Probincial Council.

Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, 15 October 1863, Page 3

Probincial Council.

Thubsday, October 8.

Present : The Speaker, tho Provincial Solicitor, Messrs. Curtis, Elliott, Kingdon, M'Kae, Uarkness, Thompson, Butler, Goodman, ftl'Mahon, Baigent, Pollock, Simmonds, Kelling, Saunderß, Lewthwaite, Burn, and Redwood. LEAVE OP ABSENCE. Leave of absence to Mr. T. Dod«on and Mr. 0. Parker was granted for the remainder of the session. DESTITUTE LABOURERS. Mr. Elliott asked the Provincial Solicitor, whether the Government is prepared to furnish the Council with a return of the sums of money expended, during the present year, in giving employment to destitute labourers,' stating upon what works euoh labourers have been employed ; and, further, to inquire whether the Government, in expectation of similar demands, ib prepared with any work of public utility, of a character to repay the outlay made upon it, on which destitute labourers might be employed ? The Provincial Solicitob was willing to give all the information in his power, but he could not state what exact amount had been expended in employing destitute labourers. The Government had employed a large number of men on public works, with the object of providing employment for the digging population while the wet weather prevented their searching for gold. They had also employed several immigrants •who had arrived by the Bard of Avon, in clearing land near the depdt. As to the future, he need but state there was a large quantity of Government work progressing, which would employ many persons during the year. Then there was the question of reclaiming a portion of the mud flat which had been suggested ; that was a question of some importance, but it was doubtful whether it should be undertaken while the price of labour was what it is. GOLD BONUS. On the motion of Mr. Elliott, seconded by Mr. Curtis, it was unanimously resolved — "That, in the event of the bonus for the discovery of a gold-field not being claimed within the time prescribed by the Superintendent's proclamation, his Honour be requested to extend the time within which claims may be made, to the Ist of June, 1864." CONDUCT OP THE WAR. Mr. Elliott said he felt that tho resolution he wasabout to propose was oneofoonsiderableimportance, and he would have preferred seeing it in other hands, but as do other member had moved in the matter, and feeling that their present session should not be permitted to terminate without the Council expressing its opinion on it, he bad brought the subject forward. It would be well, he thought, if all the provinces were to express their opinions on the present state of public affairs, and he felt assured that such opinions, would receive all proper consideration. The subject of the relations oxisting between Europeans and natives, was one which had been very often discussed, yet it wts necessary, in speaking to the resolution he intended moving, to take a glance at what those relations bad been from the time the colony was first colonized. He concurred fully with the remarks recently made by Mr. Stafford to his constituents of Nelson, wiien he said that they had shut their eyes, when civilizing New Zealand, as to the proper relations which should exist between the Europeans and the native inhabitants, and the inevitable necessity of a war arising between the races sooner or later. It had been the fashion out of the colony, and with some persons within the colony, to lay all the blame of quarrels with the aborigines on the European settlerß, but the only blame which attached to the settlers was, that they had blindly undertaken to colonize a country filled with a warlike and cruel race of savages, without the necessary force to back the undertaking. So far as he could call to mind, in a retrospective view of the proceedings of the colonists, he could distinguish no einglo attempt to Muse the natives, for, on the contrary, tho Maoris had always been treated with kindness, consideration, and extraordinary forbearance [hear, hear]. The first hostile act which had led to any fear of an encounter with the natives in the then Province of Nelson was at Massacre Bay, where, within a year of our arrival, a party of working settlers were interrupted in digging coal and burning lime, by a body of natives resident in the district. The prompt intervention of the civil authorities happily prevented the mischief spreading, but no one could read the particulars of the occurrence, as given at the time, without being struck with the danger there was of bloodshed arising at even that early period of the settlement. The dispute about the ownership of the land in the Wairau arose a few months after, and this resulted in the loss of fortythree of the most valued lives in our infant community. The steps which led to that fatal result might, legitimately, admit of a division of opinion, though, for his own part, looking at all the circumstances as they appeared at the time, he considered the magistrates were justified in proceeding as they did, but their grand fault was that they underrated the men they were opposed to. He (Mr. Elliott) was quite oertain that the leaders of that unfortunate expedition were fully convinced of the justice as well as good polioy of their proceedings, though subsequent experience may have led others who applauded the act at the time, to question the wisdom of it. Is was highly probable that the native chiefs, who signed away their land to the agents of the New Zealand Company, took a different view of the transaction to that entertained by the purchasers. The natives little knew what colonization meant, and, instead of contemplating what really followed, expected probably to see only a feir moro Europeans, and ships laden with goods arrive in their ports. The earliest settlers in the country— the hardy and reckless whalers and sealers — always managed to make the white man respected by the natives, but after the unfortunate iWairau encounter and massacre, the prestige of the Europeans was altogether lost. Troubles soon afterwards arose in the North Island. The Government flagstaff was twice out down by Heki at the Bay of Islands, the retudents of Zororareka were plundered, and the town destroyed j but thougli war followed, the natives were never made to feel that England had power to inflict adequate punishment for the outrages. The same might be said of the war that followed in the Province of Wellington, where out-settlers were murdered in their houses, and in each instance the desire of the Government to make peace was so great, that punishment for past outrages was never talked of. What wonder then that at Taranaki, when war arose between the Government and the Ngatiawas, under William King, that Waikato and Ngatiruanui should go in and share the spoils which our past conduct showed they could obtain and enjoy so cheaply ? But the time for putting an end to this state of affairs he trusted had now arrived [hear, hear], and the English Government and the English press were both awake to the necessity of crushing the Maori power at onoe and for ever [hear, hear J. For the natives themselves this would be an act of mercy, and was the only means of preventing a war of extermination taking place. The plan of colonizing the North Island by military settlers, as proposed by the Government, was excellent ; and another measure was also necessary when the proper opportunity for doing so should arrive, he meant a general disarming of the natives. He would move, " Thnt this Council, wbil* deeply deploring the hostilities which have taken pkot bttw#tn th# Qortrtaamt and tb« native*

in the North Island, cannot but express a hope that the r.ar will be prosecuted with the vigour best calculated to bring about a speedy and lasting peace, and in3ure (he establishment of the supremacy of the law throughout th* colony ; nnd that a policy which ebalJ make native, territory bear a proportion of tho cost of the war will be adopted, as the only mean a of saving the colony from severe financial embarrassments." M. Kingdon seconded the motion. Mr. Saundkiis said he could hardly permit this motion to pass without remark, though in the motion itself there was but little to object to, but n great deul 111 the honourable mover's speed). What he mott doubted was, how far it was desirable, with tlif-ir very limited knowledge — how far, in fact, (hey were in a position — to express such an opinion upon tho subject as would carry with it any weight, such weight as should always be due to a legislative body. He was in the dark, and could not make up his mind as to the course he would wish to see adopted, unless he possessed additional information. The late Prime Minister of New Zealand, when addressing a public meeting the other evening, had spoken of a New Zealand war as a necessary fatality. Such an expression ho (Mr. Saunders) was surprised to hear from such a Bource. The present feeling which existed between the natives and Europeans was, in a great measure, due to the press, which, by their continued cry oi ct cock-a-doodle-doo," had succeeded in doing more to necessitate war than anything else. The writers for the press seemed to write as though the natives were but children in their midst, and they forgot that words spoken before children oft times made a deeper impression upon their young minds than they would upon persons of mature years. Mr. Elliott had alluded to a- quarrel some years sinco, with natives at Massacre Bay, as an instance of their general hostility to the white settler. It would be in the memory of many persons how that quarrel arose j four settlers went to Massacre Bay for the purpose of working limestone and coal, but, before they so worked it, tho natives insisted on payment, and ordered the men off when they refused to comply with their demand. What wus the result P A party of men went in a boat from Nelson, armed, to coerce those natives, and they succeeded. It had always been understood that Massacre Bay was a place of refuge for defeated natives, who, therefore, possessed no large amount of arms, and whose courage might uothavebeenofthemost vigorouskind, they succumbed to the Bhow of resistance made by the white settlers. What was the consequence ? The Nelson Examiner, in reporting the circumstance, said that the natives talked yery loudly until they were shown a few ruaty old muskets, and it held their easy submission up to ridicule. The natural result was, that the natives were everywhere informed that the muskets possessed by the Europeans were useless, and .that the natives were considered to be cowards for their fear of them. Unfortunately for us the affair of the Wairau speedily followed, when a Police Magistrate, by no means qualified to lead, formed a body of some fifty men armed with those rusty muskets which the men had been told would not go off. None of the men who accompanied that sorry expedition thought they would have to fire upon an enemy ; but the natives, after having seen the taunt in the Examiner, thought they would try tho effect of the rusty muskets. There was no discipline among the Europeans, r»o confidence in those who were leading them, and the consequence was that, when they had arrived where the natives were, and found that they were making a stand, half of them walked away, while tho other half hoisted a white flag. The painful circumstances under which the latter were all killed, were too well known. It was, however, but the result of grea.t folly on tho part of those who led tho white settlers. After so terrible an outrage as the murder of all the white prisoners who had surrendered themselves became known, the Governor, a perfeot imbecile, met the natives, aud, after a most unsatisfactory interview, said he had heard both sides of the question and thought that the Europeans were in the wrong. What could be expected after so foolish a statement ? Another fact had acted most injuriously on the native mind. We had forbidden the natives to set up any authority of their own, yet we permitted murders to be committed without attempting to bring the murderers to justice; we, in fact, had permitted a few of the more turbulent to force the tribe along with them, and had not given the tribes any protection. A few evenings since, when , Mr. Stafford had addressed the electors, he (Mr. Saunders) was sorry that he had referred so lightly to the Waitara affair. Had that war been commenced by Governor Browne and the Stafford Government, for the upholding of the Treaty of Waitangi, instead ofaboutafew miserable acres of land, their cause would have been supported by the Home Government or, had they been yet a little longer forbearing, the natives would have seen that it was to their interest to remain at peace. They would, by the acquirement of property, have Been that peace was to them as invaluable as to us ; but, unhappily, certain olasaeß of politicians must have war, must resent every ill, real or imaginary, and thus had arrived the opposing feelings betweeu the natives and the Europeans. The present war he would admit wa3 inevitable, consequent on the t urbulence of certain large tribes of the natives. Now that war was again commenced, he hoped no effort would be spared to show the natives that they must submit to our authority [hear hear]. The wisest among them had, latterly, tried to keep on peaceful terms with the natives, but had been unsuccessful. Had it been otherwise, the natives would have soon seen that the mutual interests of European and Maori were closely bound together; had the natives been kept at peace a short time longer, war would have been proved to be as useless for the natives of the North Island to attempt, as it would be for the few of them now resident in the South Island ; had their little misunderstandings been permitted to arise and again settle down temporarily j until the natives had become individual holders of property, there need have been no cause for a general j war. All the expense and iniquity of blood-shedding might have been spared by a determinedly peaceful policy, if that policy had been but generally supported. A peace brought about like that would have been more permanent and more satisfactory than can be achieved by war, though carried on never so vigorously. Was it not well known that the European and other nations did not forgive those by whom they had been injured in war even in generations ? Would any of them be prepared to look forgivingly on those who had injured them or their relatives by war ? It was, therefore, he thought, extremely unlikely that a lasting peace could be procured by force and bloodshed ; besides, it was well known that those belligerents without property could severely injure those who had property. The war was, however, now entered upon, aud he hoped and believed that it would be prosecuted vigorously under their able Governor and equally able General, and tbat peace would not be made except upon secure terms, though he must still say that such a peace would not be so satisfactory a 6 if the relation of the two races had remained undisturbed by war.

Mr. Lewthwaite Baid, when honourable gentlemen spoke about the unsatisfactory relations between Europeans and natives, and about the hostile feeling of their community towards the natives, they seemed to forget or be ignorant of what really had transpired in different places, at different times, to cause such a state of feeling. He (Mr. Lewthwaite) was one of the very early settlers, and thought he knew something of what had caused the disturbances between the natives and the settlers — what had aroused the bitterly hostile determination of the Maoris. It was the scheming parsons and designing politicians. The former of these had, when New Zealand was first peopled by a white population, secured from the natives certain enormously large grants of land, and, when they found the validity of those gifts called into question, they had induced the natives to commence their land leagues out of which had sprung the king movement and subsequent war between the races [hear, hear]. Was it not an undoubted fact that the Bishop of New Zealand had induced the natives to alienate certain large blocks of land for Church purposes, and, when tho Government opposed the legality of such grants, that he had induced indirectly the raising of the king movement ? Had net certain other politicians, members of their Legislative Assembly, in direct contravention of the law, leased certain landß for runs from the natives ? In order still to hold tenure of that land for their individual interests, they, ot cootm, could tee no Moriiice tbrt would be too

:*rear, no amount of concession that could go too far for Europeans to make to the natives if it but secured ptvßont peace at at.r price— at. any ri«k— ami permitted | them still to hold* occupation o't" the land they had llui 1 * illegally acquired. Mr. Baigekt said honourable members seemed to •lepart very widely from the terms of the motion, which merely suid that it was desirable tlie war should be prosecuted with vigour. He (Mr. Baigent) had lived in New Zealand for about, twenty-two yenr^, and thought he knew something of their lelations with the natives. Mr. Lewthwaite had laid tlie chief cause of the present hostile feeling between the two races to the pardons, but he (Mr. Baigent) thought that all were to blame — all liad erred. He ihovght their steps at Massacre Bay were a mistake. The muskets certainly frightened the natives, and, when the Wnirau disturbance arose, it was presumed that they would do bo again, but it was found that those who conducted the expedition had been lamentably mistaken. Constant disturbances had arisen ever since, and now they were in euch a position that nothing could give them permanent peace unless the natives were efl'ectually and quickly conquered [hear, hear]. Sir. Jl'Rae said if the honourable mover of the resolution had kept strictly to the terms of it, all would have agreed with him. There could be no doubt that, from the foundation of the colony, the Maoris had been treated like spoiled children, by the Government on the one hand, and by bad advisers on the other. It was, however, not now doubted by any one that the Maoris had forced on the present war, it was therefore highly desirable that it should be effectively prosecuted, and not terminated until a permanent basis of peace had been secured [hear, hear], Mr. Buen thought no member of the Council would differ with the terms of Mr. Elliott's motion, yet, when he heard it argued that the whole cause of the native wars was the natives themselves, he felt bound to dissent. He was present at the Wairau and would assure honourable gentlemen that the natives, though determined, did not put forth any outrageous demand. They thought that the land had not been paid for, and they, therefore, determined that no European should set foot upon it, to permanently occupy it, until it had been paid ior. It was then they burned down the surveyors' warres, but in what manner? They took from them everything that belonged to the Europeans, every knife, fork, and spoon ; they searched the roofs for articles belonging to the survey party, and, having carefully removed them all, said "these are yours, the warres were built of that which is ours and they stand on land that is ouru," these they burned down and then ordered the surveyors to leave. The magistrate who headed the expedition, formed with the idea of punishing the natives who had thus acted, could not have been in his right senses. He took with him men who absolutely knew not how to fire a musket — many of whom had loaded them by first putting in the ball — and, as soon as the natives saw that the Europeans were giving way, they followed them up, their surrender followed, and, with it, the dreadful massacre which all had deplored. Mr. Goodman liked the motion, but not the speech. He hoped that the present war would be carried out effectually, that it would be short, sharp, and decisive. The Maoris, he felt sure, by their recent conduct, deserved all the thrashing they would get, and should be made to pay the war expenses [hear, hear] . Mr. M'Mahon said Mr. Sauuders seemed to argue that the natives had been ill-treated, but he (Mr. M'Mahon) was sure they had not. From the formation of the settlement, the natives had been looked upon and treated as pets. Magistrates would not imprison them, and those Europeans living near their pahs had frequently been made to succumb to them, as though they had' been slaves [hear hear]. It was useless longer to talk of forbearance with the natives. Flow could any one forbear beyond what had been done in the Northern Island, where a Maori would enter a white settler's house, stnke his tomahawk into a loaf of bread, and say, " this is mine," and, when remonstrated with, dared the man to go outside to him or he would use his tomahawk on him ? What had Judge Arney said of the condition of things which had arisen between the natives and Europeans ? This proposed system of even further forbearance muoh reminded him of the man who suid a person had pulled his nose, spat in his face, and kicked his behind, but, if he attempted to do much more of that, ho would certainly arouse the British Lion within him [laughter]. The Peovincaii Solicitor concurred with the motion. He thought the natives had been treated too much like spoiled children. Had they, at first, been taught their proper position, the peace of the colony could hardly have been disturbed. He thought that, in mercy to the natives, tho supremacy of the British Crown should now be, once and for all, effectively vindicated [hear hear]. The remarks made by some persons in England, who occupied very high positions, showed how ill they could realize the state of things in this colony [hear hear]. Some of those remarks were to the effeofc that we were anxious to maintain war for the benefit derived from having troops here. Had those persons been more fully aware of the actual position of the colony they would have known that the settlements in which troops had been stationed had suffered most, as instanced by Taranaki [hear hear]. He hoped that, at the conclusion of the war, the natives who had caused and taken part in it, should be made to pay its expenses. That had been done in China and other countries, and why not here? If land were taken, it would effectually stop any more wars [hear, hear]. Mr. Ellioti, in reply, said that one of Mr. Saunders' statements required notice. He could not imagine what the honourable member meant by saying that more forbearance should have been practised towards the natives, and that the war might have been avoided. It was easy for the member for Waimea-south, living in peaceful society, both of life and property, to preach forbearance to men who had for years been subjected to every species of indignity short of personal outrage. Settlers at New Plymouth and elsewhere had seen the natives make free with their property; and no redress obtainable by an appeal to the law. If Mr. Saunders had seen his horse or his cow driven away from his paddock, and could only get it restored to him by a payment of a fee to the thieves or their friends, from what he (Mr. Elliott) knew of the honourable gentleman, he would have found it difficult to Bubmit quietly to such treatment. He contended that the Government, in every war that had taken place with the natives, had practised forbearance to the utmost, and, to have gone further, would only have excited contempt. Mr. Sattndebs suggested an amendment, but, a member of the Council objecting to its being put aa it was then out of order, the original motion was put to the Council, and adopted, with but one dissentient. NEW PROVINCES ACT. Mr. Poilock moved — " That a select committee be appointed to prepare a memorial to the House of Representatives, praying that the New Provinces Act may be amended : such committee to consist of the Speaker, Messrs. Thompson, Xiugdon, Elliott, and the mover." He said, on this subject, he need make no very lengthened remarks. The eviieffectsof that Act had for some time been apparent. He thought that, instead oi promoting, it destroyed the good which might be derivable from local self government under a more inexpensive system [hear, hear]. Mr. M'Mahon seconded the motion. After a short discussion, the motion was carried.