PARLIAMENTARY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume LXV, Issue 7863, 19 May 1886, Page 4

PARLIAMENTARY.

[Peb Pbebs Association.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, May 18. Tile Hon P. (Buckley, in reply to the Hon' R. Hart, [said the Government at present did not 'see their way to take off theils duty existing on imported sulphur. . TheHonP. Buckley, in reply to the E.Hart, said hehoped shortly to place book containing the speech of the Premier,.' delivered at the 'closing of the Industrial Exhibition, in the hands of the mem.,;. hers. >'• ■ 1 - ■/ The Hon J. Vf. Babnicoat moved adoption of the report of the Committee appointed! to draw up the Address' in Reply, to the Governor’s Speech,, and in doing so expressed the belief that the Speech would meet with the approval of] all classes of the community. He expressed the .opinion that the Colony was l one of the most loyal in the British; With regard to the paragraph dealing with the Native race, he could nob refrain pom saying that the people at Home hjad lent too willing an ear to the tales of j cruelty practised, or alleged to be practised, against the Native race by the colonists, and he could not help* referring to the way in which a distinguished colonist had recently vindicated! the honour of the colonists in thro direction he had indicated. Th® time was fast approaching when the two races would be one. Alluding to the depression existing in the Colony, he considered that the special settlements would have the effect of reducing the depression. He thought the Colony was indebted to the Government for the manner in which they had brought the manufactures and products of the Colony before the Old World by presenting products of the country in the Indian and Colonial Exhibition. The paragraph dealing with the advisability of fostering local industries was a most comprehensive one, and deserved the gravest consideration of the Legislature. It was highly desirable that the land should be farmed, but it was still more desirable that the local industries should be fostered. It was particularly gratifying that the Inland Railway line / would be constructed without adding to the indebtedness of the Colony. It was also matter for congratulation that, not-

withstanding the depressed state of England, capitalists had come forward with funds with which to build this line. This, lie considered, spoke volumes for the credit of the Colony. The measures which the Government intimated as being their intention to bring forward this session were, he was glad to say, not likely to add to the already cumbersome Statute Book of the Colony, but rather the reverse. He had much pleasure in moving the adoption of the report. The Hon S. E. Shrimski seconded the motion for the adoption of the report, and expressed the opinion that the naturalised subjects of Her Majesty had great reason to be proud and thankful for the great blessings which had been conferred on them; nor were the blessings which had been conferred on them during Her Majestys reign confined to Her Majesty’s natural and naturalised subjects alone, _ as the Maoris bad also received the blessings of civilisation, which had been increased during the Queen’s reign, whose jubilee would be celebrated within the next twelve months. He desired to congratulate the Colony on the prosecution of the Great North Trunk Railway, which would have the effect of increasing the trade between . Auckland and Wellington, and thereby doing away with the many local jealousies which, he regretted, at present existed. He was glad to notice the fact that the Government intended to foster local industries, as he believed that this would have the effect of making people more dependent on their resources. With regard to the paragraph in the Speech referring to the South Sea Islands, he trusted Government would not seek to annex the islands referred to for the mere sake of trading purposes. The measures to be brought down, according to the Speech of His Excellency, were few, but he doubted not that there were a number of Bills which would be brought down, and which, he had no doubt, would receive the gravest consideration of the Council. He desired to second the motion. The motion was put and carried. On the motion of the Hons P. Buckley and Colonel Brett, a number of Sessional Committees were appointed. The Hon P. Buckley gave notice of motion to introduce the following Bills : Police Force Bill and Defence Bill. The Council adjourned at 3 p.m. to the following day. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, May 18. AFTERNOON SITTING. The House met at 3.30. Mr Taylor, the new member for Sydenham, took the oath and his seat. He was introduced by Messrs Walker and O’Callaghan. The Hon J. Ballance gave notice to move the introduction of the Native Lands Administration Bill. QUESTIONS. Replying to Dr Newman, whether the Minister of Public Works will arrange that henceforth all the railway carriages and trucks to he used on the railways in the Provincial district of Wellington shall b© manufactured at Petone, the Hon E. Richardson said it would lead to a very unnecessary expenditure, and the work could not be properly performed. Replying to Mr Hnrst, whether Government have yet determined the route of the proposed Helensville extension railway, the Hon E. Richardson said the route had not been altered since he made his Public Works Statement last session. THE NEW HEBRIDES. Sir G. Grey asked whether the Government would set apart an early day for the consideration of the question of handing ISwer the New Hebrides to France. V The Hon R. Stout said he would set apart Wednesday for the purpose. Sir G. Grey then gave notice of a resolution in connection with the subject for next sitting day. Major Atkinson asked whether all the papers ip connection with the subject had been laid! on the table. The Hon R. Stout replied that some of the papers were confidential, and could not be laid on the table. He said he had informed Sir George Grey that it was not the proper way of dealing with the subject, and it should be referred to a Select Committee. Sir George Grey moved the adjournment of the House. He said the House was entitled to have all the papers laid on the table, and contended that he had taken the proper course in giving notice of Ms resolutions. His -mind was filled with alarm when he heard that those confidential despatches were withheld from the House. He spoke at some length on the whole question of giving the New Hebrides to France, and said that the whole of the Colonies should unite and enter a protest against the wrong proposed to be done to them. The motion for adjournment was not seconded. NEW BILLS. The Hon R. Stout introduced the Municipal Corporations Bill and Counties Bill. The usual sessional Committees were appointed. The following is the text of the resolutions which Sir G. Grey gave notice to move to-morrow: — “That New Zealand does not claim to have established any rights over the New Hebrides, except such as arise from the exertions continued through many years to make provision for, and assist in, the education and civilisation of the inhabitants of those islands, and from the fact that she has always maintained that she will not annex or federate with any of those islands, except upon the previous application and well ascertained consent of the inhabitants thereof; and that she _ has established, and for a long time maintained, commercial and friendly relations with the several said islands. “That whatever claims in relation to these islands may have arisen from such causes. New Zealand should continually endeavour to increase, by steadfast persistence in the same line of conduct, and by always protecting the rights and interests of the New Hebrides islands and the welfare of their people; and this House will, so far as lies in its power, hand down this line of policy, and any rights accruing therefrom, unimpaired to the future inhabitants of New Zealand. “That New Zealand has no power or right to agree to any of these islands being ■ taken possession of in the manner proposed by any foreign Power, and will not directly or indirectly assent to any such action, which she believes would be a cruel and immoral one. “ That, having no right to sanction such a seizure or occupation of the New Hebrides, she will neither claim nor accept any equivalent or concession in return for what she conceives would be an unjust act. “ That this House cannot think that the necessities of the foreign policy of the British Empire can demand that the concessions so unjust to friendly and inoffensive people as those which are proposed should be made by Great Britain to any other Power, nor can this House understand on what ground a right is attributed to Great Britain to dispose of the lands, properties, and destinies of the friendly people, who are ignorant of what is being done. “That this House regrets that any nation should, in the present state of the Pacific, have adopted the policy of transporting a large number of criminals to the islands of the Pacific, a policy which is certain to entail great evils upon the Native inhabitants, ‘and upon British > Colonies in their vicinity, and this House regrets this, as France is a r nation with which the people of New Zealand desire to maintain most friendly relations. “That* this House, for reasons already

stated as those which prevent it entering into any proposal for handing the New Hebrides over to Prance, cannot entertain the proposal of that Government to the effect that France will cease the transportation altogether in the Pacific if she is allowed to have the New Hebrides, “That this House deeply regrets that subsequently to that proposal having been made by the French Ambassador to ths English Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, he should have intimated to the British Government that a large number of French convicts would be sent to the Isle of Pines during the year 1886. “That this House will not, either to gain any proffered advantage or to escape from any threatened evil, depart from the line of policy it has resolved to pursue. .“That a loyal address be presented to the Queen embodying the foregoing resolutions, and praying that Her Majesty may take such steps as may prevent the inhabitants of Australia and New Zealand and the Islands of the Pacific from being prejudiced in this matter.’’ The House rose at 3.25 p.m. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. THE ADDRESS IN REPLY. Mr Bevan moved—“ That a respectful address be presented to His Excellency the Governor, in reply to the Speech which His Excellency has been pleased to make to both Houses.” He said he would be expressing the feeling of all his fellowcolonists in endorsing that portion of the Speech which related to the illustrious son of'Queen Victoria, and he thought they should unite with the rest of the Colonies in paying some tribute to the great event of the Queen’s jubilee.' He also endorsed that portion of the Speech referring to the condition of the Native race, and said they should all feel gratified at the peaceful condition of that race. In -connection with thissubject,he couldnothelp complimenting the hon gentleman who had gone to a distant country to vindicate his honour in connection with the Native affairs over which he formerly presided. He thought the whole Colony would join in congratulating that hon gentleman on the verdict he had obtained over his accuser. He looked upon the present depression as the outcome of the great commercial reform which was at present taking place; but he was glad to say that New Zealand had not been brought face to face with the squalid poverty which was felt in other countries. He looked forward with great hope to the progress of our national industries, and thought the Colonial Exhibition now being held in London would materially help those industries. It was gratifying to find that our gold exports exceeded .£42,000 more last year than the previous year, and the coal exports were also steadily increasing. He was glad to see that, notwithstanding the depression, the finances of the Colony were sonnd. He ventured to assert that the fact of British capitalists taking np the construction of the East and West Coast Railway would stand as a monument to the zeal and in-, tegrity of the present Ministry. He heartily congratulated the Colony that this great work had been undertaken in the manner in which it had been. He was satisfied that in extending the powers of the local bodies they should be increasing the national wealth of the country, as there were millions of acres of land yet available for settlement. He thought the liberality of our land laws was hardly understood by the mass of the people. It was very desirable they should be better understood, so that people would be prevented from leaving the country, and learn under what conditions they could remain and become good settlers. He contended that by extending our railways into the forests, there was a magnificent source of wealth in the timber alone. He commended each member of the present Ministry for the indefatigable zeal they had shown in developing the resources of Now Zealand and promoting the happiness of its people. He hoped their deliberations would result in the good of their country, and establish peace and prosperity among the people. _ Mr Taylor seconded the motion. He commenced by stating that the reason why he seconded the Address was because he considered the present Government was a Liberal Government, and held similar views to those he held. He hoped Government would extend the question of local industries to railway workshops, and also hoped that in constructing the railways the portion of the country which he represented would have its fair share of expenditure. He agreed with the Government in their proposals for the settlement of the land; but he thought the special settlements scheme should be introduced, which would be very beneficial to the country. Major Atkinson said he should not have risen to speak if it were not to ask hon members whether the time had not arrived when they should cease to make an Address in Reply the battle ground of party politics. He saw no good resulting from ■the custom- they had pursued, but it was rather a waste of time. He hoped, if the Government remained on the benches another session, they would see whether the Address in Reply could not he formally taken. He did not intend to debate the Address, because there was nothing in it to discuss. He thought the omission to refer to the representation question was not justifiable, and the country would say Government had made a mistake in that matter. He warned the Government that they would not get much business through this session until they told the House they intended taking up this question. He submitted that the Government, in presenting such a speech to the House, was slighting Parliament, especially as each member of the Ministry had publicly stated that they had well-matured schemes to bring down. He was not going to help Government in the terrible fix into which they had got. He said if Government were going to abandon the roads they would be making a fatal mistake. If railways were made without roads they would be worse than useless. It was utterly impossible to settle the country without making roads to feed the railways. The object which the Premier had in framing the speech was, no doubt, to conceal his thoughts. He had succeeded admirably in bringing down a speech which expressed nothing. No doubt he (Major Atkinson) had done something of the same kind himself. It was a most fortunate thing that in the 50th year of Her Majesty’s reign the Native race should he in such a satisfactory condition. He should not have spoken were it not stated that the Opposition were not admitting anything; for these he considered the grave matters of administration, which would have to he sifted to the bottom. He hoped the House would have the Financial Statement and Public Works Statement as soon as possible, so that they could see what position they were in at as early a period as possible. The Hon R. Stout said he did not think it wise to abolish Governor’s Speeches, for he considered those old forms served some useful purpose. It was well" pointed out by Mr Gladstone that speeches of this kind served to map out the business which was to come before the House, and he agreed with that statement. He contended it would not have been proper to deal with the question of representation before they knew what the population of the Colony was; but he would say that if the returns were received, and it was found, the representation required adjustment. Government would not be-found wanting in the matter. He was not going to be drawn by the member for Bgmont to say what the policy of the Government in regard to the roads was to be. As for the condition of the Natives, he ventured to say there was at present a better and kindlier feeling towards Europeans than for a long time past. The law was also respected by

Natives all over the Colony. He said the policy of the Government would he brought down as early as possible, but he could not say with certainty when the Public Works Statement and Financial Statement would be ready. He admitted that Major Atkinson had dealt very kindly with the Government, but he thought that he could not have done anything else, for if the leader of the Opposition could not find anything worse to find fault with than representation and roads, then the country would admit there was not much to object to in the policy of the Government. Mr Wakefield said that in all his experience he had never, heard a bettertempered debate on the Address in Reply than the one they had just heard, and he hoped the same tone would continue to the end of the debate. He thought Major Atkinson’s remarks were misunderstood by the Premier. He said his (Major Atkinson’s) contention was that by accepting the Address in Reply, it was not to be taken as a tacit admission of the policy of the Government. The present speech made a very good show as a speech, without committing the Government to anything. He thought it reflected on the condition of the Colony, for he never remembered a recess in which there was so little political excitement as the late one. He considered the question of representation was not fairly put, for he remembered in 1881 a compact was honourably made that the re-adjustment of representation would be made in 1887. He accepted the Premier’s promise on the matter, but it would have saved much difficulty and misconception if he had stated in the Governor’s Speech what he had just stated to the House. As to the Native race, he considered the success of the present Native Minister was largely due to the unselfish and disinterested policy of his predecessor. If Government would refuse to flood the House with a mass of legislation which the House could not possibly perform, they would be doing a good work, which would be appreciated by the Colony. Mr J. W. Thomson said that, although the address had been received with a great deal of good humour, they must expect that the administration of Government would be debated during the Session. He thought there had been a great deal of political agitation during the recess ; but, in his opinion, much good had been done by showing that the Colony had not been borrowing, and was more inclined to prudence. He quite agreed that there should not be too much legislation this Session, and hoped a new Land Act, at any rate, would be conspicuous by its absence. As to depression, the - country had been told repeatedly that Government would remove the depression, but they were now told that people must put forth additional exertions to remove it. The consequence was, that the country was looking to the House to help them to lift the depression. Mr Turnbull said the present condition of the Colony was such as to call forth all the energy of the House and Government to remove the depression that prevailed. This depression had been coming on for years and years—he might say from the commencement of the century. The real secret of it was they were not producing anything like the products which they should do from their land. The cause was not altogether from Government borrowing, but from the large amount of borrowing by private individuals. He felt sure if Government had stated that they intended to borrow a sum of money to assist the Colony in the purchase of land for settlement, they would be supported by the country, and would .confer a real benefit on the people. He thought it must be obvious to everyone that the Colony could not go on paying such an enormous rate of interest when so little was produced from the land.

Mr Moss protested against the doctrine laid down by the leader of the Opposition, as to the debate on the Address in Reply. He contended that this was the only opportunity members had of discussing the finances of the country. He ventured to assert that allowing the Speech to _ pass without any real debate, was a tacit admission on the part of the leader of the Opposition that he had no objection to make to the policy of the Government. He took exception to the Native land administration of the Government, and said that in the North Island there was great dissatisfaction with the Native Minister on that score. Strong dissatisfaction was also felt at the increase of Native land departments. There was also grave dissatisfaction at the manner in which purchases have been made for the defence department. He held it would be exceedingly interesting to> Auckland members, especially, if it were shewn where the Maoris were taking an intelligent interest in the colonising operations. He contested the statement that. the finances of the Colony were in a sound condition, and said such a statement should not be put in the Governor’s Speech in face of the facts as they exist. The only way to revive confidence was for the House to take some decided steps to put the finances of the Colony in a sound condition.

Mr Joyce explained that the Premier had not stated at Invercargill that the Government could do nothing to remove the depression, and that they could do nothing to relieve those farmers, whose land was heavily mortgaged. Mr Beetham referred to the speeches made by the Premier and Treasurer during the recess. He said few could find fault with the Premier’s speech at Invercargill, but shortly afterwards the Colonial Treasurer had stated at Wellington that Mr Stout had been misreported. They had not been informed, however, in what respect he had been misreported, and the country did not know whether or not the Premier was in favour of moderate borrowing* Mr J. C. Buckland hoped the time of the House would not be taken up by Bills which had no chance of passing. He referred particularly to such Bills as the Criminal Code Bill, and he hoped the Minister of Justice would, before bringing it down, ascertain whether there would be sufficient time to devote to it. He agreed with the member for Clutha that the country was looking to the House to remove the depression that existed. He himself had had letters from numbers of people on this subject. He contended that the administration of the Government was carried on in far too sly a manner, and would tell the Government that their only chance of continuing on the benches would he by going in for strong retrenchment. The Hon J. Ballance quite concurred that retrenchment was a proper subject to introduce, but he had not heard the hon gentleman refer to the subject before the present session. He was not aware the Civil servants were overpaid, and considered there was no extravagance in the Government Departments. He considered the member for Parnell had taken the right course in criticising Native affairs in the Address in Reply. He (Mr Ballance) had tried to deal with the Maoris precisely as he did with Europeans in matters of land purchase. He had told the House distinctly last session that it was the intention of Government to acquire a block of land for the North Island Trunk Railway, and they had since endeavoured to carry out that promise. The member for Parnell knew that was part of the Government policy, hut whether there had been any corruption or not he did not know. He denied he had told the Natives to keep the whole of their lands in their own possession, hut he also contended it was their duty to provide that Natives did not part with the whole of their estate. He (Mr Ballance) was as much opposed to great Maori landlords as to great white landlords. He defended the purchases made by the Government for defence purposes, and was prepared to lay the whole of the papers on the subject on the table, so that the House could judge whether exorbitant prices were paid or not. He considered th®

debate that evening had been of a most gratifying character, and it showed that the conduct of the Government daring the recess had not affected any just grounds for attack by the other side of the House. Mr Levestam, referring to Mr Wakefield’s remarks, said the North Island members had voted against theEepresention Act of 1881. That Act was not passed by any compact, but under circumstances in connection with the Nelson members which it was not now necessary to go into. Mr W. P. Buckland said he had a good deal of fault to find with the administration of the Government during the recess, and he could not agree with the Native Minister in that respect, _ He did not object to Government buying land, and should like to see them buy all the Native land they could. He would support the Government in resuming pre-emptive right in Native lands. He had a great many indictments against Government. They had taken great pains to damage the Auckland members during the recess, and had represented to their constituents that they would he much better off if their members had not voted for Captain Russell’s motion. He said Government must not think by the present debate that their policy was unchallenged, and he quite agreed with Mr Moss that the finances were in anything hut a sound condition. The motion was then put, and agreed to on the voices. The House adjourned at 10.45 p.m.