THE LICENSING QUESTION

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume LXI, 9 November 1927, Page 5

THE LICENSING QUESTION

Following is the full text of the statement made by the Prime Minister when introducing the Licensing Amendment BilL into the House -of Representatives this afternoon. • “This Bill which has just been introduced by • Governor-General’s message represents the fulfilment of an undertaking'given by me to the House as well as to many delegations, which have waited upon me from time to time, That an opportunity would be given in this Parliament for consideration of the ' licensing question. As is well known the licensing question is one which has always been treated as a matter outside ordinary party politics; that is to say members of Parliament have always had a free hand in recording their opinions arid convictions in regard to any licensing legislation which may come before the House. There is no intention what-

ever of departing from thisi custom in i the present instance, and as far as members on the Government side of the House are concerned they are quite unfettered by any party ties in their consideration of the proposals which are submitted in this measure.

The Bill, therefore, is in no sense a Government measure. The proposals are the outcome of my own consideration of the question, and I submit them in the nope that they. contain features'calculated to give a lead upon the questions which occupy foremost place in the minds of those who study our social and economic life. In making this statement I would like to refer to my own personal position, in regard to certain views expressed by me at the last general election. I then stated i that I was in favour of .the three-issue ballot paper. .>"•-• . The Bill now befwe the House eliminates the third issue, that is'-the State control .issued Careful consideration and examination of the figures recorded for what js known .as the third issue, namely State control, have led me to ' the conclusion" that its existence can hardly be justified. At the same time, to ensure that a drastic change, such as the carrying of national prohibition would involve, should have a. stable majority in its favour the Bill provides for not less than 55 per cent, of the total votes "recorded at the licensing poll as being necessary to cany national prohibition. It is also advisable that if prohibition is earned 'it should not be reversed except by a stable majority. “Elimination of the third issue in the ballot paper, the institution of a -55 per cent, majority and the substitution of licensing polls at every alternate general election in the place of the pre- . sent triennial polls are the chief features of the provisions of the Bill. As members will recollect the Bill was Submitted to the House last year, but I cannot say . that its reception generally was encouraging. On the contrary its proposals seemed to be unwanted and the present proposals are submitted in ■ the belief that they are worthy V>f very careful consideration by Parliament. Discussing the Licensing Bill Mr J. 'McCombs said he hoped the late arrival of the Bill did not mean that it would be dropped if there was any opposition. The New Zealand Alliance was not asking for anything but simple justice in connection with the ballot paper. Under the existing law with the threeissue ballot paper- the trade was presented with 40,000 votes, for votes cast m favour, of State control were really votes in favour of continuance. Under the proposed Bill, however, the Alliance would he up against a handicap of 67,500 votes. That was the reply of the Government to the request of the Alliance for mere justice. There would be great indignation at wliat was proposed for the Government was treating with contempt a large body of electors who (were not seeking favours but simple justice. He hoped every opportunity would he given by the Government. for a definite decision by Parliament. All that was wanted by the Alliance was a free and unfettered vote rn the licensing issue. , Mr J,. A. Lee: /‘Why get heated about, a non-controversial measure?” (Laughter). Mr McCombs wanted to know why the Government was placing a handicap on a section of the community that was striving for the welfare of the public as a whole. . , M r T. M. Wilfprd said that the Bui would take away his right as one individual to vote for State control, he protested against that provision. The people had not asked for the elimination of that issue. He had read somewhere that there was to be an agreement for a bare majority if there was a threeissue ballot paper. Did that agreement hold if there were not going to be the three issues?

■MAORI VOTE?

The Hon. Apirana Ngata raised the question of Maori electors exercising a vote on the licensing question, there were about 20,000 such electors, but they did not have a vote on the pro-hibition-continuance issue. He maintained they should have a vote on the question. , . . Mr W. -T. Jordan said the provisions of the Bill in regard to the ballot paper would come as a shock to the people for the Bill was loaded on one side. He was sure it. would not be acceptable to the majority of the electors. Mr G. W. Forbes wanted to know whether the Bill had been passed by the Reform caucus. (Laughter). He asked if the Government was really serious about the Bill this session. If they were not thev should let members know at once in'order that they need not waste any further time with it. Mr Foihes dealt with the need of paying some attention to the accommodation at licensed hotels. It was not fair, however. to expect hotel-keepers to improve the accommodation unless they were given some security of tenure. Three years was not long enough. It had been 1 said that/ Parliament should not he called on to deal with licensing matters, hut the House had amended the legislation dealing with the (losing hours of hotels. Mr McCombs, speaking a second tune, said he had always moved along the line of letting the people decide the licensing issue. That was in accord

AMENDING BILL BEFORE PARLIAMENT TWO-ISSUE BALLOT PROPOSED PROHIBITION REQUIRES 55 PER CENT. MAJORITY POLL EVERY SIX YEARS (By Telegraph) (From “The Mail’s” Parliamentary Reporter). , WELLINGTON, Bth November. The Licensing Amendment Bill came down in the House of Representatives yesterday and resulted in a lengthy debate. The Prime Minister (the Right Hon. J. G. Coates) said that the Bill was in no sense a party measure and that all members were free to vote as they chose. The most important alterations proposed in the Bui are the abolition of the- State Control issue from the ballot paper and the introduction of a provision that Prohibition to be successful must gain 55 per cent, of the votes cast at the polL Under the Bill licensing! elections are to take place simultaneously "with every, alternate general election and National Prohibition, if carried, is to come into force on the following 30th June. The Bill was eventually put through its first reading.

with the Labour Party’s policy. The hours question, however, had always been, regarded as a matter Jor, the legislature' to decide. The handicap proposed in the Bill was 67,500, an increase of 28,300 in the handicap as compared with the last poll. In other words the Government proposed to increase the handicap by 72 per cent. He hoped the Prime Minister would say at whose request the increase in the handicap came to be placed in the Bill. Mr R. W. Smith expressed regret that no provision was made in the Bill for the. taking of a vote in the King Country to decide whether there should be license or not. Mr J. C. Rolleston supported Mr Smith and said the people of the King Country were the only people in the Dominion who were deprived of a vote on the licensing question.

MR ATMORE FAVOURS STATE CONTROL

Mr Harry Atihore could not see that injustice would he perpetrated on.,prohibitionists by retention of the State control-issue. He favoured State control and had always voted for it. He had yet to learn that it was democratic to deprive 56,000 people of the right to say what they desired. If the prohibitionists gained a bare majority on the three-issue ballot paper what more could they want? Mr Atmore then alluded to Mr G. W. Forbes’s question as to whether the Bill had been submitted to the Reform caucus. He was surprised at the innocence of Mr Forbes in asking the question as to whether the Bill had been before the capcus. The Government was incapable of giving the lead on any question:, v “Why, this is a fishing expedition,” said Mr Atmore, “and the Bill is not intended, to go through.” The Hon.'W. Nosworthy: “It might hook you,” (Laughter). Mr Atmore: “It might. The hon. Minister himself will have to do some hooking for he has lost his constituency.” “Don’t you worry about me, replied Air Nosworthy, amidst laughter. Mr Atmore': “The hon. Minister is destined for another place.” Mr NoswoTthy : “I might land in Nelsonf.yel.”; -n- . , , 'Mr Atmore: “You might be deported. (Laughter). They’d'give you some of your own medicine.*

GOVERNMENT SEEKING A SIGN

There was a time when the Government used to give the lead, but now it had to follow. - “They are looking around now to try to count the heads,” remarked Mr Atmore. “They are seeksign. They don’t know their .own minds. They did not know their own minds on the Bible in schools. They d allow a big State institution like that to he altered cn the motion of a private member and on this Bill they are looking for a lead.” Reference had been made by Mr Wilford to the question of -some agreement having been entered into., It was very reasonable to suppose that there had been some bargain and it was unreasonable to suppose that one side would forego the advantage it had in the three-fifths majority without, some compensating bargain being made. If 'such a bargain were made surely the Government would know of it. If the State Control issue was to be cut out he would protest on the ground that it was undemocratic to do that. It seemed to him that the Government counted the heads qf the prohibitionists and the people in the trade, but in his opinion the great hulk of people ,in between were entitled to some consideration. They would -see whether the Government was in earnest. He predicted they were not and that the Bill would not go through. Mr H. G. R. Mason put in a plea for wine makers. Six months was not sufficient time for them to clear up their business.

PRIME MINISTER’S POSITION

Mr Coates said, that as far as he was concerned members could sit until Christmas or the New Year provided they could have the thing thrashed out and arrive at some satisfactory solution of the question. In no sense wa9 the Bill a Government measure. It had not been submitted to the Reform Party caucus, neither had he consulted his colleagues upon it. He had felt that it was impossible to consult with anybody ou the master, but that he should bring down the Bill, which would give a lead and afford others an opportunity of expressing their opinions. In reply to what Mr Atmore had said Mr Coates remarked that that member did not have to meet the difficulties the speaker encountered in connection with many questions. “His party is not so hard to get together,” remarked Mr Coatep, amidst laughter. Mr Atmore: “You’ll get that way soon, that will he all right.” Mr Coates: “We never knew what is ahead of us. I am not going to boast about what is going to jtappen, but I am going to try my very hardest to keep the flag flying.” In regard to the point raised- by the Hon. Apirana Ngata with reference to Maori votes Mr Coates said that he would be very glad to consider that matter. Regarding the King Country his difficulty was that certain alleged agreemerits were said to have been arrived at between certain persons, but he had not been able to find confirmatory evidence of this. His chief concern was not on any account to introduce an amendment of any kind likely to interfere with what might have been a compact between the Maori and the Pakeha. No doubt an amendment would be prepared and submitted to the House and the House be given an opportunity of consideiing Mr Cottles concluded by saying lie would not enter into any controversy iegarding the issues on the ballot paper Bill that lie gave a definite lead so that

Parliament might be able to discuss the question. The Bill was read the first time. BILL FURTHER EXPLAINED MANY NEW PROPOSALS In addition to the explanation given by Mr Conies the Licensing Amendment Bill contains a number of important matters. The Bill is in three parts and consists of 36 clauses. Clause 2 of Part I provides that licensing polls shall be taken simultaneously with every alternate general election of members of Parliament. Only two* issues are to be submitted to electors, namely, national continuance or national prohibition. If'{ho total number of valid votes recorded for' national prohibition is not less than 55 per cent, of the total number of valid votes recorded prohibition shall be deemed to .have, been carried and will come into force on the following 30th June. A 55 per cent, majority is necessary to carry national restoration, the poll on this "issue not to bo taken until six years after prohibition has been carried. National restoration will come into force three months after the poll has been taken and licensing committees will be constituted in each licensing district. ' Licensing committee elections will take place every three years. The number of publicans' licenses to be granted shall not exceed one for every complete 500 electors nor be less than one for every complete 1000 electors. Preference in considering the applications shall be given to those who held licenses before prohibition was carried. . • The Bill provides for the taking of special polls in cases v where licensed premises have, by reason of a change ot boundaries., been included in a nolicense district and have been subsequently excluded therefrom. The proposal to grant, a. license in such a. district may be carried on a bare majority, but a poll shall not be taken unless a petition signed by not lesa than 10 per cent, of the electors has been submitted to the Governor-General not later than the next 30th June. . Clause 7 of the Bill provides that an irregular voting paper shall not be informal if the intention of the voter is clearly indicated. The principal Act will not he applicable to the supply ol liquor for medicinal purposes by regis-, tered chemists. . „ If the Bill is carried "private, bar will mean any bar other than a public bar and will include any part of a licensed premises which is principally or exclusively used for the sale, .supply or consumption of intoxicating liquor. Every publican's license granted or renewed after the passing of the Bill shall authorise the use of one public bar and may, if the Licensing Committee thinks fit, provide for the use of one or more private 'bars. J. he number of private, bars is to be specified in the license and an annual fee otMU shall be paid into the Consolidated *und in respect of each private bar. Any person selling liquor-other than, in an authorised bar shall be deemed to have sold liquor without a license. The exhibition of imitation voting papers or posters is to be forbidden within three days of the licensing poll.

ACCOMMODATION AT HOTELS

The Bill contains important, provisions in regard to the accommodation of hoTels. In boroughs, of more than 10,000 inhabitants no licenses for new premises shall be granted unless they contain at least 20 rooms for the public in addition to those required foi the publicans’ family. . Objection may he raised to the granting of a license in cases where bars are not. provided with proper hot water service or where theie is not deemed to be sufficient sanitary or other accommodation for the comfoit, or convenience, of guests. On the grac - ing or renewal of a license the committee may impose conditions requiring th licensee within a specified time to effect what it considers necessary alterations, repairs or additions to the premises. Failure to comply with the. conditions will entail suspension of the license until such time as the work has been earned of New Zealand wine licenses will he under an obligation to maintain order on their premises. , / The Bill provides for the transfer of wholesale licenses. ~. , It will not be an offence to publish advertisements relating to l‘q u <» license districts unless the Court ib satisfied that the advertisements are published with the intention rif procuring orders for liquor from those distncts No woman other than the licensee or the wife, daughter, mother or sister of the licensee or a woman bona Me employed on licensed premises, with the approval of the Licensing Committee, as a "housekeeper shall be. employed in any bar-at a-time when the premises are required to be closed.

LIQUOR SUPPLIED TO MINORS The Bill imposes a penalty of £lO on any one excepting parents or guardians who supplies liquor to persons under 21 years of age. , The provisions of section 10 of tne Sale of Liquor Restriction Apt, fait, have been modified to allow of the serving of liquor at banquets in hotels up tilt 10 o'clock in the evening. A permit to this effect shall not be granted to any society or association more tnan once within six montha , Unregistered barmaids shall he liaoie to a fine of £lO. . , Licensees who fail to keep lodgers register books shall be liable to a penalty of £lO and the Governor-General may make regulations prescribing how those hooks shall be kept.

deletion of third issue

'LICENSING ASSOCIATION’S PROTEST

(United Press Association)

WELLINGTON, This Day. The Dominion executive of the Flensing Reform Association resolved tnis morning:—(l) That the association expresses its amazement at the iniquitous proposal contained in the Licensing nm for the, deletion of the third issue, thereby disfranchising a large and rapidly growing body of thought in tne Dominion, and on behalf of moderate electors calls on Parliament to resist this violation of the principles of democracy; (2) that the association expresses its regret that the proposal of corporate control has found no place in the Licensing Amendment Bill, and respectfully urges ’its inclusion by way of amendment to the Bill, as providing a sound and pi'actical method of controlling the licensing system in the interests of true temperance.

ALLIANCE VIEWS

(United Press ABSOoiation)

WELLINGTON, This Day. The standing committee of the. Now Zealand Alliance issues a statement in which approval is expressed of the Premier’s assurance that Parliament will he left to thresh the matter out. It is disappointed that the provision of the two-issue ballot paper is stultified by the provision of a 55 per cent, majority to carry prohibition. With reference t(H the six year poll, the Alliance always strenuously opposed any extension of time between polls. Details of the proposal with regard to a national restoration poll are leeoiving careful consideration. The Alliance opposes the proposal to extend the hours in which it will he permissive to sell liquor in the dining rooms of hotels until ten o’clock at night; also any removal of control from licensing committees to the policy.