A SYMPOSIUM AT MAKOTUKU.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume XXX, Issue 9896, 24 January 1895, Page 4

A SYMPOSIUM AT MAKOTUKU.

\\ (BY OUR BUSH CORRESPONDENT.) f You will be sorry to hear that I had no atne to visit the "prohibition parson" during my stay at Makotaku, bat I baa on evening with a few jovial spirits at "- tKe hotel, and the subject turned upon drink in general and prohibition in par. tlctiUr. We were five in number, two Being abstinence meu, of whom one IB a ' prohtbitioner, and three gentle tipplers. • I mean by tbe latter term men who take their half pint now aud then for dinner or • supper, bat who do not ges drank even on i special' occasions. The landlady, as I v have already told you, is an excellent controller-general, and provided us with ' her qaiet upstairs room, where we sat it > oat and discussed freely and in the most v generous spirit Mr Isitt and Prohibition From beginning to end. The resident parson was brought under notice, bub unfortunately only two of as had read a 1 ■ book he has lately published on tbe subject of Prohibition, I had eeen tbe book tor sale in the window ot a local store, and being anxious to learn what a " country parson " had to say on such a Bubjeot I bought) a copy and read ib the last, thing at night and the first thing is the morning, in lieu of tbe nsual morning and evening papers one is able to obtain 'in the towns. The book, it seems to mo, ■ does credit .to tho spltlo of inquiry of a country parson, and I am sorry' that the ■ opportunity did not come of listening to farther explanations In tbe way of enlightenment on oome points about which I .was and am nosy in donbt. Still my ceading broughb about a discussion, and I '■hall Rive yon in brief in the form of a "Symposium" what onr party had to say. I ought to mention that my iriends were of different nationalities, one being from Norway, one from Denmark, one from Wales, and one from England. My nationality need not be named, because it has already : been hinted at in a former letter. To me it was Interesting to find in a ■ remote place like Makotnku the sturdy , nationalities of North-west Europe so . well represented and so capable of meet " fog in a common brotherhood to discuss - 'the beat " ways and means " for the Improvement and the uplifting of the ,' BMial life of the" people. We were all '*' unanimous In the opinion that times were . bad and that the eutlook was anything ■' bad bright, and " you own " opened fire ~ : «a follows :— ' Your Own: "How comes 14 to pass in a country like New Zealand, where each year sees an increase in wool, in tneat, iv corn and wine, and, in faco. in ' everything tending to increase the bettermenb of the people and' the wealth of the communities, that times grow worse, that employment is scarce, and • that the . working classes are getting less prosperous? All oar productions come direct from the soil, and when you consider that ' the articles produced are so largely in excess of the actual wants of the people, ' it seems strange that onr colony should be going backward, Now, pray, what is j the cause t Is it because of drink, of thtlftleasness, of the middlemen in our - trade transactions, or does it arise from Over-borrowing ? No one who has passed through the township extendiog from , . Danevirke to Takapau bnt must have noticed how much possible labor is going -. to waste. Men, almost by the dozen, are to be counted who are making from place to place seeking for work and finding none. No one can say such meu don't want to work, and I am anxions to know why they cannot be employed doing something rather than being permitted to ' drift and eventually losing their selfrespect, which is the highest and best possession of mankind as a social being, Scandia: "Many poor fellows have called at my place, and £ would gladly have helped them, but my means won't allow it. Some of tbe men won't woik if ' yon offer them a billet, nnless you give them wageß which are really more than they earn. They ask seven shillings a day, and won't work for less. Bat this does not deal with the points you have raised. For example, I grow more grass seed and send more posts to market than I used to do, and yet the money I earn is not so mneh as formerly, I borrowed money to make my farm more productive, bnt the produce, thangh much more than it was a few .years ago, does not bring me in the same Income, so that although I have made by my labor two blades of grass grow where one formerly grew, I am, to all intends and purposes, a poorer man. This Is to me a puzzle, but It is none the less a fact; and in some way supports you in your inquiry, or rather ib gives food for thought as to why things are worse now although we grow more than we formerly did." England: "That is business, my dear fellow. Do you not see thai cbings are

cheaper than they wore, a'aii therefore so much better for the.buy ere ? The buyers «Bell to the- people, so that althongh you |C get les|ior yonr products than you did a Mftsw/yeara ago the consumers get these so much cheaper, and as they ■Kan live longer on the same amonnt of wage as they formerly got, It follows that they can produce mote manufactured things which can be sold at a lees price, and so the producer bnys cheaper from the conßnmer what he requires, and this compensates the producer for his loss in selling cheaper than formerly. There is a law In political economy and yon cannot alter it, try how yon please. Let the Minister of Labor or anybody elee do what he likes to alter this Btate of affairs he cannot do bo, and it is useless for him to make the attempt." Denmark : " But yon do not, nor did Scandinavia, touch the point which our host touched upon in opening the discussion. The point is: Why are things 80 bad? The labor market, the social condition of the people, and even the moral standard? They are all below a healthy condition. There is greater production certainly, and friend England urges that consumers are bnying wheat and wool, and meat, much cheaper now than formerly, but surely these things in the aggregate ought to improve the condition of the people? It is nrged that affairs in New Zealand are in a bad way; that the outlook is gloomy, that ' men are unable to find employment, and . that sheep-iarmera are oarrying oa their affairs without profit, and in many instances at an actual loss." Wales : " 1 do not believe that things are as bad as you urge. Men can always find employment if they will work. ' There is in the country a band of loafers, • nnd you may provide them with homes »ud land, and give them all the enconrageroent in your power— still they will be thankless ; they will be thoughtless, and their affairs will go to the wall, as the saying is. Is there a man In the colony that has not had an opportunity at some time or other of making a few pounds over and above bis ordinary cosb of maintenance, but how many are there who provide for or even anticipate 'a rainy day ? ' And what do they do with their excess of earnings over aetnal maintenance ? For after all that is the question which will have to be decided. why, surely the majority spend it, spend their excels of earnings over maintenance, mark you, not in clothing the body or improving the mind, buo in - gratifying the animal man. Talk as yon will, the lOßters go in for what »hey can get to gratify the feelings, the tastes, the stomach, bat how much do they care for the welfare of their country, ot its grow'wp improvement or of its fnture greatness ? They are animals, gentlemen, unimals, I affirm, and nothing more, and centnries must pass by before their souls will have developed sufficiently to bo possessed by . citizens worthy of living in a colony like . onrg. I aav bhey onght no* to bavß the .' right of citizenship conferred upon than:.'' Yonr Own: "There is mnch food for . thought in what has been said on this subject, and friend Wales has touched ona aide of the qnestlon in a significant manner, but this does not get rid of the points raised by Scandinavia and Denmark. As to production, I willingly conoed" chat fcnriitlessaesa is at the bottom ot b good deal of our present trouble. When times are good there should be the exercise of foresight, for that times cannot always be good is a moral certainty, and it is our duty to provide for a rainy dr.y, as the saying goes, bnt do you think too - State has done its duty in tbis matter of incnlcating habits of thrift ? I think not. In the first place, the State, and in f ct every town, harbor board, and roid board, has gone in for borrowing, which ' is simply living beyond one's means. Now this habit of over-living has been, and Is b»infT, inca'cited among the peop!a as one of the thlnps to be fostered. Bat If such a thing is goad for a community, why not for the individual ? Live beyond yonr means ! Is tbU the motto which ought to be inculcated among the people ? Even the one 'live up to yom means' can only ba supported on the plea that means will always bra available at long ] aa yon live, but as this is an uncertainty in the case of the va3t majority of colonist?, it were wiser to anticipate the 'rainy day,' and in time of propperity provide for it. I fear the qneation ruined by Soandinavla as to why he gets less aai produces more is one which needs more time for discussion than we have available to-night, and I would Miggest that we limit onr conversation to mis oDe point ot over-living or thrif tleeaneai, Hut of course the suggestion U thrown out to as to bring onr discussion withiu reason able limUs, os one cannon bo expeoted to discuss the life of a nation in the conrea . oLthrre short! honrs,"

I say again that every m i '• Bkt'bas D4rt opportunities <>• m ain i nn

for consideration from his fellow men! Unhesitatingly I say certainly not." ; England: "Bnt would you take away the only pleasure men of Ibis class enjoy? Many of them have no possible pleasure in anything beyond getting drunk or creating a row. They live for months in some out-of-the-way place and then they want a ohance, relaxation, gratification if you will, and why shonld a man not bs allowed to spend his own earnings In his own way ; Is he not a free man, and does not the State recognise this in giving him electoral rights 1 "

Denmark : " Unfortunately ib does, but It is open to discussion whether it is always good for men to ba free. We all say if a man breaks the law that ho must lose his freedom, sod surely if a man is incapable of taking care of his earnings be is inoapable of taking care of himself. The two go together, and those who are acquainted with tho law of property know that the State has always held property in tbe highest respect, in fact much higher it seems to me than the individual himself."

Scandinavia : "If my children do nob take care of the things I entrust them with they are taken from them, The State provides us with protection and permits us to possess things and call them onr own. If we do not take care of them — I mean that kind of care which will be of some present and f nturs benefit) to vs — Burely the State has the right to come In and bake charge even for onr own good 1 " England : " Bat you forget that an Enalhhmiin'M honse is bis castle, and peop'e in tho colonies follow tbe old Btoek, and claim that they know how to take cara of what they have without the prying help of State officials." Denmark: "The State has the right to do what it deems best for the benefit of the people, no matter from what standpoint that benefit may be viewed. A Government that confers rights upon a people can take back those rights should it be fonnd needful to the common good to do so."

Yonr Own ; " If yon concede that there are many man who spend their excess of eutniDgs In the simple gratification of the animal part of man, do yon nob think there mast be a canse beyond what has been suggested in this discussion ? Wales Implies there are some men so depraved that they do not, and would not, Improve nnder better social condition?. Bab 1b human nature so viclona that it ia hopeless? I think not I What has Governitaent done In tbene hundreds of years for the moral and social elevation of mankind ? There has been meted onb tho solace of religion to the poor, the privilege of caste and power to the rich, bat what. has bean done to enrich their minds, to brine them into touch with each other ? Each man's home Ss his castle, bnt theie is the want of a castle in common in every town and township, where men may meet, converse, discuss, where they may study, improve, and refresh, and where the generalised and the specialised form of the social and individual life may meet on common ground for the common good. At present, and for centuries past, the only common meetin); bonne is the public house nf England, translated into hotels in New. Zealand, . and to frequent these places it is necessary ; for the tastes of frequenters to be in agreement with the articles sold in each place.«. Men have been in a measure forced to partake of what was the recognised end of the public house, viz., the sale of intoxicating beverages, and habits have thereby grown up which would not have grown under proper soslal arrange" rnents, . or rather under arrangements which modern usage and government show to be necessary. I urge that the towns' and town boards should go in to provide national places— meefing-bonsea, if you will — for the new social conditions now existing, and if these were properly carried ont I do not thiok that what Wales says now exists would have the slightest ohance of existing for any lengthened period." (To be continued.)