GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEW ZEALAND.

New Zealander, Volume 10, Issue 864, 26 July 1854, Page 2 (Supplement)

GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEW ZEALAND.

HOUSE OF EEITvESENTATIVES. Thursday. July 20. The SPEAKER took the Chair at 12 o’clock. Notices of Motion. Mr. MART gave notice of motion for an address to his Excellency the Onicer administering the Government that he would be pleased to direct that a copy or copies of all applications to the Government made by inhabitants of the District of Auckland in favour of the acceptance of Government .Scrip, issued pursuant to the New Zealand Company’s Land Claimants’Ordinance, Session 11, No. Id, in payment for land in the District of Auckland, be laid on the table of this house. Mr. TRAVERS gave notice of moving the re-committal of (lie Empowering Pill, in order to amend clause 1, by the insertion between the words “ Province” in the (ith line, and “ shall” in the 7th line of that clause, of the following words—“and which might he exercised by such Govcrnor-in-Chiof, Governor, or Lieutenant-Governor respectively, either alone or in Council, or with the advice of his Executive Council.” Mr. POR TER moved that the Committee on Bribery at Elections bring up their report on Tuesday next. Agreed to. on the motion of Mr. DART, the report of the New Zealand Company’s Debt was deferred till did August. Pensioner Deut. Mr, WORTLKY moved for a return showing whether any part, of the debt incurred on account of the Pensioner .Settlements has been paid by the Colony. If so, out of what fund tire payment has heeu made. And what the instructions from t lie Colonial Office arc at present with regard to the debt on the Revenue of the Colony. Also, for a return of the expenses incured on account of the Pensioner Settlements up to the present time, and that the same be laid on the table of the nousc. ,e> ’ suiv»J x-.aV. . T1 New Zealand Companys (Auckland) JJert. Mr. WAKEFIELD brought up (he Report of the Committee appointed to inquire into the justice ot Auckland bear ing a share of the New Zealand Company’s Debt, and moved that the report be read. The Report, as published in our last number, was then read and ordered to be printedMr, WAKEFIELD would move, on a future day, that t ho

report of the Committee in the Auckland share in the New Zealand Company’s Debt be adopted. Mr. SEWELL would object to the consideration of the report before it was printed. Customs Duties. Mr. MACKAY wished to call the attention of the house to a docoment received by him as Chairman of the Customs Committee, wdtich he thought should have been sent as a message from His Excellency to that house, being a resolution of the Provincial Council of the Province of Auckland on the Customs duties. Mr. FITZGERALD thought there had been some slight informality. The document should have been laid on the table. Steam Communication. Mr. MACKAY moved that the Report of the Committee on Steam be read. Mr. O’NEILL seconded the motion. Report read. Mr. MACKAY moved that the report be adopted. Waste Lands. The Speaker left the Chair, and the house wont into Com* mitteeon the Waste Lands Bill. Mr. FITZGERALD moved that the following clause be inserted as No. 3: —• << Provided also, that it shall not be lawful in any such terns of purchase or pasturage, or regulations, to include any stimp lation or agreement to the effect that any part of the proceedsof the Waste Lands included therein shall be appropriated to any specific purpose whatsoever.” Mr. SEWELL seconded the motion. Mr. CARGILL entirely dissented from the principle of the proposed clause ; if carried, he would vote against the Bill on the third reading. He thought he distinguished the hand of Sir George Grey, or more properly of Mr. Attorney-General Swainson, in this clause, as lie had seen it in the address. If the General Government were allowed to take possession of the land fund, every Province would reduce its land price to the minimum. Mr. TRAVERS thought the question was decided by the Constitution Act, which specified the mode in which the money should bo applied. The house had no power to appropriate until some specific purpose should have been suggested by the Government. Mr. JERNINGHAM WAKEFIELD—By this clause, or by the provisions of the Constitution Act of whose effect it is said to be declaratory, no Province is to be allowed to make any specific appropriation of the land revenue, —no Province is to be allowed to make a high price attractive by engaging to spend the produce of land sales in public works of a nature to add value to the land sold. The laud revenue of every Province, whether it sells its land at £2 or at ss. per acre, must go into the General Treasury, and be subject to appropriation for general purposes;—such as buying land from the Natives in the Northern Island,; or paying the principal or interest of the loan of half-a-million more or less to be raised for that purpose; or contributing to the expenses of the proposed establishment to that end which is to cost £OOOO or .£7OOO a year. How would this act ? Suppose one Province were to sell 50,000 acres at £2 and the other five 80,000 acres at ss. The high-priced colony would contribute £IOO,OOO, and the others £20,000 each, making £200,000 in all. Then suppose the general appropriations, whether for buying land from Natives, or possibly for defences as suggested by the hon. member (Mr. Fitzgerald) should amount to £150,000. Out of the surplus, the high-priced co. lony would get back £25,000 only, or Ids. per acre to carry out all the specific works; for which, in order to render itself attractive, it had provided £2 an acre. This would be the case of Canterbury, where I remember talking with numbers of the working class before my election, and where the large majority of them were then in favour of £2 per acre as the minimum price of land, provided that the produce was spent in a continuation of the excellent trignometrical survey before sale, whose value they thoroughly appreciated, in making roads into the available districts, and in immigration. (Hear.) Those were their reasons for desiring a high price, as well as the wish to prevent large speculative purchases. They also desired that it should be possible to acquire the land in small blocks. The Provincial Council of Canterbury have recently approved of a set of terms of purchase and pasturage laid before them by His Honour the Superintendent (Mr. Fitzgerald) fixing the price at £2 and the minimum size of blocks at 20 acres. So that I presume that price to bo still in favour at Canterbury with the majority of the inhabitants. But. if they are to have no security that the land revenue is not to be expended elsewhere, 1 feel sure that they will desire to see the price reduced to the lowest minimum, and will advocate heavy local taxation of land to make up the balance, in order that the land, a tangible commodity, may still contribute to the public works which are to give it real value. (Hear.) We are told that the Constitution Act renders it necessary to insert this clause, as declaratory of the prohibitions which the Act makes absolute. But I venture to suggest that as this Dill already proposes to delegate to the Provinces some powers reserved to the Governor or the General Assembly, there may be but little difficulty in handing over the rest also, by inserting clauses to that effect instead of the one now proposed. That would be fairly carrying out the principle of this Bill, which, although in my own opinion an evasion of the Act, has been adopted by the house, and is therefore no longer open to dispute. In order to carry out the principle of handing over to the Provinces all power over the disposal of the waste lands, it appears most essential to give them the sub- . stance as well as the shadow, —the power not only to make .vhat laws they like for the disposal of land, but also to spend as they like the revenue arising from it. (Heat, hear.) Unless, instead of the clause now proposed, clauses of a totally opposite character can be introduced, this Bill will give to the Provinces only the butter without the solid pudding. It appears essential that complete power over the land funds should be transferred along with complete power over land legislation. (Hear, hear.) It is only on that condition that the measure can be considered a boon. Otherwise, it is only the mockery of a boon. 1 must therefore oppose the introduction of a clause which appears to perpetuate so serious a restriction on the powers which it was supposed that the Bill conferred on the Provinces, (Hear, hear.) Mr. FI TZGERALD said, if hon. members would only confine themselves to the subject before the house it would much facilitate business. The clause only enunciated what was contained in the Constitution Act. The Provinces could not appropriate money until after an appropriation by the General Assembly. They could not divest the General Assembly of that right, or bind any future General Assembly. The Governor could pay away money for'expences connected with the management of the waste lands without coming to that house at all. He hoped the clause would be placed in the Bill. Mr. O'NEILL thought the clause was not framed by the same hand as that which framed the Bill. He thought every Province should make what contract it pleased with their customers. Mr. MACANDREW hoped the clause would be withdrawn. Mr. HART entirely dissented from the doctrine that the lands were the property of the Provinces. Mr. WAKEFIELD thought that a clause should be introduced,'giving power to the Provinces to take more than the minimum price, and appropriate the extra money to specific purposes. He would endeavour to bring forward a clausby which such power should be given to the Provincial Coun cils. Mr. SEWELL said, this was new matter; he would not be a party to any terms of purchase which agreed to devote part of the proceeds to any specific purpose ; he would not contravene tiie Constitution Act. “All these special schemes were grave political mistakes.” as had been often staled by the hon. member for the Hutt; he said that charters were only good so far as that certain settlements would not have been founded without them. He thought it desirable to insert the clause as it stood, and not hold out a false light to intending settlers. Mr. WAKEFIELD called attention to South Australia, where 200,000 to 270,000 people were established on a special contract in a few years. His hon. friend laughed at a charter as if he had been brought up under an Italian or Russian Despotism. He feared that his hon. friend was again verging towards redtapeism, though since he had been in the Colony, and had felt the shoe pinch, he had been an out and out libe.al. He (Mr. W) regretted to hear kina, now that he was in power, laugh at a

charter upon which one of the most remarkable settlements had been founded. Then there was the Canterbury Charter: when his hon. friend was fighting for that chartei, no man fought more strenuously for “Chartered Rights.” These Charters have been the only law for waste lands in existence within the colony' all the rest was caprice. Because the colonists and the Colonial Office had been at variance for fifteen years, were we to treat these laws as useless? , Mr, SEWELL felt some surprise at the attack which had been made on him ; it was the impolicy of the contract, and not tbe contract itself, that he objected to. Mr. CUTTEN asked if it were not possible to give the proceeds to the Provinces ; if not, the land would be at once reduced to the minimum price. He hoped the expense of collection would be paid with the advice of the Executive Council, land ought not to have been taxed, unless that which was spent for its special benefit. This clause, he thought, altered the principle of the Dill; at all events, it gave him a new view of the Bill. (Hear, hear.) Dr. MONRO concurred in what had been said of the impolicy of these contracts. It was a pity that the hon. member had alluded to the Nelson contract. The result had been that not only had the state been compelled to interfere by giving away a large quantity of the land of the settlement, but the Home Government had had to pay a large sum of money to meet the deficiency of the New Zealand Company, lie entirely objected to religious class settlements. To apply the sentiment of religion to the promotion of colonisation was to prostitute religion. (No, no.) They would all be extinguished sooner or later. He would have great pleasure in voting for this particular clause. Mr. FORSAITH must vote against the clause. He had voted against the’second reading, because he thought the Bill an evasion of the Constitution Act, but would wish the power to be given to the Provinces. Mr SEWELL admired the tenderness which several hon. members had displayed about violating the Act; yet they would now cut out a clause so as to give room for evasion to that Act. Mr. E. J. WAKEFIELD rose, but having been interrupted by Mr. Revans, retired to his seat, Mr. TRAVERS had once been of a different opinion, but after the discussion which had arisen, was convinced that the clause was necessary ; it was only a political warning to trespassers. Mr. LEE, when he read the clause two or three hours ago, thought very little of it, but the Province of Auckland might shut the New Zealand Company out. (Laughter.) He really felt inclined to do so. Mr. CARGILL said, the hon. member had fallen into a little mistake concerning Otago. The charter was only a draft charter. If they only had The legislation without the mone)', it was worthless. Mr. CARLETON said the question was simply one of prohibition or no prohibition by the Act. The hon. member for the Northern Division had said we had already encroached upon the Act, and therefore we need not hesitate to encroach a little more. (No, no, and hear, hear.) Like the hon. member, he had voted against the second reading, believing the Bill to have been an evasion of of the Constitution Act; but would vote in favour of the clause, because it prevented further encroachment. Mr. WAKEFIELD here handed to the hon. member anew clause he proposed to introduce, which the hon. member read aloud, the purport of which was, that the Provinces might charge more than the minimum price for thair lands, devoting the extra payment to special local works, declaring the additional price to be a contribution for such purposes, and not be a part of the price of the land. Mr. FITZGERALD declared it to be his firm conviction that if such a clause were made part of the Bill, it would infallibly cause the Bill to be disallowed. He was indeed surprised that such a proposition should have emanated from the hon. member for the Hutt, who objected so strongly on previous occasions to the Bill, on the score of its being an evasion ; yet now proposed a most manifest and direct evasion of the New Zealand Company’s Debt. He felt sure that if the Act went home with such a clause, the Company had still sufficient influence to get the Act disallowed. He would therefore strenuously oppose the introduction of any such clause. He had used the word “ evasion’’ in no offensive sense, but in all courtesy. The house divided on the clause : Ayes, 18. Noes, 10. Mr. TRAVERS moved that the Chairman do report progress, and ask leave to sit again at ti o’clock. House adjourned. The house met at six o’clock, and resumed in Committee on Waste Lands Bill. Mr. FITZGERALD’S new clauses, 4, 5, and fi, were adopted with slight amendments. Clause 7 was read “ Notwithstanding anything herein contained, Officers of Her Majesty’s military and naval services and of the military services of the honourable East India Company, proposing to settle within any Province of the said Colony, shall be entitled to the same privileges in respect to the acquisition of land, as those to which they would be entitled in any other of Her Majesty’s Colonies, under the regulations in that behalf issued under the authority of the Commander-in Chief, and dated 27th July, 1853.” Mr. E. G. WAKEFIELD thought the Committee should know' the nature of regulations referred to before they were asked to pass this clause. Mr. GLEDHILL would like to know if the regulations evabled the officers to select wherever it best pleased them. Mr. FITZGERALD said—Oh no, and proceeded to read the regulations. He thought it would be an ungenerous thing for the Legislature of New Zealand, to which the Crown had handed over the waste lands, to refuse officers who had served Her Majesty, privileges which in other Colonics they might enjoy. Mr. FORSAITH would have no objection to allowing retiring officers the same privileges with respect to allowance of land in this Colony which they might enjoy in other Colonies ; but he thought a residence of five years in the Colony ought to he necessary to entitle them to a Crown grant. Mr. LEE would he glad to know what was to become of the remission money. He thought the men had as good right to the privilage as the officers. Major GREENWOOD thought it very desirable that such a class of settlers should be encouraged to come to New Zealand If a militia were to he raised, they would he eligible to take command of companies - He thought it would also be a great beneit to the Colony, if arrangements could be made to offer limited free grants of land to non-commissioned officers and private soldiers who might be discharged here, to encourage them to settle here. All his own ploughs were at the present time driven by this class of men, who had been of great service to the agricultural interests of this district. In a proportionate degree, the labour market would he by this means supplied less expensively than by paying the cost of passage for the same number of immigrants. Mr. O’NEILL believed that no worse class of settlers could he introduced than the gentlemen for whose advantage the clause was framed. He thought it would be found that they would prefer the handling of a billiard cue to the hardships of a settler’s life. If free grants were to be given at all to retiring officers, let it be confined to those who had seen hard service in the Colony. Mr. WAKEFIELD thought that the question should not be viewed merely as in the way of compliment to the Crown, but rather the colonial view of the matter should be taken. Gentlemen of this class would be found in many wvys to be exceedingly valuable settlers, but care should be taken to secure that object. Dr. MONRO and Mr, SEWELL spoke in favour of the clause. Mr. CUTTEN looked upon it as a species of class legislation. Mr. CARGILL thought that the adoption of the regulations should not be forced on the Provinces without their concurrence. He would therefor© move that the following words be added to the clause;—“ Subject to any regulation in that behalf to be from time to time made and issued by the Governor, with the advice of the Executive Council, and which shall be ap proved of by the Superintendent, and agreed to by the Provincial Council of any Province to which such regulation may apply,”

After discussion, the Committee divided 10. Noes, 13. * s * s - Ayes. Noes. Messrs. King Messrs. ' Crompton Monro E. G, Wakefield J. Wakefield WortW Cutten R erst3 O'Neill Greentooj Macandrew Mackay Forsaith • Gray Lee Ludlam Cargill, teller. Rhodes Porter Gledhil! w «id, teSer Negatived. Mr, FORSAITH then moved ? proviso as folio*, vided that an actual residence of five years must he r~. fore any title to the last mentioned privileges riudw except in cases in which death may have piration of the period.” The Committee divided as follows Ayes. Ij. Ayes. Naex, Messrss Ludlam Messrs, M byKing Cray Crompton Greenwood J. Wakefield Tnv?rs Cargill SetteH Macandrew Reran Cutten Fltxgeraid G led hi II Wonky O'Neill Wdd, igj(* Lee Rhodes E. G. Wakefield Forsaith, teller. Carried. Mr. SEWELL then proposed that one acre one pound remission money, which was agreed to. On the question being put that the clause as anjaig ; part of the Bill, the Committee divided as follows:-!*. Noes, 7. Ayes. Noes. Messrs. Ludlam Messrs. O’Neill Wortley Macandrew Sewell Gray Monro Lee Fitzgerald King Travers Cutten Crompton Cargill, teßa. J. Wakefield E. G. Wakefield Picard Rhodes Forsaith Mackay Gledhill Weld, teller. Carried. The subsequent clauses were then considered, aniya.4 slight amendments. The house then divided until F; iday. Friday, July 21. The House met at 12 o'clock. Petition. Mr. MACKAY presented a petition from 57 merdnothers of Auckland, praying that the tariff may be imsm during the present stssion. Petition received. Mr. PICARD presented a petition from the Prc-riadiib cilat Nelson, praying that certain grants to the Bishop cfl Zealand maybe set aside. Petition received. Notices of Motion. Mr- CARLETON gave notice that he would pnTss July 25, ask the Solicitor-General whether it be the its of the Government to amend the (Supreme Court Otfea so far as conferring upon the Supreme Court in New U the common law jurisdiction of the High Court 0: Chaser Mr. PICARD gave notice that on Wednesday rest, Jv he would ask the hnn. member for Lyttelton whetherits intention of the Government to take any and what sap reference to the grants of certain lands i n the district of M.c in the Province of Nelson, by his Excellency Sir Gc-ors to the Bishop of New Zealand for an industrial school. Mr. MACANDREW gavenotice that on the third the Public Lands Bill he would move the insertion of >5 to save tho rights of the Otago land purchasers, as gars to them by Her Majesty’s Government under the mKx virtue of which they became purchasers of land in thate ment. Mr. PICARD gave notice that on Tuesday next, tfehe would move the standing order. No. 90, besusies-'. order to allow of the introduction of a petition from cent habitants of the district of Motueka in the Province of Xs Mr. MACKAY gave notice that on Tuesday, 27th is. would move a resolution to the following effect—Tis the opinion of this house that it is the duty of the Gores f to bring in a bill this session, to simplify the duties of | levied in this Colony, in accordance with the wishes of tfces I chants of Auckland, who have humbly petitioned the Hat i Representatives to that effect. Messages. A message from his Excellency the Officer administer 5 Government was announced, whereupon Major Cocka Excellency’s Private Secretary, was introduced, who pa; I message, No. 17, transmitting copies of correspondence IP I Sir George Grey and the Colonial Office, on the suite--I letter from the Bishop of New Zealand. Ordered to he I 3* -- . the table. j Mr. CARLETON obtained leave to postpone the sea»i® ing of the Law Practitioner’s Bill until Tuesday, d* - | inst. Mr, KELHAM obtained leave to postpone bringing 3 1 report of Bank of Issue Committee until Friday, 28th toMr. MACKAY obtained leave to postpone bringing l3 ? 1 of Committee on duties of customs, until Thuwhp inst. Empowering Bill. On the motion of Mr. FITZGERALD, the house»©Committee on this Bill. Mr. TRAVERS, pursuant to notice, moved the of clause I, by the insertion between the words “ Prom--I the 6th line and “ shall ” in the 7th line of that clause. •» - I following words ;—“And which might be exercised Governor respectively, either alone or in Council, or 1 advice of his Executive Council.’’ Agreed to. On the motion of Mr. FITZGER ALD, the Speaker chair, and the Chairman reported progress. On the motion of Mr. FITZGERALD, the Bill * 35 to be printed with amendments, and read a third time nesday next, 26th inst. Revenues Bill. The house went into Committee of the whole on the Bill. * Clause 1 read and agreed to. The other clauses were amended, and agreed to. Empowering Bill. This Bill was re-committed, and a number of amendments introduced. The house adjourned until Tuesday.