PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume 13, Issue 687, 31 May 1869, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

FRIDAY, MAT 21, 1359. [Proceedings of this day continued from our last. - ] EXECUTIVE ACT REPEAL. Mr Buchanan moved— For leave to introduce a Bill to repeal the Executive Act, Session 1, No. 1, and Executive Act Amendment Act, Session 4, No. 4. —This motion was now almost an annual one, and he wished on this occasion to take the discussion on the first reading, as he was quite prepared for an adverse vote. In the New Provinces Act he could find nothing to necessitate the form of Government adopted by all those Provinces constituted un ler it—nothing to warrant them in aping the administrative forms in use in old countries. The plan apparently contemplated was that of a Board, the Chairman of which would carry out his executive functions with the advice and content of the members ; this was what our Government would ultimately come to, and he did not see why the plan had not been adopted sooner. A glance at the revenue sheet would prove the necessity of something in this direction being done at once, and equally proved the futility of waiting, as ve had done these two years, for the General Assembly to legislate in the matter. Their evident intention was to let the Provinces stand or fall, as best they could, by themselves —and in their own embarrassed condition it was as much as they could do to look after their own affairs. This time he had a fresh argument to offer for the repeal of this Act. In the estimates for the ensuing year he observed that no provision had been made for Treasurer. Now, the first Executive Act appointed a Treasurer, as well as the Executive, and they could not do away with that officer without violating the law. While the Act remained it should be obeyed ; but if they once repealed it they had their path cleared for reduction, as rigid and ' trenchant as they pleased. It was undesirable that there should be in Council a band of four gentlemen who had the power of dictating to the rest, whatever it might have been in those halcyon days when means-were abundant. The powers of such a quartette were a source of danger. He did not refer specially to the members now holding that position ; but any four gentlemen out of the eighteen composing the Council, with the influence possessed by those members, would be a virtual majority. That body performed no functions which rendered them at all a necessity. It was only on rare occasions that the Executive Council met, and what business they transacted was unknown to the Council; and it was only in matters involving questions which would have to be settled by the Council, that the Superintendent seemed to have recourse to them at all. What, then, was: the need of an Executive 1 We had if been told that there was never any record of their conferences. If they had been consulted on any questions of moment would this have been the case 1 for even in the ordinary proceedings of a public meeting, minutes were taken. The motion he had now brought forward was simply tor leave to introduce the bill; if leave was refused he would understand that the Council considered the Executive necessary: if it were gi anted, members had only committed themselves to the extent of giving the subject further consideration. Mr A'Deane seconded the motion pro forma. Mr Rhodes did not rise with the intention of pleading his own cause, but wished, as a private member, to say a few words on the subject. As to the office being an honor, he could not see it—he thought the boot was on the other leg. He had served the Province gratuitously now for ten or twelve years; lie had been in the Executive from the first initiation of the Government, and he expected to remain in it to the last No doubt great alterations would 'speedily take place, but they would be of a much deeper nature than the dismissal of the executive. To do away with that body, not only the Executive Act but nearly every other

Act of the Council would have tok repealed. If reduced much fW it came to the whole Execute duties being performed by J man; and the control of the revenue of the Province wonl<L be much more difficult than then' nagement of a sheep-run. however, impossible for one main do it now, encumbered as he be by the Acts which had led year by year. The day \ Voil | come when the chief magistrate, \, whate\ er name he was called, wou| administer the whole affairs of 4 Province ; but when that day there would not likely be eighty members. If there were ; he did 55! envy that gentleman his position' in fact, he thought few would i found willing to accept. If were one representative for evert thousand souls in the Proving —which, with our present pulation, would make a Council 1 five—it might be possible to conctu { the business; but with a eighteen, it would be impossil without an Executive for anySSue,p e , intendent, however sweet-temper to do anything. The member ft, the Countiy had pointed out tin there was no provision in the est! mates for a Treasurer. So long a . the laws of the Province were.gj tant, the Treasurer wa«-i an office who could not be dispensed vi| It was simply impossible to dose and so long as there was an office to draw cheques and pay money \ must be called Treasurer, whether]), was paid or not. Year after yet the statement had been made, and* often refuted, that the Execute Council kept no minutes. On even important occasion when that Coui cil met, minutes had been tabu They had not been produced auj laid before the Council because | Executive did not think it was on of their functions to do so. 1 Mr A'Deane would oppose til motion. 1 Mr M'Lean said this was an 115 fortunate time to bring this questioi forward. He could not see howl; could possibly do without the assi} tance of the Executive Council. Hi had occasion to rely much on H Executive, and must acknowleik the cordial assistance they had a! ways rendered him, and the zealom manner in which they had everdij charged their duties, commanding as they always did, the confidenceoi the Council. He could not see lion the Council could possibly gain l)j the change; but, on the contrary, thought it would simply be injurious to the interests of the public. Ji our small province questions am of equal importance with tho«e 'vliici occupied the Governments of larger ones. The members for Cliveani Porangahau had often discharged the duties of Superintendent, and given months of their time to tk public service. Their giatuitous m vices would always command tin gratitude of the Province. He coulii no object to be attained by suel a motion as that before the house, and in view of the changes in pros pect, he thought they had better lei well alone. Lieut.-Col. Lambert said this was the second or thirl time that the member for the Country Districts had brought this subject before tin Council, and it had again enabled the Superintendent to elaborately butter his Executive. He had stated that they had rendered him immense assistance, and how fortunate he was in having the advantage of their valuable services—in fact, his speech was as similar as possible to the one he made last year. His Honor said he could not carry on the business without an Executive. Let hiw become the Chairman of the Council, and carry out the wishes of the majority—a majority which, under those circumstances, would be a i'#' one. As regarded the minutes, 1' believed that two yeais ago the member for Clive stated that there were none—at any rate he was so understood by the Council. He was no* glad to hear that minutes had been kept. The Executive might have assisted the Superintendent vetf much, but they had plainly said that they were not responsible to the Council, which was not a healthy feature. He could not help remark ing that the Superintendent desiff"

to stick to his old loves —he could no t carry on the business if they were parted. It was m uch the same story last year and the year before. They were told—Tt is no use to make any changes; all we do will be upset by the General Assembly. Xiast year we were told that change was inevitable —it must come within six months. "Well, a year had passed and there was no change—nor did he anticipate such a change. This was a step in the righ I direction, and lie fell assured that his Honor as Chairman would carry on his Executive duties with great ease, and to the satisfaction of the Council. The duties would be so light that be need not fear that he would not be able to perform them. Mr Tanner could not see why this subject; was resuscitated. His Honor ought to be the best judge of the assistance rendered him by the Executive, and he saw no object in the repeal of these Acts. Unless he heard some very good and convincing argument he would vote against the motion.

Mr Buchanan had no intention of implying that the gentlemen opposite were seeking office. The member for Clive had said that one man might administer the affairs of the Province. Now he could not go so far, He did not believe it possible for one man to do the work. Mr Rhodes : I said the time would speedily come when it would be possible. Mr Buchanan : That member thought the number of Acts -would be an embarrassment. The Acts had nothing to do with the subject at all. The Executive, as at piesent constituted, had no functions, no legal status, and no responsibility. Every day's delay added to the embarrassment of the position, and to the length of life of the gentleman oppo-! site, which he desired to terminate.! He failed to see the necessity of their. occupying the position tliey did—| why they could not render the Superintendent their valuable assistance as private members of the Council He could not agree that the. Superintendent would lie torn to pieces by the eighteen demons around, linn if he had not a body-guard of

three to protect him. This bodyguard, he understood, were to serve the purpose of buffers, to take off the concussion caused by the attacks of the opposition ; but if the Super-! intendent were simply chairman the' three would be increased to seventeen, and their force would be expended in divisions amongst themselves, not against him at all. His duty would simply be to act as the majority dictated ; and his position would be no less dignified than at! present, when he sheltered himself behind the triad who sat at his side. He admitted lie had waited with some anxiety for the speech of the member for Porangahau ; but with the tact for which he was s-o distinguished, that gentleman had this time discreetly held his tongue. He would not, however, let him off on that account, but would claim his vote. And he claimed his vote on the ground of a speech he made in the General Assembly last session, from which he would read an extract :

In the Hawke's Bay Provincial Council, which 1m w irked out provincialism as successfully a r > any of the new Provinces, a discussion took place in a late session as to whether the people of the Province were satisfied with the form of government then existing, and the universal opinion was that the Province could not have progressed Ij titer under any other form of government. Of course it was allowed there had been mistakes here and there, although not very serious ones ; but the opinion was that the advance which the Province had made was as great as could reasonably have been expected. Sir, if it had not been for the state of uncertainty in which the country is, as to the changes that are likely to be effected, there would at the present moment be an endeavour, made in that Province to carry out a much simpler: form of government. The question was only post poned in consequence of doubts a? to the action on this House ; but in the next session they intend to elect from amonf *!.%iir number one who shall be at once Cl>*\« man and Superintendent, an administrate officer aud servant of the Council, administering what the Council has decided upon. You enn have nothing more simple than that, and in new Provinces, or any other divisions of (he country which may be created within the next few years, it seems to me that no system can be car- : *ie4 out to greater advantage.

1 —After this he could fairly claim ■ that gentleman's vote. It was a i proverb that the Tories always stole the clothes of the "Whigs while they bathed, and this case reminded him of it. The member for Clive had evidently adopted his (Mr BV.) resolutions, which he had brought forward in an earlier session, and he trusted that in asking for his vote he would not call in vain. The Government were slow to initiate changes of this kind—loth to do distasteful duties—but it was no use to stand longer shivering on the brink ; they had better at once make cheir plunge. They would ere longrecognise the fact that they were left out in the cold, and would have to do their best to find shelter. We had seen on every case where any odium was involved how anxious the Government were to cast their legit imate duties on other shoulders the Immigration Board for instance, and he could not approve of it. The disagreeable duties should no more be shirked than the pleasant ones. He well knew thac tho-e who per- ; formed public duties had an unthankful task, and the members of; the Government had his sympathy on this account. As to the questions ; of grave importance to which his 1 Honor had referred, he did not know . what grave questions there had been < which might not have been defended r till the meeting of the Council, or if] not the Council might have been ; summoned together. There were j hundreds of parish vestries in Eng -. land with larger revenues at their i disposal than this Council had, and \ to keep up our present form of Go- ( vernment was merely to parody re- \ presentative institutions. c The motion was then affirmed on I a division, and the Bill was intro- c duced and read a first time. 1

COMMITTEE. After going into Committee on the Standing Orders under the Compulsory Land Taking Act and other business, the Council adjourned till next sit ting-da j. MONDAY, MAT 24, 1869. The Council met at 3 p.m. Present, —All the members except Colonel. Whitmore. The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed. HAWKE'S BAY LAND REGULATIONS. Mr Dolbel mo\ ed—■ That a select committee be appointed to take jinto consideration the Hawke's Bay Waste Lands | Regulations of ISG3, and to bring up a report to this Council of the requisite alteration in the said Ac 1 ;. The committee to consist of Messrs. Locke, Ormond, Buchanan, A'Deane, Tanner, Parsons, and the mover. —Mi Carlyox would oppose the motion : not that lie disapproved of its principles, but because the mover [had no idea in his head of the time and labour it would involve. This wa« a question which had puzzled oveiy Council in jSew Zealand, and now, at the end of the session, there was. no chance of attaining any practical result. The motion was then negatived on a division. SCHOOL INSPECTION. Mr Ferard asked the Government — Whether any decrease has been made in the salary of the Inspector of Schools, in consequence of his not having inspected the schools during the past year. —He observed that the Report of the inspector of Schools was simply a compilation from the school returns. He thought this was not right, as the sum of £SO was made a first charge on the education rate as a salary for the Inspector, whose duty it was to visit and inspect the various schools in the Province. Mr M'Lean said that no sum had yet been paid the Inspector; and he did not consider that £SO was,! considering that gentleman's duties, a laige salary. The duty of inspecting the various schools would be carefully performed very shortly. NUHAKA BLOCK. Mr Locke asked his Honor the Superintendent — Whether any steps have been taken towards recovering from the Auckland Government their share of the money paid for the Nuhaka Block, and if so, the result. —Two sessions ago correspondence was laid on ih i table on this subject, and he wished to know if anything further had been done.

j Mr M'Lean said that no fresh , steps had been taken in this ca?e. In the first instance, when the General Government paid over to Auckland its share of the consolidated revenue, the amount due to Hawke's Bay was to be made a first charge on it. This amount was not deducted by the Provincial Treasurer, the reason assigned being that the Council had made no appropriation lof the .sum—although it had been perfectly understood that it was to be paid. In the present circumstances of the Province of Auckland himself and his colleague had thought they could not put it down as an asset until there was some guarantee that it would be paid.

THE MAHIA BLOCK. Mr Locke moved— Whether any definite arrangement has been made respecting the transfer of the Mahia block to the General Government. —ln 1867 it was stated that this block was to be transferred to the General Government, for the sum of £7,500. A bill to legalize the transaction was also spoken of, but he did hot know whether any definite arrangement had been made. Mr M'Lean said that no definite arrangement had been made. It had been proposed that the Mahia block should be transferred to the General Government for the sum named. The intention was to settle certain natives who had taken the oath of allegiance on this land, thus removing them from a dangerous position, and preventing a junction with the rebels. Te Warn was quite willing to assent to the arrangement, and occupy the land, and the General Government appeared anxious-- to conclude the arrangement. Subsequent ly, they offered the contis cated land between Petane and Waikari instead of cash—an offer which he did not see his way to accept. Trie arrangement in consequence fell through—an event which was most unfortunate, as it had probably cost the country £50,000 or £OO,OOO. MESSRS. WATT BROTHERS' WHARF. Mr Ferahd asked the Government—

Whether legal proceedings have not been taken . during the past, year against Messrs Watt Brothers, for trespass on the harbor by the erection of a wharf thereupon ; whether a compromise lias not been effected, and upon what terms ; whether any sum of money lias been paid to Messrs Watt in accordance with that compromise, and out of what funds; whether, before that compromise was effected, the opinion of Mr Balfour or otlies competent engineer as to the effect of the continued existence of Watt's wharf upon the harbor generally was obtained, and what it was, and why steps were not taken earlier to prevent the erection of that wharf. He saw by the Ttepoi t of the Harbor Master that alterations for the worse weie taking place in the harbor. The Province had paid ior an opinion of Mr Balfour, who had suggested a general plan for Harbor Improvements, and he thought it questionable whether Watt's whan was in accordance with the original plan. Mr M'Lean said that at the time this wharf was commenced the question of rights to water frontages was unsettled, a bill affecting the subject being in the General Assembly. This bill, though introduced by the Government, and drawn by the Attorney General, did not pass. The Provincial Solicitor was then instructed to enter, if possible, into an amicable arrangement' on the subject, but the matter was delayed un til Mr Watt was leaving the Province, when a writ was served upon him. The result was that an arrangement was made, and the wharf, the erection of which cost the Messrs Watt £4-50, was bought by the Government for .£360. The wharf was formally handed over to the Provincial Engineer on the 22nd March of this year. His colleague the member for the town would be able to explain whether the wharf was in accordance with Mr Balfour's scheme of harbor improvements. These were the principal circumstances of the case, and he might add that the wharf was paid for out of the portion of the loan appropriated for harbor purposes. Mr Kennedy did no + think the wharf could interfere with Mr Balfour's plan, as it wai not a solid structure, and the current had freepas[sage underneath. The real cause of

the shoaling of the harbor, he believed, was the ruinous old breastwork, through which tire water poured every high tide, carrying the sand and silt from Gough Island; into the harbor. I

■ APPROPRIATION OF THE LOAN. Mr Buchanan moved—1. That funds derived from the sale of land, purchased with borrowed money, ought to be devoted exclusively to the improvement of roads and the construction of necessary public works. 2. That any interference by the Government with the purposes to which the balance £28,000 of the provincial loan has been appropriated, except by legislation of the Council, and repeal of the "Loan Appropriation Act, 1868," raid of the resolution on which it is based, is undesirable, as well as illegal. 3. That all sums of money recovered on account of immigration be passed to a special funds and held uuapplicable to expenditure for general purposes. —He would ask leave to postpone the consideration of ther:e resolutions to the following day. Mr Ormond would point out that to postpone the consideration of these resolutions would be to hold in abeyance the whole financial operations of the Government, as, if they were affirmed by the Council, all their plans for the future would have to be modified. The question was whether all this business should be deferred for a whole day; for his part he preferred going on with the discussion at once, and letting the Government take the sense of the Council on the subject. Mr Buchanan said it was the very gravity of the question that led him to seek the postponement. The resolutions had only been printed today ; and he wished them to have time to penetrate into the minds of members.

Mr Tanner was fully aware of the importance of tlie subject; but thought gentlemen around were fully aware of the meaning ot the resolutions. Mr A'Deanh must object to sa crificing a day which had thus been set apart for vork. He thought the gentlemen around wore sufficiently quick of apprehension to enter into the subject, and hoped the postponement would not be pressed. Mr M'Lean would have to go on himself with this matter on the part of the Government in the temporary absence of the gentleman who usually took charge of the financial business. He thought' members had ample time to make themselves acq 1 tainted with the subject. j

Mr Buchanan said that when he put the notice on the paper he had no conception that Monday would be made a sitting day. He had no idea that they would come on before Tuesday, and must press for a postponement. The motion for postponement was negatived on a division.