Marlborough Provincial Council.

Marlborough Express, Volume VI, Issue 281, 25 February 1871, Page 5

Marlborough Provincial Council.

An extraordinary Session of the Provincial Council was held on Wednesday last, when were present his Honor the Superintendent, Messrs Connolly, Ingles, Western, Rutland, Ward, Bail lie, G. Dodson, Blick, Paul, Hodson, Robinson, Sinclair, and Douslin.

In the absence of the Speaker, Captain Baillic took the Chair. IDs Honor run Superintendent said he had called the Council together for an extraordinary session in anticipation of the regular period, at the request of nine gentlemen, who were members of the Council, in order to appropriate the proceeds of the Publicans’ Licenses, to the various Education Boardsj which were revenue to be "spent on education matters. ■The difficulty arose, he believed, by the Contribution Act, which provided that all monies which had been Provincial revenue must pass through the Provincial chest, and bo dealt with by the Council. They could not be paid to the Boards except by and with the sanction of the Council, therefore it would be necessary in future sessions to put a sufficient sum down in the Appropriation Acts to cover the amounts. He had prepared an Act to answer the purpose, but no others, and he proposed moving the suspension of the Standing Orders to enable them to deal with the matter in one day. He had not done so, as he thought they could not get a full Council together for the usual business at this period in the year. All other business would be in readiness for the next session, which would be held at the usual time. He would lay on the table a return showing what licenses were issued in the year, with the time they fell due, and the amount paid since 12 th September last year. The Government held that the period when the Governor’s assent was given to the Act was the time when it 'could be said to have been passed, for without it, the Bill would be only so much waste paper. He concluded with moving the first reading of “The Appropriation Bill, No. 1, 1870.” The Speaker here entered and apologised for being late, as he was under the impression that the Council did not meet till twelve o’clock as was usually the case. Mr Hodson presented a petition signed by twenty-two persons, praying that the Philharmonic Society should be allowed the use of the Provincial Hall for concerts and practices, which he laid on the table. The Superintendent moved the suspension of all Standing Orders necessary to enable the Appropriation Bill to pass through all its stages in one day. Mr Ward would like to know how they stood for money matters at the present time, as he did not see a number of sums down which had been paid for licenses. More time should be given to look into these things. As he understood it, the monies were reckoned from the time the Governor’s assent was obtained to the Act, but his own impression was that the

Council' meant them to bo devoted to schools from the date of the passing of the Act by them. It was not necessary to hurry the Bill through like shuffling a pack of cards, and lie thought if orders were suspended to admit of the second reading only, it would bo sufficient at a time. The Education Act was bad in principle, as the money was not equally divided among the several schools, and he would like the matter reconsidered.

Mr Sinclair hoped the Superintendent would put down some additional items irl the Bill, as the town of Picton, Awatcre, and Wairau were omitted from the Bill—out of eight districts three wore omitted.

Mr Robinson did not see the object of the mover, as they could go into Committee without suspending Standing Orders, and do that after : wards if necessary. Mr Conollv said it was not therefore necessary to pass through all the stages in one day if the motion was carried, as the Council could be adjourned at any time ; but there were sufficient members present this morning to enable the motion to pass, which might not occur in the afternoon, however anxious they might be. Mr Ward moved that the Standing Orders be suspended to admit only of the second reading, and referred to the inconveniences offormer times when, in the absence of some of the members, those from Picton caused measures to be hurried through with too great haste for due consideration, causing the Roads and Education Acts to be passed in a shape which rendered them almost unworkable.

Mr Sinclair seconded, hoping that the Government would put in the absent districts of Wairau, Picton, and Awatcre. Upon a division the amendment was lost. Ayes o—Messrs Ward, Blick, Paul, Dodson, Sinclair, Hodson. Noes B—Messrs Seymour, Conolly, Ingles, Western, Rutland, Robinson, Douslin, Baillie. The motion was then carried. The Superintendent then moved the second reading of the Appropriation Bill, and stated that the reason certain districts did not appear was because no monies had been paid therein since 12th September. He hoped the Council would defer discussion until in Committee. Mr Conolly seconded the motion.

Mr Sinclair would prefer to discuss the principle of the Bill now rather than in Committee, as lie understood it was intended to make it retrospective. The motion was carried. The Council went into Committee, with Captain Baillie in the chain

On clause 2, “Education Board, Blenheim,

Mr Robinson moved an amendment that the sum be £214, on the ground that that sum had been paid since 30th June. When the Act was under consideration by the Council last session, it was assumed that it would be assented to immediately, but it was not until after the majority of the licenses for the year had been paid in, that the Governor gave his assent. The Government now sought to take advantage of this, and said they would give only what had been paid since the assent, but he was confident that it was the intention of the Council to hand over all monies accruing after June 30th. Ihe Publicans’ Licenses were not taken into account then, as an item of revenue, nor was any sum set down in the Estimates in aid of Education. The Government held no objection to retaining the revenue, from July 1, but they declined the liabilities. Me maintained that the Council intended the Schools to have all the proceeds of licenses from July I. 1870.-to June-30, 1871. Had the salaries been paid in advance previously in the same way as the licenses, it would not have greatly mattered, but they were greatly in arrear, and unless they got these monies it would bo impossible to meet their liabilities. If the Government meant to take the money to pay their own salaries, they would vote against his amendment ; while those who were in favor of Education, and supporting the Boards, would vote for the motion.

Mr Blick seconded. The Superintendent said lie could not agree witli, much of what had been stated by the last speaker, especially when he said that the licenses paid on July Ist should go for the ensuing year. They knew that during the currency of the year they would receive certain monies ; if all the licenses were paid on June 30th, it would have a colorable appearance, but they were paid at all times and seasons; even now some were in transit. Were the amendment carried, it would have the effect of paying some twice over. (No, no.) He wished to point out to them what they wci J e doing, and the sum voted in that case would be £BOO or £9OO, and lie hoped they would reflect that the sum was more than was rccpiired for Schools, and would lead to extravagance. (No, no.) Well, he would like to be informed what schools ai'e being carried on. If there were any who had any liabilities which they were unable to meet, or to carry on with the sum set down, let them have a grant in aid. If the Council insisted that an increased vote should be given to tlie Education Boards, they would be passing more than could be paid, for they had not the means. Mr Sinclair regretted to have to rise in reply, but it was well understood, both in and out of doors, that the licenses were to be available after June 30th, he had mentioned the question several times, among others to Mr Conolly, for with him everything rested on the interpretation put upon the words, but he was told it was quite unnecessary to alter the wording at all to make it more clear. The Government had now made a most providential discovery, and had consequently used £774 which belonged to the schools. If they did not mean the whole to go to the schools, how was it that licenses were omitted from the Estimates. He was astonished to hear the last speaker talk, of extravagance ; their past career had been one of poverty, and quite the reverse of extravagance. Had the Government not spent all the money, we should never have heard of this quibble. Many of the schools had been carried on with great hardship, and others had been closed. He would have liked to see a higher class of schools, as in Otago and elsewhere. He was surprised to see the Government picking up the crumbs which belonged to Education. Great injustice had been done them in past times by not giving them the land they were entitled to; the injustice to Blenheim would be the least, and he dared say

it Avon Id survive it, but Avhat Avas to become of the other districts ? Ho dissented from the last speaker that they would get two years iuone ; there Avas not a single teacher Avdiosc salary Avas not in arrear, and lie could not feel ordinary patience at the attempt to deprive them of their money. He Avished to knoAvfrom the Executive Avhat had been done Avith it.

Mr ConolljY regretted to sec temper shoAVii on such a dry point. The member accused the Government of misappropriating the money. What Avas the simple duty of the Government under the circumstances ? As they Avcre bound to abide by the law, they could only put down the sums they had done. They could only judge of their intentions by their acts, and the Act said from “the passing of this Act,” therefore ifthey had put down more they would be appropriating what they had not power to do. Had he been asked last session, as he perhaps had been, by Mr Sinclair, lie Avould probably have given such an answer in May that they meant to hand over all paid for the next year, because ho expected the Act to pass before the year had expired. He could hot depart from the letter of the Act noAV. Besides, it Avas not till Novmn- .

her that any Education Board had been elected ; some had not yet established a’ school anywheres and yet they would have between January and July, the monies for tAvo years; Anything beyond Avhat Avas down in the Bill would have to be passed as a grant in aid. It Avas possible that the licenses had not been taken into account in estimating the revenue. The money could not be legally paid over without a full meeting of the Council, Avho alone had the power to alter the item.

Mr Goultur said the accounts were made up* from June to June, and in many cases the licenses were paid on or before the 30th June. Mr Hodson said that the Superintendent had assumed that evtravagance would ensue ; why, if they got the £214 it would do little beyond putting the Blenheim school in repair. It had not been washed out for three years, because the Government had not paid for the work being done ; the stove was so bad that a fire could not be lit for fear of burning the place down ; while the fences were all in a state of dilapidation ; and the teachei’s’ salaries far in arrear. Mr Rutland asked the Government who was liable for the debts of the schotfls prior to September last. He could not see what Blenheim wanted with £214: The Superintendent said that there were only two schools under the charge of the Government—those at Blenheim and the Big Bush —and for these they~were responsi))hT]snofTd the passing of the Act; the others were under the respective committees, who alone were responsible for any liabilities they had incurred during the last two years. Mr Robinson said the Government prided themselves on sticking exactly to the letter of the Act, but he knew they had departed from it by paying accounts for firewood, and other liabilities since June 30th. The revenue was paid in advance, and it would only be the same next year. Whenever the Act was amended, the schools would all find they had lost a year’s revenue. As for the ingenious discovery of the Speaker, the monies might pepaid on June 30th, or even before that, but it would be for the year commencing July Ist. Mr Ward said the monies paid in Blenheim belonged of right to all the schools in the county, but that was not the doctrine laid down at the last sitting. It was better to assist fhe schools where people are few, but there was no principle of justice in the present Act, as the monies paid by Blenheim belonged to the whole county [Mr Robinson : So do the bridges.] The Council stopped the household rate at once, and yet did not enable the revenue to be got by other means until November, and now they had nothing allotted to them because the Act was not passed earlier. They h_ad- four schools in the County of Wairaur and they had entered into a calculation and found that all they could raise was £ 170 for the whole. He would agree to the maximum being raised, but he did not like to pay 2d while just over the hill in Awatere they paid nothing, and had no school. One schoolmaster, whose arrears amounted to -£'sQl . followed him about the streets dunning him, and at last they had to borrow the road money to pay his just claim. They would have borrowed the money, but had seen how easily an Act might be thrown over, as was done in the Blenheim Improvement Act. The present system was unfair, and he hoped yet to get a better oue passed. No school had had so much public money spent upon it as the Blenheim school. [Mr Conolly : Hear.] It might have been badly spent, but spent it was. Here was a large district with four schools, and nothing to keep them with, while others at Awatcre and Kaikoura were not paying a farthing of rates. The Council then adjourned for dinner.

On the return from dinner, the amendment was put, and a division ensued as follows : Ayes, 5 : Messrs Blick, Douslin, Robinson, Hodson, and Sinclair. Noes, 8 : Messrs Seymour, Conolly, Coulter, Western, Rutland, Paul, Ward, and Dodson. The amendment being lost, the Original motion was put and carried. On the item, “Havelock, £6O, Mr Douslin moved that it be increased tb £l2O. He said if anything was more convincing tiian another that the sum ought to be increased, it was what had fallen from Mr Conolly, who said if he had been asked last session whether all the produce of licenses should go to Education, he would have replied Yes. He believed that all the members of the Government were under the impression that the whole of the money was to be paid over to the several schools. Acting upon a similar belief some of the schools had anticipated their revenue. The Havelock school had done go ; they Had engaged a master at £l5O. but had they knpwnthat - they ' "would riotT get~ _ these’ monies, he thought it very unlikely that they would have undertaken the responsibility. In .18159 the Government gave the schools over to the district to maintain, but afterwards took their household rate from thbni, and they were consequently £SO in debt; Mi* Rutland would move that the items stand as they were, and that the debts due by the Board should be dealt with by a grant, in aid. Mr Conolly said no Board Could come to the Council to ask for a grant in aid with a worse

grace than Havelock, which had passed an education i-ate at ,[d only, and a road rate at 3d ; while Picton had levied Id for education, and -Id for roads.

M r Sinclair said it came with a bad grace from the last speaker to allude to the inability of Havelock to rate itself adequately, since it had not had a tenth nor a twentieth part of the money which had been spent on Picton to set it on its legs. Perhaps it would be found willing and able presently, when it became more fairly established. He did not like to see a sneer at them by a Government which was seeking to absorb education funds to pay their own salaries. Picton happened to consist of 9-10ths of absentees—[M r Conolly : No.] —well, say one-half, then. They taxed themselves high to get the money out of the absentees, but he thought it was only fair that as the residents got the benefit th y should pay for it. Before upbraiding Havelock with seeking charity they should give it its rights. Ho could not agree with Mr Rutland, as he considered that Havelock, like Blenheim, was entitled to its rights, and he pleaded that it should not thus be robbed for the bouelit of officials. M r Does [-IN said the rate was fixed at ,jd because at the time it was levied they were led to believe they would get the publicans’ licenses, otherwise they ■would have rated themselves higher, but now the only way of getting over the difficulty was getting the £l2O due to them. Mr Rutland said it would only be fair for the Government to take up all the liabilities. Mr Robinson would support the amendment on the same principle as he had before stated. All the quibbles, were so much humbug, as he had been told out of doors how the late division would go, because there was to be a sort of logrolling afterwards, and they would soon see how it would come to a bead after what the last speaker had let out. How any member could vote for the absorbing by the Government of the '■ bionics to pay their own salaries he could not understand. Had they come down with a proposal stating that they had not enough money to pay themselves, without taking the money belonging to the poor schoolmasters, the Council would have found a remedy.

Mr Ward said the reason of the vote was because the principle of the Bill was founded on injustice, as he had told them last session when passing it. [Mr Robinson : Wc did not bring it in ; it was the Government’s measure.] If the Government brought it in, those who voted for it were as bad. The Wairau Board had reckoned up all they could get, and still they would not he able to meet their liabilities. They had reckoned on £IOO, and now they were not to have even that. He was prepared now to vote money sufficient to keep on the schools, otherwise they must stand as they wore. Before voting against the amendment he was still prepared' to vote the money. A division ensued as follows : Ayes, 5 : Messrs Blick, Hodson, Robinson, Sinclair, and Dousliu. Noes, 9 : Messrs Seymour, Conolly, Ingles, Coulter, Western, Rutland, Paul, Ward, and Dodson.

Mr Douslin moved another amendment that the item he increased to £9O, for they were deep in debt, and did not see their way out of it. Mr Rutland would move another amendment, that a sum he voted to the Havelock Board, and asked the last speaker to withdraw his motion. Mr Douslin declined to do so.

Mr Coulter here drew attention to the Standing Orders, which prevented another amendment being put after this had been decided.

Mr Sinclair said he spoke on the principle, and would vote for no modification, but either the full sum to which the County was entitled or none.

The Superintendent said it had become clear to his mind that some middle course must be struck out. The fairest plan would be that between the 30th June and 12th September it was claimed, with some show of justice, that the Boards had to maintain the schools. If the Council would pass the items as they stood, the Government would take the liabilities to the 12th September. If the members would state what these were, and they were found to be fair and just, they would be paid. The amendment was put, and went to a division. Mr Douslin was alone for, and Mr Robinson declined to vote. On the original motion being put, Mr Sinclair was the only No. On the item “County of Picton,'£4s,” being put, Mr Sinclair was alone against it, on the oround that it was not enough. Item carried. a Mr Dousein moved that the item, “Pelorus, £5,” bo increased to £2O, as that sum had been paid. 'Phe Superintendent accepted the amendment, as ho believed the amount of the difference was on its way to the Treasury from a party at Canvastown.

Mr Sinclair had intnded to move an amendment, having in view the circumstance that the Board had anticipated its income, relying on the Government carrying out the purpose of the Council evinced at last session. Amendment carried.

On “ County of Kaikoura, £98,” Mr Sinclair moved an amendment that it be increased to £ll3, as, although a member for the Wairau, he represented the whole Province there, and he would like to keep good faith with his constituents. The proposal would have come with a good grace from the member for Kaikoura, Mr Ingles, but being a member of the Government he supposed he did not think fit, and therefore he (Mr Sinclair) moved it. In carrying out the Act they should not rob the schoolmasters to pay their officials. Mr Ingles said that he knew the opinions of the public in his district, and they did not want it believing they were not entitled to it. ’Mr Robinson said, after what he had heard fall from the Executive, were he a member of an Education Board he would not incur the risk of a sixpence of liability. They had been told over and over again by some members that the Act was unfair, and liable to be upset at next session. Individual members did their best to support Education, while others who had opposed it for the last eleven years would do their utmost to oppose this Act, and he did not doubt but they would find a hole in it somewhere, and they would find the licenses taken away from them before long.

A division was taken as follows : For, 4: Messrs Blick, Hodson, Robinson, and Sinclair. T _ Against, 10 : Messrs Seymour, Conolly, Ingles, Coulter, Western, Rutland, Paul, Ward, Dodson and Dousliu. Mr Hodson asked the Government to place the sum of -£127 on the Bill for the County of Wairau. The Superintendent said the Government could not consent to put in the item proposed, hut would consider the bill intact, as far as it went ; any other course would make them acknowledge themselves liable for the liabilities, which they could not do. The Superintendent moved that the blank “Repairs to Roads and Bridges” be tilled in with .£3OO. They bad not been able to do as much work as they wished ; Spring Greek bridge had required more doing to it than they had anticipated. The Opawa Bridge needed some sort of protective works to enable them to get over the winter ; and ho had already been compelled to exceed the votes under this head by £240 for which he had issued special orders. He would require also, a sum to repair the Pelorus Bridge, which was not in any County. Mr Sinclair moved that the sum be increased to £OOO, and was sorry the Superintendent bad not placed himself in the hands of the Council, to vote a sufficient sum to cover all necessary purposes. Ho would draw their attention to the dangerously bad state of the Omaka Bridge, which was°not the property of the Borough, and bo did not think it would bo in accordance with the law to transfer a rotten bridge. If they voted for his motion, they would then have no reason for refusing to put the bridges in repair, which sadly needed it, especially the approaches of the Opawa Bridge. Mr Rutland would like to have the sum increased, and under the name of “Public Works ” as there was some works required in his district, to he paid for in laud, which could not well bo placed under that heading, as they exceeded the sum allowed by the Laud Act, which did not go above £l5O. The Superintendent said the Government could have no objection to increase tho vote because he did not think it probable that before the Council again met, they would he able to handle much money. The Pelorus Bridge was in a very bad state, and dangerous, for which they were liable, and there was another on the gold-field near Deep Creek, which required attenl ion ; also, one at the top of High -street, was not entirely paid for. Land had been given for some works, but still there was expense entailed. As to the Roads under tho jurisdiction of County Boards, the Government could not meddle. Mr Ward thought tho Government ought to know their own business best, and therefore he would vote against the amendment. [Mr Hodson ; What county was Spring Creek Bridge in ?] It was not named in the Roads Act, hut it was in a very had state, and tho Superintendent would need to he indemnified for what he had done at it. He allowed that something ought to bo done to the Omaka Bridge, and ho would vote for some money to he expended on it, if they had it to spare, hut would rather have tho money handed over to tho Borough Council to expend, than have the G overnment do it. Mr Conolly would oppose the amendment as being unnecessary, and it was generally considered that a Government put down at least as much as needed. Members who were absent having been asked to meet for a special purpose to convey tho licenses, would not expect them to undertake the care of those things. If after this amendment had been passed, nothing was done to the Omaka bridge, they would appear to have neglected their duty, hut he would not he a party to reverse the decision relative to it, come to after long debates on the Roads Act, with anything less than a distinct vote of the whole Council. Mr Sinclair said ho was not aware that he deserved any rebuke, since he found the heading “ Roads and Bridges” in the Bill before them, so that it was not ho who introduced a foreign subject, and it was unfair to reproach tho opposition with it. The Superintendent said ho would prefer to sec the item as it stood, being only what was actually necessary. The amendment was then withdrawn.

The Superintendent said he wished to put in a new heading “ Liabilities cf Schools from July Ist to September 12th, 1870,” and invited members to state what these would amount to. Some of the members said this was different to the condition offered by the Superintendent, and on which the items had been passed. A brief interregnum occurred, after which Mr Robinson said that from conversations which he had had with some of the members, lie believed they had not understood the exact position when he made his amendment on the first item, and had now altered their minds. He would therefore move that the stim voted be £517, and apportioned in the following way ; Blenheim £l5O ; Town of Picton £9O ; Havelock £6O ; Wairau £127 ; Awatere .£‘ls ; Kaikoura -tls ; County of Picton 15 ; Pelorus £ls. This was in fact the sums due to the several bodies which they were entitled to from Publicans’ licenses from July Ist, and would place all on an equal footing. Mr Conolly said this would be undoing all they had done ; he doubted whether the mover was in order in bringing forward such a motion, and he would ask the Council if they meant this, He really could not imagine they did. The Superintendent proposed they should pay two and a half months expenses of the several schools, which he thought sufficient, and hoped they would not go back on what they had done. Mr Robinson said the County of Wairau was omitted from the Bill altogether, and the effect of his amendment was to place all the Education Boards on the same footing. Mr Sinclair said that as one of the members for the Wairau, he quite agreed with what had fallen from the last speaker. Mr Rutland asked how the Government proposed to divide the .£350 proposed by the Superintendent. The Superintendent said they would send to the several Boards and get in vouchers for the expenses incurred during the two and a half months from 30th June last year. A division was then taken as follows .Ayes s—Messrs Blick, Hodson, Robinson, Sinclair, Douslin. Noes B—Messrs Seymour, Conolly,

Indies, Goulter, Western, Paul, Ward, Dodson. The amendment being lost, the motion was carried. The total of the appropriation .£937 being passed, the Bill passed through its stages, and was carried. [We are obliged to leave over the rest of the proceedings until nc*t week.]