PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 7, Issue 504, 2 July 1864, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wednesday, June .29. The Council met at 3 o'clock. Present, the Speaker and all the members. Privilege. Mr. Colenso referred to the question raised at the end of last session with reference to the validity of his seat in the Council, and read the resolution arrived at. Five months, he said, had elapsed since that resolution was passed ; he presumed that the Superintendent had taken the steps he was therein requested to take ; and, as no further action^had been taken in the matter, he (Mr. Colenso) therefore assumed that the question had been set at rest. He was so far confirmed in this view by finding that the Superintendent, in a notice of motion he gave yesterday, had included his (Mr. Colenso's) name in the list of members who were to form a committee. So far, it would appear that the Government had taken one step towards making reparation. While it was his wish that bygones should be bygones, be would .vet remark that such attempts to invalidate the seat of a member who had been sitting for a length of time, could not fail to be injurious to the Council. Had the attempt been made immediately succeeding his election, instead of a long time after, when nothing new could be brought forward, it would have assumed a very different aspect. On the occasion he bad l-eferredto — when the discussion took place upon the question raised — the member for Porangahau had almost gone so far as to call for his (Mr. Colenso's) forcible ejectment ; the member for Olive expressed himself pretty strongly upon the question of the invalidity of his (Mr. Colenso's) seat ; while, subsequently, the Herald, which was usually considered the government organ, had said in a leading article that no doubt could exist as to the fact of the seat being vacant. He hoped, in conclusion, that if the government thought it necessary, at any future time, to bring forward a motion of this nature, they would do it in a more temperate and moderate way. The following is the resolution of last session to which Mr. Colenso referred :— "That doubts having arisen as to the right of Mr. Coienso to sit in this Council, it i? the opinion of this Council that His Honor the Superintendent shall without delay obtain all the evidence that can be procured as to the disqualification of the said member. Should this evidence be conclusive, it is the opinion of this Council that a " new writ " should be issued in accordance with clause 12 of the Constitution Act, and the provisions of the Disqualification Act 1858 of the General Assembly of New Zealand." .. „ ■■■:-- ' " - Mr. M'Lean would say a few words as to the action taken by the Government in reference to this matter. In pursuance of the resolution passed by the Provincial Council, the government had got up the necessary evidence and had taken the opinion of the Provincial- Law Officer : they had also forwardedthe resolution to the. General Government, with a request that the opinion of the Attorney- General might be taken upon the

point raisal: The correspondence having been laid upon the. table, it would be : seen that the question could only be decided by the Supreme Court, and that neither the Council nor the Superintendent could take any action in the matter. The case," therefore, remained exactly as it stood at the close of last session. Wellington Acts. Mr. M'Lean moved that a select committee be* appointed for the purpose of examining the Provincial Acts in force in the Province, with instructions to report to this Council on the following points : — 1. What Acts appear inapplicable to the Province of Hawke's Bay, and should therefore be repealed. 2. What Acts appear to require amendment, and the basis upon which such amendment should be founded. 3. What would be the probable expense that •would be incurred in printing the Acts of the -.' Province, when their re-arrangement is com- * pleted. — Such select committee to consist of Messrs. Rhodes, Tiffen, . Ortnond, Colenso, Curling, and the mover. He said it was exceedingly desirable that the state of the law in the province should be more clearly understood. Owing to many of the old Wellington Acts being still in operation within the province, a good deal of ignorance and misapprehension prevailed, which it was very necessary to do away with. There should b"e a clear and distinct understanding as to what laws were actually in force ; and steps should be taken to have such Acts repealed as were found to be un■suitable. He would add to the motion, that the report be brought up on Tuesday the 12th July. . Mr. Colenso cordially agreed with the object in view in appointing the committee, but he feared it would be quite impossible to get through the work by the time named, — if indeed during the session. A resolution of a similar nature had been repeatedly passed in former sessions, and it had been invariably found that nothing could be done in time. Mr. Colenso here read an extract from a speech lately delivered by Mr. Borlase in the Wellington Provincial Council, who, when speaking of a motion bearing some affinity to the one now before the Council, said that the magnitude of the work was such that it could not be overtaken by & select committee, and suggested, as the only v» ay he saw of getting it done, that the task should be entrusted to ah editor or litterateur. .He (Mr. Colenso) would, however, "be happy to join the Superintendent in the work of the committee, and would suggest that at all events, as much time as possible should be given. Mr, Obmond said that the remarks of the last speaker were to a certain extent true ; no doubt it was a question of time and trouble— so much so that all former Councils had, as it were, shrunk from it. But in the present extraordinary state of the law, he hoped the members of the committee would enter upon the work in the same spirit as that displayed by the member for Napier, and that a great effort would be made to get, through with it this session. If this could not be accomplished, then it could be completed when the Council again met. He would suggest that the day named for bringing up the report should remain, seeing that, if necessary, it could be extended. Mr. Fitzgerald thought there .could be no objection to continuing the sittings of the committee even after the close of the session, so that a report might be ready for the next sitting of the Council. Mr. Tiffen knowing, as he did, that the Provincial Acts were in a state of almost inextricable confusion, would cordially support the motion. It was quite true that time for such a work was very short, but the committee could ask for an extension of time. The motion was then put and carried. Highways Bill. Mr. Ormond moved that, in the opinion of this Council, it is desirable that a Bill should be passed during the present session for the future regulation and management of the highways of the Province. — That such Bill should make provision for the following : — That the public roads j of the province shall be under the control of the Executive Government, excepting t as otherwise provided for in the Act. That in cases where application shall be made in that behalf by such a number of the inhabitants of any district .as shall represent three-fourths of the votes of such district, the Superintendent shall proclaim the said district as subject to the control of a Road Board, which shall be elective, and shall have full power and authority to- assess rates for the construction and repair of any branch roads within the boundaries of their district. That the necessary provisions shall be contained in the Bill for the manner of election of the Board, and all other matters connected with its powers and working. That all drays and carts shall be registered with a view to levying a rate upon every cart or dray using a tire of less than inches. —He said that this resolution might have been embodied in the last, but the government had tabled this in order that they might have a basis upon which to prepare a Highways Bill, so that work might be at onae placed before the Council. Daring tho recess, the Provincial Engineer had lent his valuable assistance in the preparation of a Bill, but it was a very voluminous document, making very heavy work in committee ; and, therefore, before bringing it "or any measure down the government wanted the sense of the Council as to the principles upon which it should be based. With regard to the first point affirmed by the resolutions— that the public roads should be under the control of the Executive, — this, he thought, would be at once conceded. As to the next — that concerning the formation of Road Boards, it_was most important that the Council should decide whether the establishment of such Boards should be obligatory, or upon the application of ascertain number of voters in the district. These Boards would not, he thought, work . well in a thinly populated district ; at the same time it was well they should have the power of establishing such, -if they desired it. But it was for the Council ,to say „ how, this would be., The machinery for elections would be provided for in -the Act, but he would here remark- that/ as aj

general rule, property should be represented— that it should fairly be considered in the .apportionment of votes. The minimum, in some provinces was 1 vote for property representing £10, and the maximum, 7 votes for property representing £1200. But there were many points in the working of such a bill— for example as to the right of Boards to take land for roads— that would have to be considered hereafter. What he now wanted chiefly was a general expression of opinion — first, as to whether such a bill was wanted at all ; and, second, as to whether the creation of Boards should be compulsory or permissive. Mr. Colenso asked wherein those resolutions differed from the Wellington Acts now in force. Mr. Okmond was but imperfectly acquainted with the Wellington Acts ; but, in considering the subject, the government had been partly guided by the Acts of Welliugton and the other provinces; and partly by Acts which were in operation iv the adjoining colonies. Reverting to the resolution, the last clause was very necessary — providing as it did for an increased width of tyre to dray wheels. The roads were now in a satisfactory state, and this was the only way they could be kept in good order. Ono point it would be well not to overlook — the state of their relations with the natives in this respect. They had no doubt read the despatch, of the Secretary of State — that it would not be allowed to make rights of road through native land. Were this injunction to be carried out in its entirety, tho country would be completely cut off from the town of Napier. He (Mr. Ormond) meutioned this, not that there was justice in it, but because actual instructions to that effect had been received. With reference to the resolutions, the government was quite willing either to go on with the discussion or to agree to its postponement, as members might prefer. Mr. Colenso was not in a position to say much ; but, as discussion had been invited, he would say a few words. He should have expected thegovernraent, seeing that the Wellington Acts are in force within this province, and un repealed, to have taken those Acts, which were the result of experience, for a guide, and to have introduced such amendments as were demanded by the exigencies of this province ; whereas, on the contrary, the government would seem to have prepared a measure almost, he might say, irrespective of Wellington legislation. (No, from (he government). As it was, he scarcely knew how to vote. He saw no objection to the resolution, on the face of it, but he had no idea as to what, if any, necessity existed for such provisions. Mr. Tiffen would ■cordially support the resolutions. At present, the Wellington Road Acts were some seven or eight in_ number, ani to wade through them, to ascertain how the law bore on any particular case was endless, and unsatisfactory. No one knew, scarcely, under what laws he was living, lie was glad to see an effort made lo compel carriers to increase the Avidth of the tyres of their wheels — a most necessary provision, but one which he could not see in any Provincial Act. The manner in which the roads were cut up by heavily loaded drays with narrow wheels, had come under the notice of every one. In fact, were the practice not stopped, all that the government spent upon roads in summer would be wasted in winter. He would suggest also to the government whether it would not be desirable to have a weigh-bridge, so as to regulate the-weight put on drays, otherwise the additional weight might do away with the benefit of the broad tyre. He trusted the resolution would be passed at once, as no time should be lost in substituting one Act for the seven or eight now in operation. Mr. Rhodes would support the motion, although inclined to think it would have been better had this bill been referred to the select committee upon Wellington Acts generally. Mr. McLean said that if members wanted more time for the consideration of this subject, the government was perfectly willing. The vexed subject of taxation being involved, made it more necessary, perhaps, that the subject should be carefully considered. Mr. Obmond was quite willing for a postponement ; but should like to have had some expression of opinion from the Council, in order that the government might not bring down a bill, and then find, perhaps, its fundamental principle objected to. With regard to the suggestion as to a .weighing 'machine, the government thought it would be too expensive — that the traffic, at present, would not pay for keeping it up. It was true that an over heavy load might be put upon a dray, but a regulation as to the breadth of tyres would in a great measure meet the difficulty. Mr. Kennedy, although he himself saw no great occasion for postponement, would move as an amendment that the considerations of the resolutions be adjourned. Mr. Colenso would previously have moved such an amendment bad he been able to see that any good would result. The Council would just be in the same position another day. There were several Wellington Acts, of which he had only seen two, one of which consisted of 140 clauses ami the other of nearly 50. ,In order to be able to speak to the subject, it would be necessary to have access to all thtse Acts, and to have time to go over them. Had the government even said that, during the recess they had real over these Acts and carefully considered them he would have been satisfied. Mr. Tiffen said that the government had asked for data upon which to frame a bill, and he could seenot the slightest need for procrastination. Let the resolution be passed at once, and thus give'the government an extra day for preparing the trill. - " s Mr. McLean said that, during the recess, tho government had considered all the Wellington Road Acts, and had found much of their voluminous contents to be unworkable. They had therefore deemed it best to prepare a new Act. The Provincial Engineer had given the benefit of his American aud other experience in its preparation, and they were also indebted to a Melbourne Road Act, as well as to other Provincial Acts. Mr. Fitzgerald presumed that the new Act would repeal the old Wellington Acts that had been referred to. ....'•'• , Mr. Obmond said that it would. , . Mr. Kennedy, seeing that the sense of the Council was against the amendment, would with- : draw it. • . • '

The resolutions were then put and passed. Mr. McLean laid on the table a letter from the Colonial Secretary, to the effect that the " General Government was not aware of any means by which Acts or Ordinances of a Provincial Legislature could be made. legally to atlect native. Lands, as the Constitution^ Act expressly forbids Provincial laws to be niade*affecting native lands." Gates oii Public Road at Mcanee. . Mr. Dolbel asked the Superintendent whether he has given authority to any persons to erect gates across the public road leading along the bank of the Meanee river ; and whether he is aware that the said gates,' by their narrownesSj are a great obstruction on that road ; and whether, if such authority has been given, the provisions of clause four of the Highways Act have been complied with. — He said that Capt. Russell had erected two gates between Puketapu and Greenmeadows — about a quarter of a mile apart, and so narrow that it was impossible for a dray with a loud of hay to be taken through. It was a very great inconvenience to the public. Mr. McLean said that no application for the erection of gates had been made to the government either by Capt. Russell or the former proprietor." He had already heard it complained that these gates were an inconvenience to the public. He believed, however, that Capt. Russell was willing to remove them — they being really of no use to him, seeing that persons who went through generally left them open. The Council then adjourned till Thursday.