PARLIAMENT OUT OF SESSION.
THE PREMIER AT CHRISTCHURCH.
The Prime Minister, the Hon Major Atkinson, addressed the electors of Christchurch find the surrounding district in the Queen’s Theatre, Lichfield street, on Saturday night. An unusually early hour, viz., 7 p*m., had been fixed for the opening of the proceedings, as Major Atkinson had to start for the North by the same evening’s boat. But long before the time appointed, the largo auditorium was closely packed, and when the Treasurer began his address there must have been over 2500 people present. Those on the floor of the Theatre, from the very beginning, appeared inclined to be goodtemperodly, but very determinedly and rather noisily, opposed to anything and everything that fell from the Minister, so that His Worship the Mayor (Mr C. P. Hulbert), who took the chair punctually at 7 o’clock, had occasionally some trouble in dealing with them, and in securing Major Atkinson a hearing. The occupants of the dress circle, through a mysterious process of natural selection, consisted altogether of the quieter portion of the large assemblage; while the highest stage in the refining course was reached in the private boxes, wherein were seated a fair number of ladies. A large number of gentlemen were accommodated with seats on the platform itself, and among them were the Hon Colonel Brett, M.L.C., Messrs White, O’Callaghan and Wakefield, M.H.R.’s, T. S. Weston, R. Westenra, Howland, Chrystall, Mitchell, J. C. Boys, W, D. Meares, Cooke, Moor, Flesher, and Councillors Kiver, Vincent and Reese. On the appearance of Major Atkinson, he was greeted with a storm of boohoos, hisses and applause. His Worship the Mayob introduced the speaker in the following words: —Ladies and gentlemen,—The Hon Major Atkinson wishes to address you to-night on the political position of the Colony. (Applause.) Apart from the fact that the honorable gentleman is a Minister of the Crown, I would remind you that he is a stranger amongst us. (Cries of “ No.”) Well, then, gentlemen, he is a visitor amongst us, and, as such, he commands, I think, our attention and respect. (Applause.) Another reason I would beg to remind you of is that ladies are present here; and I therefore sincerely hope that you will give him a patient hearing. (Applause.) You may disagree entirely with his opinions—(Cries of “ We do”) —and you may express your dissent by resolution, but I think it is unfair, when he comes to give you his opinion on the political position of the Colony, not to give him an attentive hearing. (Applause.) I will ask you, for the honour and credit of the City, to listen to the honorable gentleman to-night. (Applause.) The Hon Major Atkinson then rose, and was greeted by shouts and bootings, which continued for some time. When comparative silence had been restored, he spoke as follows: Mr Chairman [A voice : “ Go it. Major.”] Gentlemen [A voice : “ Ladies and gentlemen.” Roars of laughter.] It is always pleasant, gentlemen—ladies and gentlemen. (Renewed laughter.) I was just saying that it is always pleasant for a public speaker to know that he has got the sympathy of his audience. (Applause and shouts.) Now, after the reception which sonke of you have been kind enough to give me, I may feel convinced that I have your sympathy, so, of course, if I wanted anything to strengthen me in what I have to say, I have received it at your hands. (Interruption.) When times are prosperous, and when the seasons are good, it is very easy to carry on the Government of the Colony, and the Government get a good deal of credit which they ought not to receive ; so, again, when times are bad and the seasons are bad—(Confusion). Gentlemen, I am entirely in your hands; I have come here to give you my opinions of things. If you desire to get the opinions of any of your fellow citizens have them on the stage and let them give them by all means. (Renewed confusion.) Now, my time is entirely in your hands. [A voice: “ We have known you for years.”] So you have, and I am glad to say that the more years people have known me the better they like me. (Laughter and dissent.) Really, gentlemen, if you make so much noise you will be quite hoarse before I have half done, and then I shall get the better of you. (Applause.) I see there are lots of gentlemen here brimful of knowledge, who are only longing to get on the stage and enlighten the world, and you ki particular; but, as I say, let tkem come on the stage. You must protect yourselves (Noise) but let us get on with the business. Express dissent or not, as you please, and as vigorously as you like, (More noise.) I shall be long or short, as I deem necessary, and it will be for you presently to determine whether you have had enough of me. (Applause.) I was just saying that when seasons were good, and times prosperous, it was very easy to govern, and the Government got credit for a great deal they did not deserve, but when times are bad, as they are now, unfortunately, then it is very difficult to govern, and if the Government has been in office any time, people very foolishly grumble at them, and threaten to turn them out. (Cries of, “ We will.”) You may suffer for it if you do. I say that if you become restless, and do not like—[Confusion, and a Voice: “ You are our servant.”] I am your servant, undoubtedly. And now I am going to talk to you like a father, as well as a servant. You must all say that it is not an unmixed blessing in addressing a large audience such times as these; especially, as is the case with this community, although, as I think, quite wrongly, they v think they are suffering from a special injustice. [A Voice: “Through you.”] I am going to talk to you quite plainly. I am going to tell you all my sins and all my virtues ; dot quite all, for I have not time, as I have to go by the steamer to-night. Now, it is not an unmixed pleasure to have to address an audience that is not exactly friendly with you, but, gentlemen, there are occasions when we have to consider things to consider our duty' whether it is pleasant or not. [A Voice: “ Have you done your duty ?”] (Interruption.) I am going to show my honorable friend that I have thoroughly. I do not know whether I shall convince him; for a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. (Applause.) Gentlemen, I felt this state of political pressure in this place, that it was my duty to come and explain some of the things that have been troubling you. Whether you think it wise to do so or not, I do not know. I hai e friends who said it was very unwise, and that the electors would not hear me; that they would censure mo. You can censure me; but if any man does not like to hear me—if you do not desire to hear me, I can go away ; but, at any rate, I leol that I shall have done my duty' as the head of the Government in coining before you. And so now, gentlemen, if you so desire, 1 am willing to explain to you my opinions as to those questions which are agitating your minds. (Applause.) Now, as 1 say, gentlemen, I am going to talk quite plainly to you. I have not come here to ask tor popularity ; I could very soon sot you all cheering in a minute. [Laughter; and a Voi<!o : “ Can you Y ”] Yes, I could, it i were to toll you how unjust the Government wore ; how shamefully they o acted in drawing money from the boutn Island for the North Island. (Ones ot “ wo should not believe it.’’) V ell, unfortunately, people do not believe it. 1 am sorry for them. Now, gentlemen, it has been said that I deny there was any depression. [“ So y’ou have.”] V ell, those gentlemen know all about it, and all about me. With all duo deference to them, I am going to have my own opinion. I
never made such a statement at all. [A Voice: “The reporters were wrong.”] They were wrong to this extent—that they never reported a half of what I said, [lnterruption and cries of “The true half.] Now, gentlemen, do not pxisunderstand me; 1 did not want it to go down. (Applause.) I do not want their good opinion. If they say it is true, by all means tale the benefit of the belief. [A Voice: “ You are not giving facts/’] I venture to any (At this stage of the proceedings a Mr Mathowa, a member of the Salvation Army, endeavoured to address Major Atkinson, amid cries of “ Sit down ! Turn him out.” Undaunted, however, the individual, turning to the meeting, began de novo with the words: ‘ ‘ Gentlemen, I am a determined opponent;” but, amid cries of “Give him fair play,” the Chairman appealed to the meeting for order, an appeal which was at once complied with.) Major Atkinson : Well, gentlemen, I consider I am receiving quite fair play (renewed confusion) ; all the holloaing and hooting will not make the slightest difference to me. As I say, my time is yours; I am quite indifferent, except that such proceedings always go to the speaker’s advantage; fortunately, I am not a man to be at ajl disturbed by it; I can take up the thread of my discourse at any time. We have got as far as going to find out what I did say. (Applause.) What I did say was that there was no depression in the Colony at the present time, which should make us doubt its soundness, or which could materially trench on the savings of the working classes. That is what I said, a very different thing from saying there was no depression at all. (Interruption.) You will have my reasons and conclusions, and you can judge for yourselves how far they are reasonable and wise. [“ How about immigration ? ”] I will come to that presently. We will want a lot more of it. (Disapprobation.) Now, I ask you, gentlemen, what would you think of me if I were to go whining and groaning about the Colony and telling you that there was such a depression that the Colony was practically ruined. [A Voice: “You did so.”] I would like to have those gentlemen up, and I would soon show' them whether I did or not. There is a certain class always impatient when they hear that the truth is being spoken; they cannot bear it, and I am afraid that there are some of that class here to-night. If they do not want what I have to say, why don’t they sit patiently till I have done, and show you the fallacy and what a fool I am. (Cheers.) Well, ladies and gentlemen, I say, what would you have thought of me if I had gone about whining and groaning, and saying that this depression was going to ruin the Colony, if I do not believe it ? I say, with Henry V., on the eve of battle —those men who have all such faint hearts, and don’t believe in their adopted country, had better clear out. [Applause, and a Voice : “ They are clearing out.”] They are not clearing out. I wish those people who are thus talking would clear out and have done with it. (Applause.) Now, a little groaning and hooting is good, and I like it, for it gives a flavour to the whole thing; but we must not have too much of it. I will say why I will not take such a position. I will tell you what I believe to be the position. I believe in the Colony and in the strong aims and indomitable will of the settlers who have made the Colony what she is, and who will carry her on to prosperity if we have only the courage of our opinions. Now it is quite true that there is a considerable depression over this part of the land. (Oh! oh!) Quite true, gentlemen, notwithstanding the groans, that there is a considerable depression, and we want to consider bow it arises and how to cure it. That seems to be our business ; don’t let us go groaning about it. Let us see how it arises and how we can get over it. [lnterruption, and a Voice : “ Give us <£lßo,ooo for the West Coast Eailway.” Applause.] Well, gentlemen, that would be one remedy ; we will consider that presently. For myself I consider it to be very effectual. (Cries of “ Speak out! ”] Now, gentlemen, the times are bad; let us advance another stage, at any rate. Why has this depression arisen ? It appears to have arisen gradually from the contracting of borrowing. [A Voice: “ Sir Julius Vogel.”] I say this arises in a great measure from the contraction of public and private borrowing. [A Voice : “ That is our expenditure,” and cries of “ The Vogel system of Immigration and Public Works has ruined the country.”] The depression has arisen greatly from the contraction of borrowing. [A Voice: “From Sir Julius Vogel.”] I say it has arisen in a great measure from contraction of borrowing, public borrowing and private borrowing. (Interruption.) Gentlemen, if we only had some of this wisdom in the House of Representatives we should be put out of our-difficulties at once. (Laughter and cries of “go on.”) Well, gentlemen, I don’t like to interrupt persons when they are enlightening us. (Renewed laughter.) Now, the contraction of borrowing, both public and private, is one of the great causes of this depression, and the Government are partly responsible for that, as I shall show you presently. Then we have, unfortunately, had very low prices for wool and for grain. By wool we have lost at least .£400,000, and probably more. All that would have been money to spend within the Colony. [A Voice : “Would it have been ? That does not affect the working classes.”] Well, my friend’s political economy is very different from mine if he thinks so. Last year the loss on wool amounted to .£IOO,OOO or A300.0C0, and that would have been available for expenditure, because the expenditure, whatever it might be, would have to come out of it. The spending power of the Colony was so much the less, and this affects all classes. I have little doubt that if wool had not fallen in price the Customs would not have fallen off. [lnterruption, and a Voice: “ Yes, they would.”] I am hero, gentlemen, to give you my opinion. You don’t want me to give you opinions which I don’t celieve. You must judge of what manner of man I am according to my own statements. [A Voice: “You’re a good soldier, but a bad financier.”] I have had a little experience in each, and I leave it for tee public to judge. [A Voice: “ Cut it short.”] I am not going to cut it short; I am hero to have it? out, and say what I think you ought to hear, and, with your permission, I am going to say it whether my friend there likes it or not. Then we have a hilling off—a very serious falling off —in the price of wheat. That also is beginning to tell very seriously, because although the farmers have not sold their grain they know that they have to moot their liabilities, and that is a matter very seriously affecting you in this district. (Interruption.) I’m going to deal with ail these presently. I am not going to shrink from one of them on which you have got mo. [A Voice: “ What do you think of Canterbury ?”] It is not bad. There is also great depression in some of the trades tee building trade notably. This is a trace subject to great vicissitudes, 110 kuc.v that in towns in England the same thing occurs. [A Voice: “Net so bad/'j Money is spent lavishly on buildings until it is overdone, and then the epidemic ceases ; the work passes to other towns, and wiln the work the working men. We trusted to our property which was greatly enhanced by borrowing ; we have overbuilt ourselves, and the consequence is great m the building trade, and so wit h othertram s throughoutthis small community. Nov. .went is onr best way to get out of this depression ? [A Voice: “ Stop borrowing.”] 1 am coming to that. It is quite clear the toa-c thing is—[A Voice : “ Change of Government.”] Dear me, 1 am astonished nt the amount of wisdom 1 hear. (Applause and laughter.) The lint tlrn r we have to do is to renew coal Mom o in ourselves, [Applause and a Voice: “ In
du.-selves—Yes.”] That is the first thing wo have to do. We must renew confidence in ourselves, if you will permit mo to say it. We must not g‘o about with our tail between our legs as some of us are doing. (Applause.) Now a great financial authority has told us this that if the partners in the great house of Overond and Gurney—vou will remember the house which caused groat ruin in Lngland and failod for many millions—if they had only had the same pluck, courage and determination as they had when they wore young men, the firm could not only have surmounted their difficulties, but each partner would have become enormously rich. You will find that, in every case of panic., most of the mischief is caused by men being wanting in courage and confidence in themselves. ( Interruption.) If that moans that it is desirable wo should have no confidence in ourselves —[Cries of “ No,” and a \ oice : “Not in you.” | Never mind about mo. I want you to believe, as those did who came out first to this Colony, that, come what might, they would succeed, and I say you can do it. REMEDIES FOR THE DEPRESSION. There are a groat many remedies proposed for this depression, and I am going to examine three of them. [A "Voice : “ National Insurance.” Laughter.] National Insurance, gentlemen, is a very fine thing, and I am going to talk about that on another occasion. (Kenewcd laughter.) I say there are three proposals that I am going to touch upon, besides a great many olliers that we have heard to-night. (Laughter.l One of the three proposals [A Voice : “ Have you got any money far me ? ” The Premier shook his head, while the audience were convulsed with laughter.! Well now, ladies and gentlemen, there are three proposals. Turn out the Government. (Loud and continued cheering.) There now, gentlemen, did I not tell you that if I only talked the right way I should have you cheering me immediately. (Laughter and applause.) However, I said, “Turn out the Government,” is one proposal; stop borrowing is another proposal ; and the third is to alter the Constitution—[Applause, and a Voice: “ Abolish Centralism.”] this terrible system of Centralism, on which I am going to say a few words to you presently! Now, with regard to turning out the Government, I have very little to say, except this: “ Don’t.” [Laughter, and a Voice : “ It’s worth hundreds a year to you.”] I am not going to say anything about that gentlemen, because the virtues of the Government must be so evident to you, and the advantages derived by the community from them are so great, that I am quite satisfied that you will hesitate a very long time before you commit such a mistake as that. (Laughter and applause.) Very well, having settled that we will go on to the next. proposal—Stop borrowing. [A Voice: “Have an election.”] Yes, we w: ; l have an election, hut I am so used to having elections and to hearing my opponents making wonderful speeches about turning us out, that I don’t think much about it. (Interruption.) You see, gentlemen, they have no faith in their power to turn me out apparently, so they have , to holloa and hoot here. (Renewed disturbance.) Well, let’s get on. The next thing is to stop borrowing. That’s one proposal. I see your great Canterbury leader proposes that. (A perfect storm of cheers.) He says you must stop ton-owing. [A Voice.- “ So does Eollestoa.”] Well, gentlemen, as I said before, to some extent the Government are responsible for this depression; and so they are to this extent. (Confusion.) I have said they are responsible partly, and so they are to this extent—that when they took office they saw that the borrowing was going on at far too fast a rate for our means, and they had the courage to tell the people that they were spending more money per annum than they ought to, and the people responded to that ap- : peal, and, with their approval, the Govern- 1 ment proposed to restrict the borrowing to one million a year. [A Voice : “That was Sir John Hall.”] Well, gentlemen, I am in tins unfortunate position. If I say support the Government as it stands at present, we are made responsible for 1 everything; then, if I mention Sir John Hall, I am met with, “ Oh, you are shelter- j ing yourself under Sir John Hall.” What 1 are we to do ? [A Voice : “ Join the Salva- 1 tion Army.” Eoars of laughter and great 1 confusion.] '• The C hair man : Gentlemen, we are really 1 wasting time. (Applause.) Let us have a 1 Title business now, and I’ll sit here while • we have the fun afterwards. [Cries of ; “ v\ e have had enough.”] If any gentleman has had enough, I hope he will go out. (Applause.) : Major Atkinson : Gentlemen, I am not i here to talk about local things, hut about New Zealand as a Colony. [A Voice; “ No claptrap.”] Perhaps I am nothing else hut clap trap. I see by one of your leading payers that there is nothing else hut clap trap and audacity in me, and that the House of Representatives and the people of New Zealand have been deceived all these years. I am found out to he a hollow financial sham. (Laughter.) But hollow as I am, we shall see whether I cannot draw conclusions with those gentlemen who have found me out. We had the courage to say that borrowing should he restricted, and Parliament adopted our recommendation. Trade did not decrease, and yet £1,000,000 a year less was being spent by the Government, and private borrowing was being restricted. But, if you think what that means, you will see that of necessity hard times must come sooner or Later. The fact of restricting borrowing to £1,000,000 a year has caused this depression, and if you have not the courage to face the hard times,had will go to worse. If you spend no more borrowed money than £1,000,000, and you will have to restrict that, your lives will he harder and the depression will increase. That is one cause of the unpopularity of the Government, because they had to say that one million a year is the utmost we ought to borrow. [A .Voice : “ You invest Government money at 4 per cent and you pay 0 per cent for overdraft” Another Voice : “ Tell ua your policy.”] Well, gentlemen, I am very sorry if you cannot see that this is all my policy. I believe that borrowing must be properly restricted, and wo have had the courage to do it. Don’t deceive yourselves. If the Government or any Government, and the people are foolish enough to listen to it, says we will have two millions or two and ahalf millions a year while we can get it, yon will have great prosjiority while it lasts. Any Government that is wicked enough to do that will easily retain office, because, as I have said, when times are prosperous people are busy getting rich, I but don't trouble themselves about this, that, or the other. (Applause.) Well, gentlemen, those of you who have inade Now Zealand your homo, and who desire your children to become citizens of it, I ask you to consider it seriously. Look ij; in the face, and those who do that will see that nearly all the unpopularity of the Government proceeds from that fact—that they ha ve dared to restrict borrowing during the last few years. (Cries of “ No.”) I ask you to hear this in mind as times go on, and then you will judge for yourselves whether it was wise counsel or not. DECENTRALISATION, Now, wp come to the question of altering the Constitution, and I am told by great authorities that Provincialism—or rather Ccntralism-is the curse of the Colony, and so it is—[A Voice :—“Separation is the best”]—and I am the great apostle of Centralism according to the same authority. Now, gentlemen, I claim to he, and I am going to show you on what grounds I claim to be, the man who has done more for local government than any other man in New Zealand. (“Oh! Oh!”) I ' see some of ray friends hold very strong 1 opinions cm that point. ' Let us look ut 1
what is the real position, and see what it is that those people, who talk in this way, desire.—[ A Voice: “ Separation;”] Well, I will touch upon that directly. Thorenl difference between so-called Centralism and Provincialism is practically nothing more or less than a queatiouas to the size of the divisions of the Colony. The old Provincialists were not all local government men, but supporters of a central Government in a small State. If that is what is meant by Decentralisation, that is quite a legitimate object to strive for. If any people believe that the settlor's of both islands would bo advantaged by sotting up two Governments, one in the North Island and the other in the South, by all means let them do so j but do not let us be deceived by calling it local government; it means Central Government for a small State. I am proud to bo a colonist of New Zealand ; and I shall do my utmost to resist the separation of the two islands. (Loud applause.) I loft England thirty years ago, with the belief that I was going to help at the founding of a nation in these seas. I am not going to give up that hope and see it split up into little petty powers, carrying no respect outside our own borders. (Applause.) We did not come here to found little parishes, but to establish a nation. Suppose you got separation—which I may tell you is an impossibility, for financial reasons—how long would you be satisfied with it ? Where would you have your seat of Government P On the West Coast, or at Nelson? [A Voice: •‘ln Christchurch.”] I understand—in Christchurch. No, no, gentlemen, that is too local a view; wo are now talking of big matters, and I say, think to yourselves, where are you going to have it ? If it was here it might satisfy you, but what would Invercargill, Nelson, the West Coast, and Marlborough think about it ? How could you call that local government ? Directly you did that you would for a certainty have a demand for another separation and another seat of Government. The burden of proof lies with those who desire it, and I ask them to show us how the people are going to be benefited by multiplying the Governments and the Civil Service of the Colony by four or five. (Applause.) This is not a question of local government merely, because yon would have a General Government outside the whole of that. [Disturbance, and a Voice: “ You get all the money.”] And now let me tell you what I have done for local government in New Zealand. First remember that we have our Boroughs. Now, the Boroughs include only about forty per cent of our population, and it is quite clear that they would not be prepared to be taxed to make the main roads in the Counties, and if they did not, is it to be supposed that the ratepayers in the Counties would consent to the Boroughs having power to govern them ? The Boroughs, then, must be made larger for that purpose. Many are here who have looked at this question in all its bearings, and I ask you to say what extra power you desire for your Boroughs? If you can show me any power that should he given to them with advantage I am prepared to assist in giving it to them; and further, I say I have always been prepared, and have always done my best, to get it for them. Now, I ask. What extra power do you want? [A Voice: “The Hospital Board has to send up to Wellington to ask whether it can discharge a servant. ”] That difficulty can be got over to-morrow. If the citizens of Christchurch will contribute half the money the maintenance of the Hospital costs they can have the whole control of it, and the other half of the money will be given by the Government (Laughter and applause.) Does Christchurch wish to spend the money of the Colony ? I say the people of Christchurch do not. When my honorable friend instances the Hospital I sav the Government would he in the wrong if it permitted any nominated Board to deal with moneys of the Colony. (Applause.) Now let us go into the country. Those of you who belong to the country, I ask you, gentlemen, what further powers do the Counties want; what further powers do the Road Boards want P [A Voice: “ They want money. s ’] Yes, that is the universal solvent ; there would be no difficulty if yon had only sufficient money. Oh, yes, we venture to tell them that we have given them many thousands of pounds. This City of Christchurch draws, many thousands a year from licenses which it never drew before. (Noise.) What did, the Government do in this matter of County local government ? [A Voice: “ They took a million and gave ns .£500,000 hack.” Loud applause.] I am just coming to that. (Interruption.) It is rather difficult to follow some of these figures. I do know something of the figures of the Colony, but cannot quite catch what these gentlemen mean. [A Voice: “ What did Government do to give the country local government ? ”] There were persons such as the honorable gentlemen possessing all the wisdom of the State. They said they wanted counties; they*did not give them any option. They wanted Road Boards, and did not give them any option. But the Government said our trust must he absolute and complete in the ratepayer, and you must allow the ratepayers to determine what form of local government they like for themselves. If the ratepayers of the Colony desired to amalgamate they could do so at the present time. There is nothing to prevent their abolishing the Road Boards;; there is nothing to prevent the ratepayers saying what they like best; they could take the power and work out their own destination. (Applause.) It rests with them entirely. I have here—but I will not trouble you with it—a list —[A Voice: “ Any money ?”] No, no money. There were a good many who said that the land of the people belonged to the people of New Zealand, and so it does; but they say Canterbury must get an extra share—that is the cry. [A Voice: “No; they only want their own,”] The land does not belong to them and never did ; they got a large share which they should never have got. [lnterruption, and “ How many acres have you got ?”] How many acres have I got ?—450. Now, gentlemen, surely you have sufficient self-control and patience to hoar an unpleasant truth. [A Voice : “ There is no truth in what you are stating.”] So much the worse for me. Nov/, I ask you seriously to look at this question of local government. Don’t go about saying, W e want a change, but let each turn over in his mind what he really wants. If you want separation, by all means get it. It seems to mo you are trying to spoil a great Colony by substituting petty States if you can get them; but the people of New Zealand will no more submit to that than they will fly. [A Voice: “What are you ? ”] What am I ? I am simply your servant, and don’t let us have any mistake about it. [A Voice : “ You want to bo our master, and that you will never be.”] I may be very foolish—[A Voice: “ You look it.”] —my looks may betray my character, but I never was guilty of the folly of supposing I should be master of New Zealand. [A Voice ; “ You want to be.”] My honorable friend docs not want to be master; he is.content with his position. (Laughter.) What I wish to say is this : That there is a great mistake in the minds of the electors in supposing that tile responsibility of all this wrong-dcing rests with the Government and the members of j the House. [A Voice :“ With yoil princi-* pally.”] I am not ashamed of what I have done, and can stand up before any audience and say so. [A Voice: “ You have plenty of impudence.”] This is what happens when elections come on: The electors art; led away by personal motives, and are too idle to examine into the questions at issue. [lnterruption. A Voice ; “What are you doing down here?”] I am not at all sure, gentlemen, that you will not be asking mo to come down to Christchurch to stand for Christchurch (laughter), and I am not sure, after the
„wir>n I have got, that I should not SSfTiei &»>■««)..'» «“» nnthinir I like hotter than a little bit of fmf (AVoice: “And you will get it.”] Never mind, wo will take what comes. I was saying that one folly oi the electors is ihis-to throw the responsibility off yourselves for returning an improper man, and one with whom you find fault for fuming his coat, as it is callcd~[Cnes of PiUw* 1 Allwrmht! ” and groans.] returning men who are not worthy of your confideneo, and who in reality represent yon, because you are too idle and Careless to do your duty to your country. [Dissent and cries of: “ Because they are bribed. J Suppose they are bribed by a corrupt Government J well, gentlemen, I say you have a right to send men who cannot bo bribed, or else you are not doing your duty. (Applause.) The fault is with you. I want, when a man is returned as a Liberal, whatever that may moan in this Colony, I don’t know wlmt that may mean myself; but I say be ought to stick to his colours,and in every case where ho .does not, the fault is with the electors who returned him. (Interruption.) Now, gentlemen, don’t misunderstand me on this point; I am not taking the blame off the member himself, or' off the Government, if there are such governments as would buy him over j but I wanted to show you that the people are primarily responsible, and that you suffer. I have been accused of wanting to throw the responsibility off myself m the electors. I do not want anything of the sort. I say I am fully responsible, and if I have done wrong, turn me out by all means. That is your business. But I look upon this as a point of such great importance that I want to urge upon you that you are persons who represent New Zealand, and that you must suffer and bear the responsibility. As is the representation —(Interruption). I was going to say, as are our constituencies, so are the members, and as the members, so are the Government. You may take that as the absolute result of my experience over a series of years, and I say it is you, who are the masters, that must suffer if your servants do wrong. (Applause.) Just take a case. If you employ a man with a horse and cart, and he goes out and runs against his neighbour’s horse and cart carelessly, you will have to pay for the damage. It is true you may sack your servant—[A Voice: “You ought to be sacked.”]—and so it is with your representatives and with the Government. (Laughter.) It is quite true you can sack them: when the time comes you can get rid of them, but not of the mischief they have done. (Interruption.) [The Chairman : Gentlemen, I don’t think one person here should interrupt the whole of this meeting.] [A Voice: “That man' is drunk ; he has had too much beer ; he was turned out once before.”] (The individual in question marched up the hall amid cries of “put him out!” and “ platform !” He was accommodated with a chair near the stage. Major Atkinson continued amid applause.) Well, gentlemen, I was just saying that, with respect to this responsibility —and you may he called upon to exercise it at any time, you cannot tell when or how—a very great deal of the future—if not the entire of the future—depends upon the way in which you exercise your franchise. I want you to understand that I have no desire to escape the responsibility, for I accept it to the fullest extent, hut because I see that the electors have thought that by blaming the Government they would he throwing the responsibility off themselves. I tell you that with you rests the responsibility. Eetum men who wish to do their duty to the country. (Applause.) What are the remedies for this depression ? We have seen that to turn the Government out will not do ; Government will not go. (Confusion.) Well, gentlemen, I have seen it, and I am here to tell you my opinion. [Cries of “ You said there was no depression.”] I never said so 5 you should read what I said. Stopping borrowing will not help us, hut if we borrow too largely, if not very, very careful in dealing with it, and if the people restrict it to particiilar works, we shall get into great difficulties. [A Voice: “ Spend it up in the North Island.”] That is it. Those people talk without knowledge of how much has been spent in public works and immigration. Is therd' one man here who can tell us ? Gentlemen, I am 1 ashamed —(applause, laughter, and hisses) —that men can talk with such brilliant knowledge and confidence after they are convicted of knowing nothing about it. [A Voice: “ You know.”] Yes, I know, and I am going to tell you. I want those gentlemen who are misleading you to tell you what they have done; Mr Montgomery knows all about it. It is he, then, and he ought to he ashamed. [A Voice : “There is depression.”] I am sorry to say that in my district we cannot get within 6d a bushel for our wheat of what you get here. [A Voice : “ You don’t grow any.”] Oh, yes we do. We are very small settlers ; there is not one big man among us. When I was interrupted I was going to tell you what has been done in the North Island in the matter of immigration and Public Works since 1870. In round numbers .£19,500,000 have been spent on Public Works, including immigration. [A Voice : “ How much will the Taranaki breakwater cost ? ”] None of it at all. [A Voice : “ How much in salaries ? ”] I cannot answer that exactly, hut at the endof the year .£IBO,OOO or <£183,000 departmental expenses. But that does not matter at all; .£19,500,000 have been spent, and of that £2,000,000 on immigration. [A Voice : “ A million for a soup kitchen.” Laughter.] Seventeen and a quarter millions, therefore, have been spent on public works. Seventeen and a quarter; and of that £6,900,000 — £0,932,000 are the exact figures—have been spent in the North Island; the balance has been spent in the South Island. Now, if you take the mean population during the last ten years, leaving out the Natives, the amount that ought to he spent i5'£6,550,000. [A Voice : “ Where did your revenue come from? Three-fifths in the South Island, where there are three-fifths of the population ? ” ] Let us have one thing at a time, because, though my friend can talk on everything at once, I am obliged to take one thing at a time. [A Voice: “What about the Land Fund?”] The Land Fund belongs to the people of the Colony, and wo will keep it for the people of the Colony. Now. upon the mean average of the population of the North Island, £0,550,000 ought to have boon spent there ; so you will see that the difference on that is £350,000, so that the North Island has had £350,000 more than its exact proportion. My figures—lam speaking under a sense of responsibility, I have already proved the knowledge of those gentlemen who are criticising me—they dare not come up here and toll us what they know. I say, gentlemen, as I said before, that the Land Fund of New Zealand belongs to the people of New Zealand. I cannot go behind that; I refuse to go behind that. I say there it is, and I can go a little further and say that it ought to have belonged to the people of Now Zealand before they got it, and that it had no business to be spent where it was. I have been asked—a gentleman hero says that Canterbury people pay £2 per acre for their land. [ A Voice : “ So they did.”] So they,’did for some of it, and for some of it only 10s an acre, and some of, the biggest estates were got at that price, [A Voice: “How much did you give?”] My land averaged something like £5 an acre, and I should very well like to sell it at the same price. Two pounds an acre was given for the Canterbury land, and therefore some of that money ought to go locally, which the Government has recognised. _ The Government has gone on the principle of opening the laud by the land—that is, spending the proceeds on opening the land, hiit it is not true to say that because it was £3 here and only 10a in the North Island—[A Voice: “ Is Cd.”] I do not know nny-
thing about that. [A Voice: “What about the Piako Swamp ?”] Dot us have that Piako Swamp business out. 1 am quiet ready to meet anybody as B°°® as we have done. I was just saying that £2 an acre for your land is cheap to the purchaser in comparison with 10s for'large quantities of land in tho North Island, and that your land ought to ho four or five pounds as against 10a;for the difference in tho cost of getting it into cultivation, and for the difficulty of getting roads made. lam sorry—(lnterruption)—gentlemen, avo were speaking about tho difference in what ought to be expended between tho North Island and tho South Island—£3oo,ooo out of £17,250,000. (Interruption). The Chairman : Major Atkinson has promised to answer any questions after he has finished his address.
Major Atkinson resuming: My friends are so impatient to extinguish mo that they won’t wait till the proper time. It seems to me rather cruel, if they intend to execute me, not to give me time to make a last dying speech and confession. (Laughter.) But, it you take into consideration the small number of the Maori population—and, as you know, their lands are fast coming in, and quite a number of them are ratepayers—tho North Island ought to have had a million more spent upon it. (Confusion.) If you take a small portion of them—(Renewed disturbance.) I shall dismiss from your minds the idea that the North Island is having too large a share of the expenditure. I am speaking facts, and am prepared to be judged upon facts; and I say to you: Judge me from the facts I have plenty ; if those who are here know the facts, I say let them come up and contradict mo if they can. I have the official return here to show it. This little digression won’t have done any harm. We got away from the question of the true remedies for the depression. That is what we want to consider to-night. How are you going to get over the difficulties we are in ? I won’t repeat them; though it is almost necessary through these many interruptions, for you—many of you—can’t kept the thread of the argument as I can. We have found that the three proposals are of no use. [A Voice: “The first one is.” Laughter.] Well, supposing you determine to turn out the Government. I will tell you what will happen. (Cries of “ Oh, we will!”) My friends here say they will. I say, suppose you do, this will happen— Corn goes up, and if wool is 3d or 4d a pound higher, then the coming Government will be all right; there will he no difficulties, all will proceed swimmingly, especially if they proceed to borrow largely. (Cries of “No more borrowing.”) I am only telling you what will happen. I don’t like prophesying, but I say, if the price of wool keeps low—not being a member of the Opposition I am not infallible, and so I venture to put in an if where I think there is some doubt (applause and laughter)— l say that while grain and wool keep up, any Government will sail along with flying colours, but, depend upon it, if, after a change of Government, the price of grain and wool is low, they will have much greater difficulties than the present Government have to .deal with, and you will find that, in your own opinion, you have a worse Government than you have at the present time. (Groans.) I don’t grumble; it is quite fair play, and it is rather to my advantage. However ill you may think of the present Government, I tell you that you will think worse of the incoming Government if these things happen. (Cries of “ No.”) lam saying this in all seriousness, because I feel that you want to consider these things. I want to put it to you, as electors of New Zealand, that when you get into difficulties you should not he led away, and not start off on a false scent. [A Voice: “We cannot get worse.”] Assuming that, for the sake of argument, the same arguments as are used now will make you think then that you have got out of the frying-pan into the fire. (Dissent.) It will not he true, hut if you look into the history of Governments, you will find that that is invariably the case. immigration. Now, the first thing that we want is more immigration. (Tremendous uproar.) You know, gentlemen, that it is a very low order of organisation which can only have —(hooting). Well, gentlemen. I’ll go on if you are ready. [A Voice: “ Don’t you want a drink ?”] No, I say we want more immigration of the right class to put upon our land. (Renewed disturbance.) Now, gentlemen, I should like to talk plainly to two or three gentlemen who are interrupting me. I don’t know them, except by their looks. My experience is this, that in every town there is a class of men known as loafers. (Tremendous uproar, which continued for five minutes.) The Chairman : Gentlemen, we are really wasting time. (Renewed row.) Major Atkinson : Really, gentlemen, it is—[Cries of “ Sit down,” “ Order,” “Go on,” “ You’re a loafer,” “How long have you been living on the country,” and longcontinued noise.] Major Atkinson : There’s lots of time, gentlemen, it’s only half-past eight. (Confusion.) (The Chairman : I would ask you, for the credit of the city—(renewed noise, during which Major Atkinson sat down). In response to a call, the assemblage gave three cheers for Mr Montgomery. The Chairman : Gentlemen, I must ask you in fairness, in honesty and in justice, to give a hearing to the gentleman who has come before you To give his time and attention to you—(lnterruption and a Voice : “Will - he withdraw the word * loafers ’ ?”) I did not understand the hon gentleman to call anyone here; a loafer. (Cries of “He did.”) I think that you have had sufficient experience of Major Atkinson to know that all you are doing now won’t daunt him from attempting to tell you the truth. [A Voice: “ Just ask him how Many loafers there are iu the Upper House ?”] _ Major Atkinson (who, on rising once more was greeted with renewed hisses and uproar): Gentlemen, shall we go on ? [A Voice : “If the hon gentleman apologises for what ho has said we will let him go on.”] Major Atkinson: I am not going to apologise, gentlemen; I have nothing to apologise for. [A Voice ; “ Who paid George M'Cullagh Reid £I6OO for four years to go and bring people out from Home?” Another Voice: “He was a loafer,” and applause.]
The Chairman (who, on rising, was received with cheers); Gentlemen, Major Atkinson desires to know if the meeting wishes to hear any more from him to-night —[Cries of “ Yes,” and “ No ”] —because, he says, if it is not your wish to hear any more from him, he will be silent; but he certainly is not going to stand hero unless you are quiet to listen to him. [Cries of “ Appologise,” groans, and histes.J Major Atkinson : Gentlemen —[Cries of “ Sit down,” and ” Go home.”.) —If i 8 a groat pity that you should all (Renewed confusion.) Mr D. Eebse : Ladies and gentlemen. [Cries of »Order.” Silence was now obtained.] I should not like to see this audience to-night interrupt the Premier of Now Zealand in his address —[cries of " Apologise -to the whole of Canterbury. Ho has paid us the compliment, no matter whether wo agree with him in politics or not, and I am one that will show him that the people of Canterbury don’t believe in his past government of Now Zoamnd.' Notwithstanding that, there is a respect duo to the Premier of New ZeaLind that I hope—(confusion)—l hopothut we will not have it said of us that we interrupted him in hi s speech, because J can assume that in Great Britain the leader of tho Tory party was listened to with respect. (No, no.) It costs nothing to be respectful. Listen to him, and you will have an opportunity to show min in a constitutional manner that Canterbury does not believe in tho way he has conducted the Government. If you
conduct yourselves in the manner you have been doing, you will lose the opportunity of doing this. I must assist His Worship in trying to get him a hearing. Giro him a hearing, and I hope for at least half-an-hour wo shall have a little quietness. (Hear, hear.) Major Atkinson then rose, and was greeted with applause. He continued : I was just saying, gentlemen, when wo came to this interruption. [Disturbance, and cries of “ Order. J Well, if you will only say, gentlemen, that you don’t want to hear me, I am quite ready to go away. [Cries of " Go on.’] If that is tho view of tho meeting, but, gentlemen, you must quite understand this : If I go on I am going to say what I have to say. There is no mistake about that. I was just saying that my experience told me that in every town there was a class of loafers. That gave offence, I am sorry to say. There are a certain class of loafers, and also a class of men that are always clamouring for land. My experience is that they are not the working men of the district—not those who are willing to work and earn their living, but men who are perpetually going about * talking and idling, and doing nothing but talk and idle. I say if a statement of that sort gave offence to the working men of Canterbury, it is quite hopeless for a public man to come among you. But I must say I was disappointed that you had not the courage of your opinions to allow me to finish my sentence. What will go forth to the Colony? Why, that you could not listen for a few minutes. Do you think your views and vote will have the effect they would have had if you had followed the advise of Mr Eeese? [A Voice: “ We didn’t send for you.”] You did not send for me, but I came. Do you think 1 cannot take what comes ? Of course I can. Now, I say there is that class which I have mentioned in every community, and this meeting ought to have risen -as one man to help me in my statement, because they are a disgrace to the working men, whom they pretend to represent. (Applause and Hear, hear.) I say this, that there is a large quantity of lana open in almost all parts of the Colony, though Canterbury, unfortunately, is rather short of it. There is land open in Otago, Wellington, Auckland and Taranaki. Now, the North belongs to you as well as the South, and a very large number of settlers, not being able to find land in Canterbury, have come there, and have nice little homesteads, and are doing very well. I isay that any man who honestly wants land can obtain it to suit his requirements. [A Voice : “ Where is it ? ” Refer to the “Crown Lands Guide,” and there you will get information as to every block. What more do you want than that. I say the present Government have done more for the settlement of the land than any Government that has been in New Zealand. (Applause.) Four thousand small settlers have been put on the land during the last four years. [A Voice: “ Did you make roads for them ? ”] When was that ever done before? [A Voice: “Poor devils.”] Poor devils some man says. We cannot blow hot and cold. If we want the land there it is, but the class of men of whom I was speaking are to he found all over the Colony. I say they ought to be objects of contempt to the working men throughout the Colony of New Zealand. (Applause.) Now, it is nearly half an hour since we began to consider the remedies for the depression. I was saying that we must get a larger number of people of the right sort. [A Voice: “ What do you call the right sort ?”] What the old Canterbury settlers were, men with strong hearts and arms. We don’t want men to hang about towns, but to do their duty throughout the country. Don’t deceive yourselves, you will never have prosperity till you have them —without you can increase your population so as to divide your burdens and increase your number of producers. (Hear, hear.) We have far too many distributors. We have a large number of what are known as shaky traders, men who, instead of buying in the cheapest and selling in the dearest market, have to buy in the dearest and sell in the cheapest. And I venture to say that if we could look into the hooks of traders we should find that very little profits have been made, and that in a large proportion of cases there was no profit at all. Until men of that class are weeded out there can be very little prosperity. They are weak, and must sell their goods at whatever price they can get. The consequence is that the market is flooded with goods at a price which is not what they should be sold for, and the honest trader is put at a disadvantage. (Interruption.) I should have finished before now had you allowed me to go on, but as it was your pleasure to have these lively interruptions I must say on. [A Voice -. “ You don’t say much.”] I never do say much. It is not in me, and cannot come out. There appear to he so many wise men here that it is no use talking to. I am only talking to the others. I say we must get rid of weak traders and get people on our land. We must endeavour to induce our merchants and traders to look over the tariff and see what goods we are importing that we could make ourselves —(applause) —and get them to turn their attention to manufactures of every kind that this Colony can produce. (Applause.) That we must hope and strive for. Even with regard to farmers and runholders, we must endeavour to get them to make their land more productive. [A Voice : “ What about absentees ?”] In England, there are about 30,000,000 of sheep, while we have not half that number. I am quite certain that by care and cultivation we could increase the number of our sheep, and the quality of our produce very much, but we must have confidence in ourselves. We want our farmers and runholders to turn their attention in that direction [A Voice.- “ We want a lot”] and we must make up our minds, all ; of us, to live within our means. We are all too extravagant—all classes, it does not matter which you take—from the wage-earning to the professional. We are all living, or have been for some time past living, beyond our means. We must, as you sometimes see it put, give up champagne and take to bottled beer. (Ha! ha! and interruption.) I don’t think we need go lower than bottled beer. (Cries of “ Do without it.’') If you did without it so much the better. I give it as on instance. You must live cheaper and work harder. (Oh ! oh!) That’s what you have to do. Well, gentlemen, there is no royal road. You may turn out the Government; you may stop borrowing; you may alter tho Constitution; but you will find there is no royal road to getting over this difficulty. It must come by self-sacrifice, and nothing else will do it. We can have more expenditure, but this Government will continue to be economical as they have been heretofore. (Oh ! oh! and laughter.) I am telling you tho facts. I say the unpopularity of the Government arises from that fact—that they have dared to restrict the expenditure, both on the revenue and the Consolidated Loan. (No, no.) grain tariff. And now, gentlemen, let us come to this question of the grain tariff. We are met at once by this difficulty : That tho claim is made that the railways belong to localities. That is underlying all this agitation about the railway rates—that they belong to the localities. Now, I will toll you what that means : It mieaqs that all tho returns above five per cent upon any railway shall go into the pockets of the landholders in that district. (Cries of “ No.”) This matter has not been looked into; you have boon led away by the idea that a gross injustice has been committed against this district. [A Voice: “So it has.”] But if you look at it, you will see that it is solely that, where a railway produces a certain percentage, it shall not hare its
rates raised above that percentage. That goes on the assumption that the railways are local property, but I say they belong to the people of the Colony. If that is so, what you have to do is to consider—always taking for granted that they are worked economically, for that is a sine qua non then I say wo have two questions to decide :—First, whether they should be made to pay, and how much; and, secondly, whether they should earn a very small percentage, and wc should trust to their indirect advantage to the Colony, which is enormous. (Cries of " Political Railways !”) Well, gentlemen, I have heard a good deal about political railways; I don't know anything of them. There is no doubt that mistakes have been made in the railway system, as in everything else, and so some of the lines have not turned out profitable. Many of those which are profitable now were said to be political railways at the time they were constructed. But I find that the unproductive proportion does not reach to 4 per cent of the amount spent on the railways. If that is so we have been most successful in the way we have spent our money. What Railway Company ever spent their money better ? You will find very few that have spent it so well. [A Voice; “ Railway Companies never make lines that don’t pay.”] Was there ever one that did pay ? In all cases the original capital is lost; and anybody who knows anything about it knows that it is so. I say we have to consider the two questions—Whether the railways have to pay directly or indirectly. Looking upon the burden we have taken upon ourselves in the public works scheme, and looking at the large interest—one and a half millions —which we have to pay away annually, it seems to me that we must say the railways must pay a certain percentage —I think four per cent. But certainly they must pay three per cent, or a trifle over, otherwise we shall get into financial difficulties before we can make both ends meet. That is a fair question for you— Whether we are to have the railways to pay directly or indirectly. (“ Let each Island pay itself.”) I am not going to argue that. If the railways are to be made local, we must make them local; but I am going to treat them as the Parliament and the people have decided, as the property of the Colony of New Zealand. (Hear, hear. “ Separate the North and South Island lines.”) No, we won't have them separated at all. When the public works were begun, the understanding was that there was to be a trunk line from Auckland to the Bluff. [A Voice : “ And to the West Coast.”] And to the West Coast, too, in due course. Now two years ago large reductions were made in the grain rates, as you will recollect. Some people blamed the Government for agreeing to this. I disagree with that for these reasons. Many people thought, and think so still apparently, that if you will only keep the rates low the result will be that you will get a better return upon the capital expended. Now that is quite true if you can bring in another class that was not previously carried. As you know, all companies carry some particular "line,” as it is called, which does not pay them. The great profit on railways comes from the passenger traffic, and if we had one large city, as they have in each of the Australian Colonies, instead of four or five, our railways would pay better, because we should have a larger passenger traffic. When we tried this experiment of reducing the rates we thought that the loss would be very small, and that the increase of the traffic would make that up; and that being so, if the farmers could be encouraged without the rest of the taxpayers being specially taxed, that the experiment ought to be tried. After a trial of two years it was found to fail; that was about December. I may tell you that I estimated that I should obtain last year from the railways a net income of £384,000. By December we found that it would not realise that, and we had to consider an increase in the rates; and hoping that the price of wool would keep up, we said that we would not raise them until the last minute. (Groans and cries of " Order.”) But when we got a little further in the year, we found there was no chance of the revenue coming up to the estimate, and when we got to the end of the year, we found that the railways, instead of* .£384,000, had netted only just .£300,000 —that is to say, .£BO,OOO short of the estimate. Then we had to consider the question whether we should call Parliament togethey or impose a rate , [A Voice : “ Call Parliament together.”] Supposing we bad called Parliament together, what do you think would have been said? [A Voice : "They would have turned you out.”] No. There’s not the slightest chance of that, because we should not have offended anybody. We were very strong, and if we had said “ Shall we levy a duty on tea or sugar, or raise the railway tariff,” I venture to say that two-thirds would have avoided any raising of the railway tariff. Gentlemen, I say, that to call Parliament together would have been to inflict one of the heaviest blows possible on our credit—for a good deal has been said by our detractors at Home—that because our revenue had fallen off .£BO,OOO, and there was a possible deficit of £150,000 or so, it was necessary to call Parliament together. I say it would have been a blow that would have taken years to have recovered from, and I venture to say that the men who were blaming us for not doing so, would have been the first to say, “ Do you mean it P Why, you are sure to lose political support; why do you not do it whether you would lose political support or not.” They would have been the first to accuse us—and would have accused us rightly—of shirking our duty in order to obtain political support: I venture to say it would have been a cowardly act. We were prepared to take the consequences and will fight it out. The position was that we did and do only what Parliament had given us authority to do—that is, either to reduce or raise the tariff. The tariff was raised to a reasonable amount, and do not think Canterbury is going to pay an unfair share of it. She is not. We are going to raise £1,010,000 —[A Voice : “ Out of Canterbury”]—and the difference in Class E upon Canterbury cannot exceed £16,000, even if it comes up to £16,000. Canterbury feels itbecafiso her people have been dependent upon their grain, and unfortunately they have had a terrible season; the farmers are especially suffering terribly. [A Voice: "Soft soap.”] There is no soft soap; I am telling you the truth. We could have carried any form of taxation that pleased us in place of this. [A Voice : " No; turn out.”] I have heard that so often that I am rather tired of it till it comes. That was the position. And now let me tell you this, that on the present estimate of the present tariff we shall only realise about 3J per cent—if we realise so much. If there has been an expenditure of £3,500,000 on the railways, and we ai-3 realising about £-100,000 —the estimate is £390,000, or less; my estimate is really £386,000 —I say that, without materially increasing the taxation, we cannot do with a less amount from our railways. If we can do it by any other means, so let it ho. [A Voice: " Why did you lot wool escape?”] Som,- gentleman said, " Why did you let woo! ■ .-pe ? ” We have not lot wool escape : a ;.:o answer this. It is a complaint that wo robbing Canterbury. Would you have been better off if we had raised the rates on wool; is not that in Canterbury ? I ask you to look at this. The wool comes after the grain. [A Voice : " No.”] I call it so. I understand, then, that the complaint is that we are only robbing a particular class of Canterbury, and that we may rate other classes as much as we like P It is curious logic, in my opinion. Wool comes after the grain. The truth is, that that is the real point for you to consider —the real flght-r-if there is to be any fight—upon this tariff question. It is a mistake to suppose that the House will listen for a moment to any one of the old rates. I am perfectly certain that
were Mr Montgomery, in office to-morrow, his followers would not allow him [A Voice : “ You know a deal about it.”] I do know a deal about it, I admit. These are the points you will have to determine when the elections come—and they are very important ones ; for if the fight is to be for Separation, well and good. Let it be on clear ground, and not on local government. You will Lav to consider whether your railways are to be worked as a whole, and you could obtain direct payment from them, or whether they should be worked at a loss, and the difference be made up by taxation. That is a fair question, and one which you will have to determine. To my mind this is clear—that the persons who use the railways receive enormous benefits at the present rates. If you reduce the rates the amount of reduction comes practically to the landowners. These and other questions you will have to decide when you come to the elections. [A Voice : “ What about the West Coast railway ?”] Now it is proposed to hand the railways over to a local Board—[A voice: “ For each Island.”] —for each Island, [A Voice: "No political jobs,”] Well, gentlemen, I should like those gentlemen to say what it is they propose the Boards to do. Are the railways to be made pay ? Now, you must know that in all railways it is often found necessary to concentrate the management into the hands of a general manager ; in some large companies at Home they have two—a goods manager and a passenger manager; but in every case they have a manager, so it is quite clear that we must have a manager, whether under a Board or a responsible Minister. If we have two Boards they will take the position of the responsible Minister, but they are not responsible to anybody, and cannot be without an Act. Are you going to direct -hem to obtain, a certain amount of money ? Clearly yon must do. Then what security have yon that they will; for although they are to be appoint 'd for a number of years, they will have in view their re-election. They will have to get high salaries, as was found in Victoria, where they had to send to England, for a man to whom they had to give £3OOO a-year. They hid some difficulty in getting him at that. I may tell you—though probably you know it—that the gift of managing successfully a railway is so rare that you have to pay high for it; so you will have to put it in Commission as in Victoria, under the Govemor-in-Council, without having the power to fix the rates, and you will have to give them full power, and this is what seems to me an impossibility. In a free country you. will have irresponsibility dominating the country, and I say the people will not stand it for an hoflr. Suppose you had the Board doing what has been done lately ? If they had fonnd a deficiency of £BO,OOO would they have hesitated to put on their extra rates ? They would not, for they would have no body to be kicked or soul to be—saved. You won’t get rid of political pressure at all; you will put in the managing Commission, and you will put the rating power in somebody’s hands, and the power of altering the rates. Then I venture to think that all yon have done is to establish a buffer between the Government and the people at a very considerable expense. I have thought this matter out, and if I could see my way to placing the railways under a Board successfully I would do my utmost to-morrow to get it done ; because it is a great mistake for you to suppose that patronage is a great advantage to the Government. For every appointment yon have' one discontented man and nine disappointed men, because the man you appoint is not satisfied with, his salary, and the other nine think they ought to have been appointed. THE DEFICIT. “So much for the railways, and now one word about the deficit. [A Voice: “The Property tax.”] It is too late to speak about that now. When I spoke at Hawera I said it was possible that the deficit might amount to £170,000. Since then the figures have been made up, and I am glad to say it is not so much. It amounts to £152,000, and the advances are £42,000, so that th« deficit is really only about £120,000. I have been very much blamed for not anticipating this deficiency. It is said that I ought to have known that wool was going to fall; that the seasons would be
bad ; that the grain would be spoiled. No doubt all this was my fault, as I explained in Jie beginning. But, gentlemen, I did
not anticipate, and I am not at all ashamed to confess that I cannot take blame to myself for not having anticipated it. I would appeal to all your business men, whether fanning or in trade generally, whether their calculations are not quite as much out as those of the Colonial Treasurer with regard to their own incomes. (Laughter.) Now, gentlemen, the falling off in the Customs revenue may be a gain. It is not unfortunate in this case, for it does not mean that the people are going to the bad. If I could tell you that the falling short was on the duty on spirits and beer, I should be able to claim, on behalf of the Colony, that it was an unmitigated good; and it would afford me great delight to have to find some means of filling up the gap caused in that way. But it is, unfortunately, not the case. This is one of the reasons why I am satisfied that the people generally are sound, that our spending power has not decreased to any great extent, especially among the wage-earning class. (Cries of”" Oh! ”) There are certain figures that test this. I am just going to tell you this. The falling off in spirits is under 2 per cent, in tobacco 3 per cent, or a little over, in beer 3 per cent. But when you come to tea and wine you find it is 5 per cent and 7 per cent, and wnen you come to other necessaries of life, if I may call them so—[A Voice: “ We don’t ”I—they have fallen off considerably. Small beer never suits a loafer. It does suit many an honest working man, but never a loafer, (Laughter.) When we come to look at this question of Customs and we find that there has been a falling off in the necessaries of life of something like 10 per cent, and only 2 or 3 per cent on spirits and tobacco, the deduction that I draw from this is; that the people have become, as I advised you just now that we must become, -till more and more saving. (Applause and laughter.) I have been very much laughed at for this, but I believe that the working men of New Zealand would uot continue to indulge in spirits and tobacco while their families were wanting in tea, sugar, and the other necessaries of life. (Dissent.) Then I say it follows that they have not been pinched. And we know, all of us who are family men, that our wives are the first to begin saving. (Laughter.) You may laugh, hut that is the fact. [A Voice : “ They have had to save, for they had not the money to spend.”] Now, let us just look at this; And I may say this further, that the consumption of tea last year was over 71b per head; and the consumption of sugar over 701 b per head, so that you will "see that a population consuming that amount of tea and sugar cannot be very badly'off. [A Voice : “ Why :”J Because they can afford to buy what is ample without waste. If you look at the statistics of any other country, you will see that it is so. And so now lot us glance at the Savings Banks. They are a most excellent barometer of the working classes. What happened last year ? The total accounts in the Savings Banks were increased by 4419, and the deposits of huge amounts, from .£2OO to JioOO, diminished by 283. The total amount of money, these drew out, was in large amounts which are not for the classes for which the Savings Banks were instituted, but amounts which were put there by persons who were awaiting some more profitable investment. You will see that what I am saying is correct, for when the hanks are giving no interest the Savings Banks deposits are increased. The amount they drew out was very nearly j£loo,ooo, but the.totai
■withdrawals only amounted to £OI,OOO. So •vou will see that they drew out £40,000 more than the total decrease. So that tho small accounts had increased by £40,000. And if you take the accounts under £IOO the difference is still greater in the direction that lam pointing out. lam asking you to consider what that means. It is quite clear that they were drawn out for investments iu other securities, and you will find that other investments increased by £ iSO.OOO. Now, I give you these reasons, and I hope you will think of them, showing that the spending power of the people is not diminishing to any appreciable extent. [A Voice: “ Nonsense.”] CONCLUSION. And now, gentlemen, I will just ask you to look what the Government have done for the Colony —[A Voice : “ Binned it”] — and for Canterbury—(laughter)—and a great deal for Canterbury they have done too. When we took office our 4 per cent debentures in the London market wore worth less than 80; and tho Bank of England positively refused to advance another jCi’o.OCO on any consideration whatever. j A Voice : “ Quite right too.”] They may have boon quite right, but I say they were wrong. If we had got 100, as we have lately, we should have had more to spend. ( A Voice ; “ Who would have got it?”] You would have got your share. Now our 4 per cents are worth over 100, and tho Bank of England is advancing upon the stock lately inscribed (applause) and though sonic of you may not understand what that means, I can assure you that it mean- a great relief financially all over the Colony, because when public credit is high investors of all sorts are prepared to advance money, aud settlers of all kinds are prepared to come out here aud relieve us of some of our burdens. (Applause.) 1 say the Government is deserving of credit, and I say that any just and fair man will say the same. To think that -your political opponents do everything wrong is a great mistake; and you don’t gain,’"as you will find to-night, by indiscriminate condemnation. (Applause.) I say that the credit of the Colony iu the Old Country stands at a height it never stood at before. (Oh, oh!) If you can tell me any period when our four per cents were over par I should like to know the time. (Applause.) I say the Government has landed us in the foremost position in the London money market —(Hear, hear). —and that is what we can congratulate ourselves upon. With regard to land, what has tire Government done ? They have stopped the acquisition of large estates, because tbey believe that small settlements are what the country must depend upon. (Applause.) And we have actually settled 4000 people on the land upon settlement conditions. That, say, is a great work, and a work never done before by any Government in New Zealand. Well, gentlemen, what have we done ? We did not talk about enlarging the franchise, but actually did it. We have given, practically, every man in New Zealand a vote. And I say this, further, that ■we have carried on the Government economically. (Hooting.) Well, very often those who make the most noise know the least about it. (Applause and laughter.) Now, gentlemen, I am going to confess one failing to you. I have confessed one, and I am going to confess another, as you have "been so very kind to-night. The Government have dared to live to a green old age {laughter), and if I am anything of a judge, they still have a very good constitution. -{Renewed laughter.) They have declined, upon every occasion when it was proposed to lead them out to be executed, to be executed. (A laugh.) Now I think, as I was making a clean breast of it to-night, I ought to tell you fairly what is our great failure. There is no doubt these are our two great faults, that we have dared to tell the people that they must borrow only a small amount, and that they must be economical, and that we have dared to live to a good old age. And now, gentlemen, I would conclude with saying this, as I said "before, that upon us each and individually rests the power of renewing prosperity within the Colony. If you think that calling upon Jove when your cart is in a rut, without putting your shoulder to the wheel, will get you out of the rut, call by all means. But I don’t think you do believe so. I say the first thing you have to do is to renew your confidence in yourselves; and gentlemen, at the present time, because they have the voting power, chiefly on the wages class depends the prosperity of the Colony. Don't let us have any “ cant” about the working men. We have too much of that. Let the various classes all do their duty, and you will And that as long as civilisation is what it is, we shall have various classes. lam not here to pander to one class more than another. We must all do our duty (applause), and if the people of New Zealand will, as I believe they will, rise to the occasion, our prosperity is assured, and we shall go on from prosperity to prosperity in the future, even in a greater degree than we have done in the past. (Long continued cheering, during which the hon gentleman sat down.)
The Chairman : There are a number of questions here: Major Atkinson will possibly be able to answer them. I will first read a series of questions from the Working Men’s Political Association.
The Mayor then proceeded to read the following thirteen questions:— 1. Will you consent to the repeal of the Property Tax Act, and substitute a progressive Land tax in lieu thereof ?
The Premier : No, certainly not. 2. Will you accept Sir George Grey’s Bill for local government.
Major Atkinson : I have no idea what it is; I shall be very happy to consider it. If local government means separation of the islands I should not consent to it, but any extension of the power of local government, if given properly, shall have my most earnest support. 3. How do you propose to make up the deficiency in the revenue ?
Major Atkinson : lam not here to make a financial statement, [Applause and confusion. A Voice: A “ hoodwink/'] There is no doubt my political opponents would very much like it, hut I know my business better than that; but I have not the least doubt I shall make provision for the deficit without unduly burdening any class of the community. (Applause.) 4. Will you consent to the abolition of the Legislative Council ? Major Atkinson : No; not as far as I am concerned. [A Voice: “ You are going back there when they turn you out."] No; I always go forward. [A Voice : “ And. let the country go down. } 5. Will you bring forward a Bill to establish a National Bank of Issue ‘i Major Atkinson : No.
. Will you take steps to prevent all immigration for the present ? Major Atkinson : Certainly not; I shall (Hisse ) bnmigrauts I can. 7. Will you prevent the granting of all pensions for the future ? Major Atkinson ; No. I do not believe bat we shall ever have efficient Civil ervants without pensions. (Groans and hisses.) I think that what we must do is to demand from our Civil Servants that tney make proper provision by contributions from their own salaries to provide miring allowances and pensions for themalreadv f tb J ak thi * is a serious evil aireadj for there are now many persona, taltn l m the -? ailwa y Department, not fif * m ° r i e a l°’- wLo are now Ot fit to do their work. They have been excellent servants in them and Government could not get rid of out 1 ?’ b , ecause . tliat would be to send them S^ St i ai ' Tat,on °y be S£ ar y- Government cannot do as a private firm, and sack a : "They do”], because you ould say it was favouritism. There are b® got rid of, but it ould be cruelty. No State could see its
old, faithful servants compelled to bog their bread.
8. What provision is tho Government going to make to provide work for tho unemployed F Major Atkinson ; We shall make provision if it is necessary, though I hope it willuot be so. [A Voice: “ Soup kitchens.” ] We shall not have soup kitchens, but shall expect every man to do n fair day’s work. [A Voice : Piece work P”] Yes, we shall give piece work, and under the ordinary wages, so as not to interfere with the ordinary labour of the country. Tho intention of the Government is to find work so that they will earn a little loss than tho ordinary market wages. 9. Will you make provision for holding all general elections on tho same day throughout the Colony, and proclaim that day a public holiday F Major Atkinson : Provision is made at the present time for that. Under the law all elections take place on tho same day. I think it is an exceedingly bad arrangement, and shall do my best to alter it. 10. Will you uphold the Education Act in its purely secular principles F Major Atkinson : 1 shall do nothing to destroy tho Education Act while I am in tho Government. Ido not believe in the Education Act. I am in favour of religious education. (Approval and dissent.) *ll. Will you provide for the appropriation to the Provincial district of Canterbury of tho amount admittedly due to that district F
Major Atkinson : Well, really sir, it is very easy to assume a thing. I do not admit that there is anything due, so I cannot make provision to have it allocated. I deny altogether and absolutely that the public works scheme contemplated, or should contemplate, that we should permit our money to be spent in districts as against the construction of main trunk lines. (Oh, oh.) 12. Will you introduce an amendment Act to make the electoral districts of the principal towns, that is, viz., Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin, into electoral districts, returning two or more representatives, instead of as now being subdivided F Major Atkinson : It is the intention of Government to propose an amalgamation of the constituencies in large towns. (Applause.) Mr Dobnet : I will ask another question on behalf of the Working Men’s Political Association which was not written on that paper. What are Major Atkinson’s views in regard to the West Coast Railway ? Major Atkinson : Gentlemen, as you know, provision was made in the Railways Construction Act for making this railway. At the present time persons are in correspondence with the Government upon the question of making that railway under that Act. I do not see any prospect of the Assembly providing money for it by a loan, because you know the last million of the last loan will not be raised till next year, as we are bound not to put more than a million upon the market in one year.
A large number of written questions had been handed up, which the Chairman now read.
Mr J. T. Matson asked : Can Major Atkinson say why the runs authorised to be sold in Christchurch on May 29 next have only their defects quoted and not their virtues, for it appears to the questioner that the advertisement, as it stands, is simply damnatory to the interests of the sole?
Major Atkinson : I am sorry that I have not seen the advertisement. (A copy of the advertisement prefixed to the question was here handed to him.) I know very little about runs, as I have never had anything to do with them, but if this description is wrong I will call the attention of my honorable friend the Minister of Lands •—(Oh, oh!) —to it. I may say that we have doubled the rents of the runs since he took office, and intend to increase them. Mr T. Taylor asked: Is Bellamy’s upheld or paid for out of the public purse, or do the members pay themselves ? Major Atkinson : Bellamy's is part of the Parliament House, and, therefore, to that extent is upheld by the country becausethebuildinghelongs tothe country. I believe, also, that Parliament bought some of the plate, knives and forks, and things of that sort. [A Voice : “Is that where you make the ratsF”] For all the rest the members pay themselves —for everything that is eaten nd drunk. Mr J. P. Oliver ; Would it not be wise' of you to refute the idea of the Government Life Assurance being handed over to some private company, vide paragraph in Lyttelton Times this week F
Major Atkinson : I am much obliged for that. I saw that a paragraph was going round the Colony, copied from an Australian paper, to the effect that the Government Life Assurance Department is badly managed, in a very bad state, and is about to be handed over to some private company. From beginning to end all this statement is not in accordance with facts. There is no Insurance Company that I know of that has been so successfully managed, considering the time it has been in existence, as that established by the New Zealand Government. The ordinary branch last year took 5113 policies, amounting to ,£1,040,000. The annual premiums were £31,000. The claims met were 109, amounting to £29,000, including bonus additions. The interest from invested funds was £41,100. TheJ total income was £215,500, and the total amount of the invested funds is £846,000. If you look back you will see that I made a statement last year that there are two very well conducted andprosperous mutual offices in Australia, which have been in operation the same time as oui s, and their accumulated funds only amount to £250,000, so that you will see that unquestionably the office is exceedingly well managed ; and I challenge the fullest investigation, and I say that there are greater pains taken with regard to the lives taken in that office than in any private office in the Colony, An Elector asked : Were the Government carrying out their policy of retrenchment when they appointed another highly-paid official at the Addington wcrkshops, at a time when a large number of workmen were being discharged ? Major Atkinson : I have such confidence in the officers of the Eailway Department that I shall say yes, though I know nothing about it. An Elector asked: Is the hon gentleman aware that the said official has been several times reported for using obscene language to workmen ?
Major Atkinson : I am not aware of it, hut I say most distinctly that if any officer of the Government does such things he ought to be dismissed at once. Mr T. Taylor : It is an acknowledged fact that intoxicating liquor is the direct cause of much crime and poverty, and great expense to the Colony, Will Major Atkinson try prohibition in one of the Provinces as an experiment. Major Atkinson : I am entirely in favour of local option. I believe in leaving these matters to the electors; and when we get the women as voters, the evils of this curse of drink will be very much mitigated. It is no use going ahead of public opinion. We must wake up the public to the cost of it, and this can only be done by giving unlimited power to the ratepayers to deal with it. An Elector asked: Whether the hurried manner in which the Estimates had been passed in the last session of Parliament was conducive to the interests of lb® country ? Major Atkinson : This is a double question. If the Opposition had done their duty, it would have been better to take more time ; but believing in the Estimates I brought down, I took what measures I thought necessary to get them passed. I know what Oppositions do, because I have been in opposition myself —and shall be again, no doubt. Sometimes an Opposition will say, “We are not quite strong enough
to turn tho Government out, but we’ll discredit them by not lotting them do any work." And so they do. And then they say: “ Here’s a Government for you I They cannot do anything.” I, as loader ot the Government had to meet that, aiul 1 took stops, with tho approval of Parliament, to got my Estimates passed and Hills carried; and I succeeded.
A Voice : Eats 1 An Elector asked if tho tendency of Major Atkinson’s speech in Dunedin did not tend to discourage the mining population of Now Zealand, who had produced a sum equal to our national debt F Major Atkinson : I think that it should have encouraged them very much. Hero I Would say, and I hope I shall not ho detained as I was half-an-hour ago when I spoke about loafers, that I know of a sot of dishonest agents who got up bogus Companies. In Dunedin .£250,000 has been invested in bogus Companies that never returned anything. [A Voice : “ Like diamond shares.”] 1 must express very great regret that people, hastening to bo rich, should take all that capital out of their legitimate business to invest it in such things as that. i An Elector asked: Whether the three million loan had not been carried through Parliament principally on Major Atkinson’s argument that otherwise 3000 men, who wore then employed on Government works would, if tho Loan Bill did not pass, be thrown out of employ F And was not immigration resumed on the passing of the Kill P
Major Atkinson : No; for I never made any such statement. What I did say was that one of the things to ho considered was that if we suddenly ceased our public works tho men employed on them, not the same men, hut the same number of men, would he thrown out of work, and they amounted to 3000. Immigration was renewed, and I am oiily sorry that the vote was not larger, for I am perfectly certain that directly immigration ceases wages go down and depression follows. [A Voice : “ There are more men here than can find employment.”] I am here to express to you my views. Mr Macandrew is supposed to be a great Liberal, and I a Conservative, yet he holds exactly the same views. If any one takes the pains to examine the history of the Colony, he will find that, directly immigration ceases, wages fall. [A Voice: “ Why F”] Because every man that comes must get’ his food, and both works and gives work. (No.) This country will hold five times the population it has. [A Voice: “ Will you find work for them P”] Yes. An Elector: Do you think that the Government are treating the present inhabitants of New Zealand justly in taxing the necessary articles consumed by them for the purpose of paying the passages of people from England to compete with them ?
Major Atkinson : I believe they are acting justly in that case, for I contend that every man who is brought in creates work, and makes everything easier for all of us. (Oh, oh!) Tou will think of my words some time. [A Voice : “ How about national insurance ?”] I have nearly got my National Insurance Bill ready, , It is in print, and presently, when you are in a little better humour, I am coming down to persuade you to put it in force. It must not be hurried, but I am expecting to have you clamouring to me to go on faster. (Oh, oh.) Mr John Matthews asked; Is Major Atkinson in favour of granting bonuses to local industries in their infancy ? Major Atkinson : I should say yes, generally. The Government has given the fullest encouragement to local industry. The dutiy has fallen'off 25 to 30 per cent, on account of some things. Three years ago we took the duty off calicoes and tailors’ trimmings, which has enabled the greater part of our underclothing and slops to be made in the Colony. This was all in the interest of the working class ; the duty on these things would have amounted to iE45,000. I have received a letter from Auckland to say what a deal of good that had done, and that the makers were able to compete against the imported articles. Then the Kaiapoi and Dunedin factories are doing the same thing. I may say that whatever I can do to encourage local industries I shall always be ready and willing to do. (Applahse.) Mr A. Beert asked: Can you justify the action of the Government re the Sarah W. Hunt case ? (Groans.) Major Atkinson : I do not know the exact particulars, I was in Sydney at the time, but as the head of the Government I am prepared to take the fullest responsibility, and I have no doubt that my colleagues did what was right. [A Voice: " They did nothing.”] Yes they did. They seat a steamer. Mr W. Smith asked: Do not you think that the printing of Hansard and the working of the Government Printing Office in Wellington is far too expensive, and would be carried on much cheaper by private firms ? Major Atkinson: I do not think so. Several efforts have been made to induce newspapers to do it. It is very desirable, it seems to me, that the colonists of New Zealand should have a record which, if they like to read it, will give them an idea of what members are doing, though it is a troublesome record, for so many members like their constituents to see them in print. Mr J. Walker asked ; Is it true that the Government of New Zealand have become the proprietors of hotels —for instance at the Hammer Plains, and have spent a large sum of money upon the building ? If it is true, have they taken care that their licenses may not be taken away through the fancy of some temperance radical P Major Atkinson : I really cannot say for certain. Government has put up a builaing at the Hanmer Plains, and I think wisely. With regard to taking out a license. Government must be subject to the same law as private individuals. An Elector asked: Considering the great injury that the Colony is suffering through the land being held in large estates, are the Government prepared to bring in a measure to restrict the wholesale dealing that is taking place between the Natives and a few speculators in the North Island P
Major Atkinson : Government have determined to bring in a Bill to ask Parliament to resume the pre-emptive right in the interests of the Crown.
An Elector asked : Are you aware that the Native lands on the East Coast of the North Island, which have not passed the Native Lands Court, are being dealt with in contravention of “The Native Lands Act, 1873, and Amendment Act, 1883” ? If so, will the Government prosecute, under the Act, those offending ? Major Atkinson ; It is the duty of Government to do so. If the questioner will give me any cases I will have them looked into.
Mr E. Smith asked: Are you in favour of having rolling stock manufactured in this Colony H
Major /"•tinson : Undoubtedly, as far as it is p i'ho whole of the carriages and waggons are made in the Colony, and there are distinct orders to the Department to obtain everything in the Colony they can.
An Elector wished to know if Major Atkinson would inform the meeting how much of the throe million loan was allocated to Canterbury, and how much is likely to be spent in this Province. Major Atkinson : I am sorry to say I cannot give the information. (Oh, oh !) I am not at nil ashamed to say that I look at the necessity of the works, and not at the districts in which they are to bo constructed. Any gentleman can find that out by looking at the schedule of the Act, [A Voice : “ For what are you paid ?”] p o r doing my duty as Treasurer. ■ "
An Elector : Who was responsible for making the Taranaki breakwater ? What
was the cost of the same, and how is it intended to make W W Merest on Provincial Council, which I understand you think a body possessed of all wisdom. They panned an Ordinance authorising it to bo made. Tim Gonoral Assembly afterwards passed an Act giving authority for tho appointment of a Harbour Board to carry it out. I, myself, have also assisted in getting tho work done. An Elector s How much money has or is to bo spout on tho Otago Central Railway, and is any interest on expenditure likely to bo paid on that work F < Major Atkinson : I think £300,000, but I would not speak certainly. That will no doubt all bo spent on that lino. An Elector : What interest m expenditure does the Government expect from the Auckland and Taranaki Railway, supposing they make it F *. Major Atkinson : I hardly think it will pay 5 per cent at tho beginning. (Laughter.) But I have no doubt it will bo one of the best paying lines we have ever made for settling the country. It goes through splendid land both north and south. Mr J. Cbbwes asked : Has Major Atkinson a little Bill in print to unite tho Australian Colonies to make’ provision for tho annexation of New Guinea by Queensland, in order that tho slave trade may be more successfully carried on between that Colony and the South Sea Islands P Major Atkinson : T have no little Bill in hand nor have I heard of such a Bill. Mr J. J. Parker wished to know if,Major Atkinsou’s pension proposals became law, how far would they apply to the working classes, old men and porters from the workshops F Major Atkinson : Every Government officer in permanent employment should he included in it. r f Another gentleman asked if Major Atkinson would explain how it was that the railway authorities charge each parcel separately through the parcels. office although consigned from one person to one consignee ? For instance: A parcel 141 b in weight sent to Dunedin costs 3s lOd, and a parcel 1121 b in weight costs 9s 10d; hub six parcels 141 b each, which cannot he packed together, are charged six times 3s lOd, or 235, while, if packed together, they would go for 9s lOd. Did he consider such a method honest F Major Atkinson : It seems to me quite honest.- If somebody likes to get six parcels which, sent separately, would cost 3s lOd each, sent for 6s 3d, he has fulfilled the terms of the railways, and no one can complain. All parcels are sent to be distributed, the same as if a grocer were to send a number of parcels in a hogshead, which would only be charged as one thing. An Elector : Do you not consider that the Governor should have commuted Longhurst’s sentence, in the face of a petition presented to him, signed by 10,000 persons ? Major Atkinson : That is a question which lam unable to answer. His Excellency exercised his authority as he thinks right, and is responsible only to the Queen. An Elector : You have said that Canterbury has received more than her stare of the lands of the Colony. Will you tell when, and in what form ? Major Atkinson: What I meant was this: that the Land Fund, having been provincialised, instead of colonialised, Canterbury lived on its Land Fund for a long time, which ought not to have been, because they had no right to use the Land Fund for the ordinary purposes of government.
Mr A. Joyce asked: Are you in favour of any steps' being taken to compel the opening of the large freehold blocks ? Major Atkinson : I have no doubt that if it can be shown that large estates are injurious to the community, the community has a perfect right to resume possession of them upon paying their proper value. You will see that Mr Gladstone holds that opinion. But we must not interfere with the rights of the individual without it is shown clearly that such is prejudicial to the rights of the community. The Chairman : An elector wishes to ask a question not put in writing. He must not be allowed to make a speech. (No.) ... Mr Flesheb : The Premier, in stating the amount of borrowed money in the North Island—(“Speak up.”)—l should like to know whether he included the first three million loan and also the special million now proposed to be borrowed for the North Island ? Major Atkinson: No. lam only speaking of expenditure on immigration and public works, and the actual expenditure up to this time. Mr Flesheb : Will not the expenditure on the railway between the east and west coasts of this island be both as wise and as equitable as the expenditure on railways in the North Island, from which there is but a remote prospect of remunerative returns ? (Applause.) Major Atkinson : No, I do not think so at all. (Oh, oh!) lam quite certain that it will not. It will open up no land for settlement. I am, and have always been, an advocate for that line being made as soon as the Colony can afford it, but it would not pay working expenses for some time to come. (Oh, oh!) -Mr T. Tatlob : The greater portion of the imported ironwork for railway carriages, &c., has to be altered in the workshops. Is this right ? All the ironwork could be made here. Major Atkinson : I suppose that that would imply that the contract at Home is not properly given effect to. If so it should be remedied, though I do not say that it is so. Mr J. A. Moboan : Are you in favour of a Government Bank of Issue combined with a national mint ?
Major Atkinson : No, I cannot say I am. Jt is always a losing job. The Imperial Government have just had to reduce the standard of their half sovereigns in order to cover expenses. The Chaieman: That cdncludes the questions. I have a resolution, moved by Mr Guinness. It is—“ That this meeting has no confidence in the present Ministry.” (Loud applause.) Mr John Lee rose, but was greeted with cries of “ sit down.’ 3
Mr D. Eeksb : Mr Chairman and gentlemen, I will second the resolution, and in doing so I,wish it to ho conveyed to the Major that we consider that in Canterbury we have been badly treated. (Hear, hear.) I think that, according to Major Atkinsen’s statement, he showed us by the statement of expenditure on public works that the North Island had received £394,000 more than its share. If that is the case, why does the Ministry borrow a special million for the sole benefit of the North Island ? (Hear, hear.) The statement made in the House of Parliament last session showed that Canterbury was entitled to one and a-quarter millions, and there is no doubt that if wo had our fair share of public expenditure, we should not bo in this state of depression. (Hear, hoar.) You will find that in the North Island, in Wellington and Auckland, they are buoyed up there with the expenditure of public money, and it is the want of our fair share that is the cause of the depression now in Canterbury. Major Atkinson has shown that the depression is caused by the stopping of borrowing, and by having to send money out of the country. The present Ministry apply this to Canterbury, which they bleed by the property and railway taxes 5 while at the same time we do not got back our fair share for railways and public works. Major Atkinson has -shown us that 4000 families have been settled in the North Island on deferred payment. If Canterbury land were not locked up, and our people had the assistance of deferred payments, 4000 families ; would settle on the Canterbury plains within two years. (Hear, hear.) It appears to
mo that tho idea' of tlio Minister of Lands has been to settle people in tho North Island and tho far south of this Island, No attempt has been made to do so here j tho land has been sold in many thousand aero blocks, and taken np by wealthy people, who havo loft their homes in Christchurch, in order to comply with tho residence clause. So they hare occupied tho land which should have been givon to tho working man. Those arc only a few of the reasons why we consider wo have been badly dealt by. (Applause.) Mr Edward Wakefield, M.H.11. : I want to say a word or two on o, subject which does not only affect tho interest of Canterbury, but tho interest of all classes of producers in Now Zealand, and not as a local question, but as an important Colonial question. I refer to the raising of the railway tariff j and as ono of tho representatives of one of tho most important districts in tho Colony, I desire to say that having heard what his just been said, and having given impartial consideration to it, I confess I cannot say that I am satisfied with the Premier’s explanation. Tho most important point has been entirely overlooked by Major Atkinson to-night. It is that the power entrusted to the Government of altering the railway tariff should bo used as a method of making up a deficiency in the revenue. That Act coul4 be used as a measure of taxation, and the admission made by tho Premier to-night that the Government had raised the tariff to fill up the deficiency of JJ170,000 from other sources, strikes a blow at the stability of the most important industries in the Colony. Sir, lam not ono of those who raise any cry against Government on behalf of a particular class ; but I say all alike are interested in having stability in tho carriage of produce. If we are liable to have the rates lowered during periods of prosperity, and suddenly raised in bad seasons, after all their arrangements have been made —then I say that all the producers in the Colony can never calculate on what their profits or gains will be. ■ (Loud and continued applause.) Now, gentlemen, that, I say, is a matter of far more importance than the mere amount of the tariff. The principle I want you to look to is this: The time may come when we shall have unprincipled men in office, who will follow the bad example set by these men, and who, at a moment’s notice, may raise the tariff. Major Atkinson says we want J 8120,000 j it is not a large amount. [Major Atkinson : “ I never said so.”] In effect, that is the argument of the Government. I have no desire to misrepresent him. I will take his own words for it that the tariff has been raised because the Government could not raise money without resorting to some more unpopular mode. I say, under another Government, not a virtuous Government, but an unscrupulous Government who may be in the same predicament and may want .£500,000, they may say: we have the farmers in our grasp and will put it on the railways. It is the principle of the thing—the vexatious principle laid down by the Government —to which we should direct our attention. It is on that point that I am unable to agree with the Government, that they have justified the action they have taken. Ido not wish to trespass on your time. (Cries of “Go on.”) I believe I have expressed the whble feeling of this part of New Zealand, that what we object to is not the amount, but the principle of making up in this way the deficiency, which as a financier the Treasurer should have been cognisant of. There is ohe other point I want to refer to as being well acquainted with the mining constituencies. It has been said that a quarter-of-a-million has been invested in bogus companies in the West Coast. I say that the great majority of that money has been invested in bond fide enterprise, but anybody must be aware that you do not get your returns, in a single year as if from grain. Iknowten or twenty thousand pounds have been invested, from which we’ll have to wait for the returns ; and are we to be told that, because the returns not coming in, therefore it has been thrown away on bogus mines ? (Cries of “ No! ”) I believe that no money is better expended than in mining, and I believe the time will come when this will be a great mining country, and instead of exporting our produce, we shall sell it to the miners on the West Coast. I say it was a grave mistake for the Premier to say what he did at Dunedin, and a discouragement to the mining interest, and not accurate as to fact. A Minister speaking under a sense of responsibility, ought to he more careful what he says. That is all I have to say, though I grieve to see any want of confidence in our Ministers. I think they ought to be treated with respect, wherever they go, hut the motion having been moved, I was bound to express my opinion. I hope you will express your opinions, but, at the same time, with the highest respect. (Loud applause.) Major Atkinson : Just one word, gentlemen. (Hisses and cries of “No, no.”) ~ The Chairman: The Premier would like to say a few words, if you would listen to him. (Cries of “Yes,” “No,” and “ Sit down.”) Major Atkinson (who, on rising, was loudly cheered): Gentlemen, I don’t propose to argue with Mr Wakefield at all as to the principle which he alleged was underlyifag the whole of this. He said it was that the Government proposed to make up the deficiency upon which they ought to have calculated, and he implied that, in order to make up the deficiency from'other sources, the Government proposed to put an extra, charge on the railways. No such thing was thought of. The Government found that the railways would not produce the 3 per cent. They believed, and believe now, and I venture to say that my honorable friend will not contradict it when he gets into the House, that the railways must produce 3 per cent. The Government have made provision that they shall, during the next year, not during the past year. As to the mines, I repeat my assertion. I got my information at Dunedin, from the men who paid the money out, that that, was the very least sum paid, invested in unprofitable and bogus investments. (Applause and dissent.) The Chairman: I will now put the motion. * About two-thirds of those present held up their hands in favour of the resolution, while about a dozen voted against it. The Chairman : I declare the resolution carried. (Loud and prolonged cheering.) Three cheers wore givon for Mr Wakefield and for Sir George Grey. Amidst the confusion of the breaking up of the meeting, Major Atkinson moved, and Mr Keese seconded, a vote of thanks to the Chairman. Mr A. G. Howland also moved a voto 'of thanks to Major Atkinson tor his address, but neither proposition was put, owing l to tho fft-ct tluxt tli© n-udicnco were then x*apidly leaving the hall. Tho meeting closed about 20 minutes to eleven.
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Bibliographic details
Lyttelton Times, Volume LXI, Issue 7226, 28 April 1884, Page 5
Word Count
19,581PARLIAMENT OUT OF SESSION. Lyttelton Times, Volume LXI, Issue 7226, 28 April 1884, Page 5
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