GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XXVIII, Issue 2122, 9 October 1867, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSI'IOFRGPIiKENTATIVES, Mondat, Ski>t. 23. ANNUAL APPROPKIATIOKB.

llr BBEVHB, in mov nir, That in the opinion «f this House it is inexpedient that tlie .ni>propriaiions of revenue sli uld extend boyond the period of ihe cunent financial yeur-eaid that when he g ve notice soiiie titiie ago of the inotion standing in Ins mmie, lie laboured under n eoiifhltriilHe ditllculty. He felt like anign arniin* himtelf against what nvglit be after all an imaginary dancer, but Bincc that time the atlmisMun -winch liaii luen: made by thehonomaiile gentleman nt the head of the Treasury I epurt'i cut had satisfied his mind of the iieeisbity which existed fur diseasing the question. lie had had the advantage of listening lo the advice of the honourable gentleman, who, however, carefuly guarded himself against spiaking the viiws of his colleagues, a precaution wliich led him: tj suppose lliivt they did not share in his particular opinions, lie hail notonly heard his advice, but also n g»ud many of tlie lc isims wliicji irere nildueed in favour of granting supplies for a period of two years. It appeared to him that the object ions to the present system of annual pailkiiniits carried very little if eight i the principal reason was that there would be a saving iiv the expenditure, a saving which;, as it amounted to about onchundredth part of the annual revenue which that House was called upon to receive an account of from the Government as to its expenditure. mid to settle for the coming year how it would be raised aiid expended, was hardly worthy of being'called aii argument. There were soineother in favour of the lion, gentleman's idea; one was, that tin annual session seemed neeewuily to involve an annual change in the Government of the country, lion, members would lecollict that at an early part of the session, the only time wht-n the Minbtry stood in danger of losing tht-ir place?, they w ere' saved by those i who diJ not agree with their paliey, but who gave them their support in order to avoid a change in the Uovernnient, and if that had been d-.ne once it might probably occur again. '1 lien they had some arguments from honourable gcuilemeii who .might be raid to be fond 0! dispotism, and to have a natural : disinclination for constitutional forms of Government, which was ceritiinlynn uiijortunate tendency for anyone who was obliged io live under representative government. The only other objection was , founded mainly,, it seemed to him, oil a sense of irritation, and, perhaps, he might add disgust at the inconvenience attending the present form of government. No doubt there was a good deal of time wasted, and a great deal of folly talked there during the. session, but'surely that was i,o reason why the; whole institution should he swept away-for if there was/f Ijy. so was there a great deal of sense and wisdom displayed there—and. if time was sometimes wasted, still ut great deal of good was evolved from their being called together to fulfil their duty to the people and to the colony It struck him very forcibly that the iion. geutleman, the Colonial Treasurer, in advocating the scheme he did, liad been guilty of a great piece of inconsistency, great even for that honourable gentleman, although he could not »ay he was much surprised at it. Still he thought that the policy of the Government. if, indeed,.it had any policy at all ran in the direction of re ucing the legislative powers, of the: provinces, and cent alis-1 ing them m this House. Noiv, if this was so, surely it was a marvellouspiece of inebnsis- ■ tency to say that there should not be an annual, session of the Assembly, lion, members:' were- constantly being told by the Government that they must not- hurry away—that, there was, important business to be done, and important bills to be and which must be passed ; and bethought that any man of common sense must:see.that. the . legislative wants of a new country were like y to be as pressing, if: not more pressing; than those .of older countries, ■where:the machinery of Government .was more:perfect. He could really scarcely imagine that the Government wan honestlv dtsirous tint there should be no session of tiie legislature during the course ..of the next year.. If it could be said that: there , was anything like a stable Government in office, or that the affitirs of the country were in i •atisfactory 'condition,., he ■ could understand the reasonableness of making' tlie demand; : but he maintained, and he did so without fear of contradiction, that there was no kind of stability;of: principle about the, Government, and that they had no policy of their own. He did not say anything which could . not be proved., fromthe n.ouihs of lion, members on. the Treasury Benches themselves, lie asserted-, that they were not prepared to lead thecountry, but to follow suit aiid to take advantage of any little;.feeling or. any little policy chiming in with their own wishes which might turn up in odd places. Whit was the financial scheme of the.Government? Was it not one cf glaring expediency, one intended to make things pleasant to all parties if it could be all carried uutbu t had not the Treasurer been told and told repeatedly that: the scheme would not .bold water ?. That even if Auckland did get the promised £25,000 she could not-hpldVbut much ioiiger. He-knew.tliat.not even the ordinary machinery of Government coiild be earried on tliere much longer! and he had the best authority for making the assertion. Again, what had thehon. member for Taranaki told them-that it would cease to exist as a Proviucc beiore the end of the year, and when the Government had been askedjby implication here, and directly elsewhere, what tliey intended to do with them, what was the reply?: .Well, nothing more than that they did not recognise Buch a thing as likely to occur! And yet it was when the country was in such a state, and the Government so helpleee, that they were asked to postpone the meet-, mg of I'atliament next year. Then let the House look at the other parts of tiie : financial Bclieme, at the new revenue bill—a measure which tlie hon. member for Selwyn bad well told them was one of greater importance than any otlier which had beeft introduced this session—a measure which would utterly clip the wings of the provinces, They bad got to .gee h..w;.th«t bill wouid;work;: Agaiu, they had been asked to borrow more money to carry on the ordinary business of the country, and he «as perfectly sure that «e long they would have to borrow much more largely for tiie same purpose. Was this a state of things under which to postpone the sitting of Parliament ? Then again lie might fairly tak.-. exeep' ion to. the estimates: they were of more than doubtful , reliability. He was perfectly convinced that the ordinary' revenue would not reach to nearly /the amount the 'treasurer calculated on, yet they wire told -that the Govern-' Kent had only a margin of some £1,500 '6ft. Was it reasonable that under such circumstance* tln-y should be asked to give up their next meeting? He could, easily understand that the Hon.: Treasurer would i rather he without tla m ; it was i'nly natural, for no doubt they were excessively troublesome to him, but-still lie (Mr Reeves) believed that the tmuble was tothe honourable gentleman's advantage as well as to the advantage of the couniry. He trusted how"cr > that the II use would not listen to the Wandishinuus of the Hon. the Treasurer or be led by tlie advice of certain of his supP°rter.«, but that- every member would Seriously consider his duty to. his constituents and to tlie colony, anil would neithur regard the c'HiviMiiencc of tlie Government nor their own; tiai tliey would not be led away °y any talk of paltry savings, or by any f alse sentimiiit: about the waste of time I i, c 'i "dghi take pt 'Ce in conducting the busine-fs of the country, He begged to move "leresoluiion stannicg in bis name, Mr Vogel -seconded: themtion.

. Motion iiiKiic, ami question proposed," That jn the op nioi) of Una it in inexpedient ™*tthe :ippr 'pri.itibng.of : levenue should «Jnd bcyo,vt tl,, peiio:l of the current financial ii'.ir."—(Mr Kveves.) . ' Mr Uai.x cou',l not allow Hie motion to p"8 vritl„.„i pi ,yi„g a few w-nls on it. His taend the < VWurer lia i expressed' J'w oj.mio son i lie subjort, nnd he dosired now io cxirrss his. He wiis simply cx piessiiig wiiai his own. individual , pinirin v 'is; lie certainly thought tkt the lion.mim-

her for Avon.had dwelt, somewhat too much on only one side of the question; There wero advantages on both sideb and the House, should fairly consider both Bides before they cume to ft decision, If llio circumstance! of the. colony, were such as to .render it possible to dispense with an annual session of' Parliament, .there, was no doubt; that ii . very considerable money saving would lie effecte:! and much vahinble time would also be,■saved' It might iiotbepossible to trace the raltic of tile time lost .by boil, members in their attendance in t!»ut House in actual accounts ■ but he hid no doubt it was. large, liiiil | tint mmli time was spent there, which might be more profitably.-employed elsewhere. It wjis also undeniable that, the Government would liuve more time tireonsolidiitethe orgnnizalion of tiie machinery of Government. The b giiiuiiig of one eos-im now followed ; so closely tin the end of another that the Government had barely time to look around them I tlie interval, aiid it was witli : the greatest difficulty that ministers could do what was reaMy. required for. the purposes- of cliicient government.. 'I hey should not f 0 get these : advantages: but at the same time they, could lint slmt their eyes to the fact that they Hi a -country, (hi! circumstances of •w nc,j ch-iiiged most rapidly, anil never at any time in. tlie history of the colonv, so fur -as any one could tell, were important- organic changes more certainly impending than now; ine Government hail.been pressed to take steps wliich they had not thought it right or advisable to take; but at the same tune they could not slmt their ears to . war ninga which reached them from various parts of the colony—that Lirjje aiid important constitutional changes were not distant. He was not, therefore, himself in favour of delaying the meeting of Parliament heyoii l (lie usual period, as under tlie circumstances of the colony he did not think it would be right to do so. There was another reason why they should not do so, . and it was one wliich would Le appreciated by his honourable friend the member for the Goldfields. If they postponed the meeting of tlie Assembly tliey would render necessary an- increase in the legislative powers of Provincial Councils, and he did not think that a desirable course, or one they ought to take. 'I here was a balance of advantages; but, for himself, lie thought the balance inclined towards ihe meeting at the usual time, it was a point, however, on which the Government should not refuse to accede to the desire of the House. If the House wished not to meet at the usual time, the Government would be bound to make arrangements accordingly.

Mr Vogel having been referred to wished to say a word or two, The danger the hon. member had referred to iniglii exist if there was a Government with provincial tendencies in bffiee, hut certainly no one could accuse the present Government of such a thing. He thought the effect of not meeting would rather be to some extent to establish a des potism. All tho arguments he had heard in favour, of not meeting annually, simply amounted to what tliey already knew, that constitutional government was not the cheapest form of government, They were quite aware of that, but they had been-con-stantly told to regard representative government, as. the most valuable jewel they possessed, and now, when asked to put of! the meeting of that House, they-were, lie thought, rather, asked to undervalue it. They knew that as. a rule people throughout the colony looked to Parliament for redress from vrrongs inflicted during the recess, and if tliey now postponed the opportunity of seeking that redress, the effect would be to weaken those feelings of love towards aud reliance oil constitutional means, which it should be the duty of those who wished representative institutions to flourish, to inculcate. He believed that throughout the colony there was much calm endurance of serious evilsj in the hope of redress when the Assembly met. It was true the hope was generally fallacious, but still it existed. He was glid that, notwithstanding the member, for Wairarapa had first "put. forward .the proposal, the Government did not intend to support it.

Mr. Fitzherbkrt thought the hon. member shewed the weakness of his very lams case when lie talked of » despotism, and so did.the other hon. gentleman when ha talked ■of' Parliament beings swept away, when no one had any idea of such a. tliiag, when it was proposed that Parliament should not meet within the year. Then, again, the same gentlsman talked of the saving as a trifle. £20,000 a trifle ! Well, if it was a trifle, hoiv was the House occupied last Friday, when it was going—and very properly going —to divisions on sums of £SO and £IOO ? Surely it was rather inconsistent to do so, if they could afford to regard £20,000 as a trifle—a paltry sum! The remainder of the arguments of the hon. member 1 had been directed against hhnstlf personally and the policy he had enunciated. If ;the hon member did not like that policy why did he not come down and propose a better one to the House.? TheGovermnent had a right to assume that the House was contented .with .the policy; or elie the House ■ had b>en guilty of inconsistency equal to that of the hon. member for Avon himself, and bad been false to the country. There were far more cogent reasons in favour of the motion: than those the hon. member; had urged, but he had not urged them. The; policy generally, and in detail had been carried by very l.arge majorities; and. the Government was justified in concluding that hon. members did not vote for what they did 'hot approve : of. Even if occasionally forced to vole in a division on a question they did not altogether approve of, there were many ways of; testifying that disapproval, and there was no necessity for voting with such majorities as 36 and 42 to 16. There was no rtason to make so many members vote for a Government they disapproved of. The hon. member bad no right to make the observations he had made; but no doubt he disliked the-Govern-ment, and, like many other discontented members, he wanted to sound a note of defiance at the. end of the session. ?. The hon.' member 's own expectations might hare been disap ■■■ pointed, but he thought it was an indisputable fact that they did too much legislation . and too little administration in New Zealand; They heard the complaint; on;all sides, and it had not been answered, for it was impossible to ariswer.it. It might be quite right of the House to say honestly and openly that it had not confidence to. trust the ;Government : for' more than a few months. That would be 'quite intelligible, and if they would speak out, the Government would be quite willing to yield and to obey, but they could not deny -that the : Houß(s niet too ofteri.i He did not approveof the bulk of the exaggerated legislation ■which every session gave birth to. They were, unable to cpntrol.it, ahd.it was becoming an intolerable burden to the country. It was ■impossible.to master,or; to.understand it, and;: | for that reason good men were giving up the: ■attempt and;ceasing; to take a part • in. public : | affairs/ ,'There was one who, from the earliest times of representatira Government in the colony, had taken an active part in its affairs; stated publicly last session that he could not I cope with the mass of legisUtion. and so they, had lost him. This objection had not been answered, because it was unanswerable. And there' were 'other reasons in favour of- le-s frequent sessions, while the? only valid one against it was: that the House generally had noL gufßcieiit coiifidence in .tlie Government to trust it so lo: g, ; The crop of bills which sprang into existence every session was somotliing frightful—neither the Government nor the House lmd time or opportunity maturely to Qpnsider. thein. To. do so was physically 1 and: intelleetu.i ly impossible, and they should also consider the fact that most of the members of that House were also members of Provincial Legislatures,.ni; which tliey were called to pnss not.less-tlmn two months in the ye.ii,so tlmt actually half their time was spent in legislation. No wonder , that;there was a growing, a daily increasing, want of public men fit for the position'. It was quite impossible that such a state of things should continue long Passing by the glaring inconsistency of the lion member.in '..stating at.one.timc! thai the policy of the Government was to diminish the P'.wer of t : e Provinces, and tit another th it they had no policy at all, he would ask him on what he founded his assertion 1 that, the present Government intended to deprive, the .Provinces of their legislative powers, it might suit the hon. member and others to make such assertions; but it was the

duly of public-men, however the lim members might despite the precepts or pru'.itice of expediency, to . work, out what, they J™' 1 ! 'ii'd:when the lion member sad, We have a Government which will not lead, but follows suit;" .bo paid them a very high compliment: It iyas iiot for tlie Government iJj>- lead public (ipiiiiori; it was rather -for ■ thein to follow it. VVlut was tlie Pre** for ? yv.here was public opinion J i iimiit nut a .public- opinion to bo formed ? lim tlie Legislature made laws faster than public ophijon could gii with it I lie consequence wiis thai many Acts were waste paper. There were nine provinces, each with a 'Lcgishiturej, and thpy should be, allowed to do a portion of tlie workbut as it had. been niiiii that every, moment a child was horn, anil suriie onedieil, so there was scarce a moment in New Zealand in Vvhiclh some new piece of legislation was not being hatched. The reason why lie I made the remarks he did the oi her night was because the Hmise was eiiriiest in its desire for retr. nehmeot. lie indicated iii a geiicral way how £50,000 miijlit be suvtd • yet now -ail- lion, member; who had bean tumid dividing against an expenditure of £SO on a previous eveiiing, declared £2o,out) to lie a jinOre bagatelle. He would not sway the House one way or the other ; biit if was an opin on lie had iong held and lie would maintain that the ..Constitution Act hail net been carrie l out in this reject. Ashe read the Constitution.-: Act it-meant that the .Provincial Councils .■should attend annually to the pressing wants of -the country ; but tl.at the General Assembly should, not necessarily meet aniiu'illy. Annual meetings of Ihe Assembly for five! six, and even seven m'inth's would no doubt .come in due course, but the-time was not yet; and meauwhile the provincial portions of the •country were being strangled. If they had not sufficient vitality let that be made mauifust in the natural course of events. lii arguing against an annual meeting of the Assembly he had expressed his own views entirely without reference to his colleagues ; but if SOtlie extraordinary contingency were to arise, as the sequestration of a province, it would be theduty of tlmGovernment (o summon the Assembly immediately. But he took a more hopeful view of j\!ew Zealand than those who indulged iii their dreary vaticinations, There might be a temporary depression nmv in some parts of the colony, but there was a counteracting prosperity in other parts; and lie kutiW that in time past there had been periods of depression wliich would never have been tided over if there had not been hearts of oak to met them. The lion, member bad raised the question, and he was glad of it, ior .it would not be left to be decided by a thin House.

Mr liusxr mid that it had been asserted that some observations which fell from him on a previous occas'on were thrown out by liim as a feeler on the part of the Government; but he begged to say that that was not the truth, for he had then expressed his own views on the spur of the moment, lie had been called a supporter of supporters oi the present Government, ft was true lie had supported them, and lie might, say that overtures of a flattering nature hud been made to lu.ni, at the comm-jncemeut of the session, to join in opposing them-, hut lie had refused. VVliea he had disagreed with the Government he said so; but lie would, strongly support tlicni even against his < >wti views, rather than see the lion, member for tlie Goldfields and those who aeted with him. sitting iii their place. He was of opinion, that the Assembly should hot meet so often as once a year, for the members of the government had scarcely time at tile close of the session to recruit themselves, and consider what new measures they would bring forward, before the Assembly was summoned' again. It was also to be borne in mind that many members of the House were also in L-rOyjneial Councils, and that the tax oii tlielr time was too great, lie believed it would: be a great benefit to the country for the Assembly not to meet before March, 1869; it wouid save some £20,000 to the coluny, and save us, for a year at least, from a fluod of, to a great extent;,useless and uncalled for legislation. Major Atkinson said, in allusion to a remark of Mr Filzherbart's, that the policy of the Government had been affirmed by a large majority; that lie. had voted for measures. which he did not think were likely to be beneficial, but he had not acted against li s conscience, for he had to choose between the present occupants of the Ministerial lienches and a set of men who, he thought, would do the country harm. Mr FrraiEBBERT said that what he bad stated was, that nothing had been said hitherto to explain away the large majorities whieh the Government had obtained ; for an hon, member was not b.rnnd to reeord his vote,. Major Atkinson said lie would vote for the motion, because lie thought that the state of the country was such that it would be advisable to meet next year; but lie quite Conceived that under other circumstances it might be advisable to delay the session. Motion agreed to.