"THE GREAT ILLUSION"

North Otago Times, Volume CIV, Issue 13662, 2 September 1916, Page 2

"THE GREAT ILLUSION"

REPORTEDIMPRISONMENT (OF

ITS AUTHOR.

INTERESTING INTERVIEW WITH NORMAN ANtIELL. ■

■ A Berlin wireless, message to Nov York on Monday'of last week reported that Britain, had. -sentenced- Norman Angell lo eighteen, months', imprisonment because he declined 10-lake part : n. the war. The-report ..was not. confirmed from other sources. Norman Angell has achieved'-world-wide'fame as a pacifist, his writings on , the subject being known everywhere. His great-. ,'st"work—first published' in ID 10, biit running later into dozens of editions—', was entitled "The Great Illusion,"in this work, 'which lias been translated into about twenty languages, ' Norman Angell strove to prove that the economic independence of the nations would render a great' warin Hie future, impossible. The wealth of historical and economic learning which he'brought to, .bear upon lhis;liis magnum opus,-earned him thousands:Of true believers.' who steadfastly adhered to his theories until that red' day when the "road hog of Europe" shattered them utterly at': /Olio blow. Shite' the', outbreak of the' war little lias.b'een heard' of-Nornianl Angell. Besides '"'The.'Great Illusipn"' v | he IW3 written a.large number of works; chiefly on historical- 1 subjects.-Notwith-standing-his pacifist views, Norman An ; gell has always-been regarded, from the internal evidence of Ids works, as' a keen patriot, and ijt is niore than likely th'at this German story of his imprisonment is quite imaginative.Ralph .'Norman--Angell:Lane is the name that was. given to him by his'godparents in baptism, But Norman 'Angell is the part-of him by which,he has. made himself known- to the public, No-' body knows Batpli: Lane ;save,the newspaper world of Paris and his colleagues in Carmelite House,'where he long'ago - made a reputation', for himself as one of the ablest newspaper.managers who. ever took office-iu Lord Nortnclifte 's .service. It-is somewhat.odd that-Nor-man Angell should come out of • the Daily Mail office,-but good things do sometimes come'out of Nazareth, as a famous leading case is on record to prove. '.

In April, 1912, Norman Angell was interviewed by Mr W. T. Stead, who,

! by flic way, had no misgivings as to f the imperativeness of Urout Britain's J. naval supremacy. Jmlccil it was the | late Mr Stead who coined the phrase | "two keels to one." Describing'the | interview, Ifr Stead said: "The name I and lame of Norman Angcll. arc now world-wide Whtm 1 was at Constan- | tinoplc the Russian Ambassador told' ) mo that he had ,just Jiuislied Norman j .'Angcll's book, and had passed, it on I to the German Ambassador, the re- ! doubtable Baron Marschall von Biolier- ) slcin, wJio was then eagerly studying [ its contents. • Of late, Norman Angcll I has been addressing audiences of all I sorts in Great Britain, and finding [ everywhere audiences, eager, receptive, I and sympathetic, One day he lectured [ at the Notional"Liberal Club; another day ho discoursed at Cambridge University, One Sunday he spoke at a Nonconformist church; the next he appeared at South-Place Institute,' But he was most at home when addressing the Institute of Bankers. For bankers need no convincing' as to the extent to which civilisation''is built .on credit, and that the very existence of modern society facilitates international peace, "In appearance Norman Angcll resembles the Apostle Paul, whose' personal presence is said to have been in marked 'contrast to the weighty and powerful productions of his pen. He is short of stature, delicate in constitution, physically far from robust (though he lias lived a rough life on the frontier, and travelled in wild countries) without an ounce of animal magnetism to spare for any public meeting, Yet he holds his audiences. He is going to Germany to preach his gospel there, and everyone must wish him Godspeed, For it is a gospel indeed of go'od tidings of great joy, It is an old gospel in a sense. For it is but a reiteration of the old saying that we are 'all members one of another.' But whereas the old saying is often limited to the city or the commonwealth, Norman Angell demonstrates that it is equally true when applied to the whole civilised world," Mr Stead first met Norman Angell in Pari3, but he interviewed hiui in London at the Salisbury Hotel. He was, as usual, quiet in manner, lucid in speech, and perfectly certain of his position. "People constantly misrepresent me," Norman Angell said cheerfully. "They assert that J have declared war to be henceforth impossible, In pre-, sence of the records of contemporary history it is inconceivable that )' could make such an assertion. What I have asserted, and not only asserled but demonstrated, is that war is a game which ' i« no longer worth the candle, which in the nature of things must miss its aim, futile because when you have achieved your victory I he-present organisation of the world will prevent your turning it lo account. In former times you could make war pay; The Norsemen wlio harried our coasts found it a profitable'operation. That day is past. No one can make war pay nowadays. It is an illusion that conquest means pi'o(it ]; or that you can increase your wealth by annexing territory. jJWhen that fact is .recognised war will

die out, as religious persecution has died out, . . ■ ■ .'•:'

, .''We u'llijigrcc,-'',Mr Stead replied, "but I. think.yoiiv-slightly overstate it in .another, Tor instance, you contend 'that; if Gcniiaiiy conquered Britain it would profit her 'nothing. 1 agree that the cost of conquest would make the operation financially unprofitable. But you argue as "if Germany being,-let us isay, suddenly, in-a'position to dictate terms of peace to-England, could not profit by such a position of vantage.''

"Do you, thiiik.shc could 1 !" "Certainly ;she/coukl," Mr Stead claimed, "for'instance, she need impose' no tribute,' levy" no indemnity,' annex no territory., All'that she need do Would'be to compel Britain to place the' administration' and control of' the British Navy' exclusively in German hands.' They need not- iiftcrfcre with our self-govornnieut. They would man, control,- and coiumaiid; the navy, and we would'pay just, the- same Naval Estimates as', before.) Nity,'- they might even promise'.to..save .us'twenty millions a year in the cost -of- the Navy, since the' old Anglo-Gerniairrivalry would' be extinct, They-'could: disband their own' navy, and commandj.tlic. seas with onehalf'of flic British'.fleet. Each nation .-would be saved twenty millions a .year; 'and Germany:would- 1 be master alike of, sea and of.' land, ".;■< ■

. "I would like:,to,-.p'ut on my considering cap,",said''.Nornian Angell, "be.'fore fully answering, that objection,' But practically it .arn'oitu'ts-to nothing, lou< ■ cannot;' postulate <tihe'.costless conquest, of-Britain, and, the-attempt at conquest would cost Germany more-than, hi your liyothesis,' she, would save by au-. nexing our fleeti'-Besides, the gain of a reduction .'of- estimates might be 'brought about' more- simply 'by a friendly, agreement! without a -war."

• •-.' 'Agreedl -' ; Mr V; Steadfanswered, "I was only pointing out what seemed to mo an unnecessary overstatement. Now I come to your- understatement. You ilwell rightly- and -■ wuscly uipon the extent to which the whole fabric of mod-' era.society is-builjnip'ion credit, and you point out how disastrous war would effect/industrial : .-prosperity. ' But you might: strengthen (your argument by pointing out : an' even; more, conclusive argument, against. w-ar-. in the modern state." ~ . ."" ; '"'.

'"Arid'whaJ; may)hat'be?f' "The absolute 'certainty that no war between the* two 'Triples could ever be fought-to a finish ty naval or.military; weapons. The-o'ne ; dominating, factor of the fate of nations is not the Sword; it is the Stomach. -'How long do, you think Germany'could have Icept on'the

war if. it had broken out last midsummer!" . ■ "One of the leading bankers was asked'that question the other evening," said Nornuui'Angcll, <f Hc replied 'Not longer thaira month.' He was spcalringsolely.as a financier." - "The financial crash.will bo bad, but 'it is the secondary effects.'of the collapse of credit-which'will'be decisive, Germany,.like Britain, lives from hand .to mouth, tShe has ndw twenty millions ■more people to feed- than she had in .1871, These people are fed from abroad 1 . Tiiey live from -hand :to mouth. Their daily bread depends upon the uninterrupted working of the vast complex machinery of- mortem commerce.' In. olden times every community was a self-contained, self-sustained, selffeeding 'imit. That day k gone for ever. We live from hand to mouth to such an extent that a two-days' railway strike brought our industrial North Country towns I 'within sight of famine," "There are countries which feed ; themselves."

"Yes, In Russia there is food enough for her millions, Turkey also, and sparsely-peopled . countries nee { d not starve, but if'.a densely-populated industrial'community goes to war it cuts its own throat." '■' ' ' .

"Then, if war broke out between the Triples, what do you think would happen?"

"A cataclysm, in which society would temporarily disappear—a catastrophe, in which all thought of carrying 'on war against the foreigner would be effaced by the far more pressing necessity of finding rations for starving millions. The twenty additional millions of/Germans, instead 1 of being an added strength, are so many useless mouths that would demand food, and no food would ! be forthcoming, The same thing would' happen to us if we lost command of the sea."

"I think there is' a good deal in what you say," said Mr Norman Angell, "but even my moderate understatement, as' you call it, has penetrated far and.wide, My little book has been translated . into many languages, and I hoar eclro'es of its doctrine in quarters where the'book itself is unknown,"

"Lord Eshcr told me the other day," Mr Stead replied, "that he was one of the first to recognise the immense cogency of your -'argument. He bought copies of your book and sent them to half the sovereigns and statesmen of Europe!"

"I have never seen Lord Esher," said Norman Angell, "though I owe liim very much. He-wrote suggesting that 1 should expand my. argument, as lie believed that it would have more influence than' any book since Seeley published liis 'Expansion of England."" ' ■ .

"Thinking over .your thesis," Mr Stead said, "suggests to die that modern civilised society is like a city .built upon a frozen'lake, If irtliaw comes the whole city will descend into the depths. Our'credit system, our hand-to-mouth system,'arc the foundations of our industrial civilisation. They pro-suppose as a condition 'precedent

a state of uninterrupted peace. When w;fo\ comes the Whole fabric will collapse.'' • . .... ',-'-'Yes,",.said Norman Angell, "and 'the notion of keeping the thing going by: armaments is as absurd as-if "the builders of your city' on ice were to try to keep off a thaw by surrounding' it with walls,.- which not only arc powerless to prevent a thaw, but increase the pressure on the ice when the frost gives." . ,