Provincial Council Thursday, July 30.

Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume XXII, 8 August 1863, Page 3

Provincial Council Thursday, July 30.

Present: The Speaker, the Provincial Solicitor, Dr. Monro, Mesßrs. Burn, Lewthwaite, M'Rae, Hnrkness, Thompson, Saunders, Goodman, Simmonds, Elliott, Parker, Baigent, Dodson, Curtis, Kingdon, Pollock, and Butler.

The minutes of the previous sitting were read and confirmed.

The Peovinciai Solicitob asked Mr. Baigent whether the words, which had been on a former evening taken down by the* clerk, were intended to apply to Mr. Stunders or to Mr. Greenfield ?

Mr. Baigent said Mr. Saunders uttered certain words, the truth of which he (Mr. Baigent) had denied, and Mr. Saunders then said that his informant was Mr. Greenfield.

The Provincial Solicitor : Mr. Greenfield has given to me a statement of what occurred while giving his evidence. He thinks it unfair that anything he said should be handled as it Im9 been in this Council without his having an opportunity to reply. The statement is as follows :— »

" The whole of my evidence was not taken down. If I made a statement that appeared to be against the Government", Mr. Baigent said to the clerk ' put that down,' but no one appeared to me to watch the proceedings on the part of the Government ; at any rate, when a favourable or explanatory answer was given, no one said ' put that down.' I therefore took it for granted that it waß not put down, and, as the whole of the evidence was not read to me, I had no means of telling whether such statement had been taken down or not.

" I have since seen the evidence as recorded, and I find that statements made by me in explanation of answers given were not taken down. I append notes of my evidence as I gave it, which, if compared with the evidence recorded by the committee, will, I think, show that I had just cause of complaint. I have shown my notes to Mr. Lane, and he will, if necessary, prove their correctness. " In making the above remarks, I did not intend to cast any slur on the proceedings of the committee, but I considered that, when committees are appointed to investigate charges made against the Government, government officers, or any other person, some one should watch the proceedings on their behalf.

Mr. Habkness being about to address the Council,

The Spbakee said a discussion would be irregular. There was no motion before the Council. He would, however, do as it wished ; but, if no motion was permitted to be made, he would decide that no discussion should take place.

Mr. Habkness moved that Standing Order 29 be suspended, in order that the matter be discussed.

Mr. Lewthwaite seconded the motion, which was negatived.

GENERAL CONTINGENCIES.

Mr. Parkeb moved, " That, in the opinion of this Gounoil, a detailed account should be kept by the Auditor (and produced to this Council on its next sessional meeting) of the expenditure of the Bum of £3,000, voted by this Council under the heading ' General Contingencies.' " He said he did not do so under any idea that the money would be misspent by the Government. But, while not doubting their honesty, he thought that for so large a sum as £3,000, there should be presented the details of its expenditure. Under their present system, no detailed accounts were presented, and they had no means of ascertaining how these particular items were expended. Mr. Dodson seconded the motion. Mrt Cubtis said it was the duty of the Government to keep detailpd accounts. When he was one of the public auditor?, it had been recommended that proper account books should be kept by Government, and that they should not simply keep little slips of paper to present to their Auditors. The Provincial Solicitor said the Provincal Auditor kept account books which contained every item paid away by Government. If the Council required an account of the items under which the sum for General Contingencies was expended last year, it should be produced. After some further disoussion the motion was adopted. POST OFFICE. On the motion of Dr. Monho, seconded by Mr. Pollock, it was unanimously resolved " That open spaces in the City of Nelson are of the greatest importance to the inhabitants, both on sanitary grounds and for purposes of ornament and recreation ; and this Council desires therefore to record its deliberate opinion that it is most unadvisable that the open ground of Trafalgar-square Bhould be further encroached upon by any buildings, whether of a public or private nature." MESSAGES. The following messages were received from his Honour the Superintendent : — No. 24, proposing an amendment in the Cattle Slaughtering Act, to the effect that, in section 2, the words " nearest constable, or the oonstable of the district wherein he commonly resides," be struck out, and the words "constable residing nearest to the place where such animal shall have been killed," inserted. No. 25, proposing that section 30 of the Scab Act be struck out, and that the following clauses be added after clause 35, viz., " This Act shall come into operation on and after the Ist day of January, 1864." No. 26, proposing certain alterations in the Appropriation Bill. The Council having resolved itself into committee for the purpose of considering these messages, they were each adopted, with the exception of that proposing that section 30 of the Scab Act be struck out. The Council adjourned until Friday, at eleven o'clock. Fbiday, August 7. The Council met at eleven o'clock, with the Speaker in the chair. PUBLIC WORKS INQUIRY COMMITTEE. Mr. Habkness moved, " That the statement read by the Provincial Solicitor from Mr. Greenfield, respecting the evidence given before a select committee appointed to inquire into the system of -expending money on roads leadiug to the West Coast, be taken into consideration in committee." Motion agreed to. The Dounoil then went into committee, Mr. M'Rae in the chair. Mr. Habknbss moved, •" That, in the opinion of this Council, the proceedings of the Public Works Inquiry Committee have been characterised by thorough fairness, and that the conduct of its chairman was unimpeachable." Mr. Bxtbn thought that Mr. Greenfield had just ground of complaint at the manner in which his evidence had been taken by the select committee. The Standing Orders required that all evidence taken by a select committee should ba signed by the person who gave it, and this had not been done by Mr. Greenfield, that gentlemen never having been BBked to sign his evidence.

Mr. Baigbnt said his object in asking for the committee was in order to ascertain whether there was any truth in rumours that were abroad regarding the wasteful expenditure of money on public works. His desire was not to censure the Government, but to arrive at facts. Unfortunately, from the difficulty of getting evidence, those who could give it being mostly away from town, the information they gathered was more limited than he could have wished. The report which he had drawn up was seen and approved of by six out of eight members of the committee, including all the gentlemen who attended the sittings and heard the evidence taken, and these gentlemen could verify that the evidence was taken and recorded fairly. Mr. Dodson regretted that the subject should not have been allowed to rest as it stood when the Council refused to adopt the committee's report.

The Pbovincial Solicitob saw nothing in Mr. Greenfield's letter that could be constructed into an attack on the select committee. Mr. Greenfield con. sidered, however, that he had been charged with telling a falsehood, and he was justified in vindicating his character.

Mr. Cuktib pointed out that Mr. Greenfield, in his letter, did not complain thai hi* evidence bad not

been taken down, but that his explanatory statements were not recorded. Tho Speakeb concurred in the terms of the motion. * Mr. Saundees opposed the motion, and condemned the conduct of the chairman of the committee. Mr. Greenfield, in his letter, said no more than Mr. Pollock and Mr. Parker, two members of the Council, had allowed to be true — that all Mr. Greenfield's evidence had not been taken down.

Mr. Kingdon said the difference appeared to him to have arisen out of a general misunderstanding. He hoped some one, on tho part of Mr. Greenfield, would apply to withdraw any imputation he had made against any member of the select committee, and that Mr. Baigent would then express a regret at having spoken the words he had made use of on Friday last.

Mr. Pollock regarded the whole business as a mistake. It was believed by many persons that the desire of the Council was to censure the Government, which was quite untrue. Many rumours of an unfavourable character were abroad out of doors as to the manner in which tha Government carried on the making of roads in the country, but these statements were not supported by the evidence taken by the committee. As a member of the select committee, he would say that he thought its proceedings had been conducted fairly. Mr. Greenfield complained that all his evidence had not been taken down, but then, What was evidence ? Mr. Greenfield's replies and explanations were often of such character that they could not be regarded as evidence, and were accordingly omitted. Mr. KINGDON then proposed an addition to the motion, which was adopted by Mr. Habkness, and it then passed as follows :—: —

" That, in the opinion of this committee, tha proceedings of the Public Works Enquiry Committee have been characterized by thorough fairness, (he conduct of its chairman was unimpeachable, and, further, that nothing in the report presented by the select committee, reflected either on the character of Mr. Greenfield, or of any member of the Government." Mr. Pabkeb expressed a hope that an apology would be made by Mr. Baigent for uttering the words he made use of on Friday last. Mr. Baigent expressed his regret accordingly. Mr. Elliott thought some apology was also due from Mr. Saunders to Mr. Baigent, for having imputed to him perversion of the evidence taken by the committee, of which Mr. Baigent was chairman. Mr. SaundeeB gave a qualified apology. VOTE OF THANKS TO SECRETARY OF EXHIBITION COMMISSIONERS. On the motion of Mr. Dodson, seconded by Mr. Elliott, the standing orders were suspended in order to move the following motion, which was carried unanimously : — " That the exertions of the Secretary of the Exhibition Commissioners for the province of Nelson, are entitled to the grateful recognition of this Council,' and that the Speaker do couvey the thanks of this Council to Mr. J. L. Bailey accordingly." CLOSE OF THE SESSION. Mr. Elliott said he understood that all the business of the session was now closed, and that the Council would be adjourned in the afternoon, but there were two or three subjects he wished for information upon, if his iriend the Provincial Solicitor was in a position to give it. He wished first to learn what the Government proposed doing about a Loan Bill for the Waterworks ? He knew they were very anxious to have submitted such a bill to the Council, but they had not yet got the Governor's permission to raise such a loan. Then, everyone appeared to believe that great numbers of persons would be drawn here in the spring to work our gold-fields, but the session had been suffered to terminate without the Executive making the slightest provision for an event which every person believed would quickly take place. With such an accession of people, prompt arrangements would have to be made to organise an efficient police, appoint magistrates, and other functionaries required to maintain order, and insure the safety of the inhabitants of the province, and he should, therefore, wish to hear what the Government proposed doing, should such a state of things suddenly arise. They might have obtained a considerable vote of money to have enabled them to deal with the state of affairs which must arise on the breaking out of a large gold-field, but they had not done so. The next subject he would remark upon, was the danger that existed of the Nmallpox being introduced here on an eirly day. The accounts from England spoke of* the ravages of that most dreadful scourge of a disease at home, and, if introduced into our colony, it would probably travel through all its provinces, as the intercourse by steam was bo frequent. It was said that a vessel had already arrived at Otago, on board of which there had been cases of smallpox, so that the danger of the disease reaching us was by no means remote. He wished to call the attention of the Government to these facts, and to urge it to take such measures as would be best calculated to render the disease harmless, should it reach our shores.

The Pbovinoial Solicitob, in reply, said thai the Superintendent contemplated the necessity of holding another session of the Council at no distant period, as it was necessary that he should do so to get passed his proposed amende*! Land Regulations, in ordef that they might go before the General Assembly when it should next meet.

The Counoil then adjourned till half-past two o'clock, when it again assembled, and the Superintendent read the following address :—: — "Mb. Speaker, and Gentlemen ob the Pbotinciai Council —

"In closing the present session, I desire to tender you my thanks for the assiduity with whioh you have attended to the many important measures that have been brought under your notice, and whioh I feel assured you will unite with me in hoping may, when brought into operation, prove beneficial to the province at large.

" Of the Ordinances passed by you during this session, I have, on behalf of his Excellency the Governor, given my assent to the following, viz. : — "Waterworks Act, " Country Roads Amendment Act, " Fencing Act, "Scab Aot, " Dog Nuisance Acf , "Education Act, " Cattle Slaughtering Act, ■* "Appropriation Aot. " And I have reserved, for the signification of the Governor's pleasure thereon — " Marine Board Act, - " Buller Reserve Administration Act, "Coal-field Leases (Mokihinui) Act, " Cemetery Act. " I shall have much pleasure in giving effect to the various resolutions passed by you whenever it may be practicable for me to do so. In order, however, to prevent disappointment to those portions of the community to which some of them more particularly refer, it is desirable that it should bo borne in mind that it will be necessary to their accomplishment that the revenue for the current year should be greatly in excess of my estimate as submitted to you. " Among the most important of the resolutions alluded to is that referring to a survey of the country between the city and the south-western portions of the province. It appears to me that this will be most effectually and economically done when the explorations which have been in progress for a considerable time are completed and trial lines cut in those parts which may be considered most eligible for the purposes of a railway, as such lines will also be most suitable for bridle-roads should the construction of a railway from any cause be found impracticable. " It is satisfactory to me to find that the important subject of the best mode of opening for settlement the south-western portion of the province has received a considerable amount of your attention during the present session. The evidence that has been taken, together with the temperate yet earnest manner in which the propriety of opening it by means of a railway has been discussed, will I feel assured satisfy your respective constituents as it has done me, of your anxious desire to advance the permanent welfare of the Province.

" The nearly equal division of opinion on this important subject naturally plaoef me ia » pwiticn

of some difficulty as to the course I ought to pursue in reference to it.

" I cannot divest myself entirely of the impression that the eftvot of the conclusion arrived at is weakened by the want of further evidence as to the nature of the country through which either a road or railway ought to be made. It may be that the best line has not yet been discovered, and there appears aiso to be a lark of data, the want of which will doubtless weigh with his Excellency's Government in arriving at a decision on the proposed undertaking. Nor must it be forgotten that, co far as our present knowledgo extends, nearly, if not the whole land revenue of the province will be required to pay the interest and sinking fund on the loan proposed to be raised for the construction of the works, thereby leaving every other portion of the province without aid from the revenue for the public works necessary for their development and prosperity. These are matters which have, doubtless, received some portion of your attention, and the gravity of which has contributed much to that near equality of opinion which appears to have resulted from the discussion of the subject.

" I shall, with as little delay as possible, submit ycur views on the matter to the General Government, who will, doubtless, give them their due consideration, and act as they may consider best for the public welfare.

" I now prorogue this Council, and it stands prorogued accordingly."