THE NO CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 13, Issue 1060, 25 June 1869, Page 2

THE NO CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

MR. ORMOND's SPEECH.

The no confidence debate (says the Evening Post) was resumed in the evening, (Tuesday, 23rd) when Mr. Ormond, in course of a very able speech, alluded to Mr. Stafford's comments on the tone and manner of Mr. Fox's speech, saying that those comments were very ■ applicable to his own remarks, his tone and manner last session having sunk into the minds of everyone. Then, when he and -Mr. M'Lean, Mr. Bell, and others who* from position and experience were entitled to speak, stood. up to do so in regard to the real state of the colony, they were accused of being alarmists ' and pariic-mongers. Subsequent events had proved who was right. The Ministry affected to treat the question now before the House as a personal one, but those on his side did not at all allow that this was so. They objected to the Government personally, but they also objected to the course of action which the Government had consistently pursued for years past. He himself, Mr. •Bell, Mr. M'Lean, Mr. Eolleston, and others, were by no means strong Provincialists—at least they were in fdvbur of a modification of these institutions — but they altogether objected to the course taken by the Jion. members on the Government benches. Thbse members asked 'wjiat would the Opposition do with the •bankrupt provinces ; but who was it that had brought those Provinces into their present position? It was the present Government, the ! inen ■ whoso duty it should have been to work those institutions to the best advantage, but who, instead of doing so, had used every effort to degrade them in the eyes of the Colony, and he admitted with some success. What had the Government ever done for the outlying districts, whose representatives had consistently supported them? Were not those representatives now finding out what he himself had found out long ago, when he left the Government ranks, that the present Government were utterly unworthy, to lead a party, that they cared not for it, or for its principles, but only cared to keep themselves in office. The presentGovernmenthad brought the colony to its present deplorable condition, and all that its supporters could say for them was, that as they got us into the mess they were the best men to get us out of it. The Government had industriously held out a threat of dissolution, and it had proved a most useful threat to their own side, but they would not dare to dissolve, for several of them would not get their seat's again. Still, if they did want to dissolve, they could not do it without the consent of the House. Dissolution was not at the option of the Government, for it could not dissolve without supplies, and supplies the House would be quite justified in refusing, and would, he hoped, refuse ; for when the House wanted dissolution last year the Government would not give it. Mr. Ormond then went on to allude to the statement made by Mr. Stafford, that Colonel McDonnell was solely responsible for the retreat from Manawapou. Colonel McDonnell had requested tarn distinctly to deny this. Colonel McDonnell had asked for leave to attend his dying wife, and when he returned to duty he found Manawapou deserted, and at once ordered the re-occupa-tion of some other abandoned posts. If the Government was likely to remain in office he (Mr. Ormond) would ask fer a committee of enquiry into this matter, but such a course would scarcely be necessary. Colonel McDonnell while in command had kept the enemy at bay and across the Patea Eiver, arid after his retirement the enemy had crossed, and overrun the country almost to the town of Wanganui. It was very difficult to know what really had been done since McDonnell's retirement, for the des- ; patches published, instead of being regarded as true histories, wore considered by the country as mere romances. As for all the talk about unparalleled difficulties arid successes, it was half-a-dozen to to the Government and six to the colonial troops ; but it was quite untrue. Majors Frascr and Biggs, with a much smaller force on the East Coast, had done infinitely more than had ever been done since, and expressions like those used wei'e most unfair to those who had done far greater things. As to the employment of Imperial troops, he did not think the dignity of the colony would at all suffer by asking for • them, and if they could be got he would be glad to get them, but he was not at all prepared to say that they could be got ; at the same time, he thought it the duty of the colony to place its position clearly before the English bondholders, so that they might know clearly what things might ultimately come to if the colony was left unassisted. The force now maintained by the Colony was worse than useless. The colony could not afford to maintain it, and it was absurd to use thousands of men to pursue hundreds. We should never make any impression on the natives until we did what we had done before — fight them with equal numbers. The advance into the Urewera country he admitted to bo a necessary movement, but it was undertaken at a time of the year when success was impossible, and of this Government had been repeatedly warned by all who were capable of judging. Why, the very Government Agent at Napier had spoken of it as very good news when Whitmore was reported to have got safely out of the busk back to the place lie started from, and without having done anything. He wai*ned the House that it would some day have to face the whole power of the King, and he wanted to know what preparation had been made to meet such a contingency. Sorry as he was to differ from Mr. ltolleston, ho felt bound to warn that gentleman and the Southern members that a policy ' of withdrawal was now impossible, and that if possible it would be utterly ruinous. Withdrawal from the confiscated lands would only lead to aggressive operations in the settled districts. The natives would never let us rest if they saw us retreating. The only policy now open to us was to follow the rebels into their own fastnesses. This we should have to do sooner or later, and now was the time to do it, for the natives, were, now at our mercy more than thoy fever were before. Again, he differed from the Southern members as to the employment of friendly natives. We must employ them ; they had served us loyally in the past, and no doubt, if properly managed, would do so again ; but if we did not employ them, their excitability was such that they would join our enemies rather than not act in the matter at all. . They would fight on one side or the other. Mr. Ormond. then proceeded to speak of the services rendered by loyal natives in the past, and he afterwards went on to trace the course of events on the East Coast since Mr. M'Lean's removal from the office of Government Agent, declaring that out of the. 12, or at most 20, men who in. Hawke's Bay Province took the Government side, they had appointed the most unpopular man as Mr. M'Lean's successor. The whole course of events proved Mr. Eichniond not to be the man to deal with the natires in the present critical state. of affairs. A clear, concise account of the events, prior to the Poverty Bay massacre was given, and Mr. Ormond declared his

own conviction' (shared in it Hy almost every vrnftni in his Province), that that was entirely owing to ; tfiff actions arid neglect of the Govern* ment on/whose heads the blood of, those then rested. During the course-of a long detailed account of East- Coast -proceed* ings, Mr. Ormond declared it : t6 r bo dis* graceful and indecent thafc \t lie ,commanderof the foreo&'(Coloaer.WhitmQre). should be for weeks in Wellington, acting, as he notoriously was, ■ chief touter to the Government. Alluding, to Ngatapa, Mr, Ormond. declared that,, from careful enquiries, he did not believe more than 50 men of the enemy had been killed there. The despatch from Colonel Whitmere wiis a mere romance on all that was done by our native allies, and our prestige suffering inconsequence. ; >I3tedid not wish to deprecate real services, now-a-days successos were made rOstovieS of, and defeats were made successes oeL paper.", Mr. Ormond at great length explained the whole of the circumstances relating to Mr. M'Lean's advice to Eopata not to leave the East Coast, and his consequent' dismissal. Mr. Atkinson's appointment to enlist the Ngatiporou was strongly; condem&ed, he being a person of not very reputable character. - He (Mr. Ormond) positively asserted that all that Mr. M'Lean did in regard to Eopata was torefuse 1 16 ! give' to that chief advice, as if from* 'himself, to do what he disapproved of. ; Mc^ : t'i6f the charges which bad been used to;.- degrade Mr. M'Lean— disgrace* fully Used 3 to degrade an officer of his high charabfce^arid position — were totally false and"%&mpes; up. 'The House and, the counfa-j icowld judge between. Mr. McLean ■■>* and- the ;Goveranaent, and he was not afraid: of the verdict. Mr. Ormond concluded ; a. -speech of nearly three hours' duration- by saying that if the Op.po-_ sitiott -was asked what they could do,he would, say that it worild remove., the ..present native Minister, and re- . place, him by Mr. M'Lean ; that it . would free the colony from the mismanage*, ment; of the present Defence Minister, And: place in 'office a set of men who would not . mischievously interfere with the established institutions of the country. Bad,; would it be for the colony if it could not find men of equal ability to replace those now in office ; and for himself he could, say that any change, he thought, must be one for the better.