DEPUTATION TO M.P.s.

Grey River Argus, 24 July 1923, Page 8

DEPUTATION TO M.P.s.

DAIRY PRODUCE EXPORT BILL. : RIVALS ADDRESS LABOUR, ; MEMBERS. ; THREE SIDES OF THE QEESTION. > ji._. > 1 he members of 1 ho I’ar] ia men I ary > Labour Party had the unique l experience on Tuesday of being addressed ■' by the principal supporter of the > above Bill, Mr Grounds; also, its prim ''’pal opponent, Mr McEwan; and Mr > ll.lie. representing the .farmers who J oppose it. Mr Grounds spoke from 10 a.m. till ' 11 a.m.. and answered several quest- . ions. Mr Ale Ewan spoke from 11 a.m. ’ to noon, and also answered several ’ questions. The Loader of the Labour ' Party. Mr 11. E. Holland, occupied r I ill * chair. i Mr Grounds said one of the rea- . (>ns for the pooling of our dairy oxI ports was that they could secure shipI ping space nt a much cheaper rate than al prest'nl. Thon lh'<' dairy factories could not advertise so as to make New Zealand dairy factories’ products popular with the British public. One factory in Waikato did some advertising, but the value of it was lost on account of oilier tactories not assisting, lie did not advocate indiscriminate advertising; the industry should Ik' so organised that, when a di mand was created by advertising, the supply would bo there to meet the demand. The shipping companies were treating the New Zealand producer very unfairly. For iustan.(*e, boats 'would call at Dunkirk wi.h 5,000 boxes of Australian butter, but they wanted 50,000 boxes of New Zealand butter before they would call there while on their way to England. New Zealand sent fifteen per cent, more dairy produce to Great Britain than any other country. They wore beaten by some countries on their export. of butter, but the.v made it up in cheese. This export should be controlled so that it would secure the advantage of careful marketing, and supplies should be sent forward so tliat the market would not be glutted one week and, bare th» next. A steady supply was necessary. rheir opponents said they objected to the compulsion in the Bill. H<‘ thought that the individual should be willing to bow to the will of the majority. Their opponents said they ;wero interfering with the law of supply and demand. Those words were a very good mouthful and were used dogmatically. but economic students k.iiry-V that it is quite possible for a huge supply and a huge, demand 1o be side by side, the one having no knowledge of ihe other, because Hie organisation between them had broken down. Supply and demand were simply ,l good mouthful which was used to mislead people. In answer to questions, Mr Grounds stated there was no compulsion in Denmark, b # ut it was not necessary there, because they were mostly small composite farmers, who thoroughly understood co-operation. It was th rue that ships could be chartered to carry butter and cheese to England and come bark in ballast, and charge a freight much less than is charged to-day. They could make such arrangement with a British firm that is outside of the I’, and O. combine. He deprecated the tendency to put. second-class butter on the New ’Zealand market, but there was very little second-class butter now bring made in New Zealand. In fact it was freely admitted that they had been successful in raising the standard of New Zealand butter until it is equal to best Danish. Sir Thomas Clements was one of the largest butter importers in England, ami the latest advices from there showed that most of live largest importers were willing to co-operate with tin* producers in the pool. It was not intended. Io buy ships, but to make terms with an English firm. It would be necessary to have a man in London to control the activities of the Jloard there. ’l’bis man should thoroughly understand the business, and be of undoubted integrity. The meeting accorded Mr Grounds a hearty \(>te of thanks for his interesting address. AGAINST THE BILL. •Mi" McEwan said tliai, in his young days, he had been farming in Later on. he went into the export, trade, until I.' was thoroughly acquainted with the production and distribution of dairy produce. He came to New Zealand and took up the position of Dairy Commissioner, but he was not in Jove with Government work—there were too much red tape, and restrictions. Canada had a different system of marketing her goods to either Denmark or New Zealand. There, the butter and cheese was bought by the exporters, and was exported by them. I The sales were made from week to week, or month to month. When the I exporter paid the producer the price arranged for. then the material bought became his to do with as he would. It- was to him to say when h.‘ would put that produce on the market. The producer often got prices above market rates when the cLmpet- [ i! ion between th:* buyers was keen. ■ Canadian exporters had so organised I th- 1 <’ livery of butler to Great Britain that they knew almost to an hour when goods would arrive at their destination. The Danish butter had a much shorter run, and could be sent from Denmark to London without being frozen. It was preferred by consumers to Hie frozen New Zt?a]and

butter because it was more spreadable. They were opposed co the Dairy Pool because they objected to having .the marketing of their goods taken out of their ha mis. The eo-opcrators were mostly farmers, who had no business training. Tn. the intense commercial world. it was only the few who made good, and th;* farmers had no chance to learn the intricacies of the commercial world. They felt that, they could market their goods much better than ‘the pooh It would be possible for the proprietary concerns to come to an understanding with the co-operators in the matter of grail ing, branding, and freights; but they could not be expected to come to an ujidelstauding when the men they wore to work with did not understand marketing ami exporting. The dairying industry was a highly organised one and the Meat Control Board showed that New Zealand had not bon-elited more than the Argentine or Australia. There were 38 proprietary factories in ihe Dominion, and the Bill said that every one of these factories would be subservient to the Dairy Pool Board. Those factories bought cream from the farmer, and that cream is theirs by every right, but the Bill purposed to lake from them the right to market what was their own. No Government had the right to interfere with them, unless at. the time of war or other national crisis. Under i.he British constitution, it was doubtful whether the goods of the proprietary concerns could be taken away from them by any board or Act. Speaking as a proprietary man, he could say they ■were all at one with the co-operative societies as to the control of shipthing, grading, ami branding; but. the ’co-operative i(tcn were not trained commercial men. In training men tor commerce it was astounding to knov\ the few that made good. In answer to questions, Mr McEwan said that the proprietary factory handled about one-fifth of the total produce exported. IB* did not think the priq»rietary concerns and lire co-opera-tive factories could conn* together for their own benefit, unless they organised as a trust. The proprietary factories would not be in favour of the Pool, even if they had better representation on the Board. A vote of thanks Io the speaker, carried with aclcamation. concluded Mr McEwan’s address. FARMERS OPPOSE POOL.

Mr HiiK', represent ing the farmers who oppose the Dairy Control Pill, said he came before them as a small farmer—an actual milker of cows and maker of butter. lb held that the •majority of small farmers opposed the Bill, on th-e grounds that it is monopolistic The aim of the Bill was to control the market, and they thought that was wrong. What they should aim at was regular supplies. The storing of produce and holding up for higher prices demoralised the market. Had the market been supplied constantly, they would not have had the slump in live price of butter. It was practically a butter Bill, because cheese must he put on the market quickly, else it would rot. Some jicopl? spoke of controlling a market, ami were against it when the control went against them, hut if they could get a higher price for their produce, they were satisfied. The seasons here ■wore opposite to the seasons in Europe, therefore it was necessary to got their produce on the London market as soon as possible. A continuity of supplies was against the interest of the fanners. The Bill meant that the farmers would he allowed to milk the cows and make the butter, but then ihe Board took charge of the product. As regards finance, land had gone to a ridiculous value, so as to make it hard for the farmers. It was coming down, hut the farmers were having a hard tiim?, and it was 'necessary for them to have their cheques nt the end of the month. Hu belonged to one of ihe oldest co-operative dairy factories in the Dominion, ami they had no trouble about finance. They had been of fered 1/9 per II» advance from the Bank of New Zealand; they had taken 1/(5, in that instance, and had overdrawn. as their butter did not fetch 1/(5. Their’s -was a small dairy factory, and they felt that they could finance better than larger concerns. If a pool started, llio farmers would not know when they u ere going to get their.money, which uncertainty would be disastrous for thi'in. 'Those behind the Bill were not farmers. He did not like to use the word parasites, but many of them were share-milkers —that is, they let their farms out on shares to others to do the work. Several of the largest factories dare not call a meeting of their suppliers to tost the farmers’ feeling on the matter. Two of the largest farmers in Taranaki-—who kept share milkers—were in favour of the Bill, hut those who did the actual work were against it. A referendum has never been taken of the men who were most interested—the men who did the drudgery. The men who upheld the Bill were opposed to preference to unionists in their factories. Those men who wer* actually behind the Bill did not come forward; they put other men. like Air ('rounds, up to do their work. He had nothing against that gentleman personally, but he was against tinheads of the great octopus, who were out to exploit all they came in contact with. These people had nothing to say about local trade. They daren’t come before the people or Dariinmoht and say th y were about to corner the Dominion trade. Even* .'dr Alassry would not stand for such a thing. The local prices would always be controlled by the IHomlon market —that went without saying. He had listened to a dehntn tn PfirTinment which dealt with

the huge sugar combine, and the Government showed they were unable to handle that monopoly. The proposed Bill was the start of another similar octopus. The promotors of the Bill seemed to think the farmers were people who wanted looking aft-er. They said: “Put. everything in our hands and we’ll do the rest.” In reply to questions, Mr Hine said he did not think any amendments would make the Bill acceptable to working farmers. He believed that if the combine went on, it would he absolute disaster, and would react against the farmers. II * did not think there would be any increase in price. If there was. the in would be more, than mopped up by the extra cost for storage, etc. There was only Australia and Argentine competing with New Zealand in sending butter to London Hint would hind there in. the English ■winter. Although conferences bad declared in favour of the Bill, he held that such declaration did not represent the opinion of the farmers. Il was possibb* to take a referendum of actual suppliers. but he believed that if such a vote was taken, a lot of them would not vote. He knew his brother farmer well. He would growl—but lie would not vote. A community of supply would not suit the farmers .as well as landing their produce in London in the off-season for tire farmers in the Northern Hemisphere. He did not think there was any trust operating in New Zealand at present. He had been farming since 1885. and knew of no such trust. Ho would sooner trust a reputable firm than ihe Board proposed to be set up. Ho did not impugn their honesty, but was afraid of their bungling. The commission charged to butter factories varied from 21 per cent, to 3 per cent., and in •exceptiVnal cases 4 per cent. Air Hine was accorded a hearty vote of thanks for his instructive address members stating they had been very much interested in the first-hand information ho had given them.