LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume VIII, Issue 383, 7 July 1849, Page 75

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Thursday, May 31. Present — All the members, with the exception of Mr. F. D. Bell. THE ESTIMATES. The Council resumed the consideration of the Estimates. The Governor said that, before putting the amendment, he would explain, for the information of those members who were not present at the last sitting, the nature Of the proposition before the Council. An amendment had been proposed to expunge from the Estimates the items for Native Presents, the Entertainment of Native Chiefs, and Charitable Aid, which was lost; and another amendment was then proposed, to tbe effect that the two first items should be reduced to £150. He had considered it his duty to request one of the official members to move that the committee should adjourn, in order that the question might be submitted to a full Council. It had been stated by an hon. member at the last meeting, that these items should form a charge on the Parliamentary Grant, but he could not admit that such was the case ; it was uncertain howlong'the Parliamentary Grant would be continued, and as the items were very necessary, they would then have to be provided out of the General Revenue. One of the hon. members for Nelson had observed, that he thought the natives were rapidly improving in civilization, and that it was unnecessary to give them baubles, which, after a three days' wonder, would be thrown away and thought no more of. He quite agreed with the hon. member, that the natives were making rapid improvement, but that referred more especially to the immediate neigh- | bourhood of the settlements. Those residing in the more distant parts, and the old chiefs, were still, to tome extent, like children, and ought to be treated as such. An hon. member had stated that the Council were favourable to the natives, and he believed that such was the case. It had been observed that many of the items in the Estimates were exclusively for the benefit of the natives, and the Resident Magistrate at Waikanae, had been considered unnecessary on account of the few Europeans in the district. Disputes, however, were apt to arise between the Europeans and the natives, which might lead to serious consequences. A singular instance had occurred since the Council last met. Ranghiaiata, who had recently come to Porirua, had token a horse belonging to a white man ; the white man was married to a native woman, a relation of Ranghiaiata, and that chief might suppose that he had a right to take the animal, according to native custom. When the owner applied for the horse, he was severely beaten. The Resident Magistrate in question, happened to be at Porirua | at the time, and he immediately demanded that : the horse should be given up. The next morning I the horse was returned, together with £5 as comi pensation for beating the owner. Dr. Monro admitted the necessity of being on friendly terms with the natives, and he was most anxious that the Council should do all in their power to maintain the present amicable relations. The only thing in which he differed in opinion with his Excellency was, as to the means. The Council, or at least a great majority of them, thought this was to be done by the means already provided, such as Medical Attendance, laying out their villages, &c. An Inspector was appointed at Waikauae principally on their account, and it had been incidentally stated, that the committee had determined to recommend that a sum of £530 should be set apart for the education of the natives. This, he conceived, was a sufficient guarantee for the continuance of the harmony existing between the two races. His Excellency seemed to attach great importance to giving a few presents to the chiefs, and that if the Council were not prepared to sanction such gifts, he conceived that in England it would be urged as a strong argument against granting Representative Institutions. It appeared that the Council and the Government had both the same object in view; the difference was, as to the mode of attaining it ; and with all deference to his Excellency's opinion, he could not think that making a few presents was of such importance as his Excellency seemed to consider. He thought it should be in the power of the Government to entertain the chiefs who might come to Wellington ; but he knew a good deal of the habits of the natives, and he knew that one of their habits was that of begging, and when they had presents given them, they were apt to go away and ridicule the donor. He considered indis- | criminate charity, and indiscriminate presents, to be a bad practice, and most of the natives were able to provide for themselves such articles as steel flour-mills. For these reasons, he thought half the sum would suffice for the entertainment of chiefs, and to encourage friendly feelings, and he could not overlook the fact, that the Revenue was less than the Expenditure, and the balance made up out of the Parliamentary Grant ; and he could I not vote for a larger sum than he considered j necessary to attain the objects his Excellency I proposed. Mr. Greenwood said that be had on the last occasion expressed his intention to vote for the item as it stood, in deference to the opinion of the Government, as he did not pretend to have such knowledge of the natives as the Government must have. But with reference to the statement relative to Ranghiaiata, he doubted much whether the explanation his Excellency had given would satisfy the Council — that because an outrage had been prevented by the Resident Magistrate, that therefore a Resident Magistrate should be ap- ; pointed wherever an outrage was likely to happen. There was only two along the wh«le line of coast, and one happened to be on the spot in the present instance, but if he had not been there, the sufferer would have had to make his complaint to the nearest Resident Magistrate. It appeared to him that to give a Resident Magistrate a full salary, when only part of his time was employed, was not necessary, and he would suggest that some of the present magistrates might be appointed Resident Magistrates, with salaries from £200 down to £150, according to the amount of duties to be performed ; and while in deference to the strong statements his Excellency had made, he would agree to the items under consideration, he could not admit that so many Resident.Magistrates were required.

Mr. Moore wished especially to disclaim the slightest intention of interfering with the Government in the fair distribution of patronage to the natives, but he considered, in the ordinary course, the Government possessed patronage to a very large extent. It appeared, by a paper before him, that a very considerable amount of the expense attending a purchase of land, was expended in presents; and when they saw the deficient revenue, and that of the items under consideration the definite object of only £185, was stated, he thought they ought to exercise some discretion in enlarging the amount which was already, to a certain extent, at the disposal of the Government. He was far from wishing to prevent the Government from entertaining native visitors who might arrive : he considered it very necessary to do so ; but at the same time he thought it was less necesrary now than formerly, and, as he had before observed, the more they gave the more they might give, and his acquaintance with the character of the natives would lead him, in private matters, to act on the same principles he was now recommending to the Council. The amendment, that the two first items under the head of Miscellaneous be reduced to £150, was then put and carried. The sum of £125 for horses fortbe Police, was expunged, and the sum of £525 for Miscellaneous, was then passed. Dr. Monro rose to present a protest against the item under the head of Ecclesiastical, being £200 for a Colonial Chaplain. In doing so, he expressed his regret that he should be compelled to assume a position of apparent hostility to providing the means of religious ministrations for the community. He thought there was a want of such services. He also regretted that he should assume a position of apparent hostility towards a Church against which he had no such feeling, but he protested against the manner in which the appropriation was made. The Protest was then read as follows : — Wellington, May Slat, 1840. I hereby protest against the appointment of a Colonial Chaplain, and against the aalary of that officer being placed upon the Civil List of the Province, for the following reasons :—: — Firstly, became the Chattel of the colony, founded upon an Act of Parliament, "expressly declares that the Civil List shall be applied to the purposes of "the administration of justice and of the principal civil officers of the Government." And as the office of Colonial Chaplain cannot be included under either of the above-mentioned 'heads, I conceive that, in placing his salary upon the Civil List, the Charter of the colony U violated. Secondly, I protest against the appointment, because its effect is to place one religious denomination in connexion with the State, and thus to produce sectarian jealousies and discord. Thirdly, I protest against the appointment, because I conceive that unless the principle be practically admitted, that all classes of Christians are to be supported by the State, it is unjust to take a sum out of the revenue contributed by all, and apply it to the support of any one denomination. D. Alonbo. I concur in the above. Hbnrt W. Pstke. A. I/DDLAM. Al/TSED DOMBTT. The Colonial Treasurer, concurred in the sentiments of the hon. member. He viewed with considerable alarm this sum of £200. He looked upon it as the foundation on which to build a Church establishment. He considered it as an attack on religious liberty, and they all knew how closely connected were civil and religious liberty. He could not see any great difference between forcing a person to belong to a particular creed, and forcing him to contribute to the support of one to which he did not belong. He regretted that the item was placed on the Civil List, because it prevented the Council from expressing their opinion in the most direct manner. The Colonial Secretary said that he entirely concurred with the hon. member who had just spoken, and should sign the Protest put in by bis hon. friend (Dr. Monro), as it gave succinctly and correctly the chief reason against the appointment under discussion. He thought it hardly necessary to disclaim any hostile feeling towards either the Church of England or the individual minister who filled the office of Colonial Chaplain. He had the greatest pleasure in bearing witness to the exemplary manner in which that rev. gentleman performed the sacred duties of his calling. He well knew, that even with respect to physical exertions, those duties were of a nature which could not be satisfactorily performed but by a person of indefatigable zeal and activity. If the question simply were, what remuneration such services deserved, he would declare his opinion, that twice the amount of salary put down in ths Civil List would be far under the mere pecuniary remuneration the rev. gentleman was entitled to look for. But the appointment was objected to on public principles, which were well enough stated in the protest. His Excellency had defended the appointment on the grounds of the office being a public one. But it was precisely as a public appointment that it was most objectionable. The reasons given were, that the Episcopalians were a very numerous body, and greatly in want of additional religious ministrations. But, if numerous, there wat the greater obligation on them to supply this want themselves ; and in any case, the whole public were not to provide ministers for one sect. The other reason given was, that the services of a clergyman were wanted fpr prisoners in the gaol, and patients in the hospital. But it was obvious that ministers of different sects would be required by prisoners and patients of different religions, and if a minister of one sect was supplied at the public expense for these purposes, other sects had a right to expect the same attention to their adherents. Most of the prisoners hitherto had been military, and a great proportion of them had been Roman Catholics, and could not receive the spiritual ministrations of any but clergymen of their own persuasion. The only apparent ground of defence was, that the appointment was a private one, and the chaplain was an appendage of the Lieutenant- Governor's establishment. But with every desire to protect the efficiency, and preserve the dignity of that establishment, he thought that, in so small a province, a chaplain was hardly needed for these objects whatever the practice elsewhere, especially if an additional charge on the public purse was to be made to supply one. Mr. Moors said that he could not go so far as to object that it was either the right or the duty of the Government to provide for the spiritual wants of thoie who came under their particular care ; he thought it was the bounden duty of the Government to do this, and assuming that, he

nlso thought it perfectly fnir. and just that the jTiinister to be so appointed should be one who might be fairly considered to represent aronjority, and there could be no doubt that the Church of England, as compared with any other denomination, was in a very large majority ; still, although he could not sign the protest, he was compelled, most reluctantanly and painfully, to object to the manner in which the appointment had been made. Me objpeted to its having been put out of the »power of the Council to express any opinion on this item, without adopting the extreme measure, which he presumed was the only one open to the hon. member who made the protest ; and secondly, he objected to the payment, by the State, for services rendered to the Church, and from the funds of the Church for services rendered to the State ; and, on a comparison of the amounts received by the reverend and estimable gentleman, whose position .was thus invidiously placed under discussion, it would appear that this in effect was done, as he received £200 per annum from Government, and £50 per annum from the Church funds. He had just heard an hon. member say, that the zeal and services of the rev. gentleman entitled him to a much higher amount than that which he received. He quite agreed with the hon. member, and would go further, and say that, in his humble estimation, they were beyond all praise, and beyond «U pecuniary reward, and it was this consideration which constituted the great sacrifice of personal feeling, and the consequent pain with which, under a sense of duty, he had made these remarks. The Council then proceeded to consider the Nelson Estimates. On the sum of £126 ss. being proposed for his Honour the Superintendent, Mr.- Greenwood said he considered it quite unnecessary for an officer at so high a salary to be placed in Nelson ; he spoke independently of the individual, and -believed that before the appointment was made the business was an efficiently performed as at present. Dr. Monro said that such an office as that of Superintendent seemed to him quite unnecessary in such a place as Nelson. It had not been called for by the inhabitants of that settlement, but wai part of the cumbrous and disproportioned machinery imposed upon the province, He was unable to say what benefit the settlement might have derived from such an office, but there Lad been a considerable increase of expense and an immense deal of writing. He could not conceive how they could make so much business out of so small a place. The salary of the clerk to the Magistrates and . the Superintendent was raised £20, and that of the assistant-clerk reduced £16 6s. The Police Force was reduced by two privates, with an addition of £50 to the item of contingencies. On the sum of £200 being proposed for the Registrar of Deeds Department, Mr. Hickson moved that the salary be reduced to £100, as he found by enquiry that only three or four deeds had been registered since the appointment was made, and the gentleman who held the office was at liberty to carry on his private practice. The Colonial Secretary could not but be- . lieve the hon. member who proposed the reduction in the salary under discussion, must be entirely ignorant of the duties required for it. The officer - concerned was in the first place .Crown Solicitor, and conducted all. Crown prosecutions that might be required. He was also Registrar of Deeds, and though it was possible not much work had .hitherto been done in this department, the Council should recollect that the moment the Company's Agent was empowered to give conveyances to their purchasers, which might already for anything he knew have been done, there would be about 450 original deeds to register, as well as all supplementary conveyances referring to subsequent transfers of the lands originally sold. Now all these would, as the hon. Attorney-General had informed them, have to be entered verbatim in the registers by this officer, and no clerk at all was supplied him by Government for this or any other of bis various duties. All this writing -must be done with his own hand, or paid for by himself. Besides this, he was also registrar of births, deaths and marriages, and unless the population of Nelson were behind that of Wellington in the art of increasing, they would supply their registrar with nearly as much work as the Wellington people did their own, seeing that the population of Nelson amounted to more than three- fifths of that of this place. Mr. JPoynter was also a member of the Board of Survey, and as such, all tenders for public works must come under his consideration. These would most probably be greatly increased if the money promised by his Excellency for the Waitohi road should be spent next year. Again, he was the .principal member of the boani. ,gf management of Native Reserves ; and alKjfthe terms for leases of about 200 sections of land must be made by him. As Crown Solicitor he would also have to draw up, or at lj|& examine for the Crown the leases themselves. Vhrthe had ■Ufe further duties to perform of geneTO legal fidviser to the Superintendent; as such"jfe (the Colonial Secretary) knew officially thafrTiis services were frequently required, and ai in all governments of communities however small, such were frequently absolutely indispensable. There were other minor duties which he need not mention, but for all these the hon. member thought £200J a year toogreat a sum to give to a gentlemaa ofi education ana integrity, very considerable practicSt^xperience, and sound judgment. Nor would his private practice as a lawyer alter the question in the least, for every one knew that happily for Nelson there was scarcely ever litigation enough there to support one lawyer, much less two. He could not then but think that in attacking this salary, the hon. member had been influenced by a rage for retrenchment, a perfect; cacoethes of cutting down, a 40 Joe-Hume power of finding a grievance in all public expenditure, which he hoped the Council would not catch of him. He was confident that if an expression of the feeling of the whole public of Nelson could be obtained, this was about the last officer they would be found to wish to deprive of hit sblajry. Mr. Greenwood said thai its "Registrar of Deeds was appointed nearly two years ago^pd had since then received about £400 of the pitf>lic foods ; and on reference to the returns, he found that the sum of £8 10s. had been received for the work done in the office during that period. The

Colonial Secretary had pointed out a great many offices, but the duties appeared to him to be' mostly prospective. It appeared to him that the appointment had been made two years too"soon. Dr. Monro opposed the amendment, which was lost. In place of the sum of £62 for Charitable Aid, a sum of £160 was substituted for General Contingencies. The Council adjourned till Friday. Friday, Junk I. Present—All the members, with the exception of Mr. F. D. Bell. v TURNPIKE BILL. Mr. Ludiam moved an address to his Excellency, requesting him to introduce a bill for the establishment of turnpikes. Dr. Monro seconded the motion. Mr. Moore enquired of the hon. member who moved the address, whether his plan contemplated only the repairing of the existing roads, or whether it included the making of such roads as might be required, as in that case he could not see how the principle of turnpikes would be sufficient. He thought that to be of any use, the bill should provide not only for the repair of the existing roads, but for the construction of new ones where necessary, and the only means of attaining that object appeared to be a tax on such land as might be benefited by the road. He should wish the bill to be as comprehensive as possible, and not confined to one system. " Mr. Ludlam said he proposed to confine it to the repair of roads, as he thought no amount of toll would provide the means of making them. He had no objection to a land tax, but thought the Braount raised by it would be so small as not to make a quarter of a mile in a year. The Colonial Secretary said that if the Council was bound by the address to the principle of turnpikes, he thought it was a question whether they should adopt it ; but he was in favour of the address provided it did not pledge the Council to adopt the system of tolls. The Governor said that before putting the question, he should wish to state his own views on the principal question, viz., that of imposing tolls. From the experience of other colonies he feared there would be great difficulty in carrying out that system. There was only one position in which a tnrnpike could be erected with any prospect of paying the bare expenses of collection, and that was on the road to Kai Warra. He thought it one of the most obnoxious systems of taxation, and it was especially objectionable as the natives were just beginning to gethorses, and would of course have to pay the toll. Whatever the Council recommended, he was prepared to support, but he thought it right to mention the very strong feeling which he had against the introduction of turnpikes, and also that there was great doubt whether a bill for that purpose, if passed, would receive the sanction of the Gover-nor-in-Chief. He thought that a tax on land would be preferable, the sum raised, although -small, would help to keep the roads in repair, and would not be liable to the same reduction for collecting. Mr. Greenwood gave notice that on the first reading he should move — That under an economical and well regulated system of government, an import duty of .£lO per cent, is sufficient not only to defray m ordinary current erpenses, but to supply funds for the maintenance of roads, and the encouragement of education. He objected to the introduction of a system of internal taxation. Mr. Ludlam did not think it any hardship that the natives, who used the road, should contribute towards the repair of it. Dr. Monro said that if a toll was the most obnoxious mode of raising a fund for the repair of the road, he thought it would hardly be adopted throughout England. With respect to his Excellency's observations in reference to the natives, he thought there would be no difficulty in persuading them that by paying a toll they reaped a corresponding advantage : and lastly, with regard to the remarks of his Excellenry relative to his own objection, and that of the Governor-in-Chief, while he would give due weight to his Excellency's opinion as a member of that Council, he could not allow any weight to any anticipated* objections of the Governor-in-Chief. The Governor explained that he only intended to refer such objections on the part of his Excellency the Governor-in-Chief, as had arisen from his own experience in other colonies. Dr. Monro said that in regard to the other colonies, he would remind his Excellency that the physical circumstances of the places were different, j. and if he was satisfied that any measure was foM the benefit of the colony, he should not be deterred? from giving it his support by knowing that it would be rejected by the Governor-in-Chief, as he considered that the responsibility in that case would rest on the Governor-in-Chief. The address was adopted. The Governor said he should be prepared to give his reply to it at the next meeting of Council. THE ESTIMATES. The Council then went into committee on the Estimates. On the sum of £120 for the department of the Resident Magistrate at Otago being proposed, gi^Dr. Monro said he understood it was intended 1 ■that that part of New Zealand should be formed into a separate Province, and that the officers of Government were now on their way out. The Governor believed the despatch of Earl Grey sanctioned a third Province, if the Governor-in-Chief thought such an arrangement dasirable, and he therefore sould hardly snppose that the Lieutenaut-Governor and officers were on their way out. On the Harbour item, his Excellency said be had received a petition from the pilot at Otago, stating that the allowance from Government and the amount be received as pilotage fees, were not | sufficient to enable him to keep up a boat and boat's crew, and praying an addition to bis salary. His Excellency further stated that Captain Stokes, of H.M.S. Acheron, had added his recommendation. The Council decided that the salary of the pilot should be £100 per annum, and that he should retrain all sums received for pilotage. On the sum of £131 being proposed for the Resident Magistrate at Akaroa,

Mr. Moob» said, that under the impression that the offices of the Resident Magistrate and two constable! were almost sinecures, he was prepared to propose a considerable reduction if he had not been prevented by the Civil List. The Governor said that Akaroa, being the principal port between this and Otago, it was desirable that there should be some) moans of preventing smuggling, and he believed that the expense was thereby fully saved to the revenue. Mr. Moore said he believed that a great deal of smuggling was going on, and he did not think the force was sufficient to prevent it. The Education item was expunged provisionally, until the Committee on the subject should bring up their report. Mr. Hickson, in confirmation of what he had stated with regard to natives being less efficient than Europeans in the pilot boat, said a circumstance had occurred three days since, in which the brig Louis and Miriam required the assistance of the pilot boat, and the natives had refused to go out. The Committee then adjourned. Dr. Monro gave notice that, at the next sitting, he should move that the Council adopt the following resolution: — "That the ram of £ 6,000, reserved by the Charter of the colony aa a Civil List for each Province, it a much larger amount than is required for the maintenance of the Administion of Justice and the Principal Civil Officer* of the Govern* ment, these being the objects for which the Imperial Parliament empowered her Majesty to make such a reservation : and this Council is further of opinion, that the reservation of so large a sum effectually debars it from exercising an efficient control over the expenditure of the Province." Mr. Greenwood gave notice that he should move as an addition to the above resolution, " That it is desirable, in future Estimates, to separate the items chargeable on the ordinary revenue from those which are to be defrayed from the Parliam«nty Grant." The Council adjourned till Monday. Monday, June 4. Present— All the members, with the exception of Mr. F. D. Bell. The Governor read to the Council a reply to -the address adopted on Friday, on the motion of Mr. Ludlam, in which he stated he had directed the Attorney-General to prepare a Bill to authorize the levying and collecting tolls within the Province. His Excellency at the same time expressed an unfavourable opinion of the proposed measure. ROADS BILL. The Council then went into committee on the Roads Bill, when, after a brief discussion, a subcommittee was appointed to consider the provisions of the bill, and the committee adjourned. Mr. Ltjdlam then moved the adoption of the following resolution— ''That this Council is of opinion, that the portion of the Parliamentary Grant spent in this province on public roads has not been productive of so much benefit to the colony as, under a different system of application, it might have been ; and that this Council recommends to his Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor that, for the future, wherever practicable, the system of contracts should be resorted to in the -construction of all public works." He said that, from what he had seen of the roadmaking which had been going on for the last two or three years, he thought that, if done by contract, it might be done cheaper. With regard to the employment of natives, he believed that European contractors would employ Maories, who were now well acquainted with the use of European implements. Another advantage arising from the system of contracts would be, that the surveyor being relieved from overlooking the labourers, would have time to lay out, with care, proper lines of road. Mr. Moore seconded the motion. He said that he perfectly agreed with the remarks of his boo. friend, and nothwithstanding the large expenditure, he thought the money was not expended in such a manner as to confer the greatest amount of benefit to the colony. He was of opinion that more good might be effected by the contract system, and therefore he agreed to the resolution. The Governor said that the resolution just proposed embraced two points — the one, to the effect that the Parliamentary Grant did not proddMT.sO much benefit as it might do by a different system of management ; the other, that the Council recommend the adoption of the system of contracts. With regard to the first point, he thought it rather premature to call on the Council to pass a resolution, when many of the hon. could have had no opportunity^ jjs*fc*ming an opinion on the subjeei. The hon. members who had recentl^ttrivadlrtiad not been to Wairarapa and Waiiflrwhieh were the roads in question. The secona part of the resolution referred to the subject of contracts, not only for the roads, but for MBlicdrtforks generally. He thought that, from He expression used, an inference might he drawn, [that the Government were not in the habit of employing contracts ; he could only say that the Government had been in the habit of .contracting, and where such was not the case it was because there were no eligible tenders. He would observe also, that Mr. Fitzgerald at one time was strongly in favour of contracts. He (Mr. F) had been under the impression that a large sum was to be expended and extensive works undertaken, and under that impression had recommended the adoption of contracts. Mr. Ludlam said he had never seen any advertisement! for contracts relating to roads, and he knew several instances in which the work might have been advantageously performed by contract. Dr. Monro said that if the resolution of his hon. friend went to condemn the Government and strongly to censure its conduct, he Should have great hesitation in supporting it, but he thought bis Excellency was mistaken in taking such a view of the case. With regard to the roads here, he found there was a general impression abroad that there was not so much done as might have been done, and he thought his bon. friend had made out a tolerably good case. He thought the system of contracts was the best, and it appeared that the native* were so far civilised and accustomed to the use of tools that they would take the contracts, or at least work for those who did take the contracts. After some further remarks, the resolution was agreed to. CIVIL LIST. Dr. Monro then moved the adoption of the resolution, of which he had given notice on Friday. During the discussion which ensued, Dr. Monro

agreed that the Parliamentary Grant was intended to form a portion of the revenue within the control of the Council, and that the Civil List was a deduction, not from the ordinary revenue of some £18,000, but from the total revenue including the grant appropriated to this Province. He reminded the Council of the fact that the " Revenue," which they had been called upon to appropriate, consisted of the ordinary revenue and a sum of £2,700 from the Parliamentary Graat, and if this £2,700 was a portion of the revenue, why not the whole grant ? He called upon his Excellency to produce any documents which would set the question at rest. The Governor replied to the effect that he had no documents but the Charter, which set forth that the Civil List was a sum of £6,000 out of the revenue of this Province, without any reference to the Parliamentary Grant, which was at the disposal of the Governor-in-Chief for such objects as he might think likely to promote the welfare of the colony. Dr. Monro regretted that his Excellency was unable to throw more light on a subject of such difficulty. He maintained that "the Revenue," as used in the Charter in reference to the Civil List, meant the ordinary revenue with the portion of the Parliamentary Grant allotted to this Ptovince. The total revenue last year was about £46,000, of which sum, according to his Excellency, only £12,000 was within the disposal of the Council. Mr. Moore did not think it was intended that the Parliamentary Grant should be under the control of the Council, because it was stated in Earl Grey's despatch, that while receiving aid from the Home Government, the colonists must be contented with a partial voice in their affairs. He observed that out of the small revenue, at least one-third was beyond their control, which arrangement he considered unfair on the part of the Home Government Without having a voice in the disposal of the whole funds, he did not see how any real benefit could be derived from their sitting. They could form no fund for education, emigration, steam navigation, &c, aud therefore it was his opinion that the whole revenue should be placed under the control of any council which might be called upon to administer it. The resolution was put and carried. Mr. Greenwood then moved the adoption of the resolution of which he had given notice, which was seconded by Mr. Seymour, and adopted after a short discussion. On the motion of Mr. Ludlam a sub-committee was appointed to consider the* provisions of the Turnpike BUI. M.. Hickson said that before' the Council separated, he wished to make a few observations on a subject which concerned himself personally, and two other gentlemen present. When they were appointed members of the Legislative Council, under the Jury Ordinance they became exempt from serving on juries, and their names had consequently been struck off the jury list. Since that time the Sheriff, instead of summoning the members of the Conncil as grand jurors, simply requested them to attend when required to do so. He had always considered it a point of duty to attend when not rendered very inconvenient by business arrangements. On Friday last, however, he was not present at the Supreme Court as a grand juror, in consequence of having attended four days a week the sittings of the Legislative Council during the last month ; it could not therefore be reasonably expected that he should occupy a further portion of his time, to the neglect of his business, by attending as a grand juror. Upon the names of the gentlemen of the grand jury being called over, his Houour the Judge directed the Sheriff not to request the members of the Council to attend in future, remarking, that as he could not compel their attendance, he would not be under an obligation to them to attend as a favour. Under the circumstances be (Mr. Hickson) considered such an observatiou by his Honour was most undeserved, unprovoked, and uncalled for, and unbecoming a Judge sitting in a judicial capacity. Mr. Moore said that be should hardly have thought it necessary to take any notice of a report which appeared in a public print, respecting the remark of his Honour the Judge, but at his hon. friend bad mentioned it, he would only observe that, on every occasion previous to the last, he bad attended the grand jury, thereby shewing that he had no disposition to shield himself under any privilege from the performance of public duties, He could not say how far the report was correct, but he considered the reflection unjust, and that any remark of the kind was very uncalled for, com. ing as it did from so grave and dignified a functionary. He would state in explanation (and he hoped his Honour would hear or see the statement), that on the occasion in question he went from the Council Chamber to his desk, and' wrote letters and accounts which were absolutely necessary, as they were to go by a vessel the following day. He continued writing till two o'clock, and immediately he had finished his breakfast on the following morning he again went to |his desk, and remained writing tillhejeft it for the Council. The Governor said he was very sorry such JL expression should have fallen from his Honqb& but he could not help thinking that it was in some degree mis-stated, and he had no doubt that: the remarks which had been made in that. Council \ would call forth some explanation from him on * the subject. He thought it must have been used by way of badinage, but even that he considered improper in so high a fuctionary. Mr. Bannatyn* said he was present on the occasion, and the words used by his Honour were as follows — " Mr. Sheriff, you njfcd not summon the members of the Legislative Council again, because as the Court cannot compel them to attend , it will not ask them to do so asafevour." Dr. Mcnko asked the AttpjJgy-titaerM; whether the Judge had power to exdudeTJy not ««wi; fc moning them. Imm The Attorn by- General said he had nofll| that the Ordinance named the persons who were^ to be summoned, but the members of Council nqf| v being bound to attend could not be fined. The sheriff was bound to summon all those who were named in the Ordinance. Tbe Counciljfcen. adjourned till Tuesday.