GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XXVIII, Issue 2111, 26 September 1867, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSR OF v;' WEDNEBpiT AKD. ThOBBDATJ SEPT. 4 AND 5.; . Mr Hui ■■'.: [continued]— With; ...regard to the postal expenses,.about..which sdmfe: thing;.has : :been' :; 'iaid *. that.■,.;»" certainly. a very expensive service 's■■ but'it muit be remembered that a large share, of ..it; is actually under contract. '}.'■ The Panama; ser-; vice, forinstance,;which costs, ,£55,000. a-year, : is contracted ; forfive, years;,; As; for; otherpostal services; •what ','■■ l said- r witK. .regard;to Resident Magistrates will also; apply, here. The ire luxurious in tlie: matter,and,.taken byitfeliVthis iragood; sign, as indicating (wniiderable progress in civilization. Ido not. think : ithere.is another country in the world where such.demands for' postal accgmmodation'areihsisted.upouasin; New Zealand, The cbeerpf the hon.: member for Hampden reminds me of a case:, in which- * reduction was. .attempted:; which,, ph. its: mfritßj was. justifiable. It gave rise, to so many, appeals,. aiidv.t6.;.-w6h''''''ear.neit',.'re-' rponitrahces,; in, .which,; the Troyihcial Go-, yernment joined, that the Government were; induced to give way : especially wheii they.; bad an application: to that effect from the Provincial Government which had to bear the cost. Generally-in the case of. mail services,; the..more service jof;that kind is.giVen :the tnonjitequired.;-. Places having' a ; 'weekly? *<srvice alwayswaht a ler'viceJtwice a week j : these again '.'demand', 'a ■ service three times a week ; aud,those places .which.'have a mailthree timesa week, are always msißting.upbn. haying one every day.■.."■'■ That iß : all;very:well;' itis a sign of prosperity, of progresi, .and of the education --./ of ;.the .country.; ,;That J! a reason for the-great, amount,of postal estimates. The;:hprii,,membe;r;for Franklin was particularly .hard on the Postal depart-; ] "lent, and other members : .frbm ihe.North *poke in the Bame strain.. ;Now.l, ; will.:.make: a suggestion to ;him;. If there is one mail■ service which;-can- -be"better-spared'than another, considering: the.number'of letters it. carries, it is .the .'service from Sydneyto. Auckland. Wiethe houourablelgentlemahgive a proof, of his sincerity by..moving that that service be struck off-thei-estima'tes ? I,

may take credit to himself.tliat a. very:large savingw illvbe,;effected in thepaymentsbythe colony iii future years on '.account of the Suez line., :We haTeithis y«artp pay a-'large. sum for arrears ..due: for account of 1866 j but (he contribution ip the Suez line will after this jear be reduced from £22,000 or •£23,000 to £2,000 or AObb; Here willbe a saving of £20,000: effected', anil in conse-.. quence mainly of the measures taken by the. present Government;''... The. lion, member for Dunedin is...ian'otli'er" instance that while, honourable gentlemen declaim about .Govern-' ment expenditnre,. they, are: .'themselves' in some measure responsible for it, At the.be-, ginning of the present session: he p.ropoted-..t0 reduce conaidtrably : .'the. present light-dues collected for the maintenance of lighthouses. These establishments are being.maintained M a consi(ieral)le>bßt;aiid.:the light-dues are barely auilicieiit to defray this and; payy a trifling interesion'the.cost of■ tlieir'construcV win. Ilia proposal .to reduce, these dues m e»ns that for benefit of a particular Bervi(:e we general taxation'.-of the. country, should be increased. Tlielion, member, lias been one.of thei loudest .in..jiiis complaints of 'the amount «f Government .expenditureand taxaiion. Mr Maik sairj:that| in tiie atoerjco of the

Hon. member for Dunedin, he might, be permitted to explain what he meant. .It.was not that the dues were in themselves heavy, but that they fell heavy on a.particular class of vesseli. Vemla. of a particular class, trading between the Bluff and Auckland, had to pay; twice. ''■ ■ . ■'■■. ■:/■';.' .:■.'' '

~..Mr Hall: What the hon. memlier:for : . Dunedin said went to a general reduction "j: but it might hare been his immediate, object to relieve 'that particular class of Vessels. When honourable gentlemen hear complaints of the .excessive coit of; the; Coloniall.Govern.' ment, they.ought in fairness to impress theuj:constituents how.it isTthat the;piople ; themselves arc in a great measure responsible this expenditure..:.' liv addition to.ullthii,: we 'should bear;in mind that we are paying the penaltyof our past proceediiigs. ! T!i«-interestoivtlie-Wiir loans alone makes taxation- : heftTyr Thore is still aiiotherreasonfor. it:--' ■Session' after .'session, and; year ;have eyeryfewmonihs had anew Government, s 1 did believe that-Hhese incessant; chauges must, have a most pernicious effect oh the service of the colony •, ;but since: Ibecaniea member of .the; ; Government; liavefouud,that'it is far worse.even .than i liad any idea of;.«Is .there, the- ;siightest;eii- : couragemeiitto any Government, to/itiitmtd.plans forcnsuririgeconomy and improvement;i .■ when;,there is .no reasonable /hope that it; will live to:see them carried ; out,biit that tliis ; ; will;deTolye.%bn;Buccessors holdingdifferaiit' ; views,; and: to: their , ; work I. /Vndor ohr: hardly any Minister haß:.tinie.to become acquainted with' the merits of Government'staff to;se<J; ffho;iß.the;rjghtman;tp.:putin,the : riglit ; place before,his;time goneV It is allhaphazard . I--could, jut., my.which this system hasiosttliecolonyjpf.New, .Zealand.. Iwill-now:sayione word :on;taxa'tiou,:upon, which, subject :we:l)ad a:ch6rus"of: yoicesfroni various sides of'the Housed The: member for; Selwyn-fto u wji6m; : J refer so. often because, there is more in hisjspeechthat' ; is worth itliatv iii;'inositol tjie ; otherßr;Ba}d thatthe taxation' of ..the.oolotiy :wasjinfairnand .unequal';'but.■iic./ougiitV.tbhave .added ■that -the-.^preseht : ':GoyerrimehV has already commenced to reform iby intra-' ducing.stamp duties.' ;I do not:;tliiiiklie:will. : ask:us to. go f ufther--to,impose ah income tax,'; :for ; 'heiihußt/ know ..that tliere.-.is :iiibt;the : . slightest proljabilitjr of (such a proposal;being; ■adopted. . ;He asserts tliat the present taxation. :makes the; cost; of production so/great that, the producer cannot produce at a profit..:.ln.. :the.first:.place;'Sir, I think the, honourable; gentlecuan.has somewhat overstated the case, ;.Tlie taxation.of the country' is;about : 'a.niiK lion; or;hearly;is perhead, of .the-population.; It is enid.tlitvt a fartper'ctvhnot grow wjiieat : trj: ; a. ; proflt;beeauße;he pay s,>£s: a year faxes, An.Hp'n Member—There is a tax oh the labourers employed. Mpßale,:. Even- then, taxation, would be of less, moment in tlie cost of production: than. the greatreduction:which has taken place jn the-cbsfrof .living. ;;The honpurable:gentie-: man .would resort to direct. taxation.: Where; Vpuld;thatf fall?; ! It;would : : fall mainly;on the(.land,;and. would, impose;/a; farlheavier, ib'urtheii on the':/producer Ithan: the-indirect'. taxes' from which it is' proposed' i.o ielierei him. .- ■ ■

; Mr;STEyßss;::WiU;the : .hoiiburabl(Bvgentler' : i man tell me.wh'ere;l proposed:, that?. .; i ;-&HUE.':;.;TJM ; : honourable gentleman did ; 'i not;prdpose.it : in so many .worde,but that.was "■' thedirect.ihferenca.fromhisargutnerit..' The '] member, for :.Nelson'Suburbs:has:s'tated that ') tlie. taxatiph Of this colony is. in i.exces's even; ;j of that of the United Statespf America; i »Tliehonourablegentlernan.said hederiTed'his. I . mformatioMrom a Newspaper;. Emay; there- :i fore quote -1 :that assertion. I am;ab6ut:to quote from, an. ' article, taken..fromthe■:■ London ;_Times,:mi. ■: one-based, upon it 'raisa',' this.';great ' .8um.'(309,'410,932 Ms.) it has been found: : '{ .'necessary to. ,iinp»se:a tax; upon every article ''' of common dMly.usej andupbn aimdst.eyery ; profession^or\trade;C Every.ihbpkeeper'is; '■■ obliged to.tekeouta.licenserT-thedressiiiaker, :■' pays hearyduties on. theraw materialof .her '■';[ trade, and. then -in ad valorem dutyonevery' ;■ dress she ; makes up. 'The duty on articles. • imported from : Europe.iis now on an 'average; -i 60 per cent. Bankers.are required to pay ■; 100 dols.'for dols.'to*{2oo dols., and-.thevline.is'thrown' ■; out; so far that it; reacheß;classesiike trayel-;' i lingiugglers, ;who'■.mustpay ; 3odols;.before 1 they ;are,allowed"tp !;swaUoYf in;. the.stieets. while lawyers are,bnly yalued: at; : lb .dols. a-pieee.", With' reference, to this, ■■ ..theiCanterbury Press ot the Ist Noy., 186.6j . remarks.;—': The taxation therefore of the .popujatipn.was : last..year upwards of £1 per : head;.;and. :t6,tbiß.;mus'.t. -be-adde'd; the. taxes Rafted by :tiie;State]egislature8 f and the rates collected for local, purposes by the'townships.-.- . We.haye nonreturn : ; beforeus ■. pfihe two ia.tter;and they,vary Very largely/indifferent States; and in .different: townships; but it- is. welLkndwhthat .these local charges are far from .light, sp : that the whole burden "of,. taxation ...laid ■; onrihe", public must 'be - ; at ;l least ,50;-per ;;cent; more 'than, that paid.b; the people:of New Zealand. At : a". time : : iwheh'.so; : great a stress, is being. . laid-on the amount of taxation under which': ■ New. ' is : .Buierihg,s it: is ■curious to observe how differently, the. same subjectu::regarded; by .the '■■■■ colonistsi of another hemi'sphere,yrhd haYe. always, been .regarded as moreimpatient of taxation than- any people in the world; The Americans, we are told, father "glory:.in.;pay|ne....an ;enormoui';income-tax •tUan in trying to evade it.'" twill noiadopt: thewprds of complained of the people's "ignorant impatience of t'axatibn|" because it is by no means un-; natural that they should be impatient of the; taxation we have to:.bearin this colony; but T.thintit. is hot; sufficiently considered that' :ireedbm fromtaxationug: not the only thing ■which makes a country a profitable or desir-i :able one to lire in; Some of the;most highly taxed countries in the'.world are nevertheless the mostwealthy and prosperousi;,;proyided always'the' v ;money raised, by taxation is ;emjplpyedfor'the real : is; by no means an ..unmitigated evil.;' There are many-;un'dertaldngJV,'.whichj..can'>:'only;be' ;c>rried;6ut by common : xbntributioni"in the; way ; bf: taxation, which largely benefit; the community at■ large'.and.more■■ than/repay; ;the;;rnpney;raised by :taxatwn—telegraphs: 'for! .instance, or - lighthouses?::,. It 'might, be well worth while to. add; taxes, if necessary,; 'for .those therefore;' look,upon'large taxation as being always and of .itself an unmixed evil.. Our mother coun-; ■try, notwithitanding she is very highly taxed, .iß.u'ndoubtedly'ohe of .the most prosperous in the world. ..I admit .thoroughly that, everything depends on how the ; money ii;spent. 'We ought not to tax except'for: really useful ;and/esiential'.purpoMi.--VTN"' m ? , ober.:for . Gladstone,:whohasshad'.■experienceinthese : .questions,has .given the Government.creditfor having'studied economy during; this past : year. -In looking over .the estimates for, the; 1 currehtjyear, I: think It -will.;also;be found ■that economy has been carried as far aspos-j sible without impairing the efficiency of the , public service. I will now say a word respecting the member for Franklyn, who described the financial arrangements of 1856:.as a: , broken:bargain? I give that ■ assertion my jmpst emphatic and solemn denial. ..The Hon. member for ..the Bay of/.lslands, with consi;derable ingenuity, has endeavoured to shew; . that : it.;was 'riot "■'a:-bargain;'at/all,, because a iminorityVdid not; agree ; to"U; : I.reply that '.when..a bargain is made by .two different communities—say. two nations or,. districts—- : the majority; binds ..the minority, .as inuall . .other' actions., common to the,community; But will hon,; members ..'look at the division. list on the Financial Resolution of 1856, and arrangement, certainly; not: : ; the ayes were .].9;affifrning the whole of -the resolutions ; r the noes werei 10, and. .amongst. the noes./the. only Auckland members.were MrDaldy and Mr Henderson: On the;other.:side,,l : "flhd Major.Greenwppd, Mr Campbell,:: Mr.lee, Mr ,WilKamsori,;'MrTaylbr, ; Mr/Merrimnn,. iind. Mr .Carleton. A large/ majority, of 'the;. Auckland; members 1 were parties to that arrangement—an "arrangement; under.;:which; ; Auckland- ; ii.dp, nbtv.say;:re-; ceived.as'rnuchfas: South—r.conld'npt prbtend,anything:pf the .kind,; as : the barpnin bus-turned, out an excellentonefor the South j, but.Auckland;haß received; certain siitns for the; "purchase;; of ■ Native ' lands.-' uiider. that arrangement, 'and has moreover

been relieved;; of / certain :: payments; on aecountM >the: New/Zealand ..Company's debt,V ; s;.;:.; . ■■ : -:^:\:J ',/. :<V.'.'v-:. S:Alr;WiuuMsoN;.: Ilpw-nniich ?; : :: Jliat=:is not'tha; point; if it ;were' only ajsliilling, it would hot matter, '. The.lion.,n%mbpr had better >'iiit' until it, is explained -before he, .crow'B'tdo niiicti;:.-: .-■: J ;. : v

:;Mr .Hall: > I have nb;doubt tho lion. roehK :.ber::will:liave.his:crow, presently, itis.not■!■ ;wlio; have: now raised.the .question,.but; 1 .assert most distinctly tlmt this.compaciis Ml ..bindinginlipnour and.prineiplbasany\bargain eniv possibly. ;he.. If I;believcd;thnt a majority of the. niertiburs froin tlie Nortlr - .shared.tho views and. principles enunciated -by tliip hop, member for Newton, I, for-onc,: AVOiild; be ho party to, the Treasurer's p'ropor sals, i.haveagreed to thembecnuse I entirely . disbelieved that : those: gentlemen share, tlie. (liegraceful sentihichts .enunciated'"'by the; ■ lioiu hiemb, r. The debute, Sir; tomyiriinil,. ; iillujtrates very 'forcibly, one : bf ;the ■ great-. difficulties of carrying pi) tlie .Government of" tlie colony of New Zealand. Those, of ml. wlio.take apart in pub|ic,.affairs live, for,the great er ; pnrt of tlie year f .fr a par tV We'do riot meet together sufficiently, to enable us, , JBxeep.tfbr.'avery short iiine,. to interchange. ;idea's and.facts respecting the, various parts, •of tins '.peculiarly constituted.colony';;' -thus-to■ become possessed ot a. fair average amount .of information,'and: form well-considered ■■■■ I opinions upqh' questions which iiiitect tlie i colony as a whole,. We live so inucli scattered .abbflt;-in--wiiM'.raay'ij.e called' a village, and spend so great.a partof our days there, that -we can. hardly help forming narrow and ; local views.and. prejudices; and then. we. come up '- to the. General Assembly grouped intp a dozen .different sections, tach full of its own opinipna ;arid most disinclined to iisten to any other, : ,or to Concede., those, cbmpromiseß of opinipna and interests. without which no .Government can.; lie properly carried; on. Wo ignore the general obligation devolving, on ;memberß of a,, political' party to 6ink;minpr differences in order to carry out. the great .principles which it agrees upon. This debate .has brought.,out very, forcibly these;' facts, : which,are,..! conceive, one.reason why we 'have been so frequently; changingjgovernments in this; colony. Ido hope these evils . '.yi'ill-bb isomewhat lessened by tlifediflusion bf tlie in.fbrraatibu as to the precceuiDgß of .Parliament which by iiieans of 'tlie Hansard is to be circulated thrpughout tliecbuntry. I .will only say in conclusion -that one of the main..advantages which I claim for the proposals; pi.tlieVGovernmcnt is the extent to which they;, will remove; sources of heart-" burning and .dissension bet\veeii various portioua of the colony at large, and.will.enable ■us to- meet ■ and act together for-the good of the whole; and it is for these reasons ;that. j sincerely hppe : they will be adopted by the House, I- hope hon. members :will not forget, .the considerable .financial;;;aiid 'other'_. difficulties-, by which; liave no fear ■'< for;it, if we:.wiU. bnly.lay aside, these, petty, local opinions and feelings which; have so long been the .bane of our New Zealand politics. ;I:have;np..fear for the colony if'we cap so ; conduct our political discussions as' to have ' ■the of; tlie affairs of the country. ehtrusted.tQ tlie hands of honest,prudent, '. ; : and .patriotic. : nieny who believe in bur resources, .butwiil husband tlieiii thoroughly;.; 'and if; tlie, people-, anil.Parliament will not ■recognise the 'great'necessity there Is.'for a ■ strong. Goyer'nmenti there is a.dangerpf find- . ihgthesebeiiches occupied by .those who will. ;.adopt:acts which we will not descend to, to , maintain themselves in .possession,' .and, ■ greatest diinger'pf all, who will endeavour, in order 1 to secure support, to heap still further incumiirances. on the Colony; which, the countfy.willbeunable-fo.diach . "million to, this:province and lialf-a-milliph to that,,without ..much regard ,as to hpwit is to.. . ;h.e paid, and without any-regard :how it is to. ■< ;b9.Bperit-;8o long;as its disbursernentiecuree ■■ .the purchase pi temporary popular fayour. In;spiteof ,tbe.iaaterial; Jdifßcultieaiwithiwhich ;.tb'e coloriyis surrpurided, I have full faith; in,; itaVfutufe well-being, if pnlyiitis energetically, tfaithf ully/ arid honestly governed. .'/'"'.''■' ) :Mr :: Rmas; hon., the Colonial Treasurer 'cbhcluded' his very able. ob«ervatibn : : that; he commended it to ■ the favourable consideration: of the House, From: (Mr Reeves)'fcqhsidereditbe- ; came: thei'dutypf.every member of the House, ■ ■botli;'tff:that.hph,. gentleman' and to Ms.own' : constituents; to give all the attention:, that he : was capable of to ; the scope and details, of the statement, and. if he had anything to say on , the subject to Bay it. In considering the general scope of the statement, he had felt it necesiary to consider also the other measures that were.cpnnected with itj the -whole policy infact-oftlieGovernment, of whichit formed a. part; and he. was the more led to take that viewbf.the question from the fact that the hon. gentleman at.the head of'the Government stated on an pecasipri. when he. addressed a very considerable number; bf the; members of the ■' House, that the financial : statement formed.a^most.impprtantpart : bf the proposed measures of the,Government—ib;fact, that it was the keystone of ;fearch; Whehhe took: a broad View of thes .measures, of :■ the: Gdyerhmeht; and : from; thence, proceeded'. to consider the financial statement;-he.was met at, the., putset,by a'yerf apparent difficulty;; Jit db,came cleartbhimat' : once, that: the..present rfirianpial statement ■fprmbd : ;bo. part of \the original',scheme ■ the ::; Govpraraeiit;' ; thought th>t;it would:;^^be^^.admitted generally .intrqduced.wero'essentially auti-provinciaii he might - say. aggressively"» 6; The ; Local Governmeht intrdducad intothe Housey'wasjspee'dily: discovered ~to". he'Tery: crudelandJimperKct; '.lt'Vrag-iee'n .tb:be.a : death blow it the provinces, and thb House rejected-it.vpn that aeooiin't. When that . measurewas rejected, a ;mv financial scheme became .necessary; and if eTidence : was wanted;:to;prove what he .cierit tb.poin't tothe-fact. that a : large-number: bf*"the; most; earnest" suppdr't'eri" of 'the': of. .the 7 doverhment; .at'once'.rejected'; the. new. financial measures. ;He,:!alluded..:tb this, fact; in 'order.; to explain;.;,what, to., his ,mind ; accounted for: the .yery.iheff ectiye and .unfb.rtuhoite mea-. :sure,which;had now been : brbught'Jdpwn to; the House,:: He; thought that the;Gorerrirnerit totally misunderstood; the Jfeelingipf ". the country and the;feeling of the. Home. The .real desire of : the:cpuntry;,as.hr as he under- ; stood it,:was; to.;be/relieved of the burden..'ot. some of the taxatmm',. It mightbe considered mererepetitionvfor: hirri to"say'whatj-nearly: every member.who';;,had got iip to J speak;, on 1 . the subject but! he.miist say: that ;the country : was from the .very'heaTy..taxation;which'was.'imposed ; it;■■'• Therepbuld b.euip all : byents ..there, was none in lits mindr-that; the prodUc- ■■ .tive interests;of-the ;cpuntry ;/ wijr : e being seriously endangered,;aud- that employers' of labour were suffering very ;much/:from: the weight of taxation.. Hewoiild be glad if-'he- • could indorse the view takenby: his .honour-' able friend the.;member forWestlahd of the state of the country, but he was quite uriableto do so;;. As far as he knew.the couditionof ■ ..his own province, he .believed there was bo one single, interest, 'whether : ihey;; took .the • pastoral, commercial,," mercantile, trading, ;or any productive..interest, Ihat -was not in .r ) wjerse;: condition ;at the:.present time; tlinn- - 'ij;. was ;three,years, before;■.>He:;'beiieved'' >■ tliatv.there was not.one out:of .twenty. ■ of -the -population J'who;' wasi pot ■'': in a" • "worse condition now tlian.at that and he i. believed that there were thpußiindsi-.'of; ineiv ■ ■ :who were loßing'the'labbiir«'.;l.pf''a::-l'ongVterni :; ' .. and ; ; were'. becoming. .:\dißappbißte(l.'->m-'-'''. the I attainment'-; of the .and..reasonable \ objects which brbiight'them into the cpiintry. ! But. that was nottlieonly ..eril bf -taxation! !, An hon..inember had referred' to an artiolciiv

. a London papcr.and that: article had.ciiuglit his eye also, arid;; lie had no doubt, flxedahe attention of hundreds of others; more.?eapc- . cially. in the jiome country...When, it could no longer ;bei concealed invEiiglnnd that New Zealand was theliigheat taxedcountry iri the world save one, (ioutd it :be supposed,:.that it .wbuld be nriy longer looked; to as:; a refuge forthat large;class. wholly, from; the : \burdeiis and poverty of the.:, old world ?\ Certainly, hot; and it was.rneedless. to,observ«Jtliat it was upbri)inimigratibn;and;upon. theinflurof capital and. labour thatstlie progress ■ ot the colony/depended; il«: could only look .upon the financial statement as a groat mistake,

and as reverting to a system of compromise and/expediency which lit had hoped the present Government had cast aside for ever, ilVlicn'.-lie looked back to the promise they werq led to, Ijeliere would be realized—tlmt a stringent economy would he exercised, and a I large reduction in the expenditure made, unci / tlmt they might hope and expect that the time had ceased when they wove to borrow ■money to curry on the ordinary expenses .of U Government—when he looked buck to-tli's he-.could only say that he, in common, with, thousands of others in the colony, was grievously disappointed with the present financial policy. They had heard a l/gpodMcal even in the present debate about I prpvincialists. and centralists. He believed lie: was: as sincere and as rational aproiyiiicialist as: could bo found in that House, butlie was certainly not disposed to keep up ;or increase /the taxation of the country, and still .'less., was. he disposed to enter into the ■market: as; a; borrower to encourage extravagaiico, in ..the Provincial Governments. .Tliore;, : wcre .hundreds of reasonable ami rational men. in this country who wero attached to the/system of Provincial Government, but whose main object was to curb the extravagant; tendencies of those Govern-. -mehtsj.and.thosb men looked to this Government; for; support in their reasonable endeavours; but lie was sorry to say they had not. got it.; ;Ab he had said, he was a rational /provincialist; but he objected to Provincial Governments: keeping up the expensive shadow of provincial institutions after the substane'ejhad/departed. He objected entirely to : the colony, being saddled with expensive forms of government which were dead, and from/which, thespirit had departed. As he 'understood: the functions of Provincial Governments, they were mainly to carry on : tlie work of' settlement of the colonization and occupation- of the country. When Provincial Governments ceased to be able to do that; then their functions had essentially ceased, and the machinery should be swept away; He-maintained that the country looked to. the Government to propound some inteiligibleVsome bold scheme by which that ■could be effected. In that,thecountry had been entirely disappointed. Instead of propounding ■a:.sclie.rne' of that kind, the Government had occupied: the leisure of the recess in constructing one. which was intended to sap the foundation of- those provinces which had legitimate : wbrk..[still to perform; and when thaV'scherae' failed to be carried out, thoy bringdown a financial statement which does its best; rp; keep'-up, at the expense of the coioiiy, dead forms of government which have no work'tb aq:prno funds to do it with. He believed the country would be exceedingly disappointed with that financial statement. He liellaved'thuy would recognise that the ■Government bad not had the courage to meet the difficulties of their position, ami that they had tided over /..those*difficulties by running the colony further into debt, and by initiating a course of extravagance which he was certain public opinion .would not endorse, From what lie had; said, it would be evident that ■lie objected to'.; those details of the scheme which were'\tp...carry out the objectionable features—that is to say, features of compromise, It had been proposed by the Government that certain balances due by the provinces to the.cblony should be wiped out. ■'For'.his' own part, he confessed that he did hot see on what ground the custodian of the public purse could make that use of the public mdney>/' Mle desired that the province, a portion of which he represented, should meet that claim, and that, if it were possible, others should do the same. He confessed lie saw the difficulty of the position; but lie tho.ught.a way. might be fount by which they could do so without embarrassing themselves. Ho would rather that the money owiug by the South, should be paid, and that owing by the North, should remain over but not be wiped' out. He objected altogether to the'scheme of giving up the confiscated laud, or Of repealing the Loan Allocation .Act. In speaking on those subjects, he trusted he should not say anything that would irritate hop, members from Auckland; though he thought that some of the observations, that: fell from, them with regard to the southern, portion of the colony were uncalled /for,'and spoken in exceeding bad taste. A /very striking: exception to the tone of the speeches of two orthree gentlemen from that : part.o.f .thecplpnywas thespeechof the hon. imember fori Auckland City West, the Superintendent of the;province. He was glad to find/that the menacing attitude assumed by certain hon, members from Auckland was not adopted by that honourable gentleman. '■The hon.member for Franklyn made a statement which he could not allow to pass un • contradicted.. It was perfectly true that he Was one/of those alluded to by the hon. member for Auckland City West as new members; but. he might be allowed to say that, although/a new member, he had a tolerably intimateknowledge of the political History of this colony, and he was perfectly acquainted with, and had a perfect memory of, tlie leading events of the past eight or nine years. The, hon. member forFranklyn stated distinctly'that the war was thrust ■upon.'Auckland, and that it had ruined the;. prpyince; He demurred to that 'statement altogether. When the war broke out, and when the seat of war was. in Taranaki, it was no doubt distasteful to honourable gentlemen from the North; but. when it became evident that the seat of war was to; be removed from Taranaki to Auckland, a very wonderful change came : prer their .Opinions. There was no question about it,it was a matter of history, that/public■feelingVin Auckland was highly excitedin.'favour/.of the seat of war being rempTed into, the province. The gentlemen aritimately.connected with that province, who pulled the strings of that province, were very glad/that.theiwar'cameup. They saw their chance, and some of them availed themselves o£ it. That honourable gentleman appealed tothe sympathy: of the Sou(h, on the ground that a large number of the inhabitants of Aucklaud;.had; suffered cruelly through the that they;, had built houses, enlarged warehouses, and extended their operations, and had lostmoney-by it. He was surprised that : gentleman appealed to the jjyrnpatny of -the House on such grounds, The'plain. fact of the case was, that those gentlemen...speculated on the war. They made plenty of money for a certain time—it was.rollingabout—but they rather overstayedtbeir time and they lost it again, and now theHouseiVaa asked to give up a debt which jwas'/ratifled by Act of Parliament, winch Act of Parliament was considered in committee and out of committee, and was icarried by a large 'majority of the House. ■They'wereaikedtogiYeupthe claim of the colony against the prprini e of Auckland for ,-'.such reasons;as those advanced. The hon, ■''gentleman made'.a mistake if he appealed to his sympathy ;'he= appealed to the wrong Quarter.;. Hewouldraost resolutely steel his heartandbuttoh uphia pocket against such ; aivappeal; ~;The;money under the Allocated Xoaa was spent upon the province, and the ; account passedjand no reason had been adduced by the Auckland members to justify : /that House.;in'giving up the claim. The '> Government/endorsed the proposition for the . .repeal of that Act, simply for the reason that they could not get the money; but, unfor'tunately; they had told the House on other occasions,'that they had very unlimited faith ;'ih;the future prospects of that portion of the •■ /Northern -Island, ; aud so they must allow Southern' members ; ;to participate in that \ /faith,, and.;vtoQcome to the conclusion that. it was better to hold over the debt thari: wipe-it 'put; The hon. the Postmaster- . .General gave;a personal illustration of that 'question, >hich,;/ihowever much it might Improve their ideas of his extreme liberality, \ Certainly, did hot.speak much for his business capacity! The hon. : member said that if he had a,tenant, and .that tenant should be in arrear, with hisjrent, he would forgive him, ,; . and allow him to fl'art again. That was not .; the but it might be so with the honpurablegehtleman. He did not think .itwas a wise practice. With regard to the confiscated; lands,; he objected to giving up ; that aßset, ; oh/the same ground. He did not 1 object. ; tb. giving 1 up.ii portion of the land in •■■ the/proviheiof Auckland,as he believed that ; was/not'a : very available asset. He remeui- ;■'. bared aselecfr/ committee which sat /ast ses- ; Bion on. the : subject of the confiscated land. !; Heiiad a rather;-strong idea, though he had 1 notreffeshed hii/mempry, that the confiscated ■ lanila in the province of Taranaki were de-

scribed as being a very vahmblo asset, if properly managed. He had heard that a large sum had once been offered for them, Mr Stafford : I havo never heard of it, Mr Hkevhs : Instead of giving tliem away, ho would keep them over until a better day, when some money might be made of them, There was an item on the estimates which he would like to say a few words about. That was" Defence." Ho objected altogether to keeping up even the nucleus of a standing army. That was the lust remnant of a scheme which must be deemed utterly and completely romantic ; lie alluded to the selfreliant poliey ; for it was romantic so far as it included the notion of keeping up a standing nrmy out of the revenue of tho colony, lie believe! that (ho day was not far distant when the defence of tlie North Island must be put into the bunds of the settlers of the North Island, That was tho only reasonable plan of self-reliance—to embody a certain proportion of the militia, nnd make them do their duty like men. It whs perfectly reasonable that the defence of the North Island should rest in the hands of the settlers of that island. More than that, the (system of settlement prevailing must be given up. The colony will never he able to permit that Island to be settled at haphazard, and remote outlying settlements, however distasteful it might sound, would have to be withdrawn. A mode of settlement should be established that would not allow the enlargement of our borders without security that they can he held. He would like to say a word or two upon the consolidation of loans. The term appeared to him the only j weak point in that scheme. He did not see, moreover, how it could be made entirely a voluntary operation. He thought that the Government would be doing a wise thing if _ they took the measure in hand a little more strongly. Instead of allowing an indefinite period —for he considered three years an indefinite period for such a financial transaction—the time that ought to elapse over which exchanges could be made, should be fixed at the limit of six months. What with telegraphs and steam communication, six montlw was a longtime,and those interested in financial operations which told to their advantage must be very much out of the world If they did not hear of them within that time. He thought the operation would be successful, and a great boon to the colony; but it might be done much more advantageously in the shorter time. Those who would not exchange their bonds within that time were only persons who would hung on for the sake of making something more out of it than they would at first. If a reasonable limit were fixed, it would be a gain to the colony. The loans could be consolidated on a firm basis in one-sixth part of the time proposed. Tliere were many objections to having a transaction of that importance floating over a period of three years. He understood that the Government had withdrawn the proposition to stretcli the limits of the Three Million Loan Act. He believed the Government had been badly advised by the Crown agents, who he did not think were qualified to give the best advice on such a matter. Such a proposition would have negatived all the good that was propounded by the very able scheme of consolidation. He would not follow the example if those members who thought it the correct thing to speak against the Government and then voteforthem. Hecouldsee nothing in the proposition that would benefit the colony. It appeared to proeeed from want of courage on the part of the Government to face the difficulty of the country. In fact, it was simply a compromise. On that ground, though feeling the difficulty of the Government, and siucerely sympathising with them, he felt called upon to record bis vote against them.