MR HOLYOAKE M.P.

Grey River Argus, 11 February 1938, Page 8

MR HOLYOAKE M.P.

ADDRESS AT GREYMOUTH National Party’s Attitude , |Or IV ‘ OW warm reception trom an ceivetl a warm i ~'n nail-lHieu audimtce « rn-e ng Ml the Town Halli las punctuated Holyoake’s add numoureu bv a running tire or gouu ‘"S/w pre . SP Mr k Holyoake said that he had been jn’paHiament for the last «ve or s.a years, and felt that good reception on the for he knew Mr O Brien. A voice: A good man, o . k r t ha O i y he ke w a o S ui e d e dweSneSPUrsaid that he thrive d on them when he was going l o m essen tial erloo. He felt that it l h at ild t get down to basic principles, should get iiu » tn-dav was BTwSgSe ‘Xe w s :"S°” could plan ahead for a sene When the standards of living 01 people were lowered, attention rrivpn to what was wrong. Most ie formers dealt 'in platitudes. ’ poverty amid Plenty. b«“ thought s Sieving m the <n" d «“e"'S ey °' c “ S'S? 11 :.: 1 Tound'wf temporariiy f as Ol ”?undamen t any and tasicanv wrong, and must be replaced m It. entiretv. In Russia, they had the e. periment of the latter of thought conducted on-a huge scale whilst in Italy. Germany, and other countries they had a composite sysfem "t was Sigh time they got down to bedrock and decided to A voice: Stick to New Zealand. Mr Holyoake: I said that I calle this meeting to address you on political affairs. I have said nothing against Russia. If there is any good in Communism, let us have it. Continuing, the speaker said that tn the past, fundamentals had not been so closely examined as the, must be in the future. Up till last voice: You got it in the neck! SOCIALISM AND CAPITALISM. Mr Holyoake said that both the old Liberal and Reform Parties were based on the capitalist system. Opposed to that was Socialism, and the speaker added that everyone had the right to his opinion. He wondered why there had been such battles between the old parties in the past, for their differences were mainly on the land tenure system. Seddon, perhaps the most rugged man New Zealand politics had known, had never stated that Socialism was , best for the people. The Labour Party claimed that capitalism had failed, but the speaker questioned that assertion. There was a real basic aifference between the policies of the National and Labour Parties. The National Party stood for capitalism, and the Labour Party for Socialism. Capitalism was based on private ownership, and control of industry, with rewards according to the initiative, energy, and ability of the individual. Socialism stood for the State ownership and control of industry, with equal rewards for all. His mission was to get people off the fence. | A voice: You slipped underneath the barbed wire! I

Mr Holvoake: Do I look torn or ragged? J I The speaker went on to state that the people of New Zealand would be classed either as Conservatives or Radicals, the latter embracing Socialists, Communists, and all other similar classes. A voice: Call them the cosmopolitans!

Mr Holyoake: Yes. I belong to the more conservative school of thought, which believes in moving forward very cautiously. We have heard it said that the Government is responsible for the prosperity of New Zealand. A voice: So it is.

Mr Holyoake: Is it? Is the Government responsible for the prosperity of New South Wales or England? I think it is in inverse ratio. I yield to no one in my desire to give a better standard of living to everyone. A voice: Do you believe in 7s 6d a week slave camps?

Mr Holyoake: Yes, I saw them, so I couldn’t help believing. No man in the world wants to establish them. They are a blot on civilisation; but can anyone tell me what the Labour Government would have done to do something better in the slump time? At this stage there was considerable commotion, which led Mr Holyoake to remark, “One man can spoil a meeting! I’ve got a voice as loud as anyone in the hall.” Mr Holyoake said that radicals did not believe in tradition, and saw nothing good in the present system. They were in fact revolutionaries. Both parties claimed that they were doing the greatest good for the people, but the speaker contended that -the man on the lowest rung of the

ladder was better off under capitalism than he would be under State ownership. A voice: Did you always believe that?

Mr 1 Holyoake replied that he did. and he added that the sustenance man in the slump enjoyed more than the millionaire did lifty years ago. He asked who could prove that under the Socialist system the poorest would be better off than’- they would be under the capitalist sj-stem. A voice: Can you prove the opposite?

Mr Holyoake: No one can prove anything. It’s a matter of opinion: The Bible says that the poor will always be with us. I say that conditions under a Labour Government in a slump would be no better anywhere. No Socialist system has seen a standard of living higher than under capitalism.

The Mayor, at this stage, intervened to ask interjectors to leave their questions until question time.' This statement was made in the midst of considerable noise. Voices: Speak up, Bill!

Mr Holyoake: The Mayor has just said that we hope you will interject in unison, so that we will know what you are talking about. The> speaker said that New Zealand had had quite a big dose of -class legislation, and could not continue to thrive on it. They must evolve a system to help all sections of the people.A voice: Did the last Government do that?

Mr Holyoake: The Labour Party has been in office for two and a half years. About six months after it was elected, all sections opposed to Socialism met together and formed the National Party, which had a policy as democratic as could be found anywhere in the world.

Voices: Have they got a policy yet?

Mr Holyoake: Might I ask what is the Labour Party’s policy? Are they going in for complete Socialism? The Labour Party_ is introducing Socialism as rapidly as possible to-day. A voice: “Beautiful!” (Laughter). Mr Holyoake: I’m glad to hear that because I so often have denials of it. I can see no difference between Socialism and Communism. Both are based on State control. We can have as much social legislation as we like without socialism. Seddon introduced advanced social legislation without being a socialist. We could have higher pensions and wages, and a higher standard of living under a modified capitalist system over a much longer TX? r i'id than we can have under Socialism.

A voice: Why did they cut the old age pensions? Mr Holyoake: I didn’t cut pensions! I wasn’t in Parliament at the time, but what else could they do? A voice: Give Sterling another £1500!

Uproar followed, and when Mr Holyoake was able to resume, he informed one interjector that he was a hopgrower, but added: “You seem to be at the other end of the argu-l ment!” (Loud laughter).

One member of the audience here made attempts to address the meeting, and Mr Holyoake added that he did not know if he should move a vote of thanks to the speaker. TAXATION AND LABOUR. ■ “I believe that any party going to the country and placing a manifesto Jiefore the people should carry out its promises,” said the speaker. “The present Government promised if elected to reduce taxation.” Voices: So they will. Who put it on? Mr Holyoake: Instead of reducing taxation, they have added ten millions as compared with 1935. The Government is not giving that to the people. A voice: We’re getting it all right! Mr Holyoake: It is the higher prices of our primary products that enable you to get more. Mr Savage said before the last election— A voice: What did you get that out of? Mr Holyoake: It was in the “Evening Post”~and “Dominion.” A voice: It never came over the wireless! Another voice: They are both Nationalist papers. Mr Holyoakel It is dated November 5. “I believe that radio in Parliament is a good innovation,” said Mr Holyoake in reply to an interjection. A voice: It’s the finest thing that’s happened! Mr Holyoake: Yes. It is going to play the greatest part in putting the present Government out of office (Uproar). Every time a National Member speaks, you are clapping. (Hoots). A voice: You’ll go out at the next election. Mr Holyoake: I might. What do I care? Continuing, the speaker said that in 1931 the Government was faced with a deficit of £9,0001)0, and the Labour Party, then in" Opposition, had claimed that there was no need to increase taxation. The present Government had increased taxation by ten millions, four and a half millions being in sales tax and customs duties. Mr Holyoake produced a copy of a letter signed by Mr Savage in which the then Leader of the Opposition stated that the sales tax was the most unjust tax of all, and that the Labour Party would lose no time in removing it. Mr Holyoake stated that the abolition of the sales tax would mean increasing wages by 5 per cent. This year’s Budget provided for taxation at the rate of £22 10s per head. A voice: What was it in 1934? Mr Holyoake: £l4, and in 1935 £l5 something. A voice: £l9. Mr Holyoake: “Wait a minute. It

/was £lB 15s, I think. The average family man this year will pay in State taxation approximately £90.” He did not agree that the State could spend money better than the' individual. A voice: Your Government spent the people’s money on millionaires' buildings. Another■ voice: Didn’t you vote for lower wages? Mr Holyoake: I’ve never done that. Produce Hansard with it in it, and I’ll give £lOO to any charity in this town. We have armies of inspectors these days, and in the last two years the Government has added 8000 to the Public Service, apart from Public Works. Voices: They were on the dole five years ago. Mr Holyoake: But they are not producing wealth. A voice: Neither are you. Mr Holyoake: A little over twelve hours ago, I was driving a lorry, and I’ve driven 250 miles since. A voice: Two jobs? Mr Holyoake said that the inspectors were consuming the wealth of the people. Last year we received just on thirty millions more for our exports than we did in the slump years. A voice: We never borrowed a sixpence from the Jews, either! Mr Holyoake: This Government in its two years has borrowed more than the previous Government did in three years. Voices: Did this Government go to London for the money? Mr Holyoake: Did the last Government? Voices: Of course it did. Mr Holyoake: Why don’t you show a little sportsmanship? I’ve played rep. Rugby in this town three times, and I’ve travelled over 250 miles today to be here to-night. I’ve got a fairly good voice, and I’ll match it with anyone in Parliament, and, in fact, in New Zealand. If you think you can break up my meeting with your voices— z An elderly voice: Oh, no, no, no, boy! (Laughter). Mr Holyoake went on to refer to the creation of new State Departments, mentioning the salaries received by Professor Shelley, Rev. Scrimgeour, Messrs Picot and Duncan. . He said that the salaries they received did not correspond with the statements that Government Members made previously that no man should receive more than £5OO. Ho remarked that he had listened to Mr A. F. Moncur, M.P., at Riwaka, and had heard him praising up the Reserve Bank and the Mortgage Corporation. The last Government set the Bank up. A Voice: Qtto Niemeyer told you to. Mr. Holyoake: What has the present Government done about it? j A Voice: We have used it. Mr. Holyoake said that they had been told that the last Government was in the grip of the banks and the Jews. He reminded his hearers that the' Government set the Reserve Bank up in face of the opposition of the other banks, to take the” profits for the people. When the Government came to appoint directors, who did it appoint? A Voice: A Polish Jew Mr. Holyoake: The last Government made provision that only New Zealand-born British subjects could be Directors, but the first thing the Labour Government did was to place Mr. Mark Silverstone on the directorate. “We know him to be a Communist ” said Mr. Holyoake. “We were told that he was Chairman of the Dunedin City Finance Committee, but we found out that he held that position only for six months. A Voice: Can you explain why your Government paid the Governor of the Bank £5OOO a year free of tax? Mr. Holyoake: When you want goods or services or even men, you have to pay them according to their market value. The Government are saying that it is the best hank in New Zealand. A Voice: Under State control! Mr. Holyoake: Not State control--It is political control. A Voice: Be fair. Mr. Holyoake: In my electorate, even my most bitter opponent has never accused me of , being unfair. The speaker said that the Directors were now on the Board during the pleasure of the Minister —that meant that they were there as long as the Minister liked. With political control the money system could be so abused that -it would cause serious trouble in the country. Political control enabled a Government to inflate as it pleased. HOUSING SCHEME. Mr. Holyoake criticised the Housing scheme of the Government,- stating that in the 1936'Budget, the Minister stated that the houses could be built for' £6OO, and that the wotkers would have cheap homes. The houses were actually costing anything from £lOOO to £l3OO for 5 and 6 roomed houses. A Voice: That’s out of Hamilton’s book. Mr. Holyoake: As a matter of fact, Hamilton has taken that out of my book, as I am the housing expert of the Party. The houses were going to be 12s 6d to 17s 6d but they are 27s 6d to 35s for workers homes.” The worker, he said was further away from securing his own home than ever before. The Housing Department had done good work, but New Zealand, with State housing was building less houses to-day than it was under private enterprise. They built 4140 in 1935, and in 1937 there were only 100 more. Yet the country was receiving twenty millions more from overseas for its primary products. The working man could not afford the houses; and could not pay for them. A Voice: How many were thrown out in the depression? Mr. Holyoake: I’m just wondering how many are thrown out of meetings here. A Voice: By how many has the unemployed figure dropped?? Mr. Holyoake, said that the country had not gone so far in solving the problem as it should have done. There should be less unemployed with the prosperity New Zealand was having. The Minister ,of Labour stated that he had broken the back of the problem. A Voice: So he has.

Mr. Holyoake: Yes. And he’s broken the back of the taxpayers, too.

Referring briefly to expenditure on public works, Mr. Holyoake said that the Nelson Railway was losing £BO a week in the slump, but to-day was losing £lOO a week. Producing a statement of Hon. D. G. Sullivan, Mr. Holyoake stated that it would interest the ladies. A Woman’s Voice: I had nothing

fo live on when the last Government was in, but under the present Government I have got it. My husband is ill,' and the last Government nearly starved me (Applause). 1 . Mr. Holyoake: The last Government had to face the slump.. The Woman: No. they didn’t! In reply to a lady, who inquired why things had improved when the present Government came into office, Mr. Holyoake said that the-coun-try was past the worst of the slump. A Voice: Around the corner! (Laughter). -

Mr. Holyoake: The previous Government gave an increase of five per cent in wages' and seven and a half per cent in pensions in 1934, and the full old age pension was restored. A Voice: You’re making a mistake aren’t you? Mr. Holyoake: The new invalid pension didn’t cost as much as the restoration cost., but the present increases have been cancelled out by the increased cost of living. I want to ask the ladies what they are doing with that 5s extra promised by the Labour Party?

A Voice: Putting it in the bank of course.

Mr. Holyoake: Instead of saving 5s in the £l, it costs 25s to purchase what a pound would buy before. Attacking the Minister of Industries and Commerce, Mr. Holyoake said that the Minister could fix the price of anything he like'd. Mr. J. Scott: Will you tell us how the National Party proposed to increase wages and reduce prices? Mr. Holyoake: When did the National Party say that?

Mr. Scott: You are insinuating it in your remarks! Mr. Holyoake: I’m doing nothing of the sort. I say there is no need to employ these extra public servants. The Housing Department is a wasteful duplication of the building industry. A yoice: Would you reduce wages. Mr. Holyoake: The policy of the National Party is to , leave wages entirely to an unfettered Arbitration Court (uproar). In 1931 they took away compulsory arbitration because of the slump, and the speaker stated that there should be a penalty on both sides. A Voice: To help the -employer only? Mr. Holyoake. That is not true. The National Party voted against the compulsory clause last year. . A Voice: Didn’t you say that the 8000 civil servants employed by the present Government were producing nothing?

Mr. Holyoake: I did not. Oh, yes you did. : Mr. Holyoake said that the employment of these extras had the tendency to reduce the standard of living of the rest of the community, in his opinion. (Laughter). QUESTION TIME. Questioner: Why is it that your Government— Mr. Holyoake: Iv’e never had a Government! In a few years time, you’ll hear of the Holyoake Government, but Iv’e not had one yet! (Loud laughter). “Why didn’t Forbes and Coates make a trade agreement as Nash and Savage have done? Mr. Holyoake: The- trade agreements of the present Government are. not to be compared with the Ottawa Trade Agreement. Mr. M. Gibbins: Under the present Government, the Whippet Club has asked £or a 5s totalisator. Which way will you vote if it comes up in the House. Mr. Holyoake. I prefer not to answer. I would prefer to confer with my colleagues. I might add that I’m in favour of national sweepstakes. I say that unhesitatingly. Mr. Gibbins: Would you be in favour of stopping the tote results going to the bookmakers through the P. and T7\ Department? A Voice: “Are you going to the dogs, Moss” (Laughter). ' Mr. Holyoake: I would not. like to answer that question at the moment. “Do you believe in the abolition of the Upper House,” was another question.

Mr. Holyoake replied that he did not, but that he preferred an elective chamber of about 20 members wjth a judge of the Supreme Court to preside. Mr. J. Haddock: If the National Party is returned to power, will they retain the 40 hour week or go back to 48 hours? 1

Mr. Holyoake said that some were working less than 40 hours under the past Government. He would leave the hour question to the Arbitration Court, untrammelled, instead of by direction as was done to-day. He was a staunch Unionist.

A Voice: That is why you worked 12 hours yesterday?. > “Are you in favour of the threeyear Parliament?” was another question. Mr. Holyoake replied that he favoured five year Parliaments.

Would you mind telling us what the National Party proposes?” asked Mr. J. Scott. . 11

Mr. Holyoake: I always get that. It’s not our function to give a policy. The Government is in the dock, and it is our function to criticise their legislation, and put forward our policy at the election. As a matter of fact our policy was published a few days ago. In reply to Mr. A. Fielding, who asked why the National Party was opposed to Guaranteed Prices, Mr. Holyoake said that if Guaranteed Prices had any effect in England, it would be to lower the price of New Zealand butter.

“Do you think the guaranteed price a fair price?”

Mr. Holyoake: The dairy farmer- is on quite a good wicket. I agree with the Guaranteed Price. We have had it in the fruit industry for 15 years, but what we object to'is that the Government has taken over the whole of the produce from the producer. It’s just the hand of socialism again. Some humourous questions kept the the crowd in glee for a few minutes, but neither Mr. Holyoake nor many members of the audience could follow the trend of the questions. Mr. Haddock: Would you be in favour of dismissing the 8000 civil ser-l vants.

Mr Holyoake said that there was no need to employ them all. He would abolish the Housing and the Marketing Departments. • “Are you in favour of the Public Works Policy,” asked a questioner. Mr Holyoake said that he believed public works expenditure should be tapered off in prosperous times so that industry could re-establish itself. A ( Mr. Holyoake criticised the manner in which the Government had dealt with the Onakaka Ironworks, declaring that big English capital which

would be working the works would not do so until the Government gave assurances that the state would not take over the works and that dumping duties would be imposed if necessary. On the motion of Mr. J. W. Greenslade (Chairman of the National Party’s Greymouth Committee) Mr. Holyoake was accorded a vote of thanks, a similar vote being passed to the Mayor.