the hon. members for Bruce and Dunedin were prepared to enlighten the House on tbe difficulties of Otago in the matter. His object had been to represent all interests and provide for all contingencies. The smallest Province had some interest and could not be represented by less than one member, and the larger ones could not obtain any tangible advantage by having more than one representative, as each would still be in a small minority to the whole. Any Committee, he believed, would deal with tbe subject in justice and fairness, and tbe addition of one or two names would neither impede nor facilitate its action; he objected, however, to adding to the representatives of any Province, but especially to Otago for two reasons ; in tbe first place because Otago was already uncommonly well represenled in Major Richardson, and secondly, because the contract between Port Chalmers and Melbourne (costing £10,000,) bad been refused by Otago to be placed at the mercy of the House. Deducting that therefore, Otago's share would be found not so very much in excess of the others. She bad declined contributions from any other part of tbe colony in order that she might have the whole control of it, and it was absurd therefore for her now to complain because she had to pay for it. She had the entire control of the boats and was well able to pay for it. The remainderof what she paid being for her Intet-Provincial service entirely. In conclusion, while he should be sorry to object to any Committee the House might appoint, he protested against she addition of tbe member for Bruce as an unnecessary addition to a Committee already large enough. The question being then put" that the words proposed to be left out stand part of the question'' it was negatived (by mistaka) and tbe names of Messrs. Watt and Eyes were expunged. The question that Mr. Russell and Mr. Gillies be inserted was then put. Major RICHARDSON wished to correct an ungenerous misrepresentation made by tbe PostmasterGeneral, who in stating that Otago bad the contract in her,own hands, should in comrcon honesty have mentioned that there were certain restrictions on the Otago Government, one of which was to convey the mail to Southland.
Tbe Hon. W. FOX requested the hon. member to withdraw tbe expression "in common honesty."
Major RICHARDSON wished to know if be bad said anything offensive to the Hon. tbe PostmasterGeneral.
Tbe Hon. C. WARD said he had no objection to the expression, because if it fitted it was all right, and if it did not it would not hurt him. He would mention that there was a restriction of the nature mentioned by the hon. gentleman, but it did not materially affect the question of the Melbourne and Port Chalmers contract being taken by Otago under her own control, or the payment for it. Tbe Hon. W. FOX said he had called attention to the expression not because it was offensive to tbe hon. gentleman or to the Government, but because he considered it derogatory to the dignity of the House that r-ucb expressions should be made use of. Tbe SPEAKER, so far as the Reporters understood, continued this view. Major RICHARDSON had great pleasure in withdrawing the expression, and regretted that he should have ushiJ any expression which in the slightest e offended any member of ihe House. The question that the names of Messrs. Russ-ll and Gillies he added, was then put, and the House divided as follows:
Aves 25.~Messw. Atkinson, Bell, Butler, Co enso, Cum tßomett, Gillies, G. < Sraham R Graham, Jo he, Maotell, Mason, J. Munro Nixon O'Ne.llß.chardson Russell A J Richmond, C. J. Taylor, Watt, Wells. JamesWUliamSn, John Williamson, J. C. Wilson, and J. C.Richmond,(teller). ,u a „.„„ v;,,. iVo« 13 —Messrs. Brandon, Eyes, Featberston, FitzGerald Harrison, Henderson, Reuall, Rhodes, Saunders, W TaWor*Fox, Wood, and C. Ward, (teller). uawke's bay i-ethion. Mr. RUSSELL moved-" That the Petition from the inhabitants of .he Province of Hawko . Bay complaining of the operation of the Cml Commissioner s Court there," be printed. Mr GILLIES remarked thai this was the first time the term Civil Commissioner had occurred m the House, and he wished to know what a Civil Commissioner was. The Hon W. FOX said the boo. member's question wa* a very proper one, but it should be put on the Notice Paper as a separate question, and not mixed up with the present motion. He, however, would mention that the whole of the petition, so far as It touched upon the Civil Commissioner's Court, wbs what is vulgarly called " a mare'* nest." The gentleman who acted as Civil Commissioner at Napier, was also a Evident Magistrate, and the whole proceedings in this case (.Mr. Colenso's) were taken in the Resident Magistrate a Court at Napier, being a Court where any Resident Magistrate had a right to sit, and any other magistrates to sit with him. Motion agreed to. DOCUMENTS LOST IX THE " WHITE SWAN." Mr. RUSSELL moved for a Return showing the number of cases of Government records and other documenu lost in the steamer White Swan, and specifying the nature of those records and documents. The Hon. W. FOX said he could not furnish at once all the required information, as the schedules and other papers stating what documents were sent, were themselves lost. He would lay on the table to-morrow, a statement which would give the Ho#se some information on the subject, and would immediately write to Auckland for further information. MINUTES OF MILITARY DEFENCE COMMITTEE. Mr. D. BELL moved—"That a Committee be apappointed to confer with any similar Committee that mav be appointed by the Legislative Council, to decide as to what course should be taken in regard to the Minutes of proceedings of the joint Committee of both Houses on Military Defence, appointed last Session. Committee to consist of the Hon. W. Fox, Dr. Featherston, Mr. Stafford, and Mr. Fitzgerald." Motion agreed to. SUPPLY. The Hon. R. WOOD moved—" That this House do take into its consideration so much of His Excellency s : speech as relates to a grant of Supply." He had to-day given notice to move on Tuesday, certain important financial resolutions and on that occasion he proposed to make the usual Financial Statement. After that, if those resolutions were passed pretty much as proposed, the Estimates would be at once laid on the table, and the ordinary business of supply be gone on with. There could not possibly ha any delay with regard to the Estimates, as those documents were fortunately saved from the wreck of the White Swan. The motion having been agreed to, the SPEAKER read the portion of His Excellency's Speech referred to. Resolved,—On the motion of Mr. WOOD, " That a Supply be granted to Her Majes<y, and that the Ho UB e to-morrow, (Friday), resolve itself into Committee to consider of that Supply." The House then adjourned at a quarter to 3 o'clock.
FRIDAY, JULY 18th, 1862. The SPEAKER took the cbair at 12 o'clock. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. The Hon. VV. FOX said the House would recolleet his bon. friend the Colonial Treasurer yesterday intimated that on Tuesday he would be prepared to make his financial statement. It had siuce been intimated to him (Mr. F.) by many members that it would be unsatisfactory to the House to enter upon financial business before they had bad a full statement of the intentions of the Government with regard to Native affairs. Under these circumstances he was quite prepared en Tuesday evening next, on moving for leave to introduce a Bill on the disposal of Native Lauds, to go fully into the subject. The Hon. COL. TREASURER in consequence of the above, postponed till Wednesday next, the following resolution :—''That this Committee will sanction the issue of monies from the Public Cbe*t by the Colonial Treasurer in accordance with the provisions of the Appropriation Act of IS6I-62, until the Appropriation Act for the current financial year is passed, on moving which he would make bis financial statement, and postpone till a future day the other resolutions of which he had given notice. SDFItEME COUKT AT IfELSOX. Mr. SAUNDERS asked the Colonial Secretary why the sittings of the Supreme Court at Nelson have been postponed from the 15th of the present month to the loth August? ' The Hon. VV. FOX said the best answer be could give would be to lay on the table the correspondence between His Honor the Judge and the AttorneyGeneral. BEACON IN THE FRENCH PASS. Mr. CURTIS asked the Government why the Beacon in the French Pass has not been erected in accordauce with the vote of last session, and when it will be? The Hon. R. WOOD replied that when be was in Nelson he arranged with the Superintendent that the lieacon should be erected by the local authorities, and that when erected, the General Government would pay for it. The delay was probably caused by the Superintendent sending to England for the Beacon which he appeared to think would be cheaper. The Government were about to introduce a " Marine Boards Bill," (hear, hear), and questions of this kind would come under the consideration of such Boards. CONVEYANCE OP THE NELSON MAIL. Mr. WELLS inconsequence of recent changes in the general mail service of the colony, asked the Hon. the Postmaster-General, what provisions had been made for conveying the Southern mails to Nelson, by what means they were to be conveyed, and about what date they might be expected to arrive? The Hon. C. WARD replied, that immediately on the arrival of the English mail, the Storm Bird or Wonga Wonga would convey it to Nelson and run on to Taranaki and Manukaa. NATIVE CROWN GRANTS. r Mr. J. C. RICHMOND in moving - For a Return of all promises of Crown Grants made to persons of the Native race; showing the date of every such promise, the position of the land to be granted, the person by whom, and authority by which such promises were made, whether tbev have been fulfilled or not, and if no', why not, with any other information bearing on the matter ;" said his attention had been particularly drawn to this subject, which had given him great annoyance, by a memorandum of Mr. Dillon Bell's, dated November 11, 1861, from which he read the followiog extract :—" The honor and good faith of the Government are concerned in forthwith considering tbe question and the means of fulfilling the numerous promises which have at various times been made to Natives that they should receive Crown Grants- for land set apart for them. Accompanying papers refer to no less than twenty-two cases in the single Province of Wellington, in which either by special promise, or by some other kind of engagement, the Government has entered into an agreement to issue Crown Grants. Cases are also specified as having occurred in the Province of Hawke's Bay, numerous others are known to exist in the Province of Taranaki, a few apparently in the Province of Auckland, and there is no doubt that similar promises ha»e been made in the Middle Island. The acreage promised to be granted according to the enclosed paperß alone is 7691 acres; hut the total throughout the islands must greatly exceed that quantity." The colony would be anxioub to have these promises fulfilled, and it was extremely desirable they should know the full extent of the evil, that immediate steps might be taken to remedy it. His Excellency had transmitted a despatch to the Duke of Newcastle, dated 9th January, 1862, and printed No. 25, in Papers E—No. 1, requesting to have au Act of Parliament passed without delay, enabling the Government to give grants in fulfilment of such promises, to which course Ministers had given their approval in a Minute on His Excellency's despatch. He was not prepared to say the case was not one in which the Imperial Legislature might have interfered, but the Duke of Newcastle had very properly declined to do so and he was very glad the correspondence had taken place.
The Hon. Mr. FOX seconded ibe motion, pro forma, and laid on the table the return asked for as far as it could be given this session, containing all the particulars required except the person by whom the promises were made, and the reasons if not fulfilled why not, the only answer to which could be, ibat the duty of fulfilling them. rested on the irresponsible Native Department. Neither the House nor any Ministry could be blamed for the neglect. As to the Governor's despatch, it was not unnatural he should take tb*t step on rinding after an eight years' absence that promises made by him just before leaving remained still unfulfilled, and to preserve bis character with the Natives he thought not an hour should be lost in obtaining the necessary legislation tor fulfilling them. The assent given bv Ministers in the Minute referred to, would be found to be a very qualified one.
Mr STAFFORD said he thought the Government could' not fairly throw from its shoulders any odium that might attach to the non-fulfilment of these promises. The hon. gentleman had himself admitted in his Minute the legal impossibility of carrying out the promises as the law stood. Ihe officers of the Native Department were authorized to make the pro. mises but it devolved upon the higher branches of the Government to point out in what way they were to be fulfilled. He was willing to take bis share o. the blame which attached to the late Ministry for not having sought by legislation to enable the promises to be f«i_ filled, the subject having been more than once brought before them. Some blame attached also to the presbnt Ministry, though in less quantity, as they bad been in office less time. The member for the Hutt (Mr. Fi( Z . Herbert), had made a great mistake the other evening, in laying too much stress on the constitutionality of the Ministry. Their approval (though it might be reluctantly given) of His Excellency's despatch was a mistake upon the part of those who, the House waa told, were anxions to retain in the hands of the Colonial Government, the management of Native affairs,—*, mistake which, made by any other Ministry, the bon. member would have been the first to condemn them for. The Hon. W. FOX requested the bon. member to read the minute. There were some technical diffi. cutties in the way, which rendered it doubtful if this House could bave done what was necessary. Mr. STAFFORD read the Minute and remarksd fcj that in it Ministers bad not given that reason for as. j / senting to His Excellency's proceeding. There need not have been a doubt that the General Assembly could legislate on the question. It was not for the Colonial Ministry to support the idea which bad been circulated among the Natives that it was necessary to travel beyond the country to obtain them redress; and be was extremely thankful to the Duke of Newcastle, whose despatch the House would recognise as being (like all the Duke's despatches,) that of a straightforward English gentleman, for refusing to sanction a proceeding which would have been used afterwards to make the Natives suspicious of the intentions of the colonial legislature towards them: and he trusted that before the House was requested to put all Native power in the hands of those gentlemen, to have from tbem an entire abnegation of the idea that they would ever Beek bevond this legislature the means of enforcing their power. Mr. GILLIES wished the motion had been a general one and not one with regard to the Maories only, for be believed there were at least a hundred cases of promises of crown grants to Europeans standing unfulfilled. However jealous the late ministry might have been of going outside the House for power, they were equally jealous in another direction, and took care that as few grants should be issued as possible under ihe power they bad, but now he saw some prospect of a movement in the matter, of settling these promises to both Natives and Europeans ; the present Ministry being desirous, as far as they could, to give effect to existing statutes. He did not think therefore it was fair to charge them with in any way betraying the powers of the House in a matter where there was a doubt aa to whether this House had the necessary power. Mr. DILLON BELL said this hail been a frequent subject of discussion in the Sessions of 1860 and 1861, and when the Assembly was prorogued last yesr he thought it would be an easy and desirable thing to collect together the cases where grants had been promised ; but when he set about it he was staggered with the immense difficulty of ascertaining ths extent of the question. He found that the Crown bad entered into engagements to issue crown grants as part of the consideration for the cession of territory ; other cases, of cession of territory where the natives were to buy land at tbe usual price and get crown grants, and other cases, of reserves for individuals: and be found it was a larger matter than anyone had any idea of, for with some- few exceptions where grants had been given at the time the whole had gone into oblivion—the residents even in the places where the promises were made being in many cases totally ignorant of their existence. In Taranaki there were upwards of a hundred cases where natives bad paid for laud 10s. per acre, and not got the crown grants. The return laid on the table would afford the House valuable information, and would, he trusted, enable them to deal with the question in a summary way. On the other point which had been raised, he agreed that it was the proper function of tbe General Assembly to make the necessary provision for tbe fulfilment of these and similar promises. The late Governor desired the Assembly to place him in a position to make these grants without reference to tbe Ministry, who must be looked upon as the House, and, in fact, as the colony ; and the Governor, when acting without their advice, was the Imperial Government. It mattered little, then, he thought, whether tbe Governor obtained an Act from tbe Imperial Govern, tnent, or asked tbe Assembly for an Act to enable him to deal with the question without consulting his Minis* ters. It would be now desirable to enable the Governor in future to make promises and give grants immediately. Tbe failure in tbe performance of these promises had produced dissatisfaction in tbe minds of a great number of natives, and only that day two chiefs had been to him asking whether they would get a fair hearing at the bar ol the House, and so be enabled to get their grants; upon which he told them to write a letter to the House, which would give it every consideration, and do them all the justice in their power. Mr. J. C. RICHMOND did not agree with Mr. Bell's remarks upon the Governor's proceeding. The Houbb might be perfectly willing to vote money to be disposed of by the Governor alone for native purposes, hut would not approve of bis procuring lrora tbe Imperial Government power to appropriate any of their money without their consent. The natives referred to at Taranaki, in the Hua block, had occupied, fenced, let, and cultivated their lands; had paid taxes in respect of them for making roads, and all they wanted was a legal title. Trusting that something would be done this session to settle all these claims, be begged to withdraw the motion. The motion was, by leave, withdrawn.
COMMISSIONS OF VOLUNTEER AND MILITIA OFFICERS Mr. J. C. RICHMOND moved for a nominal Return of all persons who have held since the year 1853, or who now hold Commissions in the New Zealand Militia or Volunteers, showing the dates and grades of all former Commissions (in both, or either corps, as the case may be) beld by each, as well as the dates and grades of the Commissions now held ; together with the dates of all resignations, and the causes of such resignations, where any have been stated. Motion agreed to. PRIVATE GRIEVANCES. The Petition of Charles St. John Herbert was, on motion of Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON, referred to the Committee on Private Grievances. The Petition of Daniel Keefe and others was also referred to the - Private Grievances Committee on motion of Mr. WILLIAMSON, who explained that Petitioners had selected land under the Regulations of 1855, but having been bona fide residents, though precluded by circumstances from fulfilling the exact letter of ihe law in making the requisite improvements, the Provincial authorities considered that they were fairly entitled to be put in legal possession of their land. LIGHTS IN FOVEAUX STRAITS. Mr. DILLON BELL moved for copies of any correspondence between His Excellency's Government and the Provincial Governments of Southland and Otago, on the subject of lights in Foveaux Straits. Motion agreed to. EARLY PROCEEDINGS OF THE PRESENT SESSION. Mr. CARLE TON moved, That the proceedings in this House, between the time of prayers on the first day of the present session, and the time of the summons to attend tbe Governor in the hall of the Legislative Council, ought not to be drawn into precedent; otherwise be thought it would be the Speaker's duty, if the House should again be placed under similar circumstances, to adjourn the House from day to day, in accordance with the minutes as they stood, instead of merely leaving the chair to resume it when His Excellency should he rnady, as he contended was the proper form, tbe whole period being only one sitting. No discussion took place, and the motion was carried on the following division:— Ayes, 24—Messrs. John Williamson, Butler, R. Graham, Saunders, Stafford, Fitzherbert, Watt, C. J. Taylor, Bell, Nixon, A. J. Richmond, O'Neill, G. Graham, Atkinson, Richardson, J. C. Richmond, Eyes, Curtis, O'Rorke, Wells, Jollie, Munro, Wilson and Carleton (teller). Noes, 9—Messrs. Brandon, Colenso, Domett, Fitzgerald, Russell, T. Waring Taylor, Williamson, Wood, and Gillies (teller). ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN OTAGO. Mr. GILLIES, moved " That a Select Committee be appointed to consider what measures should be taken tor facilitating the administration of justice in the Province of Otago, by the appointment of a permanent Judge of th« Supreme Court for that Province, by providing an interim Judge until a permanent appointment can be made, or otherwise. Committee to consist of the lion. Mr. Fox, Mr. Dillon Bell, Mr. Fitzgerald, Dr. Featherston, Mr. Domett, and Major Richardson. Report to be brought up on 24ih inst." He said that, in the session of 1860, a resolution passed the House by which District Courts were to be abolished, and ano'.her Supreme Court Ju'lge recommended for Otigo. In 1861 a Report by the existing Judges was laid before the House expressing tbe opinion that no more were requiied. But now the appointment of a Supreme Court Judge for Otago had become absolutely necessary. Tbe District Court having been abolished, and the Judge of the Supreme Court not
having been able to try civil cases for a period of eight months, no suits above £2O could be tried. He was aware of the difficulty of obtaining a permanent judge, but some temporary provision must be made immediately, and be therefore moved for the Committee, who might as well also take into consideration the amount of the salaries, which at present were so small that it would be impossible to get gentlemen of high standing and character for the office. Mr. FITZGERALD seconded the motion and regretted it did not go further and include the consideration of the staff for the administration of justice all over the colony and the establishment of a Court of Appeal. Mr. STAFFORD said the interior districts of Marlborough and Nelson and even the town of Nelson itself, frequently laboured under the same difficulties as referred to by the member for Bruce; and moved as an amendment, the addition after the word otherwise of the following, " and generally to consider the whole question of the improvement of the administration of justice throughout the whole colony.'' The Hon. Sir. FOX said the Government was quite prepared to concur in the motion aud would be only too glad to have the assistance and suggestions of a Select Committee on these important subjects. One reason why no step had been taken towards procuring a Judsje for Otago was that the Legislative Council passed a resolution last session expressing their disapprobation of the Ministry having any voice in the appointment of Judges; and the Attorney-General considered it his duty to await the decision ofHerMajeaty's Government upon that, for had they concurred in it a great difficulty would thus have been thrown in the way. It would be seen by papers before the House how entirely the Home Government disclaimed the function as one of theirs. The other reason had been met year by placing a permanent salary on the Civil List for another Judge. It was true that the District Court had been abolished before alterations were made in the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, bnt he did not take much blame to the present Ministry for that, as last session he attempted to re-enact temporarily a Bill giving extended local jurisdiction to Resident Magistrates, but in consequence of the determined opposition of the late member for New Plymouth it was abandoned at a late period of the session. The District Judge of Otago had not been removed but had resigned, and the Resident Magistrate at Nelson bad positively refused to accept the extended powers offered him under the District Court Act, or so much inconvenience would not have been felt there. Motion as amended agreed to. REMISSION OF SUPREME COURT SENTENOEB. Mr. FITZGERALD moved for a Return of all persons who, since the first day of January 1860, have been convicted before the Supreme Court, and whose sentences bare been in whole or in part remitted by His Excellency the Governor, together with copies of all correspondence with the Judge of the Supreme Court in each case, and with any other persons, relating to the remission of every such sentence, and also all Memoranda setting forth the grounds of the remission of such sentence in each case. Motion agreed to. PETITION OP THE TWO SHIRLEY'S. On motion of Mr. COLENSO, the Petition presented from the two Shirley's was ordered to be printed. NATIVE AFFAIRS AT TIMARU. Mr. JOLLIE moved for copies of any conespondence relating to the Maori Reserve at Arowhenua near Tiroaru, or to the management of Native Affairs in that District of the Province of Canterbury, Motion agreed to, CROWN GRANTS BILL. The Hon. Mr. CROSBIE WARD in moving fh« second reading of a Bill to facilitate the preparation and issue of Crown Grants, said the object of this Bill had been recognized by the House in previous sessions to be a very desiiable one, viz,, to alter the place of signature and issue of Grants from Auckland, or other place where the Government might be stationed, to the respective Provinces in which the land was sold, and cause them to be signed by the Superintendents on behalf of the Governor ; thus avoiding the disagreeable necessity of sending tbe Grants from one part of tbe colony where they were made to another part to be signed, a proceeding which not only involved great risk and delay but also prevented that close examination of the Grant which could not be properly made away from tho place where were tbe plans and records connected with it, and which was necessary to ensure that it was the document that ought to be issued to the person named. These weie tbe three great points to be secured, rapidity of preparation, safety, and the faithfulness of the Grant as a document witnessing a transaction between the Crown and an individual. The machinery by which tbis object was sought to be gained might appear at first sight cumberous and complicated but it was not more so than that now in use, and when in actual operation it would be found not complicated at all but very easy. Every Grant would pass through three examinations, viz., by the Crown Lands Commissioner, tbe Receiver of Land Revenue, and the Provincial Surveyor, and if all these said it was right it would be signed and issued in the quickest manner. By tbis Bill it was proposed to associate with the Superintendent in each Province, two other persons forming with him a Commission, to sign and seal (with a seal of their own) the Crown Grants. The Commissioners might fitly be the Chief Surveyor and tbe Commissioner of Crown Lands. In order to get the Grunt properly issued it was proposed to pass it to the Registrar of Deeds to register it and keep it safe tor the applicant. In order to keep people from leaving their Grants in the office, which many did on account of the £\ fee, he proposed the £1 should be paid in advance, together with the purchase money of the land. This issue of Crown Grants being a matter in which it con-' cerned the faith of the Crown to see that every sale made by its authority to an individual was done rightly nnd properly and evidenced as it ought to be by this Deed j machinery was introduced lor the purpose which apparently tended to complicate the matter. A copy of each Grant and the certificate* of each officer was to be made concurrently with tbe documents themselves, for the General Government. This would really involve no more trouble than bad to be gone through now in the Secretary for Crown Land's Office, while he would be saved from the anxiety of mind attendant upon signing Grants, of the correctness of which he knew nothing. If the House passed the Act in its present shape they would have achieved a great step towards what should be the end and aim of all who bad to deal with the lands of the colony, viz.:—leaving the least possible time between the day when a purchaser paid bis money and tbe day when be got bis final instrument entitling him in every Court of law to the possession of his land. If tbis Bill helped to bring any nearer the day which should see tbe last claim on the wsste lands, he, recollecting that be bad bad the honour to move tbe second reading, would feel that he had done one pood day's work. Mr. FITZGERALD thought it desirable that the House should spend some little time in discussing a . measure like this, and he rose more for the purpose of setting the example and raising a discussion than of offering any opposition to the Bill or expressing a strong opinion of his own. With every disposition to bow to the opinions of the Government he had been a little shocked at reading this Bill. The hon. gentlemen had given them the strongest argument in its favour when he said it was necessary to relieve him from the great anxiety of mind under which be been suffering. A greater nuisance, certainly did not exist than that Grants prepared in the Provinces should be sent up for revision to tbe seat of Government, which was like appealing from a superior to an inferior Court, as whoever of the central Government it was referred to, he would know less about it than those by whom it was prepared. If tbe idea was absurd of sending up copies for the Government it was absurd then to talk of the necessity of protecting the Crown. For who was the Crown? His hon. friend the mover, so far as this question was concerned; and there was no reason why " the Crown" should not be as well represented by a Superintendent as by a man holding a Commission signed by the Governor. A system had been going on of taking away by little and little the powers of the Provincial Government, a process considered by many hon. members in this House and the other, a desirable one ; but they had not supposed tbat to be the view of the hon. gentlemen at the ministerial table. They had supposed the bon. mover to be one who held the opinion that whatever could be done in the Provinces ought to be so done by the Constitutional Government of the Province. But bv this Bill they were going to lake the power of issuing Grants from the Crown seal and give it to authorities in the Province specially appointed for the purpose by the General Government. If they were to pass such a Bill as this, let them go at once to the root of the matter aud say there should be no Governments in this Colony independent of the C'own. If Superintendents were appointed by the Government, this Bill would never have been heard of, for as a matter of course the Government would have delegated his authority to the Superintendents. Then the large machinery detailed in this Bill for the issue of Grants,— he much doubted if that was an improvement. The validity of the Grant was imperilled by putting into aa Act of Parliament every liiile step of the process, anv of which being wanting the Grant would consequently not be valid. Some of these processes, moreover, were already provided for. Then, if the ' Grant was issued in the Province, he did not see why ; they should go to tbe trouble of sending it to ihe Go- [ vwnor at all. Then it was required to be sent to the ' Registry Office making the registry au act of the Responsible Government in contravention of the principle ■ that every one should register hia owe property, On j
the whole, be was tempted to oppose the Bill as he did not see much hope of getting a more Provincial policy introduced into it in Committee; though the hon. gentleman in opposition would probably sacrifice partly to principle to pass the Bill. He bad no doubt his hon. friend the mover would have been glad to see a Bill pissed by which the whole power should be thrown into the hands of the Provincial authorities, but knowing he could not hope to pass such a Bill, was willing to take as much as he could get. Mr. COLENSO thought the Bill 100 Provincial. It would be unsatisfactory to the people, because they look to the Crown as the source from which they get their lands. In answer to some of the remarks of the Post-master-General, he would mention that Crown grants under the present system went through all those three " mills," the Receiver of Land Revenue, Commissioner of Crown Lands, and Chief Surveyor of the Province, and yet errors had been detected in them at Auckland. His principal objection to the Bill was that it was contrived to increase the political powers of Superintendents. It would also increase the expense to small Provinces. This Bill, by requiring Crown grants to be issued at once, would multiply their number, parties, especially among the working classes, often buying neighbouring small allotments at different periods, which were allowed to stand over and all put into one grant. For these reasons he would oppose the second reading, but, if it passed, would endeavour to amend it in Committee. Mr. CARLETON said that on a little reflection it would be seen that this Bill unduly increased the powers of one branch of the Legislature, both branches having been intended by the Constitution Act to be equal. A Superintendent was the worst person in whom the powers of these Commissioners should be vested. When a Superintendent became a Commissioner, he would be exposed to the temptation to use it as a means of increasing his political power. Ho scarcely knew what course to take with regard to this Bill; but he feared the risk of trusting to amendments being made in Committee was too great to allow the second reading to pass on the strength of them. He should not call for a division; but, if there wetc one called for, he should vote against the Bill. Mr. O'NEILL thought if the Bill was to be brought into operation at all the Superintendent was the most proper person to exercise the powers; but he would rather himself wait for a grant from the Governor. He should support the Bill, however, in order that people might sooner get a marketable title—the delay which ordinarily occurred being of serious consequence to some.
Mr. GILLIES thought the idea a most extraordinary one that this would go to increase the political power of Superintendents. They were merely Executive handles for putting the seal on. The Governor could not be forced to sign a grant; but let a Superintendent refuse, and the Supreme Court would be able to compel him to perform his duty. Therefore grantees would be in a much better position than if the power of signature was restricted to the Governor. He agreed with the hon. member for Ellesmere tiiat there was no use in all this machinery of Commissioners. In 18G0, a Bill was introduced similar to this, and this part of it was objected to then, hut the Commissioners were left in, because the then Ministry refused to allow the Bill to pass without them. These Commissioners would not be any extra safeguard, ft* it was on the Commissioner of Crown Lands, the Receiver of Land Revenue, and the Chief Surveyor, that they must depend. In the General Government office no information was available that could prevent the Governor actually signing the same grant a second time. He should endeavour to have the Superintendent made the sole Commissioner, the Superintendent being for the time the highest representative of the Crown in the Province. As to delivering the grant to the Registrar, that he appreheuded was to bring the Land Registry Act into operation—that Bill providing that all Crown Grants should be registered before being issued. He thought it would be a hardship to have to pay down 20s. on every purchase. On the whole, he considered the Act one which the House should allow to go into Committee with the view of making several desirable amendments in it. Mr. J. CRACROFT WILSON would vote for the Bill, subject to alterations in Committee, and, having suffered himself from a delay of 8 years in the issue of a Crown grant, he would do his utmost to pass through the House a Bill for accelerating the issue of such grants.
Major RICHARDSON thought the Bill contained all the essential elements of a good practical Bill. The power of checking Crown grants residing solely with the Provincial authorities. The principle of this Bill was a correct one, and it should be allowed to go into Committee.
Mr. DOMETT supported the Bill. He could not understand the objection that it would increase the political power of Superintendents. He did not believe it would do so in the way of permitting them corruptly to part with the Crown lands, or to show favoritism; but it would doubtless increase the importance of their position to invest them with a power generally considered as a kind of royal function peculiar to the Crown and Governor. He approved of the checks put upon the Superintendents in tbe exercise of their power, by coupling with them the Commissioners proposed. It would be a considerable hardship, be agreed with the member for Napier, to require the payment of a £1 on every purchase of a section; and it would also very considerably increase the work to be done in the offices. The delay in the issue of grants might perhaps have been corrected without delegating the power of signature at all, and this would be preferable, because nine people out of ten would prefer to have their grants signed by the Governor. The chief cause of the delay was the copying in Auckland of all the documents and ■ plans. If everything else necessary was done in the Provincial offices, and the grant sent to His Excellency i merely for his signature, the only delay would be that of transmission, which would not be so very great an ■inconvenience, most people leaving their grants for a considerable time in the office. The plan of sending them to the Registrar would be the cause of as much delay as at present existed, unless a large staff were employed in the Registry office. He should vote for the second reading, but expected to see several amendments made in Committee.
Mr. STAFFORD would not oppose the second reading, especially since by the last clause the Bill was reserved for Her Majesty's assent. The delay in the issue of Crown grants was often unfairly attributed to the General Government; but the chief part of it was ; the delay of the Provincial Governments in sending ' them up for the Governor's signature. Machinery of the sort proposed would not tend to obviate that delay. But it was necessary for accuracy that there should be some delay. Crown grants should be issued with caution, and be should always look with great suspicion on any happy-go-lucky method of preparing these important documents. Mr. BELL could not conceive what advantage there was in the signature of the Governor over that of the Superintendent, all a man wanted being simply a document showing that he was the owner. Some hon. members appeared to forget the spirit of all the legislation in this House on the subject of the Waste Lands since 1856. The power of the Government, indeed, in signing Crown grants was nothing as compared with the powers they had granted to the Waste Lands Boards of the Provinces. Though accepting the Bill as an instalment of improvement, he considered the basis it proceeded upon to be entirely objectionable. The proper Executive officer for the issue of Crown grants was, in those Provinces where the administration of Wasf Lands was vested in the Superintendent, the Superintendent himself, and, in those Provinces where ii was not so vested, the Commissioners of Crown lands, who should have the power not of signing but of affixing a seal. He had recorded his own individual protest since 1853 against any plan of issuing Crown grants except this simple one ; and the day would certainly come when this course would be considered not only the easiest and most expeditious, but also as affording the best check and the utmost security.
The Hon. Mr. WARD, in replying, referred to tbe objection which had been roised against the constitution of the commission. If they had to delegate powers belonging to tbe Governor to tbe people of anv place where there was no Superintendent, all would ao-ree that tbe commission should embrace about three persons —at all events not less. Thit such a certificate of title should issue from any Province without the name of tbe Superintendent would be a great mistake. Tbe actual check placed upon him by allying him with two othercommisMonersamounted, m fact, to very little, as there was nothing to check tbe Superintendent in. A large amount of work was placed upon him without any additional dignity or power. As the principal officer of tbe Province, he simply placed bis name to a certificate of a sale of land under the regulations of the Province. Under the present system, though discrepancies in MSS. spelling of names", acreage, &c. might be fouud out, and often caused considerable delay, the most important errors, anything wrong with regard to the land itself, which the Government purported to record as belonging to a certain person, could not he found out at all in Auckland. To avoid these errors, and, at the same time, secure despatch, was the ohject of the bill of which he now moved the seci>ud reading. Bill read a second time, and ordered to be committed presently. CROWN LANDS' BILL. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. WARD, a bill to confer additional powers on tbe Commissioners of Crown Lands was read a second time, and ordered to be committed, on Tuesday,
COMMITTEE OF SCTTLT. On motion of the COLONIAL TREASURER, the House went into Committee of Supply, and part of His Excellency's speech relating to supply was read to the Committee. It was then resolved on the motion of the COLONIAL TREASURER, that a supply be granted. The resolution haviug been reported by the CHAIRMAN to the house, it was ordered to be considered on Tuesday. Committee to sit again on Wednesday next. CROWN GRANTS BILL IN COMMITTEE. The House having resolved itself into committee on tbis bill, a further discussion took place on amendments moved by Mr. Fitzgerald and Mr. Gillies. Mr. Gillies' motion to insert the Superintendent in the Act instead of the Commissioner was negatived by 28 to 4. For the amendment—Messrs. Fitzgerald, Gillies, O'Rorke.and Dillon Hell—4. Against it—Messrs. Atkinson, Butler, Colenso, Curtis, Domett, Eyes, G. Graham, R. Graham, Jollie, Mason, Munro. Nixon, O'Neill, Richardson, A. J. Richmond, J. C. Richmond, Rhodes, Stafford, C. J. Taylor, W. W. Taylor, Watt, Ward, Wells, James Williamson, John Williamson, Wilson, and Wood—2S. Mr. Fitzgerald's amendment, which was negatived without a division, was to the effect that the Superintendent should exercise the powers of the bill of himself, instead of being commissioned by the Governor. Several unimportant amendments having been made in the bill, progress Was reported, and the bill was ordered to be further considered in Committee on Tuesday. AUDIT COMMITTEE. The SPEAKER informed the House that in conformity with tbe provisions of tbe Audit Act, he appointed next Thursday as the day for electing an Audit Commi:tee. The House then adjourned at half-past nine o'clock. TUESDAY, JULY 22xd, 1862. The SPEAKER took the Chair at 12 o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Thomas Dick, Esq., took the oath and his seat for the Town of Dunedin. PAPERS. The Hon. Mr. WOOD laid on the table continued Return of Expenditure of the £15,000 War Loan. The Hon. Mr. FOX laid on the table Papers relating to an Inquest lately held on the body of a Native at Wanganui. Ordered to be printed. BILL TO REGULATE STEAM VESSELS AND LIGHTS. The Hon. Mr. CROSBIE WARD obtained leave to introduce a Bill to regulate Steam Vessels and the Boats and Lights to be carried by seagoing vessels. Bill read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time to-morrow. GOLD-FIELDS COMMITTEE. The Hon. Mr. WARD moved, That a Select Committee be appointed to enquire into the condition and prospects of the Gold Fields of the colony, and to consider and report whether any, and what further legislation is necessary on the subject. To consist of Major Richardson, Mr. John Williamson, Mr. Stafford, Mr. R. Graham, Mr. A. J. Richmond, Mr. Gillies, Mr. Fitzgerald, and Mr. Russell. Motion agreed to. PAPERS PRINTED. On the motion of tbe Hon. Mr. FOX the Returns relative to Crown Grants promised to Natives, were ordered to be printed. NATIVE RESERVES. Mr. MANTELL moved for copies of all correspondence relative to the Native Reserves in the Town of Dunedin and Port Chalmers. Motion agreed to. APPOINTMENT OF MR. GRESSON. Mr. STAFFORD in moving that a respectful address be presented to His Excellency the Governor, requesting His Excellency to cause to be laid on the table of this House, a copy of His Excellency's Despatch to His Grace the Duke of Newcastle, No 27 of the 26th November 1861, relative to the appointment of Mr. G res son as a Judge of the Supreme Court of New Zealand or of any Memorandum from His Excellency's Ministers on the subject in addition to Mr. Sewell's Memorandum of the 19th August 1861, —said his motive was to ascertain tbe views taken by His Excellency on tbe question of the appointment of judges. He would also take this opportunity of making some remarks with respect to the somewhat erroneous impresaion conveyed to the public by a statement made by His Honor the Chief Justice in a speech made in another place last Session, which be had not seen till after the Session was closed when His Honor's illness had prevented him (Mr. S.) from communicating with the Chief Justice before he leu Auckland. In alluding to the appointment of judges by the Ministry and the political bias tbat would be likely to influence such appointments, His Honor instanced that already be believed that the late Ministry had had pressure put upon them by voters at Nelson, (which constituency he Mr. S., had the honor to represent) with regard to the appointment of a Judge for the Supreme Court. He had since pointed out to His Honor that no such pressure had ever taken place, that no electors or nonelectors at Nelson or elsewhere, neither before nor since, in or out of office, had ever solicited him to appoint any relation or friend to a judgeship of tho Supreme Court. When the Governor's despatch was laid on tbe table he would take an early opportunity of bringing before thy House tbe whole question of the appointment of Judges of the Supreme Court; be would only further state now tbat he concurred to a considerable extent in the views expressed by the late Government that it was not intended by the framers of the "Supreme Court Act, 1858'' that the appointment of the Judges should be entirely in the hands of the Colonial Ministry. • Mr. FOX said the Government would have no objection to make this Return. The dispatch appeared to have been omitted from tbe printed papers, either accidently or, as be believed, because it contained no important remarks bearing on tbe principle in question. Motion agreed to. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES. j Mr. DILLON BELL brought up an interim Report 1 from the Library and Printing Committee recommending tbat the books lost in the White Swan be replaced; that a larger sum be voted for the Library this year and the fees for Private Bills be appropriated towards it, and a resolution with reference to the Printing of the Session. Mr. BELL also brought up the Report of the Military Defence Committee's Minutes, Committee recommending that these Minutes in question be entrusted to the Executive Council of the Colony. TARANAKI VOLUNTEERS. Mr. ATKINSON moved, For all correspondence between Capt. J. N. Watt, Taranaki Rifle Volunteers, and the Deputy Adjutant-General relating to the position of the Taranaki Voluuteer Force under the new Regulations, together with any letter, despatcb, or minute of Lieut.-General Cameron upon tbe subject of the rank and precedence of the officers of Militia and Volunteers. Also, for all correspondence between Capt. J. N. Watt, Taranaki Rifle Volunteers, Col. Warre, C.8., Capt. Stapp, Taranaki Militia, the Deputy-Adjutant-General, and Lieut.-General Cameron, upon the occasion of Capt. Stapp having in May last been placed in arrest by Col. Warre, C.B. Also, for all correspondence between Col. Warre, C.8., Captain Burton, Taranaki Militia, tbe Deputy-Adjutant-General, and I.ieut.-General Cameron, upon the subject of the command of the Taranaki Militia. Motion agreed to. GENERAL GOVERNMENT OFFICERS. Mr. CURTIS moved, For a Return of all persons appointed to any office by the General Government, between the 12th day of January, 1862, and the 12th day of July, 1562, with the amounts of salary attached to. any such office. Motion agreed to.
Mr. EYES moved, For leave of tbe House to enlarge the Select Committee appointed to consider and report upon'the subject of Communications to and from and within the Colony to twelve Members. He made tbis motion because the Committee already comprised its full number, and two Provinces were unrepresented. The motion having been agreed to, he moved, That the names of the Hon. the Speaker, and Mr. Atkinson be added to the Committee on Communications, which was also agreed to without discussion DRILLED MEN IN THE AUCKLAND MILITIA. Major NIXON moved, For a Return showing the number of Dischaaged Soldiers and Pensioners, the number of Civilians who have been drilled ,and the number of Civilians who have been enrolled but not drilled in each of the Battalions of the Auckland Regiment of Militia. Agreed to. NUMBER OF ELECTORS ON THE ROLL. Mr. O'RORKE movtd, That there be laid on the table of the House, a Return of the number of Electors on the Several Electoral Rolls for 1861-62 of tbe districts returning Meinbars to the House of Represeuta* tives. Agreed, to.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE COMMITTEE. On the motion of Mr. STAFFORD the name of Mr. Russell was added to the Committee on the improvement of the administration of justice. PAPERS. The Hon. Mr. WARD laid on the table Regulations of the Otago Gold-Fields under tbe Gold-Fields Act, and correspondence relative to the position of the De-puty-Commissary General in New Zealand; and moved that the latter be printed. Mr. STAFFORD, with reference to these papers, said he observed some remarks by the Deputy Commissary General with reference "to a speech of his as reported in the Southern Cross. It was an unfortunate concurrence that the officer should have sent that home, as what he (Mr. S.) had really said; for a day or two after the delivery of that speech, he had a letter from General Cameron, asking him if that were to be taken as truly representing what he had said It so happened that neither paper had given his exact words, but tbe New Zea'andcr had substantially given his meaning. He wrote therefore to General Cameron, stating that, and entirely disavowing what had been printed in the Southern Cross; after which he received a second letter from the General to say that ho was entirely satisfied with the explanation. Mr. Jones then should have sent home the report stated by him (Mr. S.) to be a fair one, for he could not doubt that General Cameron must have shewn this correspondence to Mr. Jones, ho having brought the question before the General's notice. CROWN LANDS DILL. The Crown Lands Bill was then considered in Committee for two or three hours and ordered to be further considered on Thursday. CROWN GRANTS BILL. The House then went into Committee further to consider the Crown Grants Bill, and at five o'clock progress was reported and the Bill ordered to he further considered on Thursday. RESOLUTION OF SUPPLY. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Wood, the Resolutions passed in the Committee of Supply, on Friday last, were read a second time and adopted. The House then adjourned till 7 o'clock. NATIVE LANDS REGULATION BILL. The hon. Mr. FOX, on moving for leave to introduce a Bill to "regulate the disposal of Native lands," said, I arise with a greater feeling of responsibility than what may seem justified by a mere motion of course; but as it is understood that I am to make on this occasion a statement of the Native policy of the Government, I am aware that the House will expect to hear from me a full account of what we have done and mean to do in reference to the subject. I might perhaps reply to the request which has been made to me to do so in the words of Sir Walter Raleigh's mother, when her son asked her for information, " Read and you will know," for I can add but very little to the mass of information laid on the table of the House, and with which I have no doubt most hon. members have made themselves acquainted. But, sir, lam aware from the public press that many misapprehensions do exist in the minds of persons outside this House, in reference to this subject, and possibly may also pervade the minds of members in it, and if I can remove some of them I shall be glad to do it. I shall also by this course give the Government the benefit of that fair and candid criticism which I have no doubt will be bestowed upon the policy of the Government, and which, if bestowed in that spirit, cannot but be conducive to the public good. One misapprehension which has existed, and been very industriously circulated, may be attended with the most injurious effects, is as to the parentage of the Native policy. I have seen it repeatedly stated by some of the public journals that that policy is the policy of the Governor only—that his Ministers have had no hand in it —and only give a blind and unreasoning acquiesence in it; that consequently it is a mere Imperial question with which the Colony has nothing to do, but sit still and look on. On tho other hand, other journals have asserted that the policy is that of the Ministry alone, that tho Governor stands aloof in the spirit of some grim Mephistophales, waiting for the time when his Ministers having disgracefully failed, he may step in as a " Deus e machind," and thrust them and their policy on one side; and in one journal I have seen both views asserted within three months of each other. Now this may seem a small matter in itself, but if it causes distrust either in the Native mind or tho European, it may impose serious obstacles in the way of our practical work. I am therefore desirous of exposing the falsehood of all these varioas assertions. The policy is His Excellency's policy; but has, and has had from the first, the full, cordial, and thorough concurrence of his, Ministers, who are earnestly devoting themselves to the task of carrying it into operation. Reference to a few documents will make this matter clear, and show that not only are the Governor and his Ministers joinlty parties to the Native policy, but that the Imperial Government has itself suggested and approved beforehand of the very course which we have adopted in the Colony. I beg to refer to the following passages from His Excellency's despatches, as shewing how the plan originated with him:—
I have had frequent and anxious consultations with the Ministers regarding the future ; and if the present crises is got over, and peace established, 1 think I see my way quite clearly to the introduction of plans which will completely and lastingly set upon a proper footing the interests and mutual relations of the Native and European races. I am unwilling to speak too confidently on so extremely difficult a subject, and I desire to say nothing that seems rash or presumptuous : but if peace can be established, I really think I can shortly introduce institutions which will satisfactorily solve the whole question, and establish Her Majesty firmly in the affections of Her Native subjects in New Zealand. In the meantime, I beg to inform your Grace that the general features of the policy I propose are—not to be hurried into a renewal of military operations, if these can be advantageously avoided: to immediately introduce into all such parts of this Island as will receive them (and I hope this will embrace nearly the whole Island) Institutions suited to the present circumstances and future growth of the country, and which will supply a want of which the Maoris have long complained; and, lastly, to use the present time of intermission of military operations to secure all the friends.l can, so as to reduce the number of our enemies, narrow as far as possible the territories hostile to us, and place, by the establishment of law and order ill Native districts, as many ojt-settlements as possible in a state of security in the event of being forced, contrary to my desire, to continue the war. I have so carefully considered all points connected with this proposed plan of proceeding, have discussed them with so many able persons, and have so completely met all objections they have raised, that I feel quite satisfied, when my report reaches your Grace, you will feel that I have done what you would desire. I have also in my project the hearty concurrence and co-operation of the New Zealand Ministry. —And when following these deliberate statements of His Excellency, I assure this House that the plan for the civil government of the Natives was His Excellency's own, written by his own hand and submitted to his responsible Ministers, —I think I have shewn beyond cavil or doubt that His Excellency at all events is entitled to be regarded as its author. Now, as regards his Ministers, their known opinions often declared in this House make it certain that they, of all men, would be sure to concur in His Excellency's plan. I need hardly refer to the part which my colleague the Attorney-General and myself took in reference to the Waikato Committee, nor to the opinions expressed in our report. But I will quote one or two passages from speeches delivered by myself as leader of the Ministry in this House during the last session. Immediately after taking office I expressed myself te the following effect, while enunciating the Native policy of the Government: —
A third principle on which we would act is this, —to use the Natives in working out the problem. Without this we can hope for no success. To impose laws upon them, to give them piles of statutes, to enact "Territorial Rights Bills" or "Mixed Settlements Bills" nothing will come of that, we must engage them in the work themselves and let it proceed from them. To this end we look to the " Runanga" or native council as the point d'appui to which to attach the machinery of self-govern-ment and by which to connect them with our own institutions. The Native Office shudders at the "Runanga," and sees nothing but evil in it. We see nothing but good, provided, as the member for Napier says, we make the proper use of it. The runanga Contains the elements ofiocal self-government in itself —it is the Parliament, the Municipal Council, thesubstitute for the Press ; and by its machinery the Native mind can be stirred in a few days from end to end of the island. We have no choice but to use it—it exists as a fact—it is part of the very existence of the Maori—we can no more put it down than we can stay the advancing waves of the rising tide; and if we do not use it for good purposes, it will assuredly be used against us for bad. These, then, are the three great principles of our policy —to' treat the Maories as men, as men of like feelings with ourselves,—to avail ourselves of the grent movement of the national mind as one which has law and order for its objects,— and to encourage the Runanga under legal sanctions. But bevond all this we must offer them political institutions for their own self-government based as far as possible on those already existing among them, much of which was very analogous to the machinery of Government existing among our Saxon ancestors, particularly the runanga to which he looked as the means of their political connection with us. The institutions of Government so established should be worked under European agency, but as far as possible by the Natives themselves in all this, Mr. Fox continued, there is little that has not been proposed by others—perhaps there is nothing new. But what is new is the manner in which we propose to bring the subject before the Natives. We do not believe in negociations carried on by a brief and dry abstract on paper nor by the agency of some subordinate official. What His Excellency's advisers will suggest is, that the Government of the Colony should meet the Natives face to face, discuss the whole question i « large, explain out tm\ remove their objections, and thus
establish that confidence which they have jever yet reposed in us, but which must be secured if we are to do any good.
—Now, when there is added to this expression of our principles beforehand, our memoranda on His Excellency's plan, after he had submitted it to us, to be found in the papers before the House, there seems little room for supposing that we are either blindly following where we do not approve, or giving; any other than a cordial and cainest co-operation. Then, as to the Imperial Government, 1 beg to call the attention of the House to a very remarkable despatch from the Duke of Newcastle, written before Sir George Grey had even arrived in the Colony, in which he foreshadows some such plan as His Excellency was actually iraming in the Colony while the Duke's despatch was on its way out: —
This language appears to me to signify one of t-»o things—either that we roust avail ourselves of the presence of a superior force to extort from the Maoris a verbal admission of the Queen's rights and an abandonment of obnoxious phrases, or that we must avail ourselves of that force in order so to break their power that they will never again dare or be able to re-assert their claim to independence of Colonial authority. The first of these courses would be merely nugatory. A form of phrase imposed by superior force will never prevent the Natives from reclaiming substantial independence (if they are inclined to do so) the moment that force is removed.
The second implies a desperate, tedious, and expensive war, to which it is impossible to look forward without horror. I think that nothing oiild be more impolitic or unfortunate than to allow a sanguinary quarrel to spring up, in order to settle a question of language with uncivilized tribes who do not understand the significance of the terms which they use or those which we offer for their acceptance. Whatever those terms may be, I should hope with Sir William Martin that just and effective government, by giving the Natives what they are blindly feeling after, would eventually throw the King movement into the shade; and I hold that the great object which may be accomplished by the temporary presence of a large force in the Colony, is not so much to terrify the Maoris, as to give them confidence in our just intentions by shewing that the demands which we make upon them, and the measures which we may adopt towards them while they are to a certain extent at our mercy, are not of an oppressive or vindictive character, but are dictated by a desire to secure the common well-being of both races in New Zealand. If these views are correct, it would follow that armed force should not be used for the mere purpose of exacting from the Maoris a verbal renunciation of the so-called King. We should endeavour, really, to attain the same object by seizing the present opportunity to introduce into Native Districts the beginnings of law and order, and so to wean their minds from foolish and dangerous ideas; partly by the sense of good government, and partly by the observation of the power, dignity and emoluments which we are prepared to give to the Chiefs through whom, acting in concert with the Queen's officers, the Native government must be carried on, and who in the course of this government must gradually fall more and more under the influence of the constituted European authorities. This is no new experiment, but a tried policy which has succeeded in different quarters and different ages of the world, and it is peculiarly free from prospective danger where, as in the present case, the same independent authority which it is proposed to foster is to be committed to those whose power cannot fail from natural causes steadily to decline.
—I think, the hon. member continued, I have swept away those misapprehensions as to the harmony of opinion existing between the Governor, his Ministers and the Home Government; have shown that no shadow or particle of difference exists among them, and that whoever may be the parent of the plan, its principles are concurred in by them all, and they are all thoroughly earnest in their determination to carry those principles into practical operation. Another point on which I have no doubt the House will be anxious to have some fuithcr information, is that of the relations existing between His Excellency and his advisers—in other words, how far they have united to establish the principle of ministerial responsibility in Native affairs, and what they propose in respect of it for the future. The Government has acted cautiously but frankly in the matter. Immediately on His Excellency's arrival Ministers laid before him the memorandum on the subject of the Native Secretary's department printed among the papers, but made no suggestion. His Excellency drew his own inferences, and the result was the immediate subordination of that department to the fall control of Ministers. His Excellency reported to the Home Government on the subject to the effect that he intended to carry on his Native administration through his responsible advisers. Ministers accepted practically of the position, but abstained from reducing to writing the precise limits of their relations to His Excellency, leaving them to be determined by circumstances. On one point, however, they exercised peculiar caution, not to commit, or attempt to commit, the Colony without the sanction of the House: he meant the finance of the Native policy. On this they advised His Excellency as follows:
Ministers do not shrink from the responsibility of adopting plans involving so large an expenditure. On the contr.try they consider that circumstances absolutely require it; and require also that the emergency should be faced at once. It would be idle to attempt the solution of existing difficulties by proposing plans for the social improvement of the natives, dependent on possible votes of the General Assembly. But His Excellency must not misapprehend the extent to which Ministers can pledge the colony in a matter of finance. They can and will recommend to the General Assembly to make the requisite provision for the intended objects, and they can and will stake their own position as Ministers, on the Assembly adopting their recommendation ; but they have no constitutional power to bind the Assembly beforehand.
—Now, in the course they had pursued,l am confident that the House will approve of the conduct of the members, viewed only by the light of the circumstances in which they were placed, and the emergency of the case; but if any further justification were necessary, it is to be found in the resolution of the House passed last session, which distinctly enumerates that the time had arrived for subjecting the Native administration of the Colony to the responsible Ministry. This resolution was as follows: — 5. That any reconstruction of the Land Purchase Department on a satisfactory basis necessarily involves also an entire reorganization of the political branch of that service; and that no such re-organization will be effectual or satisfactory to the country which does not, while fully recognizing and securing to the Governor both the initiative and its decisive where imperial interests are involved, place the conduct of the ordinary business of Nitive administration under responsibility to the Assembly. 6. That while the Committee believe that provision will be cheerfully made to whatever amount shall be requisite for organizing the Native service on a sound and efficient basis, so as alike to retain the good will of the Natives and create the confidence which has never yet been felt by the colonists, they declare their conviction that the House cannot justly be expected in any future session to pass estimates for perpetuating the existing system. —So much for the past in reference to this subject. Now as regards the future. I know that a sense of alarm has been created in the minds of some persons by a resolution passed recently in the House of Commons, to the effect that all Colonies possessing representative institutions must for the future be prepared to bear the principal cost of their own internal defence; and from this inferred that if we attempted to establish a ministerial responsibility in Native affairs, we should be made liable for all the cost of military and naval assistance from the Imperial Government. Now I beg those gentlemen who stand aghast at this awful resolution to observe that it is directed not against Colonies possessing "Responsible Government," but "Representative Institutions," and if we would avoid the consequences which it is supposed attach to its operation, we must not only repudiate Responsible Government, but pray Parliament to repeal our Constitution in toto. We need not be afraid of this bugbear. The resolution is directed against all the Colonies enjoying self-government, and is intended as a wholesome warning not to involve themselves unnecessarily in troubles with internal enemies, in the hope that they can have the services of the British army for nothing. But whatever be the meaning of this resolution, I do not see how we can get rid of Ministerial responsibility in Native affairs. The supposition that we can rests upon a fallacy which underlies the position of those who have argued this question elsewhere; I allude to a series of documents which will be found in the Appendixes of this House for 1860, from the pen of my esteemed friends the Hon. Mr. Swainson, the Venerable Archdeacons Maunsell and Kissling, and others. Those gentlemen argue on the injustice of submitting to the legislature of a representative body the interests of the Natives who have no representation there. Now the fallacy of this argument lies in the supposition that the question is one of the government of the Natives inter se. But in fact it is not the government of the Natives, but the regulation of the relations between the Natives and Europeans, which constitutes the problem we have to solve. The interests of the two races in this Island are so inextricably wound up, so interminably interlaced, that it is impossible to sever them, and if you attempt to draw the line, you will find it utterly impossible. Either you must submit to the Responsible Government innumerable questions which affect the Natives, or you must hand over to an irresponsible Native Department innumerable questions which affect the Europeans. There is no way of escape, and which would be the wisest course there can be little doubt. Besides this it is impossible to work the new Institutions under the existing law on any other principle. The whole of the machinery created by the Legislature ot 1858 is subject to the Governor in Council, not a district can be assigned, not a magistrate appointed, not a step of any sort taken but by the Governor in Council. If yon abandon Responsible Government you must alter all this. Will this House retrace its steps bv" repealing those acts or altering them in this particular ? But suppose you do refuse to admit Responsible Government and deny your liability for the acts of the Governor acting without his Responsible Advisers, will your repudiation of liability protect you ? Do uot believe it. The Home Government will not relax Its hold if it thinks the circumstances of the case justly imposes liability upon you. No amount of protest will clear vqp, of liability hi such case; and if you attempt
to assume such a position in any niggardly spirit, or in any spirit of distrust of the liberality of the Home Government, vou will not be likely to be the more favourably dealt with by it. Besides all tins I feel bound to ask you in what position you will place tho Governor by refusing to share with him tho responsibility of Native administration. Let me call your attention to the expression of his opinion on this subject in his despatch to the Duke of Newcastle. He writes as follows: Under this syttem there would be two Governments in the Colony, which not only would not always aid one another, but which would sometimes act at cross purposes with each other. At the present crisis it is quite impossible that Her Majesty * Government could be advantageously carried on under such a system. I therefore immediately arranged to consult my Responsible Ministers in relation to Native affairs, in the same manner as upon all other subjects, and in like manner to act though them in relation to all Native matters. If any serious difference takes place between us upon these subjects, I must, as in other cases, resort to other advisers, and appeal in fact to the General Assembly. Your Grace will, I have no doubt, inform me if you wish me to discontinue this arraugement; but I think, it would be well to leave it permanently in operation until difficulties arise under it, which I do not see any probability of. Any attempt to set up either the Governor or any special body between the Natives and the General Assembly as a protective power for the Natives against the presumed hostility of that body, will, I fear, produce au ill effect upon the Native mind, as making them regard, the Assembly as their admitted natural enemies; whilst it will perhaps create in the minds of the General Assembly some prejudice against the Natives and against what may be done for them, and a carelessness for their interests, with the protection of which the Assembly would be in no way charged. Under the system I have adopted the Governor and Ministers act as mutual checks each upon the other. If either of them wishes to force on some proceeding which the other party regards as unjust to the Natives, or as injurious to their reasonable interests, it is known to both that the ultimate appeal must be made to the General Assembly, and that the justness of the intentions of each party will become a matter of public discussion. It is, therefore, reasonable to think that each of them would carefully consider the grounds on which they were acting, before incurring the risk of an appeal of this nature. Certainly this plan throws a greater responsibility on the General Assembly, in regard to the expenditure on account of any war which their acts might bring on; but this would indirectly prove a great protection for Native interests : the Assembly will now know that the justness of their acts, if disturbances spring from them, will be publicly canvassed in the British Parliament: that if misfortunes and dangers have undeservedly been brought upon Her Majesty's European subjects by the misconduct of the Natives, then the General Assembly will receive from England that generous and liberal support which she has never failed to afford to British subjects under such circumstances: whilst on the ether hand if—which one may hope would be impossible—the Colonial Assembly had been attempting to oppress Her Majesty's subjects, its unrighte cms conduct would meet with that public reprobation which it would so justly deserve.
—Now, if these are His Excellency's views on the subject, how do you propose to enable him to cany on a system which he has already pronounced impossible? The advice which the Government feels bound to give to the House on this subject is, to let it be as it is: do not attempt to repudiate responsibility on the one hand, and do not, on the other, attempt to define to the Ministry the relations of the Governor towards his responsible advisers. Nothing will be gained by the first course, and by the latter confusion, and difficulty will to a certainty arise. The next subject on which I think desirable to treat, is that of the finance of the native policy. I have seen very absurd statements in some of the public prints of the colony, as to the reckless unauthorized expenditure which the Government is supposed to have already incurred on this object. It will, perhaps, surprise tho House when I tell it that, of the £IO,OOO voted last session for Native purposes, and which the House declined to appropriate specifically, the Ministry have yet a balance in hand; and though liabilities have been incurred beyond that amount, the whole expenditure these include at per annum, does not amount to more than £13,000. Now as to the finance for the future. His Excellency asked the sum of £50,000 a-year. This was apparently double the amount of the vote of the previous year; but it fact it was a saving to the colony, for His Excellency had very liberally undertaken to forego the contribution towards the cost of Imperial troops now paid by the colony to the extent of half the cost of the Native plan. Thus, as the whole cost would be £50,000, we should only have to vote £25,000, and the equal balance would be provided irom the source indicated. An additional aJvantage of this was,, that whereas if the amount was paid to the Imperial Government, it would be spent out of the colony; by this liberal arrangement it would be spent here. In fact the colony would really save by the transaction, viewed in the abstract. And if we considered how great the saving was as compared with a war policy, there was no doubt of the economy of His Excellency's proposal. On this head, continued the hon. member, I beg to quote again from His Excellency's despatches:—
It need hardly be added that the total annual expenditure upon all these objects, which expenditure will last but for a short period ot time, will not nearly equal the mere annual interest of the capital which would be sunk without producing any return whatever, in the first year of a general war; which would then probably last for several years, and at the close of which, when the out settlements had been swept away, and the settlers had been ruined, it would still remain necessary to take such measures for the permament peace of the country as it is now proposed to take at once.
—I now approach a more painful part of my subject. I mean that which relates to the condition of Taranaki. This House will give me credit when I express the deep sympathy which is felt by His Excellency and bis Ministers for all who have suffered loss or injury by the late unhappy war in that Province. Gladly would we reinstate it, not only in its pristine prosperity, but make it ten times what it was before. But in approaching practical action in the matter we must bear in mind that we have not only the interests of Taranaki to consider, but those of all the European colonists of: this Island as well; and equally with theirs the inteterests of all that large majority of the Natives who have not been engaged in hostilities against us. As regards this part of the subject, and the occupation of the district of Tataraimaka by the hostile Natives, these matters haye a militaiy aspect and involve considerations which must be left to His Excellency alone. Ido not pretend to know His Excellency's views on the subject, and if I did I should consider it most improper to divulge them in this place. But I do feel bound to disclaim the smallest particle of responsibility —either on the part of His Excellency or bis Ministers—in reference to the condition of Taranaki. As it is, so we found it. We are not responsible for its calamities; and as regards that peculiarly distressing point, the occupation of Tataraimaka, in particular, we cannot be blamed. I beg to refer to the published papers on this point. It will be seen that at the termination of hostilities the Ngatiruanui and Taranakis had entirely retired from that district, and gone some 40, some 80, miles south of Taranaka. At this juncture, General Cameron asked Governor Browne whether he should locate a force at Tataraimaka ; and had he done so, the Natives would never have been able to entrench there. Governor Browne, in a despatch of three lines, declined the offer; and the Natives gradually, but long before we took office, crept back and took possession. We may refer to various authorities —to Governor Browne, General Cameron, Mr. Whitaker—to show that any attempt to invade the countries of those tribes would be attended with no advantage, and would in all probability draw on a general war. Now, this the Ministry were not prepared to advise. Their advice to the Governor in reference to the Taranaki question they have given in plain, distinct, and, I think, manly terms: it is in print, and before the House. But it is for His Excellency to choose his own time, and act for himself in reference toamatter inviting almost exclusively military considerations. I shall not detain the House much longer; but I feel bound to express the opinion of the Government as to the progress which we have made in carrying out the policy we undertook. On the whole, regard being had to the means at our disposal and the time which has elapsed, it has been most satisfactory, and much more success has been attained than we could have expected. We found the whole Native population, even the most friendly tribes, filled with deep distrust and intense suspicion of the Government. The bulk of them trembled on a line between peace or war, and were fast gravitating to the latter. We have succeeded, we think, in restoring the confidence in us of large sections of the race; and, we believe, that a very general distrust of the King movement, accompanied by an inclination towards oar rale, is now in progress. I may specify an instance which has occurred within ten days, not 80 miles from where we stand, viz., the entire defection from the King movement of two hapus, numbering 200 souls, previously the most detci mined Kingifea, the followers and relations of Rangihaeta, the fighting general of the war of 1846, who had come over in a body to the Queen, and who were likely to be followed byjiearly all the West Coast south of Wanganui. In fact, there is a great shaking of the Native mind going on ; they begin to tire-of tha folly of the King movement, and are looking to us for law and order,- and though the work is one requiring time, labour, and patience, the Government is hopefully confident that the problem will be solved, that the Native race will be restored to its allegiance without bloodshed, and that the British name will be spared the dark stain of its extinction —a stain which would attach to it through all history, and no lapse of time would ever efface. The Hon. Mr. WOOD seconded the motion. Question put and carried, without discussion. Bill read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time on Friday next. Then, on the motion of Mr. FOX, the House «U jonrned at about 20 minutes to nine o'clock, "
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New Zealander, Volume XVIII, Issue 1709, 30 July 1862, Page 3
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26,289General Assembly of New Zealand. New Zealander, Volume XVIII, Issue 1709, 30 July 1862, Page 3
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