Provincial Council.

Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume XV, Issue 1, 2 April 1856, Page 2

Provincial Council.

[Continued from first page.]

The committee divided on the amendment, Ayes, 7. Noes, 11. I Mr. Elliott Mr. Wastney Dr. Monro Mr. Barnicoat Dr. Renwick Mr. Saundera Mr. John Ward Mr. Baigent Mr. Poynter Mr. Robinson The Provincial Solicitor Mr. Butler Mr. Muller. Mr. Jacka Mr. Saxton Mr. Cautley Mr. Joseph Ward Mr. Parker Amendment lost. ! Mr. Wastney moved an amendment, " providing the road should commence at the corner of Nile-street West and Waimea-street." j After some discussion, in which Messrs. Saunders, Renwick, Parker, Wastney, Cautley, and the Provincial Solicitor took part, Tbe committee dividod : Ayes, 9. Noes, 9. Mr. Elliott Mr. Barnicoat Mr. Wastnoy Mr. Baigent v Dr. Monro Mr. Robinson J}r. Renwick Mr. Butler M\ John "Ward Mr. Jacka Mr. Saunders Mr. Saxlon Mr. "Poynter Mr. Cautley The Pspvincial Solicitor Mr. Joseph Ward Mr. Muller. Mr. Parker. The numbers being equal, the chairman gave his vote in favour of the amendment. The paragraph, as amended, was then agreed to. The three frl^wing paragraphs were agreed to. Paragraph (•>) was amended, on the motion of Mr. Jacka, so as to read: — "The road from the b'idge at White's corner to the Mill, and from, thence to the Green Tree at the Riwaka r ; ver." Mr. Joseph Ward moved that paragraph (6) be amended, so as to read : — " The road from the ferry on t' c Wairau river to the plain, and thence p sing up the plain and valley to the Top Ho .se." Mr^ Cautley supported and Mr. Barnicoat opposed the amendment. The committee divided. , Ayes, 9. Noes, 9. Mr. JiUiott Mr. Wastney Dr. J/lonro Mr. John Ward Dr. ikenwick Mr. Barnicoat MrySaxton Mr. Saundcrs Mr 1 Cautley Mr. Baigent Mr, Joseph Ward Mr. Robinson Mv Poynter Mr. Butler The Provincial Solicitor Mr. Jacka. 'W:. Muller. Mr. Parker. The numbers being equal, the chairman voted in favour of the amendment. The three next paragraphs were agreed to. The paragraph commencing " These roads " having been read, Mr. Saunders moved, as an amendment, That the words "in aid of rating " be struck Agreed to., yi.p^jgcß**^^ ■■ ~~ On the mdfion of the Provincial Solicitor, all the words after " adopt " were struck o^t. , The paragraph was then agreed to. / Paragraph 2 having been read, i Mr- Barnicoat, in moving an amendment to the effect that the sum voted by the Council for by-roads should be divided among /the different districts in proportion to the rates (raised in each under the Country Roads Bill, said that, having been on the committee whose' report was now under consideration, he was enabled to say that tbtf'recommendation in the report to make population the basis on which the vote of the Council should be distributed among the various districts was not in accordance with the opinion of a majority of such committee, but merely that of a majority of those who happened to be present when the report was drawn up ; and he had no doubt that a majority of the Council would show themselves also in favour of the principle of the amendment. The Council, in granting the public money, had a perfect right to impose its own conditions, and was bound to do so in the way it believed to be most beneficial to the community. On this ground, he maintained that, in the present case, the Council should so dispose of its vote as to encourage self-taxation for the maintaining of roads. The population principle afforded no guarantee against a district taking a share of public money for this purpose without adding any of its own. This course some honourable members had declared, as far their influence went, their intention of pursuing. Such a spirit he thought it most undesirable to foster, and that it would be unwise in the Council not to discourage the rendering its laws a nullity. The successful operation of the Country Roads Bill might hinge much on the resolution now adopted by the Council. We have no other present means of imposing a penalty on a district that neglects its roads. In England the remedy lies in the indictment of a parish guilty "of such neglect: for however incredible it might appear, we know from experience that districts or parishes will sometimes prefer the inconvenience of bad roads to the cost of good. He had been informed that the principle now contended for had been found to work admirably in South Australia, where the population of a district was first taken as a guide in the subdivision of the grant for roads. What we may fairly dread here was found to result there. Some of the districts quietly took their share of the public money, but did nothing towards rating themselves : and it was not till the adoption of the principle of affording aid to districts in proportion to the amount of rates raised within them, that things worked efficiently and satisfactorily. The principle of Government affording aid to districts, in proportion to local contributions, had been long in operation here. There was but one objection to the plan (which was now altogether met by the equitable provisions of the Country Roads Bill), that some parties would not contribute at all, and others not in proportion to their in- \ terest. Some members had asserted that the cost of roads should fall altogether on the Provincial revenue. It was evident, however, that in the present condition of the public purse, some other means must be resorted to, and that the Government can now do no more than assist; and the question for the Council to decide is, on what principle such assistance should be rendered : he thought in proportion to the necessities and exigencies of each locality, and the best measure of these was the willingness with which the inhabitants came

forward to tax themselves to supply those necessities. Government should help them only who help themselves ; and he repeated that self-imposed taxation afforded the best conceivable measure both of necessities and of deserts.

Mr. Saunders said that the honourable gentleman who had last spoken was in the habit of speaking ironically at times, and he must have been doing so when he characterized as a righteous, just, and beneficial measure '. that horrible piece of jobbery which was now called the Country Roads; Act. And now, by the system proposed by Mr. Barnicoat's amendment, they would be endeavouring to effect the greatest possible good to the smallest possible number. Those districts in which the most valuable property was situated would have the largest proportion of the money to be expended upon roads ; but the poor devils who possessed small properties in less wealthy districts must be content with a very small pro- ! portion of the money. He (Mr. Saunders) 1 felt sure that although the Council had passed the Country Roads Bill, it would not sanction such a principle as that proposed by the amendment, for districts would then be compelled to tax themselves in order to get a share of public money ; and he might observe that taxes were higher here than in almost any other part of the world. Mr. Robinson opposed the amendment, which he thought must have been proposed in lan ironical fit, and was only adding insult to injury. After the petitions which had been sent to the Council on the subject, and which had been so little attended to, it was an insult to attempt to do more than had been already done by the Country Roads Bill. He felt very strongly on the subject of the Country Roads Bill, and could not give it the slightest encouragement in any shape ; and if it was possible legally and constitutionally to evade the bill, he believed that the inhabitants of Massacre Bay would to a man do so. It should also be remembered that in new districts large sales of land were taking placs ; yet by the proposed amendment the inhabitants of such districts would be deprived of any benefit from the proceeds of such sales. Mr. Parker said that he should vote for the paragraph as it stood. It appeared to be the intention of some honourable members to thrust the Roads Bill down the throats of the remainder, but the majority of the country members were opposed to the bill, and of the inhabitants in the country he believed that two out of three were opposed to it, and in some districts even ninety-nine persons out of a hundred disapproved of the measure, which had beeen adopted in spite of numerous memorials against it. It was not fair now to say to the people, Unless you willingly tax yourselves, you shall have no share in the distribution of the public money. If such a measure was carried into effect, it might be calculated that the days of the Government were numbered [hear, hear]. Mr. Saxton opposed the amendment, and was remarking upon the manner in which his speeches had been reported; when he was called to order by the chairman. After some further discussion, in which Messrs. Saunders, Joseph Ward, Barnicoat, Robinson, and John Ward took part, The committee divided : — Ayes, 9. Noes, 9. Mr. Elliott Mr. John "Ward Mr. Wastney Mr. Saunders Dr. Monro Mr. Baigent Dr. Ren wick Mr. Eobinson Mr. Barnicoat Mr. Butler Mr. Cautley Mr. Jacka Mr. Poynter Mr. Saiton The Provincial Solicitor Mr. Joseph Ward Mr. Muller. Mr. Parker. The numbers being equal, the chairman gave his vote against the amendment. The Provincial Solicitor moved, as an amendment, That the paragraph be omitted altogether. He added that if the Council would not agree to divide the money according to the rate raised in each district, population was not a fair basis upon which to make the division. The committee divided : — Ayes, 12. Noes, 6. Mr. Elliott. Mr. Saundera Mr. Wastney Mr. Baigent Dr. Monro Mr. Butler Dr. Renwick Mr. Jacka Mr. John Ward Mr. Joseph Ward Mr. Barnicoat Mr. Parker. Mr. Robinson Mr. Saiton Mr. Cautley Mr. Poynter The Provincial Solicitor Mr. Muller. Amendment agreed to. Paragraph 3 read and agreed to. On the motion of the Provincial Solicitor, the last paragraph of the report was struck out. The Council then resumed, and the chairman reported the Report as amended. Ordered to lie on the table. PUBLIC POUND AT WAKAPUAKA. Mr. Wastney moved, pursuant to notice, That his Honor the Superintendent be requested to place on the Estimates the sum of £40, for the purpose of erecting a public pound in the district of Wakapuaka. Mr. John Ward seconded the motion.

Mr. Muller opposed the motion, not because a pound at Wakapuaka was unnnecessary, but because a sufficient sum had been put upon the Estimates, under the Lead of Pounds, and he felt sure that the Superintendent would have no objection to cause a pound to be erected in the district, now it was known to require one. Motion withdrawn. PUBLIC LANDS BILL,

The Provincial Solicitor moved, That Standing Order, No. 37, be suspended, for the purpose of allowing the Public Lands Bill to be read a second time.

Motion put and agreed to. The Provicial, Solici-ior then moved the second reading of the Public Lands Bill, and observed that it was a bill in which no great principle was involved, or he should not have so hurried it through its various stages. The object of the bill was to carry out the resolution recently agreed to by the Council, respecting the exchange of the hospital site with Mr. Seymour ; and also to give power to the Superintendent to grant leases for twentyone years of any portions of land situated below high-water mark. The land in question below high-wate r mark had been granted by

his Excellency the Governor to his Honor the Superintendent for the public service of the province, but it required an act of the Council to enable the Superintendent to lease the land for any longer period than three years. He might state that an application had already been received from Messrs. Nicholson and Ridings for the lease of a portion of the land, in order to make a wharf to connect the hulk Admiral Napier with the shore, which would be a great public convenience, as there was a depth of sixteen feet at low-water on the outside of the hulk.

The motion was agreed to, and the bill read a second time.

On the motion of the Provincial Solicitor, the Council resolved itself into com* mittee on the bill; Mr. John Ward in the chair.

The various clauses having been read and agreed to, The Council then resumed, and the chairman reported the bill without amendments. NEW ZEALAND FLAX. Mr. Hough moved that his Honor the Superintendent be requested to place upon the Estimates the sum of as a bonus for the discovery of any new and effective method of preparing the New Zealand flax, so as to create, if possible, an immediate export trade from this province. No doubt honourable members were aware that if the great and insurmountable difficulty of effectually preparing the New Zealand flax were overcome, it would be a source of vast benefit and wealth to the colony. The farmers might then cultivate flax as they now cultivated grain, and with as much profit, j and it would employ a great amount of both capital and labour. Such being the case it was the duty of Government to foster and encourage enterprising individuals, who might be endeavouring to find out the great secret, by offering a moderate reward for the discovery. Mr. Robinson seconded the motion.

The Provincial Solicitor did not rise to oppose the motion, but thought £50 would do but little to induce persons to try experiments for a discovery which would of itself bring a sufficient reward to the person who found out the process. Mr. Saunders opposed the motion, as they had not a 650 to throw away ; and if there was that amount of money to spare, it had better be employed in opening out a channel to the central agricultural district. Besides, he believed that at the present high rate of wages the flax could not be worked profitably, and such employment was not required while the present scarcity of labour continued. Mr. Wastney concurred with Mr. Saunders, and said that he had had some experience in the matter. The only thing necessary profitably to prepare the flax ready for the English market was a sufficient supply of labour. Motion put and negatived without a division. The Council then adjourned. Friday, March 28, 1856. The Council met at five o'clock, the Speaker in the chair. Absent, Messrs. Bush, Lee, and Muller. LIMITATION OF PERSONS IN THE EMPLOY OF THE EXECUTIVE. Dr. Monro brought up the report of the Select Committee on limiting in the Provincial Council the number of persons in the employ of the Executive. Report read and ordered to be printed. PETITION OP MR. MACKAY AND OTHERS. On the motion of Dr. Monro (in the absence of Dr. Renwick), the Report of the Select Committee on the petition of Messrs. Mackay, Sclanders, Nicholson, Clouston, and Lawrence, was read by the Clerk, as follows : — The Select Committee appointed to take into consideration the petition of Messrs. Mackay, Sclanders, Nicholson, Clouston, and Lawrence, and to examine such evidence as these gentlemen may have to submit to the Council, having met and examined the documents and correspondence relating to the proceedings of the Commission on the Zingari steamer, and having in especial referred to the original letter of instructions to the Commissioners, bearing date the 9th of February, 1855, and to the fact that the amount claimed by the Committee was voted by the Provincial Council last session, are of opinion that there is no sufficient reason for withholding any longer from the members of the Commission the sum claimed by them (£SB). Thomas Renwick, Chairman. Council Chamber, March 27, 1856. Dr. Monro moved that the report be adopted. The Provincial Solicitor spoke against the report, and contended that the Government was quite justified in withholding from the gentlemen who sat as a commission to investigate the cause of accident to the Zingari steamer when she sunk in the harbour, seeing that they had refused to furnish the Government with a copy of the evidence taken by them, although they had charged for the services of the person whom they employed to take that evidence. Mr. Saunders, Dr. Renwick, and Mr. Saxton, spoke in favour of the report, and Mr. Cautley, and Mr. Poynter, against it. Mr. Robinson did not consider that reports of Select Committees should be received too implicitly. Before he could agree to the report, he should wish for an opportunity to peruse the papers on which the report was founded ; and he would move as an amendment, that the consideration of the report be postponed until Tuesday next. Seconded by Mr. Jacka. The Council divided, when there appeared Ayes, 10. Noes, 8. Mr. Wastney Dr. Monro Mr. Wells Dr. Renwick Mr. John Ward Mr. Barnicoat Mr. Baigent Mr. Saunderi Mr. Robinson Mr. Butler Mr. Elliott Mr. Cautley Mr. Jacka Mr. Hough Mr. Parker Mr. Saxton. Mr. Poynter The Provincial Solicitor. The motion for a postponement was therefore carried. APPROPRIATION BILL.

On the motion of Mr. Poynter, the Council resolved itself into a committee on the Estimates ; Mr. Barnicoat in the chair. • Mr. Poynter moved the adoption of the items in the supplementary estimates. Dr. Monro suggested that the expenditure on the Provincial Secretary's department last year having been declared illegal by a vote of the_ Council, the amount had better be added to the supplementary estimates, in order that the expenditure might be legalized.

Mr. Parker denied the power of the Council to amend the estimates by adding to them an item not recommended by the Superintendent. Mr. Poynteb denied the illegality of the payments made to the Provincial Secretary's department since the money had been voted in the estimates, nor had the Council declared that any illegality had been committed. Mr. Saunders said that although the amendment he had proposed to Dr. Monro's motion did not decidedly charge the Government with illegally constituting a Provincial Secretary's department, yet the manner in which that amendment was worded ought to have made no difference to the Government in the way in which the vote of the Council should be viewed. Mr. Cautley contended that when the Secretary's Bill was disallowed by the Superintendent, the office for which the money was voted was abolished. Dr. Monro moved ttat th.c supplementary estimates be increased by the amount paid for the Provincial Secretary's department last year. Mr. Jacka thought this wouid^beasking the Council to vote th&up&Sum twice over. He contended for- thTtegality of the appointment of th>-Frovincial Secretary. M*t-"Saxton spoke against the necessity of aojfProvincial Secretary's department, and of the treatment he received from the Nelson Examiner by his speeches being reported. Mr. Elliott rose to order. The motion was put and carried. The Council resumed, and the chaim reported the Bill with amendments. CATTLE TRESPASS COMMITTEE. Mr. Jacka brought up the report of tl Select Committee on the Cattle Trespass an Impounding Ordinances. Report read, and ordered to lie on tht table. *v , Council adjourned till Tuesday, April 1 .