PARLIAMENT

Manawatu Standard, Volume LVII, Issue 305, 24 November 1937, Page 11

PARLIAMENT

FINANCE DEBATE BESUMED

TAXATION AND GUABANTEED PBICE

The House of Representa fives yesterday resumed consideration of the Finance Bill, the subjects under discussion traversing 1 a wide range. Th e provision for relief from payment of land tax on the ground of hardship was closely examined, Rt. Hon. <T. G. Coates contending that the Commissioner of Taxes should not be a member, of the tribunal to hear appeals. Mr Coates also levelled criticism at the guaranteed price scheme, which Hon. P. Fraser defended.

FINANCE BILL DEBATE. TAX ON RACING CLUBS. APPEAL FOR REDUCTION. Per Press Association. WELLINGTON, No. 23. .Continuing to-day the second reading debate on the Finance Bill, which was interrupted by the adjournment in the House of Representatives last night, Mr W. J. Broadfoot appealed for a reduction of the taxation being imposed on racing clubs. The Government in a time of prosperity like the present could give relief to these clubs to enable them to increase their stakes and make other necessary improvements. He instanced the fact that many of the big racehorse owners were taking their horses to Australia to take advantage of the better stakes offering there. Why not give clubs relief for only One year? he asked. Mr Broadfoot criticised the present system of granting relief in cases of hardship which, he said, was liable to lead to patronage by Ministers. He thought they were exacting too heavy a toll- from the people who did bet on horses. Personally, he did not believe in betting, which appeared stupid to him, but it seemed to be ingrained in the British people. There could be a direct reduction in taxation if the problem were tackled correctly and the large amount of illicit betting going on to-day were brought within the proper taxation channels. Mr Broadfoot criticised the Minister of Finance (Hon. W. Nash), because he had not before this presented returns for the final realisation on the guaranteed butterfat prices and also made public the price paid for Picot Bros.

LOCAL BODY EXPENDITURE. Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes said he would like to see the amount allowed to loc*l bodies for unauthorised expenditure increased. The sum allowed at present was too sma.ll and the Government was always parsing validating legislation to provide for excesses ot local body unauthorised expenditure. He asked the Government what was being don© to recognise the services to aviation of Miss Jean Batten. Other countries had thought she was worthy of recognition and she was also worthy of it in the country of her birth. . Mr Forbes drew attention to the fact that it- had been promised there should be an overhaul of the whole land and income tax position in the Dominion, and the hardship clause Under the graduated land tax ill the Bill showed this was necessary. He thought the present hardship clause would not satisfy very many. The aspect which had been overlooked, said Mr Forbes, was that a man might be able to pay his taxation only at the expense of the land he farmed. The land might be robbed of fertilisers and necessary improvements and neglected in order that the farmer could pay his taxes. Mr Forbes added that lie did not think a 'Minister of the Crown should interfere with the confidential affairs of anyone, as he would be forced to do under the hardship clause of the Bill, and it would place the Minister himself in a false position by acting as arbiter. , ~ Mr C. H. Burnett, referring to the borrowing powers which were conferred in the Bill for the railways, said the money was for the completion of old railways which the past Government had left uncompleted. He paid a tribute to the Minister of Public Works (Hon. R. Semple) for his energetic policy. With regard to the graduated land tax hardship clause, he agreed it was necessary to have a classification of the land throughout New Zealand, and he thought the Minister should consider the inequity of the tax in some cases.

AIR POLSON CRITICAL. Air W. J. Poison said he was sorry the Rural Advances Department had gone. It had been a fine co-operative organisation and now it was being replaced by a machine. It might have been of inestimable value to the producers of the country. He thought the hardship clause in the Bill was the, worst that had been promulgated up till the present. It put unpredecented legislative power into the bands of one man, namely, the Alinister of I inance. He did not suggest that the present Alinister would do anything improper.. Labour interjection: He is responsible to Parliament. Air Poison : No; he is not. He is a pure autocrat. When it comes to a decision of the commission the dice a.re loaded against the appellant. The commission comprises three of the hardest of our civil servants. Even if they did say that a case of hardship existed, .the Alinister might consider the case and say there was none, and there was no appeal against the Alinister decision, added Air Poison. The Alinister had opposed such a course, hut now he had put it. into his own Bill. Personally, he would not like to refer a case to the Alinister. Air A. G. Osborne: Perhaps the honourable member would rather have the Commissioner of Police on the commission ? POINTS OF ORDER.

Mr Poison: I’d rather have the Commissioner of Police than the Minister, because the Minister is a fanatic. . . Mr A. F. Honour rose to a point or order, asking if Mr Poison was entitled to use the word fanatic. The acting-Speaker, Mr E. J. Howard : The Minister himself has not objected to the use of the word. Hon. P. Fraser: He accepted it, knowing the quarter from winch it came. (Laughter.) . . Mr Poison, continuing, said the Minister had the power to over-ride the law itself. He had traduced members of the Opposition, 6aymg they were saying things which were not in the interests of the Dominion because they had dared to point to the danger of a depression. The Attorney-General (Hon. H. tr. R Mason) rose to a further point of order, contending Mr Poison had no right to use the-word “traduced. The Speaker (Hon. W. E. Barnard) ruled that “traduced”'was not an unparliamentary word. Mr Poison said he would not have used the word if the Minister had not flung it across tlio floor in the form of

an interjection that he (Mr Poison) did not know how to be honest. The Speaker: Does the honourable member object to the Minister’s expression ? Will he raise a point of order? . . , . Mr Poison did not raise la point or order, but merely contented himself with objecting to the Minister’s interjection. ' CLASSIFICATION URGED. Continuing his speech, Mr Poison sa.id it was only the present boom times which enabled the farmers to pay the present heavy taxation. There should be a hardship clause introduced which would prevent the farmers being stripped of everything they possessed in the event of a depression. He urged the classification of land, which would enable the land which could bear taxation to pay it and the land which could not would he exempted, borne scandalous injustices had been perpetrated under the present system ot taxation. , Mr B. Roberts said they wanted a policy of expansion, not contraction. The present system of dairy produce marketing had resulted in cutting out speculation, which in one case in the past had been responsible for the Joss of m,bout £30,000. Factories in the past had been- sending their produce away without any reference to ttao requirements of the dairy markets, lne present national policy made for a continuity of marketing. POST-WAR BOOM. The Minister of Lands, Hon. F. Langstone, referred to the boom in land values after the war consequent on the investment of huge sums in the settlement of discharged soldiers upon the land, and said that -when the slump came much more damage could have been done hut for the understanding and sympathetic administration of '’m Lands Department. The total lo- represented by the writing down of land values was . £6,820,000, and the amount did not include the loss which would result from the cases now under consideration. There was the closest co-operation between the Lands'Department and. the Mortgage Corporation, and anything his department could do to safeguard the securities in interests of the Dominion would he done. The Minister proceeded to deal with the Government’s difficulties in dealing with the butter box question, and said the provision of the present sa.ranac boxes meant a tremendous saving of timber and was an important factor in the conservation of the Dominion’s white pine supplies. He did not know of any other timber lyhich was such a wonderful container for butter as white pine. - :■ ■ STATE HOUSE TENANCY. Mr S. G. Smith concended that the provisions of the tenancy imposed on tenants of State houses should be much simpler than they were at present. There were a number of provisions in the Bill which the Minister might have made much clearer than lie did. He asked the Minister to outline the provisions regarding the purchase of Picot 'Brothers, an assurance that he would do so being given by Mr Nash. Mr Smith continued bv reminding the Minister that under the guaranteed price scheme the dairy farmers themselves were paying more for their butter than previously. Mr J. Robertson said that if a proper analysis -were made of the unemployment position it would he found that there was no more unemployment to-day than there had been in 102829, probably not so much. He considered the Opposition was placing too narrow an interpretation on the hardship clause to give relief from the graduated land tax. He congratulated the Minister on the success of the dairy produce marketing scheme and said the present Government had done more for the farmers than any other Government. "CONFUSING THE ISSUES.” Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates said the Minister of Finance was continuing his policy of confusing the issues so that the public to-day had no real indication of what the Government’s financial policy was. He classed as bad legislation the provision setting up a commission containing the Commissioner | of Taxes to “adjudicate on cases of hardship under the graduated land tax. The commissioner should have a personnel which was quite impartial. He contended, referring to the clauses in the Bill relating to the taxation ot dividends of mining companies, that no law passed should be retrospective. If any company, such as the AVaihi Gold Mining Company, which had been mentioned by Hon. W. Nash the previous evening, had broken the law then the Court should deal with the case. He expressed doubt as to whether the dairy farmers, in view of increasing costs, were any better off i to-day than they were in 1925. - If j the Government wished to l>e consistent it would guarantee the farmer a minimum price for botterfat.. The speaker asked the Minister if the Dairy Industry Account for the year ended on July 31. If it ended on

that date, Mr Coates asked did the Minister take into account Only the butter shipped up to that time or did a certain portion of it,go into the next year? He thought the Minister could have told them what the deficit in the Dairy Account was. THE MINIMUM PRICE. The Minister of Education (Hon. P. Fraser) said Mr Coates plainly had not midersfood the Government’s legislation regarding guaranteed prices, which was at least constructive. What had Mr Coates offered the dairy farmers? he asked. He had offered them a minimum price the amount of which he had not mentioned and wished to abolish the guaranteed price. Mr Coates: It is not a guarnteed prioe. It is a fixed price. Mr Fraser continued that the Opposition was facing itself four-square against guaranteed prices. It did not say what its minimum price would amount to, or who would get it. Perhaps it might be tenpcnee per pound, as had been suggested by the member for Stratford. The effort of the Labour Government, said Mr Fraser, was to give the farmer stability -and security. An Opposition interjection: Would you give the wool farmer stability, too?

Mr Fraser: If the wool farmer wishes stability let him come along to us and we will talk about it.

The most extraordinary part of Mr Coates’s speech, said Mr Fraser, was his defence of trickery by the Waihi Goldmining Company in tax evasion. He had practically said it was wrong for the Government to try to track down taxation which had been evaded. He knew the right honourable gentleman did not himself believe in the ethics which lie had advocated. They knew him over many years, and knew him too well for that. He had practically said in effect that if they were tricky enough to get away • from the law and they could not be caught by it then good luck to them. Mr Coates’s policy regarding dairying was weak and involved and was aimed at the overthrow of the guaranteed price and Stability for fanners.

.Mr W. Endean said the Minister of Finance had accused him of lack of patriotism in making a statement for publication on his recent visit to >Sydney. He outlined the statements which had been made and said they all had been true. He had always endeavoured to serve his country, and had served it during the strike in Auckland when certain gentlemen on the other side of tile House had been trying to prevent farmers getting their produce loaded. >

He was called to order by the Speaker, who ruled that he could not proceed along that line. Mr Endean continued that he had always been a loyal citizen of the country and Empire and had always brought up his family to bo loyal, also.

“BENEFITED TREMENDOUSLY.” Mr R. Coulter said there was no doubt about it that the farmers had benefited tremendously as a result of the guaranteed price. Never before had the average working farmer been in such an assured position and they would not thank the Opposition for interfering with the guaranteed price.' Air Endean had said that his statements made in Sydney had been correct. One of the things he had said was that the various schemes instituted by the Labour Government would not be a success, but they had proved to be an amazing success. Was that correct? he asked. The farmers of New Zealand had nothing for which to thank the previous Government. Obviously their policy was wrong and it was left for the present Government to correct the position created by its predecessors. That that position had been corrected there could be no shadow of doubt. He agreed with Air Forbes that something might be done for the New Zealand aviatrix, Aiiss Jean Batten, and thought that perhaps some position might be offered her in the Dominion. Air S. G. Holland associated himself with the previous speaker in urging that something might be done for Miss Batten. He asked if the Alinister would consider making the provision for the hardship clause permanent. Air Nash: The laws for land and income tax are to be consolidated next year. Air Holland: Probably that would be the best time to do it. Air Holland asked if the relief provisions would apply to the tax levied in 1935-6.

Air Nash, replying, said they would apply for the two years during which the tax was levied and would apply to 1935-6.

Tlie debate was interrupted by the adjournment at 10.30.