MINISTERS AT NEW PLYMOUTH.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume XXI, Issue 5007, 13 February 1878, Page 2

MINISTERS AT NEW PLYMOUTH.

[By Telegraph.]

(from our own correspondent.) NEW PLYMOUTH, February 9. The Oddfellows' Hall was crammed last night in every part, there being fully 700 people inside, and a large number outside who were unable to obtain admittance. A large, number of ladies occupied the gallery And platform. Captain Wilson occupied the chair and introduced the Premier, who received loud and prolonged applause during the delivery of his address. His remarks elicited from time to time very enthusiastic applause. At the conclusion, Mr Sheehau was called on by the meeting, and received during his speech demonstrative applause. Councillor Scott moved a vote of thanks to Sir George Grey and Mr Sheehan for their kindness in visiting Taranaki and conveying so much information of the policy and objects of the Government, vrhiah. was carried by acclamation ' : . The following are the speeches of the Premier and Native Minister ; —

Sir George Grey said that in speaking to the people of Taranakihe stood upon firm ground. The settlement had been assailed by almost every species of danger — the floods of war had been pouring over^their district ; the population had been shut up within a narrow compass, almost: every form of misfortune which could fall on a settlement had been felt there,. yet the people had stood firm, and he thought that persons who had so firmly resisted every danger in their determination to make the place their home were persons he might confidentially address upon every subject concerning their own future welfare and that of their descendants. He understood that they wished to be addressed on certain subjects of local interest. The first of these was the Mountain road. That was a road leading to the back of Mount Egmont towards Wanganui and Wellington. Those present who were old would remember that for the past 30 years they had all been dreaming of the completion of that road. He could recollect when, with the greatest interest and lively admiration, he looked upon any man who had the boldness to travel that wood. They knew tha£j^pad through that country would leadTto a most fertile district, very sparsely inhabited by a native population. The only wonder had been that when money for so long a time had been so redundant in the colony that the making of such a road had been, so negle_Qte.d, The. toad.

Would not only be of service to tho people of Taranaki, but he believed to the whole of the North Island of New Zealand. i> They would therefore well imagine that •* no delay would take place in the construcof the road. In fact, arrangements had that day been made by which their county council, who were the proper persons to be charged with a duty of that kind, would immediately undertake it, and that before winter set in one of the most important sections of the New Plymouth side of the road would bo completed, and he still further hoped that Mr Sheehan, in proceeding overland to the publicside, would make arrangements by which a portion of the road on that side would be undertaken. The next point that his attention had been drawn to was that a railway should follow the road. Many people thought that it would be better to construct the railway at once. There were, however, several difficulties in the way of that proceeding, and the conclusion at last arrived at was that it was more desirable that the road should be made first 5 that the railway would follow, was, he might say^ a matter of course — it was simply a question of time. It wholly rested with them, under the present state of things, to determine when it should be done, because immediately the popular will expressed itself in that direction Government would only be too glad to carry it out, and the Government would make effort to direct the popular will in that course, believing that there was a necessity for the future welfare of New Zealand to bring about the opening of the Mokau river. His own belief was that a matter of that kind could only be brought about satisfactorily with the hearty concurrence of both races. The moment the native population themselves felt that an advantage would accrue to them from the opening of any particular district— that, he thought, was the proper time to obtain a. work of the kind. He thought it was extremely desirable to have the native population to believe that intercourse with the Europeans was not only a necessity which must be brought about, but also to convince them it was a necessity which would be to their welfare as well as to the of the European race, and therefore his earnest desire was that no effort would be made in reference to the Mokau river until the Government were satisfied that the native feeling was tending in that direction. In regard to the Auckland and Taranaki railway, allusion had been made to the question of connecting Taranaki with Auckland. That was a matter upon which his heart had been set for a great toany years. He thought that as long ago as the year 1848 or 1849 he took the troube to travel all the way from Taupo 1 himself with the express design of trying to find a suitable course for the railroad, and he mentioned his belief that a good line could be discovered to the old chief of Taupo, who said to him (Grey) that he thought it very unlikely, but now he (Grey) was told that a line of communication had been found. He believed from the turn events were taking, and from the change which was undoubtedly coming over the native mind in reference to the European population, that a desire for intercourse with them was springing up in the minds of those natives who had so long isolated themselves from the Europeans. Nothing could be more satisfactory than their late interview, with them. He himself was extremely surprised that such a state of good feeling could exist. Those sentiments of friendship and amity which - existed between European and native in former days seemed to be restored, and he only hoped that in a few months their assent would be given to the necessary roads being made through the country, • provided always that no undue interference was attempted with the land which they now held. They must remember that the natives who were engaged in the war which desolated the country suffered very heavily indeed. They had lost numbers of their best men, best in the of character, and their loss to the jtfaori people was a truly severe one, .because their successors in power were ■men of an inferior kind, men in many cases of bad passions. These enormous districts of fertile land had been taken from them— land, which, if they had owned it at the present day, would have fetched a large sum of money. Hence a "feeling of soreness existed in the native t mind, and the fear that there would be interference with the residue they .possessed, but he thought that if . once they could be convinced they were safe from any effort of that kind, then all > opposition to roads traversing their • country would pass away. If such was ; the case— and the line to Auckland was . practicable, as there was every reason to hope was the case— then they had reason , to hope that soon a railway would connect ' them with Auckland. Sir George then spoke respecting the confiscated lands. He said — The Native Minister proceeds . overland from this place for the purpose of making an exhaustive enquiry into the question of confiscated land. I think it would be unwise of me to speak to you on that subject, of which I have not very accurate information. Sir George Grey then proceeded to speak on more general affairs. With respect to a liberal franchise, ,he said he was aware that many held opposite views to himself on the subject, and he would put it to them in the following way, to make them understand exactly what his views were. He had just been reading a controversy between Messrs Lowe and Glodstone on the subject. Mr Gladstone now held exactly his (Sir G. Grey's) views on the subject. Two or three years ago he had differed from them, but now he held the same views. Mr Lowe held opposite views. But Mr Gladstone holding the same opinions as himself did not verify them. Mr Lowe objected to those views from reasons he did not understand at all. Mr Gladstone favored universal suffrage on four grounds — first, because it was the 2jight of every man to take some part in H±e affairs of his country ; second, because every inhabitant of Great Britain contributed to the revenue ; third, because every inhabitant, or male inhabitant, con- . tributed to the wealth of his country by his labor ; fourth, for the rather curious reason that the greater part of the popula- , tion was poor, and that the poor people always took the advice on such subjects of persons on whom they could rely, and, therefore, they were likely to get well advised as to their votes. To that Mr , Lowe answered that he did not see that every man had a right to take part in the affairs of his country, because the greater . part of the population of Great Britain were quite unqualified to do so. He did • , not see, further, that contributing to the : revenue gave every man a right to vote, because, he said, every drunkard who drank a glass of beer would, on that ground, be entitled to a vote. In reply to the third reason, that every man contributed by his labor, he said that every • cart-horse did the same ; therefore, if a man had a vote, so should a cart-horse. To the fourth reason, he said that a poor population would not be influenced by good people, but would be more influenced by bad people. That was a summary of the opinions of those two great statesmen. But the main argument with regard to themselves was totally different to any one of those arguments. "What they had to deal with in Great Britain was the fact that they had a population of many millions, which they had let grow up in vice and poverty. But if, in a country like this, they trained up every person to know his political duty — if they trained up every youth — so they would train persons to respect their own judgment, and to respect themselves in the proper way ; and if they continued to do that from the first in a new country, they would raise up a/people infinitely superior to the mass <&the population existing in any country in Europe. He • had said that every man being trained to take part in the affairs of the country would create in him habits of self-respect ; but he would say it would do more than that — it would create habits of morality, habits of a virtuous kind. A

man would prize his own home, because!, feeling that he was capable of rising in the country, ho would be ashamed to do anything that would damage him in the eyes of his fellow-citizens. By this means they would cease to raise up in the bosom of a country a criminal population. What the Government really proposed was that every adult male of twenty-one years of age, living for a certain period of time in an electoral district, should be entitled to a vote. He would say it was an admirable institution which ensured that privilege to every man. In asking the people of New Zealand to help him to carry out a policy of that kind he was asking them to do a thing which would benefit themselves, and in no respect benefit himself or his colleagues. It would be very pleasant for many persons to feel that they were the born rulers in the colony— that there were two nations in the country, one who were born to be rulers and the other born to be governed. He would be in the ruler portion himself, but he confessed his aspirations went in a wholly different direction. He would sooner be a unit in a nation where a great man had the power to become a ruler, and he would rather become a ruler by the convictions of those who were ruled than he would be born with the right to rule them, whether they chose to be ruled or not. He thought, therefore, in asking the people to endeavor to found such a great nation ; to raise up a nation of freedom, well instructed in political matters, determining whether at the caprice of a few they should be compelled to give up a large portion of their labor, or whether it should be done only of their will — in asking them to lay the foundation of a nation of that kind, of a foundation which in the history of the world had never been laid under most favorable auspices, they would ensure the gratitude of ages that would follow them. They must know that large slims of money had been borrowed for public works, and they must be aware that there were fortunate individuals who knew exactly where railways were to run and public works be constructed before their fellow-settlers, and acquired large blocks of land for which enormous sums had been given by money taken out of the pockets of the population. Those gentlemen, in many cases, had never thrown up one spadeful of earth on their own land, having held it only for speculative purposes, and they contributed no more to the public works than the poorest man in the country, and yet they were becoming enormously rich by the labor of others, by money taken out of the pockets of the community. Of course he thought this was entirely wrong. He would say let every man pay for what he gets. They had passed a law to the effect that in the different counties into which New Zealand was divided a man was to have a number of votes proportionate to the value of his property ; further, that out of the general revenue of New Zealand, contributed by everyone, large subsidies were to be given to the County Councils, and yet he who had paid just the same sum of money as an individual who was worth a vastly greater amount was to have taken out of his pocket just the same amount of money as was taken out of the pocket of the man of property, whilst the latter was to have a good many votes to the former's one. (To be continued.)

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