Gore Presbyterian Church.

Mataura Ensign, Volume 14, Issue 1023, 17 October 1890, Page 12

Gore Presbyterian Church.

♦ THE VACANT CHARGE. The Presbytery of Soutuland met in the Gore Presbyterian Church on Tuesday evening, to moderate in a call. — Sederunt : Rev. J. Blackie (moderator), Dr Copland, Revs. H. Kelly, P. R*»msay, J. M. Davidson, and J. Farguson. Every seat in the church was filled when proceedings were commenced about 8 p.m., with the usual devotional exercises. The Rev. J. Blackie delivered a brief discourse, the leading idea of which was the necessity for every person s 'riving to attain perfection, and main* taking a high ideal. The duty of miniscers was to fashion their lives after the likenesß of their God, and so hold up Christ to their fellow men, and he hoped that, in seeking a minister, the congregation would obtain a man who would hold up graoe before them, so that they might grow in knowledge and live good lives. After the singing of a hymn, | Mr Ferguson explained briefly how the Presbytery had considered the reI quest made to them some time back to | moderate in a call premature, and had 1 determined to leave the matter in the t bauds of the congregation. He then outlined the circumstances whioh led the Moderator of the Southland Presbytery to declare that the congregation had a right to proceed in a call, and explained that rather than cause any further delay, it had been [ considered wisest to proceed at once. Mr Ferguson then read the nsual form of call, blanks being left for the filling in of the name of the minister who might be determined on. He also explained who were entitled to vote. The Moderator asked for nominations, and Mr L. Coutts proposed that Mr McKee'B name be inserted in the call. — Mr Robert Matthews seconded the proposition. Mr A. Aitken proposed that Mr Asher's name be inserted,— Seconded by Mr Gardner. Objection was taken to the seconding of Mr McKee'a nomination by Mr Matthews, on the ground tbat the latter was not an adherent. Mr McAlister thereupon seconded Mr Coutts' motion. There being no other nominations, Mr Ferunson called for a show of hands for Mr MoKee, but Dr Copland said M the amendment ought to be put first. Mr Ferguson said that when he oame down here he fully understood that he was coming among a very wise and learned congregation, but the law of the church was that motions ahould be put in the order in which they were proposed, ! Dr Copland said the praotice of the churoh here had been to take amend' menta first. Mr Ferguson read the rule bearing on the subject, and i The Moderator held that motions | should be taken in the order in which ! they were proposed. I Mr Coutts' motion in favor of the I name of Mr McKee being filled in, | was then put, and the voting was as i under :— I For. Against, i Members ... .;. 13 47 Adherents ... ... 12 16 Mr Ferguson then said that Mr Asher's name would be filled in the call, and asked the people to come forward and sign the dooument. The Moderator explained that all were invited to sign the call, even those who voted against Mr Asher. ' At this stage a number of the congregation left the building, while Mr Asher's supporters went forward and gave in their signatures. When all had again resumed their seats Mr L. Coutts banded in 1 a docuI ment to Mr Ferguson, and a number of the congregation who bad been in the vestry came back into the church and again, took their places. The Moderator then attested tbe signatures to the cal], whioh numbered 74 members and 18 adherents. He asked if there were any dissents. Mr Coutts said he dissented and handed in his reasons. Mr Ferguson read the document handed to him by Mr Coutts, which as follows : We, the undcrsignad members of the congregation ofGore, dissent from the^call to Mr Asher : 1. Bricaase only an informal meeting of thu congregation was heM, and at it only the candidates who hai beeu heard ware voted for ; aud farther, because the P rea bytery calling a mue'iug to moderate in a call at this lime is premature, many of tbe I congregation not yet being prepared to call any of tho'cßti-hdites beard, 2. Because a minister of mon? experience th n Mr Asber is nqiired tor tbeir minister, 9. Bcaase the oiembero present Jid not sufficiently reptet-ent tbe congregation, *i_iijli nas 190 wt-moera on the toll, i,. because a haimomous settlement will ; more likely be attained by the congregation hearing more candidates. The dissent was signed by Mr C>u tn, and the Rev Ferguson asked if any others who dissented wou id come foi ward and sign. Tue following m tubers and ad* hurt-uts then uigiird the dissent : il«f8i« J <ni«i B •<»• ie, McAl'sler, Jas S'lv.m. S mue G'*ot, U»vid L>ttle f Si>» Gi •*»! ,Mr Ly ie, Mns Oiutte, Mi-»a Wuiwuij-u.iiu, Mr J '.h» C*lder. Airs Fu;a on, Mra Cou ts, Mr and lira M trau. M am-* J, McEvin, R. Mutthewu, M. McL-an, D. Wiluoo md Miss M.niii, uuking in ail 11 in 'inbnrß and 9 udiier. nts. Mr Fergus. >n aid t hyy should now cousider the o-uau ut dit<senr. The m»tter mi^ht be rfrvd to >th« Piesbytety a' In vercargill or might go :on now. ' Wx Davidson proposed that the

cause be left for two Sabbaths in the vestry in order to afford opportunity for dissentients to attach their signatures. Mr Kelly though^ one Sabbath would be sufficient. Dr Copland seconded the Bey. Davidson's proposal, as he thought that course would be best in the interests of all partita. It would give an op. portunity to those who were not. present to show their minds, and in tbe case of a call it was the custom to cave the document for signature for two Sabba hs. In ,this case, when there was a paper of dissent, he thought the same opportunity should be given. Mr Ferguson interjected that the Synod would be in session at Danedin at tbe expiration of the fortnight. Dr Copland said there would be no difficulty in taking the matter into consideration during an adjournment of the Synod and those who dUsehted could be represented and state any further objections. He would suggest that both the call and the dissent be left in the vestiy for signature fo«* two Sabbaths and that consideration of the matter be left to the Presbytery at Dunedin on Wednesday, 29th October, at 3 p.m. Mr Davidson agreed to amend his motion as suggested. Mr Ferguson opposed the motion. Had the call been signed by 17 more members it could have been sustained at once. He thought they should hear now what the dissentients had to say. The church at Gore had boen rent by factions for six years past, Dr Copland objected to that state' ment. Such had not been the oase during his two years' residence in Gore. (Applauße.) Mr Ferguson: I was speaking of Gore as a wbole. Dr Copland : I referred to the congregation attending here. Mr Ferguson said tbat the Presbyterian community in Gore had been for six yeara rent by 'factions, and what was wanted was unity. Let them now whilst the dissentients were present examine their grievance*), endeavor to arrive at harmony and bind the whole community in Christian unity. (Applause.; They had been so long ac ill will that the very name of Gore was a terror to the Presbytery. IVlc Ramsay rose to a point of order. This was a Presbytery meeting. Mr Ferguson said that all who did not wish to hear what he had to say could go outside. His contention was that now all were present it would be better to deal with the question and arrive at a conclusion. If they did that it would be the best night's work ever done in Gore. He suggested that the dissentients might first of all meet in conference with the Presby* tery, Mr Ramsay agreed in the main with Mr Ferguson and thought the question bad better be settled at once, Mr Kelly said the dissentients were now represented, but if the matter were referred for determination at Invercargill or Dunedin it was a question how many would be present. Now was tho time to settle the question. The breach would only widen, He would seoond Mr Ferguson's suggestion to deal with the dissent at once. The amendment was then formally proposed and seconded by Messrs Ferguson and Kelly, Mr Davidson did hot agree with the amendment because he was not sure that all dissent could be ended bere. No one more than he wanted to see harmony established, but he saw no occasion to press the question now, He was a great lover of fair play, and thought the oall would pro3per best by every latitude being given for full consideration. — (Applause.) After some conversational dis. cussion, Dr Copland questioned if the amendment would hold good. The object of the motion was to ascertain the full number of those in favor of the c<*ll and those against.' The amendment would close the proceedings, and give only the opinion of a part of those entitled to a vote. Mr Ramsay said the reasons of disßent were before them ; it was not she people tbe Presbytery bad to deal with. Mr Kelly said the law of the church only contemplated dissent on the spot, and disseatienta should be present. Ihe amendment was then put and carried, Messrs Kelly, Ramsay, and Ferguson voting for ib and Mr Davideon and Dr Copland against. Mr Coiitts was then called upon to state his grounds of diflsent, and he replied that they were set out in the paper handed io. There was some discussion on various points of church law, and Mf Coutts waa called upon again to btate his grounds of dissent. Mr Coutts said he had nothing: to add to what was written down, but pointed out that many of the dissentients had left the meeting. However, he maintained that it would be unwise for -the majority •to try to , force the minority — and he acknowledged he was in a minority— especially in view of the face that when there was f r>*cfn*lya majority — of which he was , one^— in favor of Mr .Spence. they had not tried io force the then minority. [ He thought thet© should be the two babbatbs given for the dissentients to record tbeir names. Mr Beattie, the next dissentient uignatory on the list, was called upon, nnd be pointed out that a number < f • iasen ieota had gone aWBy. Over 30 nnniHii h-id be?n signed to the diss«nt in the VHFtry and m^ny more names would have been given in had the prtople been aware of tae oppor unity *ffotded them. He urged that more ime should ba giv^n seeing that, tho c .ll was nothing like unanimous. He thought a man of greater experience than Mr A«her was required at the prti«iPntj Unci ure nnd, personally speaking, he would rat ber see some other t,h*u either of the two suggested *ppoiu'ed. For the sake of peace, and harmony he thought the matter had better by deferred for a fortnight. it,

Several ether members who had signed the disstnt ware called upon to give reanonsiu support, bus a<a<3d that they were fully set out in the document handed in. Mr Forguron spoke upon the reasons for d ssent stated in the paper. He laid he had admitted at tho opening of Lhe meeting that the congregational meeting had been informal, and if any O'jec'.ion was to be made oh that ground it ough to have been made then. Waa it true that no o her candidates than those he*rd had been called upon to preach 1 As to the minister wanting experience he did not oonsider tbat any obj 'Ction at all. As to the obj ction thit the members pre* sent did not sufficiently represent the congregation, he pointed out that the rules ot the church provided for this. In order to Bhow what bad transpired at the other meeting he Would call Dr Copland and Mr Gardner to prove. He said that in order that Mr Beattie and tbe others might know what he intended to do. It was moved by Mr R unsay : That the call and the dissent lie in the vestry in charge of the Session for two 8ab«« baths and then be referred to the Presbytery. Mr Davidson seconded the motion, and said that reasons might be disposed of by ingenuity, but those that had been brought forward appeared to him to be stifficie'n't. The motion was then pub and carried, Dr Copland voting for it with the mover and seconder against Messrs Ferguson and Kelly. Mr Ferguson said he would intimate then that the call and the dissent would lie in the J vestry for two Sabbaths in charge of the Session, and he would at once hand the documents over to Mr Gardner. It should be I understood that signatures o uld only , be attached on Sabbaths or at prayer meetings, and the papers were not to go out of the building, excepc to a'bedridden person. Mr tUnisay thought everybody should have ample opportunity of signing. In the case of his own 1 oil he knew that the p*per had been taken ! round for signature, arid he thought every chance should be given to all the congregation to record their opinion. i Dr Copland considered that' the [ restriction was quite right. It would not do to have tu^se documents ha to ked from house to house, Mr Ramsay said it was customary to give every opportunity for arriving at the mind of the congregation, and he knew of no rnle of the church Which forbade a call being taken away from the church. .' Mi Fdrguson agreed that every opi portunity should be given for obtaining signatures, but the manner in which they should be obtained was guided by " use and wont." Mr Ramsay again asked Mr Fergason to show any law uf the church bearing on the question, but Mr Ferguson said it waa merely a matter of custom. Mr Kelly thought no one^ith a grain of self-respect would give twopence for signatures obtained by a document being hawked about^M Intimation was given tW^this closed the proceedings, and the con. gregation dispersed.