New Zealand parliament.
HOUSE OF EEPEESENTATIVES. Thursday, September 7. DIVISION OF THE COLONY. Mr. Russell rose and moved the following resolutions :—: — 1. " That it has now become desirable and expedient that an equitable adjustment of the liabilities of the colony should be made among the several provinces thereof. 2. " That, after sueli final settlement of the public debt has been made, and in order to secure a better administration of the Government, this House is of opinion that New Zealand should be divided at Cook Strait into two different colonies. 3. " That (as a temporary measure, and until effect is given to the foregoing resolutions by legal enactments), an humble address from this House should be presented to his Excellency the Governor, praying his Excellency to exercise the power conferred on him by his commission from Her Majesty, of appointing a Deputy-Governor with necessary officers in the province of Auckland, to administer the Government within its limits. 4. " That a bill be introduced to give effect (so far as it is competent for the General Assembly to do so) to these resolutions. He said they who had seen the early days of the colony — the first dawn of its prosperity — must feel regret at the cause which led to the introduction of these resolutions. Separation was a great evil, and good would not flow from it either to the North or to the South ; yet it was a lesser evil than that which would flow if they remained united. They had heard many accounts as to the present position of native affairs; and the statements of the Minister for Defence and the Native Minister by no means agreed. The former gentleman had said that north of Auckland all was peace ; that Taranaki was reinstated ; that the capture of the Wereroa pah had finished the campaign ; and that, except on the East Coast, peace was everywhere. But were these facts ? He said, No. He then referred to the confiscation scheme of Ministers on assuming office, and said they had actually let the Ngatimaniapoto tribe off free, and that Buch partial confiscation had but a bad effect, because the natives failed to see its justice. And even in regard to the Waikato, Ministers had not occupied it with settlers. True, they had laid off some sections on its edge, but they had not penetrated inside its boundary. Then with regard to the presence of the Volunteers in the colony, Auckland had not complained of want of troops or want of men ; it had complained of the state of inactivity in ■which the troops were allowed to remain ; it had complained that, by their inactivity they had become demoralized. Was it true, he would ask, that the Government did not intend to settle the north of Waikato ? Because he had seen letters which stated it as a fact. Up to the month of November last, 600 natives had laid down their arms, and land was to have been given to them ; hut to the present time not one of the natives had been shown his land. It might be depended upon as a fact that the natives but awaited opportunity to again possess themselves of the conquered land. Was this like peace ? and did we possess in Wanganui any more land than that on which the blockhouses were built ? On the east coast, war had been commenced which would hut much longer than was anticipated. The whole country about Napier was disaffected, and thousands were ready to take up arms against us, and yet the removal of the troops was urged. If they were removed he predicted most disastrous consequences to the colony, because they proposed replacing 10,000 soldiers by 1,500 volunteers who could not be maintained for the amount estimated by Ministers. In one place Ministers had said they depended on the willingness of settlers to assist them, while in another they said, unless they received that assistance they must fail. The dillydallying of Ministers, he thought only tended to make the state of the whole North Island approach that of Taranaki. The self-relying spirit was one of the cardinal points of the ministerial policy, and the removal of the seat of Government another. Now Ministers had been in office nine months, and where was the self-relying spirit ? It had failed at Wanganui, and must fail wherever tried. He would remind the House that the province which he represented contained two-thirds of the European population, three-fourths of the natives, and one-half the area of the North Island ; and the members representing that district held that the Government policy would not succeed. If Ministers depended on Volunteers, why bring in their Militia Act — a Militia Act that depended on the Mutiny Act. In no British colony had the first-class Militia ever been asked to march fifty miles from home, and he hoped the House would not now consent to it. Then again, if they had a Militia, how would they be paid? And now he would refer to the great Outlying District Police Bill, the first effect of which would be to destroy any little influence the Native Minister may have held among the Maoris. The bill would create more suspicion. The honourable member then referred to the financial policy of 1863, and said that when leaving office they had cut down the expenditure from £75,000 to £45,000 per month, yet the present Government very speedily increased it to £75,000 a month again, but not till after the House had adjourned. Let the House look at the financial statement recently made, and which gave things such an appearance of approaching prosperity ; but it was delusive, for they had not been told that then* securities were unsaleable, and that eight per cent, debentures were being sold in the colony at five per cent, discount. Our resources were crippled said the finance Minister, and more taxes must be had, but could the country bear it ? He predicted that within six months the self-rely-ing policy of Government would have fallen through. What Auckland now wanted was to have the management of itself. The North had been ready to make every sacrifice, had spilt its blood, and felt itself liable for its share of the colonial burdens. He was aware that his resolutions shadowed forth a time of great difficulty, but Auckland was fully prepared to meet it. It might be said he was flinging on the floor what could not be carried, but he did so because he wished to show that Auckland had determined eventually to carry it. They nailed their colours to the mast, and would abide by them. Mr. Burns seconded the motion. The Phemieb said that he rose to move the following amendment to the resolution which stood in his name : — " That, in the opinion of this House, New Zealand ought not to be divided into two separate colonies. He had listened with great attention to the speech of the honourable gentleman who had just sat down. It was a curious instance of an honourable gentleman having thrown a motion on the floor of the House, and then, with that legal power which he gave him the credit of possessing, he goes from one subject to another, all irrelevant to the question, and draining the sweets of eloquence from every flower, but had put entirely in the background the propositions to which he was supposed to be speaking. The House had already heard answers to all the arguments which had been brought forward by the honourable mover. He would not, however, shirk tiwmain quertion, although he matt exprostfiome
little surprise at the line of evasiou and ingenuity which had been adopted by his honourable friend in varying so from the point at issue. He must congratulate him with having — not to use an unparliamentary term — had the audacity to charge the present Ministry with having gone to a reckless expense, when he himself was the member of the very Ministry who had plunged the colony in an enormous debt, and he now came to blame them because they had liquidated the debt and met the bill incurred by that Ministry. The very honourable gentleman who had just sat down, had a short time before leaving office, by a stroke of his pen, made the colony liable for the payment of £25,000 in the matter of the Waikato settlers, with regard to the payment of £10 per man. This was not the least he had done. And if the honourable member would ask fov a < .Financial Committee to investigate the matter and go into figures, the present Government would be prepared to prove everything they said, and disprove everything the honourable member had said. That honourable gentleman had risen in his place to taunt them with extravagance. He had not in any way alluded to the conduct of the former Ministry, except as little as possible through kindness for them ; but he would now challenge the honourable gentleman to ask for a Financial Committee to go into the figures. Would the honourable gentleman accept the challenge ? [continued applause]. It was rather curious to him, the honourable mover ; and the members on the other side of the House did not go into facts and figures, but contented themselves by making assertions. When they had been told by that Ministry that their policy had unfortunately broken down by adventitious circumstances, why had they clung afterwards so tenaciously to office ? Why had they not resigned instead of writing the wishy-washy memoranda which they had indulged in ? Why had they not come to the House, stated the true facts of the case, and thrown themselves upon the country ? Instead of doing that, they had held on in office until the country was in a mess as terrible as that when men in whom the colony had the utmost faith hardly dared to take the helm. The honourable gentleman had complained about the commencement of the Taranaki and Wanganui campaign, but what would he have said had the Government not commenced and carried it out ? He would have said that the present Government had tarnished the honour of the country, and had left the lives and fortunes of her Majesty's subjects in the country in jeopardy. The honourable member had said that the policy adopted by the Government in the Waikato had resulted badly. What had been the bad result? The result had been peace. The war there had been severely punished. The natives had suffered great losses, and he thought that the firm peace established there was a matter of congratulation. He then referred to the utter want of selfreliance on the part of Auckland, and reminded one honourable gentleman (Mr. Graham), that at a festive board he had said, "Auckland was never so prosperous, for she had Waikato secured to her ;" but he failed to say it was the Weld Government who Becured it. He objected also to the statement of Mr. Russell that the Government policy had broken down. It might also suit the honourable gentleman to expatiate on the absurdity of saying that 1,500 men would do what the General with 7,000 men could not do. Bufc he would remind the House that the colonial forces had already done something in taking the native stronghold of Wereroa pah [laughter]. He heard some laughing at this and he knew that the answer that he would receive to this would be that there was only one old woman in the pah [hear, hear]. Might he mention an instance which occurred in the Scinde campaign when Sir Charles Napier received the greatest credit for taking the stronghold at Amersd Scinde, which was supposed to be impregnable, and yet, when this fortress was taken, there was not even an old woman found in it. He did not wish to be understood as saying anything disrespectful to the army, but he had to defend himself and the honour of the colony, and, however distinguished a man may be, as long as he (Mr. Weld) held his position, he should not insult the colony without his raising his voice. Some honourable members may say " You have insulted General Cameron ; it is a dreadful thing ;" but he said if the General will confine himself to military matters, and not meddle with the policy of the colony, nor heap insults on it, and not only on the present Ministry, but on the people of the Northern province among others, he would not say anything insulting of him, but when General Cameron acted in that manner, he would defend the honour of the colony, and he would not be deterred by persons getting up and saying " You have insulted General Cameron." The colony ought at least to have such self-respect as to be able, in calm language, to rebut what it knows to be false. As to the question of the retaining of the troops, the country was not in a state of rebellion, and therefore he could not order away these troops, but if her Majesty chose to keep these troops in Wellington, instead of at Woolwich, she had a perfect right to do so. He had said that the troops were not wanted here, and that they did not intend to pay for them. He bad afterwards said that, pending the time they were kept here, they would be employed. He would never do that again, for he had sinco found that employing British troops had not answered near so well as the employment of colonial forces. It might be said that the plan of the force proposed to be raised for the colony was ridiculous, but he would ask, were the works that had been done by these colonial troops ridiculous ? Was the taking of the Wereroa pah ridiculous ? Was the defence of Pipiriki, by twenty men against 160 natives, such as to deserve the ridicule and censure of honourable members ? H6 would ask whether the conduct of Captain Frazer and Lieutenant Biggs, who, with sixteen men, stormed a pah containing 200 Hauhaus and bayonetted twenty-five of them, was ridiculous ? Was it the conduct of such men as these that made their proposed theory of self-reliance so unfeasible as to cover them with undying laughter ? He was astonished that any man should come down to that House and sneer at such a theory, and above all was he astonished when the man who did so was no other than he who was formerly Defence Minister. He was astonished to see this Defence Minister attempt to throw derision on the men who had saved the colony. Yes, they had Bayed the colony by their valour, for the House could not forget that, two or three months ago, 300 Maoris held in defiance a large tract of country, and when Englishmen were looked upon by them as men that could not fight. These Englishmen were looked upon in this way, although, they belonged to a race which were not afraid to stand against a foe then they were one to twenty until they c-nne to New Zealand. He (Mr. Weld) would be the last man to say that Englishmen had degenerated from the days of India and the Crimea. They could again stand twenty to one aB they had done at Meanee, as they had done, and would do again. When things had come to their worst here, they had resolved to act on the same self-reliant principle, and the result was that in one short month the whole aspect of things was changed. The settlers and the colonists were again coming to think that they could stand against the natives. He believed that the expedition which had lately gone to the East Coast would add another page to the glory of New Zealand history. He would have been better pleased if the honourable member had explained what was meant by some parts of his motion which were certainly somewhat ambiguous. What was meant by an equitable adjustment? He would feel very like going into a trap if he voted for this. It was like buying a horse without knowing anything about it. He would like to know were the provinces to be done away with ? And if the colony was to be divided into two, where were the seats of Government to be ? Were they to be in Canterbury or Otago for one island, and for the Northern Island, as the honourable mover had said that he did not care about the seat of Government, perhaps he would like to have it at Wellington [laughter]. The honourable member had mentioned nothing definite. Now, his amendment was perfectly straightforward. There was no mistake in its meaning, although of course, he did not mean to say that this colony should never be separated. What his amendment said was that the colony Bhould not be broke up just then. They should not plunge blindly into the vortex that they knew not of. It was an unprecedented thing in parliamentary practice for a person to come down with • motion hating for its averred object tho orer*
' throwing of the Government, unless the person thus i desirous of destroying it were willing to take its ; place. The honourable gentleman had stated that lie did not wish to take office. Now, if the honouri able gentleman had come down with a well-digosted • scheme of policy, and had said that if the present ■ Government were overthrown he would be prepared to work out this scheme himself, he could understand it. But the honourable gentleman had done no such thing. The present scheme was one which would injure the credit of the colony in every way. Mr. Bbodie supported the original motion. Mr. Cox and Mr. Gledhill spoke in favour of the amendment. Mr. Vogel supported the original motion. On the motion of the Postmaster-General, the debate was adjourned at midnight. Friday, September 8. The debate on the resolution was resumed this day. The Postmaster-General said, the Auckland party had been one in favour of enormous expenditure, and that it had overwhelmed the colony in debt. His honourable friend (Mr. Vogel) had spoken of the observations of the Defence Minister with respect to General Cameron as being childish, but he would put it to every honourable member whether, had the Ministry acted differently, they would not have scouted them from their seats. No one disputed General Cameron's gallantly ; that had already been too well established, and so had the undaunted bravery of the troops. With regard to the removal of the troops, he would question his honourable friend Mr. Stafford, who, in September 1858, remarked, "If further pecuniary aid is demanded of the colony for the troopß, there appears no alternative but the withdrawal of the troops." He (Major Richardson) trusted it would be believed that Ministers were but carrying out their policy then laid down. Such a demand as that contemplated by Mr. Stafford had been made, and Government felt that the troops had better be removed. It was all very well, in a time of profound peace, to accomplish certain objects, but he would remind the House that the acts of the present Ministry, and what they had achieved, had been during a time of war. He looked upon this question of separation aB one that Bought the destruction of New Zealand. How would Britain ever have become great had she still remained in three separate kingdoms ? Mr. Stateord said: Sir, I rise to address the House on this subject with some considerable embarrassment. I may, however, state, that the honourable gentleman who has brought this subject under the notice of the House has selected to take the question as one of a whole, whilst the honourable gentleman who has moved the amendment has also adopted a similar course. I may say, that in most of the speeches of the honourable gentlemen who have addressed the House, but few have confined themselves to the question of separation ; but I trust that I shall be able to confine myself, as nearly as possible, to that question, and to that only [hear, hear]. Not that I intend to say that the discursive way in which various subjects have been alluded to has been unjustifiable, but it is not now my intention to refer specially to the subjects of representation, the Militia Bill, or even the question of finance, and, with reference to the latter question, I am not permitted to speak at any length, for the same reason which induced me two days ago to support the motion of my honourable friend, the member for Lyttleton. I trust, however, that before the House is asked to go into the Estimates, that honourable members will have laid before them estimates of the votes proposed to be taken, and which would affect the whole of the finances of the colony. In discussing the subject now more immediately under consideration, I may very probably lay myself open to the reproach of sentimentalißm ; but I state broadly, that the question of Bentiment prevails very largely in the motives which appear to actuate honourable members on both sides of the House ; and I think it is impossible for any one to study history carefully, and not recognize that this very sentiment has been the main-spring in the noblest actions of the human race. The sentiments which pervade this House, are very like those which animated the Spartans at Thermopylae, which actuated the movements of Hampden, Washington, and other illustrious men [hear, hear]. It was this spirit of sentimentalism which animated the House of Commons when they struggled for the liberties of the people of England, and it was this which enabled the Covenanters of Scotland to abandon their hearths and homes and seek shelter in wild glens and mountain fastnesses rather than give up that which they conscientiously cherished. But, in the consideration of this question two descriptions of sentiment have prevailed. On the one side there is the sentiment of irritation arising from a sense of wounded self-respect and insult, and on the other side, there were those who hoped that the future for New Zealand would be that of a great united and homcegenous people [hear, hear]. Sir, I am actuated by the latter sentiment, and I wish I could exonerate the Ministry from the charge of having contributed to the irritation I have mentioned; but, I am bound to hold them responsible for having by their actions, their language, and their demeanor contributed rather to irritate than to soothe those who were opposed to them [hear, hear]. I can hardly conceive anything more blind — more infatuous — than was the conduct of the Government at the commencement of the present session. Ido regret that my honourable friend (the head of the Government) is not in his place, as I wished to allude to what had fallen from him ; but, as he is not here I will reserve what I have to say in the hope that the honourable gentleman will be present before I conclude. I believe that this question of separation will be heard of again and again — [hear, hear] — and that it will enter largely into the husting cries during the coming elections — [hear, hear] — and that in the Middle Island as well as in the North— throughout its length and breadth — members will be sent to this House especially pledged with reference to this question [hear, hear]. But, whilst I think and believe it to be probable that separation will come at no very distant period, still there were in the Middle Island a number of people who were halting in their opinions as to this question, people who answered the description given by Horace as starts pede in uno. I now see the honourable the Premier in his place, and I will now earnestly appeal to him to guide and moderate the action of the Ministry of which he is the head. I will ask my honourable friend whether it is not rather his duty to throw oil upon the troubled waters, rather than to use language calculated to irritate. I appeal to the honourable gentleman whether, in his calmer moments he has not regretted having, on more than one occasion, permitted himself to use expressions which could not be justified ? I ask the honourable gentleman whether the words "reckless expenditure" were deserved by the Ministry that preceded him in office ? Mr. Whitaker, who was the head of that Government, was my own colleague for some tune, and I know of no man in New Zealand who is superior. I say, also, with reference to another honourable gentleman (the late member for Wanganui), who had filled many public offices with credit to himself, and subsequently held high office in the Provincial Government of Wellington, it was not right that such terms as " reckless incompetency" should be applied to such, men aB him. I say abo, that with regard to my honourable friend the late Minister of Defence, that the term " reckless incompetency," ought not to be applied to him. [Hear, hear.] There was also another expression which had been applied to the late Ministry, which waß not in good taßte — it waß said of them, that " they had clung to office." I have had my own opinion as to what would have been proper for them to do, and I do believe it would have been better for themselves and for the country, if they had resigned sooner, but I know from private letters, that they did not remain in office from any sordid motives. [An honourable member ; "No one said they did."] I believe they remained in office, hoping almoßt against hope that they could yet see their way to giving effect to the almost unanimous policy of this House. Sir, it is more than twentytwo years Bince I, along with yourself, first set foot ■on the shores of New Zealand. I found a few strug- ■ gling settlers, but who, nevertheless, were a people of singular daring, of singular earaeitnesß/ who were try*
i ing to hope, that their acts would not only be attended ! with prosperity, but that they would result in the ;, establishment of that which would ultimately become • ' a great, powerful, and united people [Hear, hear.] [ I I have subsequently seen other settlements planted. ; ' I have seen them struggling amidst difficulties, and I have seen the difficulties gradually giving way, as the dark cloud before the rays of the sun. I have seen those men toiling so that the howling wilderneaa might from a sterile waste be converted into a flourishing country, and I hoped that I saw in these the stepping stones to the career of a great, united, and powerful nation. It has fullen to my lot twice to hold office in the Government of this country. I was the first elected Superintendent of the province of Nelson. I rejoiced in the glorious privilege of self-government ; and even now do I hope that my honourable friends may think it well to stay for a time their efforts to promote separation ; but if it is too late, and if I may be permitted to make the simile — if the ark of the constitution has already advanced so far into the rapids as to be beyond the power of extrication, and is about to plunge over the falls by which it will be destroyed, then remembering what I do of the colony from its infancy — remembering the part in its public affairs which it has been permitted to me to take, I am forcibly reminded of the saying of the illustrious Grattan in allusion to the one bright period in the history of Ireland — I have stood by its cradle, I have followed its hearse. The honourable member then resumed his seat amidst loud cheers. Mr. Carleton supported the motion for separation. Messrs. Wayne, Bunny, and ONeill also addressed the House. Mr. Ceosbie Ward said he had no sympathy with the mover of the resolution, but he thought, v the Ministry could be changed, the separation cry would cease. He admitted the fervour and enthusiasm of the Premier, and were there nothing for New Zealand but the self-reliant policy, he (Mr. Ward) would cordially go with him, but he remembered that the finest policy must rest on pounds, shillings, and pence. He would at once say he thought Government had not shown a good case, financially, for their native policy. Let it be granted for one moment that the policy was good, provided honourable members were permitted to work it out, was Government prepared to say that what they proposed should be done, or were they to meet in another session and receive excuses? Had Ministers done with interference by the Governor and the Imperial Government ; had they done with Imperial troops, or had they not ? Until that was done, their policy was liable to frustration at any moment. Let them not forget that the Colonial Treasurer had told them that the provinces could not receive the amount of revenue they had done hitherto ; let them not forget that the utmost limit of taxation was approaching, and when provinces must rest on their resources. In 1863, they had contracted the £3,000,000 loan, and the amount to be charged colonially was £1,500,000 ; yet now they had permitted nearly the whole of that loan to be charged on the colony. Their resources were not inexhaustible; and he should move an amendment, " That separation would not be desirable so long as the charges generally made on the colony for war and native expenditure did not exceed the liabilities authorized by existing loans." He had some years since supported a separation movement, but not since war had commenced, and he would not support it now except as an inevitable necessity, which, if it had not arrived, was fast arriving. With regard to the policy of self-reliance, it meant, he presumed, that men should defend themselves as the people of Auckland did in 1863. He would remind the House, however, of a distinguished American, Artemus Ward, who had sent his brother to the war, and said he was fully prepared to let him Bhed the last drop of his blood. That was like Middle Island self-reliance. The Native Minister, Messrs. Mantell, Dillon Bell, Reynolds, Taylor, and others addressed the House, and, on the motion of Mr. Macandrew, the House adjourned till noon of Saturday. Saturday, September 9. The debate on the question was again resumed this day. Mr. Bttckland said he approached this question with a large amount of nervous anxiety, the cause of which was that he thought the case of Auckland had not been properly placed before the House. Some of the speeches which had been given on this question were magnificent pieces of oratory, but with the exception of the honourable member for Nelson (Mr. Stafford), they had travelled somewhat beyond the question. There had long been rancours between the South and Auckland. Auckland was progressing rapidly, and had drawn on her the jealousy of the South. The success of the early colonists in Auckland was due, in great part, to the industry of the native race. The policy of 1861 commenced to destroy the native trade, and that initiated in 1863. At one time there was a fleet of schooners trading to the Bay of Plenty alone ; now, if a vessel were driven there, the crew were massacred and the vessel burnt. The honourable Premier had said that the Auckland people wanted courage and selfreliance. Did he forget the time when whole streets of shops had to be shut up in Auckland, and the inhabitants shouldered their rifles to go and fight the natives ? This fight at Wairoa, which was one of the most important that had taken place, had been fought by Auckland shopkeepers and shopboys. The terrible murders which had taken place lately, were largely attributable to the removal of the seat of Government from Auckland, and unless there was some kind of government placed there soon, there was no knowing where these horrors would end. The General Government had brought out labourers to Auckland, and had placed them in the centre of the island, where they could get no work, and where they were kept on half rations. Then, from the management of the present Government, the value of land in Auckland would not realise one-half of what it would have done when the Weld Ministry assumed office. The present policy of the Government was centralization, and the result would be the destruction of the extremes to the aggrandizement of the centre. He had spoken now to show that Auckland was prepared to bear any privations to obtain this separation, which she regarded as an absolute necessity ; and he considered that if the leaders of public opinion in Auckland did their duty, separation was inevitable. Mr. Jollie also spoke to the question. He was altogether opposed to separation, and proceeded to give his reasons in a somewhat lengthy speech why he was so. Mr. George Graham made some observations in favour of separation, as he did not wish to give a silent vote on the subject. He enlarged very much upon the native question, and contended that the natives could not be governed from Wellington. The Auckland people were self-reliant, and, if left to themselves, would be prepared to open up the country. Colonel Hatjltain said that this motion of separation had been forced upon them, and was not of their own seeking. He was quite prepared to say that the present Government had failed in their policy, and above all in that part of it which promised to send away the troops. The policy that had been declared nine months ago had not been carried out, none of the troops had yet gone. Auckland was now prepared to run the risk of undertaking separation, rather than have to submit to the policy of the present Government. Mr. WaiiKEb said he did not like to be the only man not to address the House. He had listened to the debate with considerable attention and astonishment — attention on account of the importance of the subject, and astonishment that, notwithstanding the enormous amount of verbiage that had been indulged in, he had not heard one single argument in favour of the division of the colony. The Defence Minister said he was going to say but little about the main question — Separation — as the mover of the resolution had brought so many accusations against the Government that he felt bound, as Minister for Colonial Defence, to answer them. He should, therefore, be replying chiefly to what the mover of the resolutions had said. With regard to his statement that Taranaki, was not in a much better position to that which it formerly oo-
cupied, it was untrue : it was much better off, and he could say that settlers could move anywhere about Taranaki. He said that all the country the Government had settled was safe. The honourable gentleman had said that he did not complain about there being too few troops or militia in the Waikato, but he complained that these men were kept in pay, idle. He had been astonished at that new light thrown on the usual arguments ol Auckland members. [Mr. Russell : I did not use that argument.] Well, he supposed he must take it that the honourable gentlemen had not used those words, but he had so understood him. He (the Defence Minister) said that great exertions had been made to get tho land surveyed for the military settlements, and that not a single day had been lost in fulfilling the conditions on which the military settlers had been enlisted. The honourable member had said that not a single acre of land had been sold in the Waikato, but he could say that a great part of it had been allocated to military settlers. The honourable member had then gone on to say that if the Wanganui-Tara-naki campaign had not been commenced, the country would have been saved, and he had also said that, if the present Ministry had gone on to cut down the expenditure as his Government had begun, the country would have been much better off than it was. But he could tell the honourable gentleman plainly that his Government had not known themselves the expenditure that was going on when they left office, and that the present Ministry had themselves not known what the expenditure was for some months after they had taken office. He could tell the honourable gentleman that a steady decrease in the expenditure had been going on since Ministers had taken office. With regard to tlie statement that if the campaign had not been undertaken the colony would have been saved, he asked the House whether £20,000 saved — for £20,000 was the cost of carrying on the Wanganui campaign — could have been sufficient to warrant a statement that the colony would have been saved ? Mr. Russell had said that they had no men, as they had no money, to settle the country for which they commenced the campaign ; but the campaign, he said, must have been undertaken if they had not a man to place in the country. He then went into details of the campaign, and stated various economical plans that the Government had adopted with regard to the settlers and their settlement on the lands. He briefly referred to the memorials of the settlers in the Waikato, and said that Mr. Russell, as former Defence Minister, had been the cause of the insecurity of the Waikato settlers mentioned in their memorials. The honourable gentleman had said that the Government's policy had failed, because the Government had applied to the Home Government, but he (the Minister for Colonial Defence) said that the Government had relied on itself, but he did not think that any one would preclude them from fairly stating their cause to the Imperial Government, and of accepting the Imperial Government's assistance, if offered. The honourable member (Colonel Haultain) had said that the Government had forced the alternative of separation on the House. But he contradicted such a statement ; the Government had not done so. Auckland, he said, was — he could hardly find a word strong enough — cursed with a disgraceful press ; but, notwithstanding that, he could rest his belief on the people of Auckland. He believed they had to thank the Auckland press for the present discontent, the panic of settlers, and the bitter feeling between some Auckland people and Ministers. He considered thafc the honourable mover of the resolutions had failed in a necessary duty, and that was to have proposed some better policy of government than the present, which he had so strongly condemned. If the Waikato were not kept settled, he could assure the honourable members for Auckland, Taranaki could not be occupied. He had admired the speech of the honourable member for Nelson (Mr. Stafford) and also that of the honourable member for Wallace (Mr. Dillon Bell), with regard to the sentiment of which they had spoken. When he came out to New Zealand many years ago, he had an idea that he was helping to found a great country, and if the hopes that sentiment inspired were taken away, he should feel distressed. Let us, he said, have a little patience, bear and forbear, and keep the colony united [applause]. Mr. Ceeighton said that the only thing that prevented the present Government from doing little short of repudiation, was the public opinion expressed by the Auckland press. Mr. Thompson said he hoped this debate would be brought to a close, as it was quite evident that the separation question could not be carried ; and he thought the only two grievances that the Auckland members, that he could see, had complained of had been removed. Mr. Macandrew would speak closely to the point. He wished- that the speech of the honourable member for Nelson had struck the same chords in the breasts of other honourable members as it had in his. He thought that if the House would have allowed such sentiments as those expressed by the honourable member for Nelson (Mr. Stafford) to actuate it, they would have sent the question of separation to the tomb of the Capulets. The future of the colony, he said, was trembling in the balance, and if the balance proved in favour of separation, all his aspirations for a great and united country would be thrown down. Otago, he said, had done its best to keep the colony whole, and he relied on the Assembly to uphold the unity of the colony, and avert the catastrophe which now threatened. If the present policy was carried out, he held that the North and Middle Islands should be shut up to ask for separation. If the policy of the Government were not altered, he must suppose that it was stereotyped, after what had been expressed during the debate. That policy was to tax the Middle Island to carry on a war in the North Island, and that in the face of the request of Auckland members to take a share in the management of native affairs. He had looked over the Estimates brought down by the Government, and he was sure that they could be cut down one-quarter easily ; but he thought, to manage with proper economy, they could be reduced onehalf, without any detriment to the good government of the colony. He had never seen such an amount of useless expenditure — it was unparalleled. If these Estimates were forced on the House, he thought. there was nothing left to choose but separation. He believed himself that it was possible to escape separation, but the House thought differently, and had said so ; he was bound therefore to accept one of two alternatives — separation, or spoliation by taxation. He thought that such a statement as that made in the other House by the Colonial Secretary, which had appeared in the newspapers, should be censured. That statement was, that Otago, the commercial capital of New Zealand, and which had contributed one-third of the revenue towards carrying on the war, was a bubble, and would soon burst [hear, hear]. Mr. Brandon opposed the resolution. He could not see, if Auckland got separation, why other provinces should not too. Mr. Burns supported the resolutions. Mr. Renall said he had never expected, when he came into the colony and had seen the inauguration of self-government, this separation question to come on. In all countries, he said, portions of them had grievances, and he was only sorry that the position which Auckland had taken as regarded the great question of centrul Government, prevented a representative of it being in the Government of the colony. For, if there was a representative of Auckland in the Government, he did not think that Auckland would have gone to that extent to which she had now gone. He did think that no such observation as that made with regard to Otago being a bubble, which was about to burst, should be made by Ministers of the Crown, as it could not be disguised that statements of men in the position of Ministers of the Crown had great weight. The House adjourned at half-past five, and resumed at seven o'clock, when Mr. Renall continued his remarks. The honourable member for Otago (Mr. Macandrew) had Baid he would give up the position which he intended to take with regard to separation if some accommodation, financially, were made [Mr. Macandrew : hear, hear]. He could not pretend to say whether anything could be done, but he hoped the honourable member would refrain from keeping up a cry for
separation, and he believed that the difficulties caused by this unhappy war would not be lasting, while the evil of separation would be great and long. He said it seemed the common course of New Zealand Parliaments to have a Government to knock down, and another to raise up. He said he lived sixty -five miles away from the town, and there was only a track through his township — though the township had been all sold, a road had not been made. Ho had hoped to have some share of the three-eighths Customs to make that road, so thafc honourable members would see that he, with those honourable members from Dunedin, were tarred with the same brush. He hoped, however, before long, the great causes of that evil would have been removed. Mr. O'Rorke moved the adjournment of the debate, but the question being put, it was negatived. The Colonial Treasurer said the question brought before the House by the late Minister for Defence, Mr. Russell, was one of larger dimensions and greater importance than had been hitherto proposed to the New Zealand Legislature. Accordingly, the House expected that the honourable member would have supported such a motion by cogent arguments and close reasoning, that he would have risen above the ordinary low level of party spirit, and soared into the higher and wider regions of colonial statesmanship. But if such hopes were entertained, they were doomed to disappointment. Without venturing to inquire whether the honourable member thought, by the course he was pursuing, to secure a party triumph, or whether he was merely labouring under pressure of a dearth of argument, wherewith to support his proposals : certain it was, that whereas the honourable member adduced only a few weak reasons in favour of his motion, he travelled over the entire range of parliamentary discussion, and seized with avidity on every topic which appeared likely to furnish support to a party attack on the present Ministry. Still, he (Mr. Fitzherbert) should not have deemed it necessary to follow the honourable member through his wanderings, had he not thought proper to make an attack on the financial administration of the present Government. As, however, the honourable member had chosen to do so, in direct and explicit terms, and as it was well known that he was not only a leading member of the late Government, but also a Director of the Bank of New Zealand, through which establishment the Government business had been conducted, he thought the House would expect him, as Treasurer of the colony, to meet the charges. His principal object, therefore, in rising to address the House, was to accept the challenge which had thus been thrown down by. the late Minister for Defence, rather than to discuss the merits of the important question raised by the motion before the House. He confessed that it waß with extreme reluctance that he came forward on this occasion, but the taunt, that his honourable friend at the head of the Government would not have dared to face the late honourable member for Rangitikei, coupled with the unprovoked and unjustifiable attack of the late Minister for Defence on the financial administration of the present Government, had unsealed his lips, and in order that the conduct of Government might not be misrepresented, and to give the House an opportunity of fully understanding the relative positions of the late and the present Government, as to the financial exigencies of the colony, in November 1864 (when the change of Government occurred), it became imperative on him to refer to interviews which would otherwise have remained unrecorded. He must ask honourable members to refresh then? memories, as to the circumstances under which the House met last session. It will be recollected that on that occasion their predecessors did not yield to the present Government in consequence of any adverse actions on their part, for the country was virtually without a Ministry when the House met. Having been thus called upon without the slightest sign or motion on their part to accept the responsibility of the Government, they discovered within a few days of taking office that the financial condition of the colony was truly alarming. Indeed, had he (the Colonial Treasurer) been aware of the real state of the finances he would never have undertaken such a task. If for no other reason, he should have declined it from diffidence of his power to grapple with Buch a Btate of things. And he must say, that when his Excellency asked his then Ministers in September last year, to furnish him with a statement of the financial condition of the colony, they were greatly to blame, as he (the Colonial Treasurer) thought, for fencing with the question in the way they did. Now, in the opinion of his colleagues, it was indispensible for the success of then: policy that the last session should not be a protracted one. But if the combustible materials contained in the famous memorandummiad were once ignited, all hope of bringing the session to a speedy cloße must have been abandoned. Under these circumstances, he (the Colonial Treasurer) sought an interview with the late honourable member for Rangitikei in the presence of their mutual friend, the honourable member for Wellington (Dr. Featherston), and frankly explained Ms views of the state of financial embarrassment in which the late Government had left the colony ; and appealed to him, not without success at last, not to add to those embarrassments, which the present Government had to take over from their predecessors, byopening up questions which, would protract the session. Accordingly, the late member for Rangitikei declined the temptation of displaying his oratorical powers ; and the members of the present Government not only refrained from throwing stones, but when the honourable member for Wallace and the honourable member for Ellesmere, desired last session, to move for a committee to inquire into the financial condition of the country, the Colonial Treasurer intimated that he should regard the motion in a technical sense — and the motion was not pressed. And although his honourable friend at the head of the Government had on that occasion declared that he would not oppose any Buch motion if made the next session; and although his Excellency was not advised to attach his signature to a certain covering warrant for the expenditure of the months of July, August, September, October, and November, 1864, pending any action that might be taken by the House — yet the Government had not initiated any motion in the House in reference thereto ; and he could appeal to his honourable friend, the chairman of the Audit Committee, that they had not any intention of doing so, up to the very moment that the honourable member, the late Minister for Defence, rose to make his attack on the financial conduct of the Government. Almost all the members of the late Government had ceased to be members of the House, and the present Government had hitherto carefully refrained from commencing any attack upon them in their absence. However, the honourable member's conduct had entirely removed any scruples on that score ; and his colleagues now fairly challenged him to substantiate bis charges. But, before inquiring into the particulars of those charges, he must be allowed to congratulate the honourable member for having profited by his extensive professional experience in the law courts ; where he had no doubt occasionally watched, with some interest, cases where the real culprit appeared in the capacity of a much injured prosecutor. He (Mr. Fitzherbert) believed he should eventually succeed in placing the honourable member in his proper position before the House j but in the meantime he had certainly endeavoured, with consummate assurance, to turn the tables on the Government. He would take the charges seriatim, as they appeared in the notes he had taken at the time, which tallied pretty well with the report of the honourable member's speech, as it was published in the newspaper. The honourable member charged the Government with not having continued the cutting down the expenditure commenced by the late Government ; that if that had been carried out, the colony would have been in a better state than ever. [Mr. Russell here interrupted the honourable member, and said he did not use the word " ever " but " now."] And he protested against the unauthorized expenditure wiih regard to the Wanganui campaign. He (Mr. Fitzherbert) expressed his surprise that the honourable member should level such charges against the present Government, charges which he felt would either recoil upon that honourable gentleman's own head, or drive the present Government from office. He could not but express his surprise and chagrin when big honourable Mend oharged
the present Government with having been extravagant in the expenditure of the Three Million Loan. He confessed that if that charge had been made by any other honourable member, he (Mr. Fitzherbert) should not have made any complaint. His honourable friend appeared entirely to have forgotten that he was a member of that Government, which, by means of a series of hills drawn, to the extent of no less a Bum than £823,000, by the members of his Government (in which some how or other they certainly did manage to permit the name of their colleague Mr. Fox to appear pretty frequently) on the London branch of the Bank of New Zealand, of which institution he was a director — contrived to discount and anticipate funds which had no actual existence at the time. And although young men in the colonies did sometimes resort to such practices, and draw on that cool stream which is said to be ever flowing at Aldgate, yet the instances on record were, he believed, extremely rare, in which, with such transactions fresh before them, they proceeded to read a lecture on economy to their dupes. He appeared also to have forgotten that he was a member of that Government, which by forcing the sale of the first million of debentures, in order to cover these drafts, contrived at one and the same time to save the bank of which he was a director, and sacrifice the colony to the extent of not much less than £196,000. And again, he (the Colonial Treasurer) would ask how it could be that the present Government would have placed the colony in a better position now, if they hadfollowed the economising example set them by their predecessors ; when, by a reference to the Bank account, it would be found that, on 15th November last (just before the honourable member left office) the overdrawn account amounted to no less a sum than £829,666 10s. 3d. ; and that, at the latest advices received from Auckland, namely, 22nd August last, the overdrawn amount had been reduced to £30,161 155. 7d. [hear, hear]. Another fact which could not be denied was, that the extravagant expenditure, which the honourable member says ought to have been cut down according to the example of retrenchment set the present Government by their predecessors, has not only been incurred mainly within the Province of Auckland, but has been bo incurred on account of liabilities deliberately fastened on the colony by the honourable member himself. That the expenditure which the honourable member complains has reached £75,000 a month, instead of being -reduced to £40,000, has been principally incurred within the Province of Auckland, is proved by the following figures, which are the amounts of the monthly estimates of the Auckland Sub-Treasurer, namely — 1865. £ s. d. March . . . 50,610 6 8 April .... 52,129 14 10 May .... 51,875 10 10 June .... 36,560 16 9 July .... 49,554 4 2 August . . . 40,990 5 9 September . . . 41,635 910 . The honourable member therefore intends the House to conclude that he disapproves of this lavish expenditure wiiicii the present G-oYernment Imb made amongst his constituents ; and that he differs from his other colleagues and the public press of his province, who unite in condemning the present Government for abstracting the revenues of Auckland and expending them elsewhere. And the honourable member further, it would seem, doeß not hesitate to ask the House to forget the assertion hazarded by him in a former part of his speech, viz., that the present Government had shamelessly broken faith, by refusing to allow certain expenditure within the Province of Auckland. His honourable friend had protested against the unauthorized expenditure of the Wanganui campaign. No doubt, last session, the precise amount of expenditure for that service was not included in any Appropriation Act ; and for the very simple reason, that the House agreed that it would not proceed to pass appropriations until after the end of the financial period which had yet seven months unexpired to run. But the undertaking itself, in respect of which the honourable member complains that the expenditure was unauthorised, was prominently noticed in the Ministerial speeches ; formed a main feature of the policy of the present Government, and did, moreover, receive the sanction of the House. It was not only unfair, therefore, to complain of the financial conduct of the Government on this point ; but it was substantially incorrect to assert that the expenditure was unauthorized. The next class of charges brought against the Government by the honourable member, was to the effect, that the Colonial Treasurer "had made a deceptive statement : that he had failed to disclose the outstanding liabilities : that he had kept bach these facts, viz., that the eight per cent, debentures were selling in the colony itself at a reduction of five per cent : that they were unsaleable in Sydney, and under par at home : and also, that the million eight per cent, debentures were falling due." The honourable member said he had not been informed what outstanding liabilities the colony was pledged to pay. Now, if the House was not informed of them, the honourable member was not to blame; for those liabilities had, on many past and present occasions, to be ascertained in the dark corners of the earth [hear, hear]. It was impossible for any Treasurer to state liabilities he did not know of. It, however, occurred to him that his honourable friend knew of some liabilities which nobody else did. If so, it was rather hard to charge him (Mr. Fitzherbert) with not disclosing them [a laugh]. He knew of none that he had not disclosed. He had informed the House that there were outstanding liabilities to the amount of £270,000, which would come in the course of fulfilment during the present financial year, to redeem the pledges given by their predecessors. He had shown to the House that, in round numbers, £600,000 was the remnant after the feast of the £3,000,000 on which the honourable member had fed ; and now the fragments they had picked up (which did not, however, fill twelve baskets) were carefully examined, and they were asked to give an account of these old crusts, which, like careful housekeepers, they had picked up. The honourable member said, " You have not picked up all the crumbs." It was, however, all a myth [Mr. Russell : I mean current liabilities]. The honourable member might just as well talk of plum liabilities (or any other nonsense fit for Punch). For not only had the whole of the curent liabilities been discharged, but also all those up to the end of the present financial period ; and not only had they been disclosed, but specific, and as he (the Colonial Treasurer) believed, ample proposals had been made to cover the whole of them. When the honourable member said that the Colonial Treasurer had concealed the fact that the 8-per-cent. debentures were being sold at a reduction of 5 per cent, in the colony, ho was altogether breaking oub of bounds and misleading the House. If he had contented himself with saying, " I think Government made a mistake when it parted with a pertion of these debentures to the Taranaki claimants, because they would be likely to injure the market by disposing of them below par," he would have had some show of argument on his side, and he (the Colonial Treasurer) should have readily conceded that the present Government in their desire no longer to trifle with the poor Taranaki settlers (who had received the sympathy of preceding Governments, but nothing more) had run the risk of slightly damaging the local sale of these debentures by the course pursued. But when it was recollected that the proceeds of £788,348 19s. 4d. of debentures disposed of within a period of oix months, viz., from Ist January, 1865, to 30th June, 1865, had realized no less a sum than £791,904 15s. lid. it did seem unaccountable that an honourable member, who also a director of the bank, which at present conducted the Government business, should permit himself to state (and apparently to glory in the statement), "That tho treasurer concealed from the House the information that these debentures were selling below par in the colony." Surely the honourable member had no desire to take advantage of his position to damage the sale of the Government securities, and thus prolong the period of dependence of the Government on his bank. If the House should ever have reason to entertain such a belief, it would receive the statements of honourable members, who were also directors of that bank, with great caution j not to say distrust. But the honourable member teemed to gloat oier the supposed
pecuniary embarassments of the colony ; for his | next charge was to the effect, that the Treasurer had concealed the fact that these debentures were not saleable in Sydney. What will be the opinion of the House when he (Mr. Fitzherbert) reads an extract from the very last despatch received from the Inspector of the Bank of New Zealand which the honourable member is a director, dated Auckland, 22nd August, 1865. He quoted paragraph 2 of that letter, in extenso, viz. : — " I have also the honour to inform you that further sales have been effected in Sydney, to the extent of £15,000, for which (with accrued interest from Ist July) your account here was credited on 21st instant £15,069 9s. sd. per statement of particulars herein. I inclose the first coupons cut off, twenty-six in number. The brokers report that the approaching offer of a £50,000 five per cent, loan of the New South Wales Government may possibly interfere temporarily with the sale of the remainder of your eight per cents., but are hopeful that further sales may be soon effected." What further will be the conclusion of honourable members, when they are informed that almost every mail —he believed he might say every mail, had brought similar accounts and favourable reports of steady sales at Sydney, from the date at which the agent of the Bank of New Zealand left these debentures behind him, for sale on account of the Government. It is scarcely worth, while to notice the last specific chaTge made by the honourable member, viz., that the Treasurer had failed to disclose in his financial statement the fact that the million 8 per cents, debentures were falling due. It is quite true that the Treasurer did not inform the House that they were falling due. Had he done so, he would have been justly blameable for having endeavoured to deceive the House. The truth is that these securities are not falling due. Out of £788,348 16s. 4d. sales reported up to the 30th of June last, only £115,068 16s. 4d. fall due within the present financial year ; and none of those sold since the 30th June, fall due within the present financial year. It is perhaps significant to add that £100,000 out of the £115,068 16s. 4d. thus falling due within the financial year, were disposed of to the directors of the Bank of New Zealand, of whom the honourable member (the late Defence Minister) is one ; and that they declined to accept from the Colonial Treasurer Debentures with a longer currency, in exchange for those Treasury Bills which his honourable friend's Government issued to them, and for which it was necessary to make provision, as they were falling due in the months of January, February, and March, of the present year. This gratuitous statement of the honourable member — contrary to facts — coming as it did from one in his peculiar position, did not appear to present altogether a nice complexion. • He (the Colonial Treasurer) hoped that it might prove otherwise. But when he (the Colonial Treasurer) came to reflect that the finance of the previous Government (of which the honourable member who preferred those unfounded charges, was a member at the same time that he remained a director of the bank) was characterized as one of T>lxvng*Tig tlao colony into loans of yasfe dimensions, and long deferred redemption, fchafc its Byatem of raising money was by discount and anticipations — that in all these particulars, it presented the strongest possible contrast to the system of finance pursued by the present Government, which Bternly declined to contract further loans, set itself in a determined manner to pay off the extravagant debts of its predecessors, dared to face the unpopular task of raising the income by increased taxation, and fearlessly economized the funds of the colony, so far as the faith of the colony heedlessly pledged by its predictions would permit. These reflections did seem to account for the regrets of the honourable member, that the Treasurer should at length have succeeded in piloting the vessel of State into the more tranquil waters of public credit and confidence, which, if undisturbed, might lead to undesired competition, and to explain fully his views when he said " that he had read the financial statement of the Colonial Treasurer, and was surprised at the future prosperity he presented of the state of the colony, and that he had thought at first there must be some foundation for it. But that was removed, he was sorry to say, by inquiry." But his honourable friend should have been one of the last persons to indulge in such attacks. For the bulk of the expenditure incurred by- the late Government, large and lavish as that had been, had been incurred under the immediate control of the honourable member, if not as Acting Treasurer for some time, yet certainly as Minister for Defence. He would refer briefly to an instance or two of the way in which the honourable member used to make the money fly in hia time. When he (Mr. Fitzherbert) came into office, he found demands were being constantly made for payment for sawing timber. He first inquired what Government had to do with Bawing timber? But he was soon silenced, and informed that not only did the late Government draw bills like any mercantile firm, but that they had taken up with the shipping business, and invested in a flotilla ; that they had speculated in laying down a tramroad, which was so perfectly useless as to have long since become a ridicule and familiarity, known as " Russell's folly ;" and at last, as if they had not enough irons in the fire, they went into saw mills and sawing timber. [Mr. Russell : hear, hear.] His honourable friendsaid, "hear, hear," as if he gloried in these things. But, according to his (the Colonial Treasurer's) humble opinion, it was absolutely contrary to the first principles of Government for a Cabinet to be meddling with such pursuits ; and he knew, of his own personal knowledge, that several Auckland Bottlers regarded with distrust and aversion this interference of commercial enterprise. Still, however, if such things must needs be, they formed an integral part of the policy of the late Government to enter upon such enterprises proprim persona ; surely there could be no reason why they should not have been conducted with precaution and exactitude, and the usual rules of business made applicable. Hia honourable friend, the present Minister for Defence, had furnished him with the following explanatory statement, viz. : — "The original terms with the military settlers were, that there should be a block-house built in each village for each company." Subsequently, these terms were altered by Mr. Russell, at the suggestion of Colonel Haultain, to the effect that each man should receive £10 worth of sawn timber, to assist him in building a house. An earthen redoubt, which could be erected without cost, to be thrown up by fatigue parties instead of the block-houses. Notwithstanding this, extensive barracks and stores were ordered to be erected for the whole force in the towns of Alexandra, Cambridge, and Hamilton, but such as could be stopped, were so by the present Defence Minister. Owing to the manner in which the arrangements were entered into, deliveries have been made so loosely that any check on the quantity has become exceedingly difficv.lt. The contractor is said to have arranged to pay a certain sum for all trees that had been previously felled ; but this is only referred to incidentally, and the amount chargeable on this account (if any) cannot yet be ascertained ; neither does there appear to be any means of doing this unless the contractor himself should state it. It is not even known whether this applies to both contracts, or to Jeffcott's only." The particulars of figures are as follows, viz. : — £ E. Jeffcott to supply 500,000 feet at 19s. 4,750 Gibbons and Co. to supply 1,500,000— 500,000 at 195., 1,000,000 ut 21s. . 15,250 20,000 Jeffcott has received . . 3,650 0 0 Gibbons and Co. have received . 11,254 9 2 14,904 9 2 Of which latter sum £2,800 only was paid before the 22nd November, 1864. And yet for this large amount no bonds appear to have been entered into, nor regular formal articles of contract or agreement drawn up, with care and precision. And so complicated is the whole matter with regard to these timber contracts, that the officer, Major Jackson, who was the most familiar with the affair, has been nearly three months engaged in the investigation, and has not yet been able to report, [Colonel Savit
tain : Because he could not get the account from Wellington]. [Major Atkinson: He could only say that neither the gallant member nor Major Jackson had reported this, which should have been done]. But however this might be, enough has been said to show that the whole affair has been entered into and condemned in the loosest possible manner. No respectable mercantile firm would have rushed into operations, involving so large an amount of expenditure, without requiring agreements and bonds of the strictest character to be first entered into, and certainly there were not characters with that precision which would justify the honourable member in delivering lectures on financial management. Then there was the affair of the iron, with Messrs. Graham and Co. It appeared that the Government and that Auckland firm had been shipping iron to Waikato at the same time, and that the Messrs. Graham were allowed to take from the Government shipments to enable them to get on with their contracts. The result was that the Government somehow came to consider that they had a large claim on Messrs. Graham and Co. ; but when he (the Colonial Treasurer) inquired into the question and referred it to the Attorney-General for his legal opinion, the whole affair appeared to have been so loosely conducted, that the Government had not a leg to stand upon. Many other cases might be referred to, but the details would only weary the House. He would, however, say a word as to the method of conducting the departmental business of the Treasury which prevailed during the tenure of office of the late Government. It was usual to make requisitions, unaccompanied by details, on the Treasurer, who came to be regarded as a sort of quiet milch cow, who was expected to give down milk to everybody without even a kick [laughter]. It had not been the custom it appeared to demand particulars, and the Treasurer used thus to pay away money without a murmur. It was a pleasant kind of life for the Treasurer if the supply had only lasted [laughter]. But he (the Colonial Treasurer) happening to be of an inquiring turn of mind, made objections, and at last insisted on turning over a new leaf. Detailed warrants, which apparently were considered to be troublesome documents in the halcyon days of his honourable friend, the late Minister for Defence, and discarded as impediments to the rapid progress of business, were now fortunately the rule ; and he trusted that even his honourable friend would admit, in hiß unprejudiced moments, that the present system was an improvement. He (the Colonial Treasurer) having now rebutted the charges of the honourable member, and brought counter-charges, must be permitted to say a word or two on the subject-matter of the motion. For most of what had hitherto been Baid on both sides, following therein the example set them by the honourable mover, had not much more to do with the question of separation, than " the man in the moon." It would be observed that the most remarkable arguments had been adduced by the honourable members for Auckland in favour of separation, of which the following might be taken as samples. One argument was, that his honourablefriend (themember for Ellesmero) taj. been, appointed KTa-ti-ve Minister, and, therefore, they must have separation! Another reason given, was the inefficiency and extravagance of the present Government. That seemed to be the main argument on which the honourable mover himself relied for carrying his motion. It did not seem to occur to the honourable gentleman, that the proper remedy for such a state of things was to oust the present Government and replace it by one more competent. Then there was another argument of a most singular character ; it belonged to the honourable member for the Northern Division [Mr. O'Neil] who, with a countenance radient with hope, intimated that if the House would only offer him somely of the territorial revenue, he would say no more about separation at present. There was another aspect in which the question presented itself, so far as the members for Auckland were concerned. A conviction had gradually been gaining on the House, that the members for that part of the colony did not really desire separation. Like schoolboys, they had a task to repeat, and they had said it after schoolboy fashion. But in reality," they were too shrewd men of the world not to perceive that if the united colony could scarcely sustain the drain on its own resources occasioned by the present rebellion, it would be absurd to suppose that a mere fragment could bear the strain. But Auckland knew very well that under no circumstances would they receive elsewhere such generous treatment as they had received from the South, and which he would venture to say, they would continue to receive. For the South had borne with the petulance of her Auckland friends, just as a parent would bear with the waywardness of a child just recovering from sickness. Altogether, he was very sorry for the wretched figure which his Auckland friends had exhibited in the present debate, which was one of the most miserable that had ever disgraced any Assembly — he, of course, was regarding it from an argumentative and philosophical point of view. So much with reference to the Auckland side of the question ; as to the Southern view, there could be no doubt that the South had made considerable sacrifices. It could not be denied, however, that these sacrifices had been originally entailed on the South by Southern voteß, but nobly had the Southern members redeemed their pledges in that respect. At the same time, the Government had thought it necessary to lead out trumps, in reference to the future disposition of territorial revenue, in a certain event, and with the best possible result. There remained, however, one consideration, bearing on the question of separation, which affected North and South equally, and which, as Treasurer of the colony, he felt bound to submit to the serious consideration of the House. Honourable members might rest assured that from the moment separation was determined on (if indeed such a calamity did really await the colony), capitalists would fight shy of investments, the securities of the colony would be handed over as a fitting prey for small speculators, and the credit of the colony would be doomed. The honourable member, after a speech of three hours, Bat down amidst loud cheering, and the House adjourned. Tuesday, Septembeb 12. The adjourned debate on Mr. Russell's resolutions was opened by Mr. R. Gbaham (Superintendent of Auckland), who said that the policy of the Government, with respect to the withdrawal of the troops, had roused the natives to further rebellion. He referred to the fact of Auckland, having been left, on the removal of the seat of Government, without any representative of the Government, in a time of great difficulty and danger. One charge he made against the Government was, that they had left no officer in Auckland to purchase native lands. He had consequently been obliged to act on his own responsibility, in order to keep faith with the natives. The honourable member then referred to the conduct of the Government in having put a stop to the scheme for the settlement of the Bay of Islands. Another charge which he had to bring against the Government he would not enter into fully at the present time, as it would require a debate of several hours to discuss it. He referred to the conduct of the Government with respect to the settlement of the Waikato. Mr. John Williamson, in a speech of some considerable length, went through the whole case of Auckland. He showed that the demand for separation from the South, was not a new one for Auckland, but that it was mooted in the early days of the colony, and was lately considered necessary by Sir George Grey. He dwelt on the commercial position of Auckland, and its large coasting trade. He pointed out the difficulty of forming a Government for the colony as it stood, which should include members from both North and South, on account of the conflicting questions which must arise in the Cabinet. The people of Auckland were now united in a demand for separation, and the province could bear the charges a separate Government would entail. The honourable gentleman went into figures to show that Auckland could raise a revenue of £400,000 a year, while he estimated that the permanent charges arising from interest of debt, cost of military, and Government, would be £250,000, leaving £150,000 for public works. The items of expeoted revenue were thus given j—
It was contended that as one of these regiments would be maintained at the cost of the Home Government, the deduction for this would reduce the charges Auckland would have to meet £250,000, to which would leave a surplus in round numbers of £150,000 a-year. The honourable member concluded by saying, that the way to settle the troubles of the North Island, was not by waging war on the natives, but by introducing valuable colonists, and by employing the natives in industrial pursuits. The Attobney-Genebal, in replying to the last speaker, said the honourable member had endeavoured to show that separation was financially practicable ; he estimated the revenue of Auckland at £400,000 ; aggregate expenses, including permanent charges at £250,000, leaving a surplus for railways and other such undertakings of £150,000. He had magnified the Customs revenue, entirely forgetful of the circumstances under which the province was able to command that revenue. It arose from duties on imports, of which no more could be introduced than the province could pay for, and any one who was not a child could see, that the large amount of those duties during the last two years in Auckland, had been caused bj the enormous expenditure there, the end of which was contemplated even by the honourable member himself. A great stimulus had also been given to commerce of every kind by the expenditure of borrowed money, but unfortunately the time had arrived when they had money to pay. That was what had caused the revenue of Auckland. He did not wish to be understood as sayipg anything against that province, for he had a very high opinion of its capabilities and resources, but he protested against tKe House being misled by any sham calculations, as it had been in 1862. The honourable member put down nothing for the internal defence of the province, which for the next year was set down by Ministers at £300,000 or £400,000 ; he(Mr. Sewell) supposed that the Waikato Militia were to be sent about their business, this, too, by those gentlemen who were ready to charge the Government with repudiation. In lieu of that, they would have three regiments of Imperial troops, one at no cost at all, the other two at £40 a man, or more. The honourable member has also forgotten to include £50,000, the cost of the native establishments ; were they to be governed or not ? The honourable gentleman proceeded to show how native affairs had progressed when an Auckland Ministry was in power, and argued from their conduct, the natives were likely to be as well governed by the South as the North. He rebutted the charges brought against the Government for dealing unfairly with Auckland concerning the Government House and grounds, and the Bay of Islands Settlement. With regard to the grievances concerning the Auckland immigrants, when the present Government came into office, he said, they found that a number of immigrants were arriving in Auckland for whom there was no provision whatever, such had been the maladministration of the previous Government. Arrangements were made to hand over the management of them to the Provincial Government, the General Government undertaking to pay the cost incidental to their importation, locating them on their land, and their maintenance, for a certain time. The General Government could not do more, for they were dependent at the time entirely on the liberality of their bankers, and the Provincial Government was told that on it rested the onus of finding these people employment. The General Government, however, provided for the emigrants for a longer time than they were bound to do, and, moreover, let the Provincial Government have some securities on which to raise money. Money could not be had, and the Provincial Government seemed very reluctant to give any assistance to the General Government in this emergency. He (the Attorney-General) communicated with Mr. Newman, who was managing the matter, and told him that the province ought to give some assistance in the common strait, and that the Auckland and Drury railway, a work the province was undertaking, might be postponed. He (Mr. Sewell) said that it was a hard thing for the southern provinces to feel that they were bound to suspend their public works for the Bake of Auckland, which was carrying on public works without hindrance. The Province of Auckland should have stepped forward to assist in what was, after all, for their own advantage. Mr. Newman replied, that he thought the South ought not to be envious, and that Providence had placed the means in the hands of the province for carrying out these works. He turned up the whites of his eyes, and lifted up his hands, and had a kind of holy unction about him [laughter]. There was an internal thanksgiving in his mind that Providence had given Auckland these means, whilst it had its hands in the pockets of the colony [laughter]. He (Mr. Sewell) scarcely ever felt more indignant than when the province refused to come forward in this common emergency, whilst the General Government was struggling for its sake. At last, when the General Government thought it proper to give these emigrants an opportunity of going to other parts of the colony, then the Provincial Government accepted the securities which they had at first refused. The honourable gentleman concluded by showing the utter impracticability of the scheme proposed by the Home Government, nor would the creditors of the colony be parties to it. Mr. Russell, in reply, commenced by saying that he had never sought office, which had been almost forced upon him, and that while he was a Minister, he give up to his duties his whole time and energies. He proceeded next to show that his services on behalf of the colony had been sufficiently esteemed to call for a special acknowledgement on the part of his colleagues, and by the Governor. The honourable gentleman then proceeded to explain the timber transaction, which had been made a ground of charge against him by the Colonial Treasurer. He said, the first remark made was, that it was an exceedingly improper thing for the Government to enter into the contracts for sawing timber, that it was not the business of a Government. I maintain that it was the business of the Government. That ifc was necessary to get the timber for building houses, stores, liospitals.Jwharves, and other necessary accompaniments of colonization in the Waikato. The next charge was, that the arrangement for the delivery of that timber was so defective that no check was kept upon it. I would ask the House what had I to do with making arrangements for putting a check on the delivery of that timber ? That was a matter of detail. The delivery of that timber was made to officers commanding regiments, and it was their duty to have taken proper pecautions on receiving it. It has been said, that there had been no bond entered into for the fulfilment of the contract. I acknowledge that ; but I say, there were no bonds needed, and for this reason — that immediately this contract was entered into, the contractor had to lay out several thousand pounds for saw-mills to carry out this oontraot. This was the beßt security in the world,
that, if the man did not complete his arrangements, he would have lost several thousands of pounds [hear, hear]. The great charge brought— the worst part of the timber business, looking at it from the present Government point of view — I shall now answer. The Premier told us, that I had plunged the country into an expense of £25,000 a few days before I left office, by a stroke of my pen. The honourable gentleman pointed to me personally. The Defence Minister had stated it at £35,000, the Colonial Treasurer, £20,000, and that £14,000 had been paid — three several and different statements. The honourable member stated that the expense attending the erection of houses in Waikato was discussed by all the Ministers, who gave it their lull concurrence. If, said he, the whole of the £35,000 had been paid out of the treasury, and the timber had been issued to the men under the conditions laid down, it would have been one of the best transactions for the country that ever happened in connection with the colonization scheme. The policy of 1863 was to get settlers on the land. Some of the men that the G-overnment obtained for the Waikato district, were not the very best men that might have been desired had we had time to get them. Many of the men were poor. It was our object that these men should become settlers on their land. The arrangement we made was that every man who built a house worth £20 on his land, was to be allowed £10 worth of timber, and that money was only to be paid when the certificate of the commanding officer was given that he had built his house, and that it was worth £20. Now, sir, if every man had claimed his £10, it would have been a good transaction for the country. Again, the Government were bound, by the conditions of settlement, to build stockades for the men, and we found that the smallest amount for these stockades would have been £45,000 ; an estimate was made of the cost of these stockades, sent to us by Colonel Mould, through the military authorities. The stockades were required for the second, third, and fourth regiments, and would have cost £45,000. Afterwards a tender was obtained for erecting block-houses, and it was found that the cost of those block-houses would be £48,000, making a difference of £3,000 in the Estimates. Before we arranged with the men about the timber, we stipulated that they were to give up their claims to block-houses, that they were to have earthen redoubts with barracks inside them, a mode of defence quite sufficient for all purposes of defence in that country. Taking the cost of these block-houses at £45,000, and taking the cost of the timber at £30,000 (supposing that quantity to be claimed, which it was not), it would leave a saving to the country of £15,000 ; but I even did better than that for the Government. I stipulated with these men through their officers, that if we gave them this £10 worth of timber that we should retain for sale some of the most valuable blocks of land out of the village sites, and these reserves would pay twice the cost of the timber when they were sold. These reserves are now in possession of the G-overn-ment. If these reserves had been sold when those honorable gentlemen came into office, every penny of the cost of that timber might have been. paid, oilt of tne proceeds. I>ixring tile Treasurer's remarks, lie referred to a business transaction with Graham and Co., relative to iron. He stated that money had been lost through our fault. When I left office, the liability of Messrs. G-raham and Co. was clear, and was never disputed. Having dealt with that personal matter, I proceed to the remarks of the Colonial Treasurer. That honourable gentleman referred to an interview which he had with the late Colonial Secretary, Mr. Fox, and he detailed what took place at that interview, and expressed to the House what he thought the result of it. He endeavoured to establish, first, that he exhibited a list of bills to Mr. Fox, and asked him if he knew that he had signed more bills than his colleagues. The inference which he wished to convey to the House was, that he (Mr. Fox) had been taken in by hiß colleagues. I need not remark on the absurdity of such an imputation. All these bills were signed by two members of the G-overnment — the Colonial Secretary, and the Premier. The Colonial Secretary was always in Auckland. The next statement made was, that there were no funds to meet these bills — that they were drawn against imaginary funds. The money which was advanced by the Bank toas not advanced upon these bills at all, and I refer to the agreement with the Bank. The terms of the arrangement between the Bank of New Zealand and the Government are these : that the Government shall appoint the manager and two other persons agents to raise a loan of £500,000 under the Loan Act of 1863, and on the strength of that loan the Bank should make an advance to the Government of £400,000, at a rate not exceeding ££,000 a month, and in London of £50,000, providing funds can be raised on debentures there. The advances made by the bank were made on the faith of these debentures. The arrangements about giving bills or drafts was entirely independent of the advances which the Bank made. The Bank of New Zealand was bound by agreement to provide for those bills, and they did accept and pay them. They were not drawn against imaginary funds. While dwelling on that point I will notice the remark made by the Native Minister, as to the danger in which the Bank of New Zealand would have been, if the sale of the first million loan had not taken place. The Bank of New Zealand can take care of itself without the assistance of that honourable gentleman. The Bank of New Zealand had debentures which it could have sold. It might have been to the sacrifice of the colony, but the Bank had its security [hear, and laughter]. That is, at all events, an answer as far as the Bank was concerned ; and the honourable gentleman applied bis remarks to me as a director of the Bank. The next point that was brought out by the Colonial Treasurer, as occurring in this interview of Mr. Fox, was that the Governor was placed in a false position by his not having received every information in finance. My answer to this is, that the late Ministry did give the Governor all the information they possessed respecting every financial transaction. We now come to the most important part of this interview — the result of it. The Colonial Treasurer stated that he proposed to let the late Colonial Secretary off, if he did not attack the present Government ; that Mr. Fox took time, and afterwards told the Treasurer if he did not throw stones, he would not throw stones. The inference he would lead us to draw from this — the imputation which is cast on the late Colonial Secretary — is, that there was something dis-1 honourable to be concealed. That is the inference he wanted us to draw [hear]. I think Mr. Fox will not be obliged to his friend for such a statement as that. But if such a proposal was made, what shall be said of a gentleman who could make such a proposal? [hear, hear]. If Mr. Fox had been weak enough— foolish enough — bad enough — to listen to it — what shall be said of a gentleman, knowing facts, which in his estimation were of the character described, who would make a bargain to conceal them ? We are told that Mr. Fox took time, and gave an answer. He did take time. He came to his colleagues, and told us what took place; but his account is quite different to that given by the Colonial Treasurer. Mr. Fox told us the Colonial Treasurer was extremely distressed ; that he did not know what to do. I say he had not the capacity to see what to do. The Colonial Treasurer's proposals to Mr. Fox were these : — We want time to get money. Pray do not raise in the House any of those questions in dispute between the late Government and his Excellency, and questions which will involve us with the Governor. I may have to go to the Governor for money ; do not, pray, get us into difficulty with the Governor. He asked my honourable friend to bury his grievances with the Governor, in order that that honourable gentleman might not be imperilled in his position with the Governor. Which of these stories is most like the truth ? [hear]. From the account of this interview given the other other night, the Colonial Treasurer drew this inference — that he had screened us at the expense of his own conscience, and in proof, he stated that he had opposed the committee moved to investigate the financial position of the country. He instanced that, as a proof of his wish to save us from disgrace. In answer to that, I say we never shrunk from inquiry. I said then, as I say now, that New Zealand is in a financial difficulty, requiring the energies of a united people, and a wise policy, to get it out of it. The Colonial Xrea-
surer then went on to remark on my strictures on the illegal expenditure of the present Government. He stated that I had said that the country I would have been in a better position but for the Wanganui campaign. In answer to this, the Government Bank book was triumphantly thrown on the table, and the Treasurer showed that on the 25th November, 1864, when they took office, the Government overdraft was £800,000, while on the 22nd August last, the overdraft was only £30,000. I will call the attention of the House to one little circumstance, that is, that they came into office on the 25th of November, and they quote the balance as £800,000 to their debit, and he omits to state that the next day the sum of £400,000 (money we had raised by sale of debentures) was credited to them — the receipt of which had been acknowledged before they came into office. The Treasurer then went on to show, that his management of the finances was the very opposite to that of the late Government — that of the Government of which I was a member was one of anticipation and overdraft. The Native Minister also stated we showed our incompetency by spending the money before we got it, and with that vehemence which is characteristic of gentlemen who come from the Green Isle, rushed on and destroyed his opponent, but found out, as many an Irishman had found out before, that he had killed the wrong man [laughter]. He destroyed the Treasurer. The Colonial Treasurer has been doing the same thing himself. The present Government have had nothing else but an overdraft. There was just one hope for the financial future of the present Government, that in answer to the appeal that has been made in England, they may have a favourable reply. If they have not, then the provincial revenues will have to go. Three eights of the Customs revenue and the land revenue too. The Colonial Treasurer then drew attention to my remarks on the illegial expenditure of the present Government. He did not attempt to deny that the expenditure was contrary to the appropriation. My argument w.as, that they had broken through the provisions of the Loan Appropriation Act, and spent money on the war which was devoted to other purposes. The only reply was that the Wanganui campaign was to be carried through ; that there must be expenditure; and that the House would not repudiate it. Thiß is a most extraordianary doctrine, and supposing the House had assented to the Wanganui war (which I deny) without a legal appropriation of the money— the Government were authorized to spend the money. Another attempted answer was, "Where was the money spent ?" I did not ask where it was spent, but when it was spent? It was expended upon the war in the Province of Auckland. This Auckland expenditure is one and the same thing, although we have heard it mentioned in half-a-dozen different ways. The Au&'land expenditure means the pay of the Waikato MiTit.a. I complain that these regiments were not long ago put on their lands. The only thing charged against the late Ministry, was the loss on the sale of the first million of debentures. I should like to ask those honourable members, if tKey condemn us for tKafc transaction, wky did they propose to do the same thing? These printed papers clearly show, that the present Government contemplated the sale of the five per cent, debentures, for what they would bring. The honourable gentlemen then rebutted statements made by the Defence Minister as to the cost of the Wanganui campaign — and dissapproved many of the assertions made by the Colonial Treasurer as to the financial position of the country, and proceeded to prove the assertion he had made that the 8 per cent, debentures were selling in the colony at 5 per cent, discount. The Colonial Treasurer had flatly contradicted that assertion ; and now that so distinct a contradiction had been given he begged to re-assert it, and in proof of his assertion stated that within the last month £5,000 of them had been sold at 5 per cent, discount, and he had himself purchased them at 94. He would give the names if the House required it. [No, no.] The honourable gentleman then made a number of statements, which he supported by documentary evidence, and proved that the assertions he had made relative to the present financial state of the colony, and the favour with which its securities were held both on the Stock Exchange and in the colonial market, were perfectly correct. He went into a defence of the late Government, showing that they had not "clung to office j" that — when it became impossible, from the interference of the Imperial Government to carry out the policy of 1863 -the late Government had resigned, had cut down the war expenditure, and had called the Assembly. He then went on to rebut the arguments adduced against separation, and noticed at some length the arguments. He replied to the statements made in Mr. Sewell's speech and continued : With regard to separation, we do not mean to give it up, we intend by every constitutional means to get it. We do represent our constituencies, as may be seen by the petition signed by 10,000 of the inhabitants of Auckland. It is the one thing on which the people of Auckland are determined, and we shall show our determination of getting it by sending fifteen separation members from Auckland. We shall hope to meet fifteen from Otago, ten from Canterbury, four from Southland. [Mr. Rhodes : How many from Wellington ?] I expect none from Wellington, but we shall have a majority in each island, and the Imperial Government will give us what we now have not, the right of governing ourselves. Should these means fail, should these honourable members get the power to remove the troops from the colony, they must be held responsible for all which will follow. I know and deprecate what will follow. The natives will attack the Europeans ; there will be murder, crime, distress. A war of races will follow. The extermination of the Maoris will be the result. When the European population fly to arms in their own defence, goaded to it by repeated attacks, the Maori will be driven back — the brown man will disappear, and then we shall have separation. On the question being put, a division was called for which resulted in the rejection of the motion by a majority of 14. Axes, 17: Messrs. Buckland, Butler, Burns, Carlefcgn, Colenso, Creighton, G. Graham, R. Graham, ilaultain,Macandrew, Munro, O'Neill, O'Rorke, Reynolds, James Williamson, John Williamson, Russell (teller). Noes, 31 : Messrs. Atkinson, Bell, Bunny,Brandon, T)ox, Curtis, Domett, FitzGerald, Fitzherbert, Gledhill, Harrison, Haughton, Jollie, Mantell, Ormond, Pharazyn, Pater son, Renall, Rhodes, Richardson, Richmond, Sewell, Stafford, Taylor, Thompson, Wayne, Weld, Wells, Wilkin, Wilson, Ward (teller). Paibs : Messrs. Henderson. Brodie, Vogel, for the resolutions ; Messrs. Miles, *Featherston, Walker, against it. Steajieb Nelson. — Tuesday last was the day for opening the tenders for the hire or purchase oi the steamer Nelson, and the Trustees of the Trust Funds met for that purpose. There was no tender for the purchase of the steamer, but there were several for the hire of her. Of these, the highest offer was from parties at Dunedin, who wanted to run the boat between that port and Hokitika ; and the next in amount was from persons resident at Hokitika. As, however, the vessel was obtained for the purpose of securing steam communication on the coast of the Provines of Nelson and Marlborough, the Trustees were of opinion that they Bhould not consider the question of rent alone, but the fulfilment likewise of the objects which led to the purchase of the vessel. There were three tenders for the hire of her by parties in Nelson. The loweßt, was an offer of a yearly rental of £1,700 ; the second, waß a rental of £2,000 a-year, with an undertaking to pay any extra charge there might be of insurances in excess of 12 per cent., and to run the boat once a month to Marlborough ; the third, was an offer of a rental of £2,400 a-year. Viewing all the circumstances, the Trustees considered the second offer the most preferable, and it was accordingly accepted. The lessees of the Nelson are therefore Messrs. Cross, Gibbons, H. Redwood?, jun., S. Robinson, Wright, and Walker. The latter will command the vessel.
Customs Revenue, shortly to amount to 250,000 Distillation 1,500 Stamps 5,000 Postal 14,000 Judicial 9,000 District Courts 1.300 Eegistration Pees .... 3,500 Fees on Crown Grants . . . 1,000 Native Land Act .... 4,000 Marine Board 2,000 Miscellaneous 1,000 Land Revenue 50,000 Provincial Revenue .... 30,000 Other rates and fees .... 20,700 Totai, . . . £393,000 The charges Auckland would have to bear, were thus stated by Mr. Williamson :— Government establishments — General £ and Provincial .... 74,000 Interest on Half-Million Loan . . 40,000 Auckland Share of Half-Million Loan of 1856 5,600 Share of Six-per-cent. Loan . . 4,000 Share of Three-Million Loan (f of aMillion) 60,000 Cost of three Regiments . . . 80,000 Total .... £263,600
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Bibliographic details
Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume XXIV, Issue XXIV, 16 September 1865, Page 1 (Supplement)
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17,405New Zealand parliament. Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume XXIV, Issue XXIV, 16 September 1865, Page 1 (Supplement)
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