TIMBER COMMISSION

Grey River Argus, 20 April 1909, Page 4

TIMBER COMMISSION

MONDAY'S SITTING

•Uv> Timber Commisison resumed at ton o'clock yesterday morning. Mr T l)i! .can, chairman, and all n: v ... tL P - tther .uestidned as f0 To W MrEH.-He had had a good (1( , fl l of experience in sawmUhnff id , '. Cl hfcuids. In the North Island here was about 25 per cent waste in a white Pine I<W, and So per cent in rimu. The difference in waste was due to market requirements. If a market was. found for the waste it "onld be of benefit to the Dommloss and profit to the sawmiller. In ion and mean a difference between the'liv-ercs's of .all a market should he found for the product of all the bits Ho thought the Forestry Detriment should see that the man they leased land to should be an cxfci enced man. There was very /ittle chance of a sawmiller learning: jmydi'rifc ahout the industry, but his own practical experience. He would UUe to see literature distributed ocaJing- ( n he best and most economical way f milling. To Mr Arnold— The sawnuhng inriuHtn was not mismanaged. An inspector might do good. He would not like to see the conditions of labor in Oregon production introduced iw»o Now Zealand. He thought 25 per cent additional duty would protect the local industry. The price of the local product would not jump up in consequence as the Government could fix a maximum price. His firnV was not connected with any association! and they could sell at any price in any market. He thought rt a very improper practice, if it existed, of meidiants advising millers to refuse timber to certain builders. He •would not favor an export duty on white pine. There is a good deal of birch limber on the Coast, but it is. not muctv used. Red pine did not come into competition very much with Kauri He would not favour a,n export duty on Kauri. If there was a shortage in white pine elswhere it craild be supplied in any quantity by the West Coast Timber Company. It would not be practicable on >he West Coass tD 6» a» &c atiniag la via.tcr.

To Mr Stallworthy— He thought h wov)u be a fair protection if the Government increased the duty on Ore Kon and if the selling- price o f the 1-ai product exceeded a certain j, !ce the duty, could be taken off. To Mr Mander— In the Nort.'i island he kept tally of the loffs goliivr into the mill, .and the cutput. A miller could not iput up an up to-date Hani until he had an increased ?i---e.i of land He could not tell from a tree in the bush whether it contained figured timber or not. Th« ?*»<- miller cut all marketable limber cut of he bush on a face. He (.hough t n < ■ increased duty on Oregon pine vould In of benefit to the working pec pie. There should be no further restriction placed on the holders of t\- 9 K.-.uri forests. He did not think it w. uld be a good proposition . to <en .seivc the Kauri, forests. To Mr Jennings.— No sa,vmiller made wilful waste of timber. The t*nx»" ben. of the Dominion are suitable ♦cr building purposces. He thought a similar board that regulated the pice of machinery could fix the pure of tinber.

L'j Mr Mori is— The Americans h:\vv. very definite rules for RiadiJj.-. Mi John Jackson, secretary of the Whan Labourers' Union, aaced that D-io; to Christmas there were 150 iumv busily engaged i>» .))>& y-baih Sinct: then 88 men had reft, o'ving ty the shortage of the timber c<ror.sny. Most of the men were not making 1 £1 10s ;i week. To load a v<;s»el with 600,100 ft of timber it cost inlalour ,K 1.3(1, whereas to load the sjme vessel with coal only cost £10. J-Je arrountcd for the falling off 1.1 timber due 10 the importation of Oregon pine Mis men wished to see tho duty increased on Oregon, but also .'itens should be taken to pnvrjnt the springing up of rings or combines. The Sawmillcrs Employers A-.'ocia-tion proposed to reduce the vtge? nil round. This he did not think fair of Jthc sawmSjllcrs. They, had spoken of the .high wages paid, but kept the proposed reduced prices in the hack ground He was satistied tlie West Coast sawmilcrs wens »ol n-.pking large profits. He thought {Jie s)ccper-«-etter ,was as careful with the bush as a sawmill owner. There was a meeting of over thirty sleepergetters held at Nelson Creek and exception taken to some of the evidence given at the commission.' They had appointed a representative To attend the commission, and answer any questions. To Mr Morirs— He believed that the sawmillcrs 'would Jiavc to* reduce wage! or shut up under the present conditions, lie had no experience in sawmilling, but had worked as a sleep cr-getter. To Mr Hanan. — Pie did not know the quantity of exports of timber from the Dominion. The export from the West Coast was about 50 million a yenr. J f was only a year ago thai: the depression started. U kj miftrons oi •foreign Umber came into a market il must reduce the demand for local matter The slump in the building trade would also cause a shortage of orders. The cos,t J# building houses for the workers has gone up. He would not class a carpenter or a joinci as a sawmillcr. There is no rink existing on the West Coast. He would not favour an increase in the price of timber, unless the wages of thj men should be reduced. He would be prepared to see the workers of the colony jpaying a little more for their timber than closing down v jhe West Coast mills. The sawmillcrs ion the West jCoast )were not poor. They lived m good houses, dressed well, and looked fat. He thought the Government could control the price of timber. He State sawmills. xo Ai« jCißiiufa— H.s Union womci rciuse iv ioaa vesseis on holidays. io iva liaroei— iiiere is a umber toi)^iiia..on on me ooast, but he 01a iioi Uui.k they had any connection »mi the merchants in Wellington, •mo liurf- in Wellington if it exists Miuulcl i,o broken up. To Mr Ell— He believed -Uhe cost v timber on the Coast had been roducect. He did not • believe in the ceitilicate of discharge. Certain mills were Jet on tribute and they, paid full .waves. 60 that the millowncrs could. To Mr Arnold— There was a saw. millers Union in Southland, aftd they paid time and a half for overtime On the Coast for overtime they only paid the usual rate. TV cost of living on the Coast was dearer than elsewhere. In Southland the wages ranged from 8s to us Cd. Active steps were being taken on the Coast to form a union. To Mr Mander — He did not think the men should agree to a reduction in wages during the slump, If the millers could not carry on, they should hand them over to the men, -toUiiive a go. The wages ' on the Coasi were higher than any award made. Hq thought-, t-he Government coul'J compete in sawmilling. ' lo Mr Morris— He did not agree to the certificates of discharges. He did not know it was necessary under the Factory Act. The wages (according a return handed him by Mr Morris) paid to the men at the Land and Timber Company ranged from ut up to as high as 16s 6d. He did not say t'le sawmillers ought to be ashamed

of themselves for the wages they were pajintr, but what they intended to pay To the Chairman — He did- not think the sawmillers should attempt to reduce wages. Men would often leave the employment rather tfhan accept a !cwer wage. Mr A. Dalziel representing- the sleeper-getters at .Nelson Creek said he wished to deny the statement that the sleeper-getter ruined the bush. It. was not true that trees were cut down and only one length taken out. The sleeper-getter endeavoured to get as many sleepers >as possible. There was very, little;. chance of a fire, as the shrub.' was" used to make tracks. At the present time they had^6ooo sleeps to float down the . river?* He thought it wquld be unfair to alter the "present; conditions. ~. To Mr Jennings— They get 3s 3d for a sleeper, less 2s royalty. The Government charged royalty on condemned sleepers. The waste is in the rod and pine bush. To Mr ' Leyland— There has been no increase in the price of tsleepers. }(i Mr Clark— lf theTiunber warrants were interfered with it would be a great hardship. To Mr Ell — He was engaged for three months working in an area already, worked by sawmiUers. He 'took 600 sleeprs from an area of 40 acres. The Commission adjourned at one o'clock, and resumed at 2 o'clock". 'Mr.Wickes, secretary of the West Coast Trading .Qpmpany, gave the fol lowing evidence :r— , Edmund Alexander Wickesi secretary of the West Coast Timber Trading Company (Association):- — I have been connected^ "with the Export Timber Trade from the West Coasc . since its inception in 1896. There are at present forty-nine sawmills in this district, engaged almost exclusively in the export trade, and by the term "export trade," I mean dominon and elsewhere. Out -of fortyexported to other portion of the Dom'nion sawmills our Association hand the output of thirty-nine mil;s, and five others are asociated, and are work ing in unison with us, the remain ing five mills -doing their own business. It is estimated that these mills represent an erected cost of at least ;£i3siooo to the owners, and do not include those in the Westport district concerned in the. export of tJsnWy frcn that port. The- Company or Association was brcught into existence in order to avoid the keen competition in prices that was then obtaining-, and to overcome the cliaotic cond^ion into which the timber trade had drifted; it wa« found desirable that some organisation should be formed with a recognised head and executive far the more economic conduct of the business. The organisation has at rib time prejudicially affected the public of New Zealand, and it will be shown that it is impcsEcble for mills to work at lower prices than they have hitherto done, with a hope of any return for capital invested. The company does not attempt to make «ny profit, but is simply run as a central agency by the millers. The prices of red pine timber for ths past eight years -have been us follows, f.o.b Greymouth, Hofdti»a and Westport. ty^is .understood that the prices quoted [in all cases ars r«» the product of 'the log, in lengths not execeeding 22^ feet, and in sizes not exceeding i2r;by 3,12, and less 2I per cent discount, j ' : April 1, 1907, price was ... 7 May 20, kjoi, pjjqc was ... „. 7/6 Sep. 1, 1903, price w&j ..., ••• & Nov. -24, 1904 price was 7 From Ap. 1, '06 to June 30 'oG 6/6 July j, igo6 > price was ... ... y Am V, iv>ofc )»sce was tff, Aug. Ist. JQO7, prce war 8s Nov 23rd, 1908, dressing lines ...8/6 ■Nov 23, 1908 0.8. Scantling ... 6/9 Th: Association's export trade hgs grown from ,£12,735 in 1896 to £102,--460 in 1908. Of course this does not •include the value of timber sent awiy by millers doing their own shipping, and is only mentioned „,to show the present importance of this in-, dustry to the district. During me' year ending: March 31st 1906, the total quantify of timber carried over j the Westland section of the railways was 45,953,42ift, and this included all white and red pine sent to Australlia and elsewhere, )and also all skippers sent , coastwise. , For a Ike period ending IVlarch 31st, 1909, the total quantity carried was 43,271,390 feet showing a' decrease of 2,682,02$ feit and included- ail the items ..mentioned' aJjbve. "These fi^ures-> require further explanation and -are more unsatisfactory, than appears at first sight for during, the, latter period we shipp--5d some 15,000,000 ft of timber to Australia as against about 4,000,000 ft luring the year ending March, kjoS, io that without an Australian trade, he position -would have been very iciious indeed. This Australian trade s by no means satisfactory, either to he millers or to the dominion, inasnuch as it only absorbs the very :hoicest portion of our timber, ' and onsequenlly.it is necessary to desroy much of the log that should be onvcrtcd into a marketable commodty. While to a limited extent it is ossible that the present financial de-rc-ssio» may account foe some of the latkness of trade, it is mainly atibutable to the large importati6ns 0/ legon, especially as the serious fall--g off in trade ;is contemporaneous fth the large imports of Oregon hHi have- taken place since June «»• I can almost say that every s ot of Oregon imported displaces one c °t of red pine, as it comes into t! mpclition with hardly any, other b bw Zealand timber. To emphasise tc c seriousness of the position, and as C< owing the enormous shrinkage 'of m 2 Association's business since the ai wsnt of Oregon; the following com- aj tativc table demonstrates beyond <pl reasonable doubt that the slack--s in pur red pine trade is due al- gt •at entirely to Oregon importations fa 0 Wellington, Lyttelton and Tim- *

The decrease in revenue to the Government in royalties and railage for. timber exppfted from Greymouth o our markets within the Dominion for the. year. ended 31st March, 1909, as compared with the year ended March 31st. iqoq, exceeds eleven thousand pounds. Ag showing the impcrtance of the timOer industry to New Zealand the following figures are taken from the Official Year Book °f .1905, under the heading of Sawmills, Sash and Door Factories:— Number of sawmills ]''.'. .444 Hands employed grtt £«f»<.*H. , £834,927 rimper produced 330,470,030 ft. Total, value ._:..*, The figures are the last available. After going very carefuly into the )osition, and with a> fuliiknowle^;;* >f the timber ipdustry during the >ast fifteen years, .J^ saw without resrvation that there is only one remedy or the existing depression in the ed pine trade, and that is a substant-

ial increase of duly upon all Oregon and timbers of a like nature used for ordinary building purposes. Even in Australia, a country almost devoid of sbft /Ivoods suitable for building, a duty of 2s 6d per 100 ft is imposed on all sizes below 7 by 2J, and 2s on all sizes above this to 12 by 6. Unless some drastic alteration is at once made, the millers will be forced into the position or having to destroy at least 60 per cent of their building Jimber, and onlysupply such timber as is required for finishing work which Oregon cannot be used for. This will of course msan reduced labour, reduced railage revenue, and reduced royalties for the Government to coiled^ while the 60 per cent referred to must be left in the bush to rot or be burnt. You will please remember that the life of the timber trade in this district depends upon your decision, for the very ports that are most readily assailed by Oregon are our only markets, and this question also seriously affects 750 sawmill men and others engaged in the milling industry on this Coass who have over two thousand dependents. To Mr Morris— He acts as shipping agent and distributes orders. The present association does not control the prices as there are other sawmillers outside thej association. The outside mills supply a little less than the association rates. To Mr Hanan— He is willing Jo syt* mit his books. The association"" have representatives in Wellington and Christchuhchj, and they send orders, and the Greymputh office distribute them about the mills. I'fc.-.re. is no favouritism shown, and all anills are treated aT.ke. He did not think any mills could, show a working profit during the yfcar. The first serious falling off occurred in July 190.5. They were not working up to anything like full capacity about Christ-, mass* They stopped working the mills ten days before the Christmas holidays and agreed to open a month later" 'Ithan- usual. ' Nearly all the mills were now working 'on white pine, there being not sufficient red pine orders. He did not know the output of the timber of New Zea-

land. He was oniy interested in the industry as far as the West Coast was > concerned. He would aliovr aboul 25 per cent of the depression was due to the building slump, and 75 pei cent to the importation of Oregon. The best year the. timber industry had was Exhibition year »n 1006, and in 1907 it was good. The timber merchants did not object to Oregon coming, in so long as they made a profit off it. To Mr Jcnn : ngs— They supply while sale to the merchants. """ '- To Mr Field— Every foot of Oregon displaces a foot of red pine. He would be sorry to sec Oregon displacing Kauri. The merchants were afraid to put in stocks of Rimu becaucc of the importation of Oregon. He was sure Oregon was not coming in in large quantities before last ycfti*. He did not think the population basis a fair one to- consider. Oregon importations had not cheapI eiied the price of timber. Oregon docs not compete in the inland towns but- the markets o^ Christchurch, Dupcdin.. They had only refused to supply one man as they did not consider him a bona fide merchant. He did not want to keep anything back. The more the Commission looked into the state of the industry on the Coast they would find it in a deplorable condition. The rfawmillers' would be willing for the Government to arrange the maximum price. He saw no difficulty in the way of setting up] a board to .arrange prices, it was! not leasib)c to do whac Mr Jackson suggested to hand the mills ov-i er to the men. If The oivne'rs could 1 not sell the timber how could the! men? - / . t

To Mr Leyland — In two years tl timber output had decreased 50 p cent. He was certain that the in )orfaat:on of Oregon was due to tl iepiessioh in the,jimber industr The stringency of the money ma set was also a factor, but as sar a his district was concerneif not a sctf •us one. From February, 1908, t rtaich 3, 1909, eleven million fee •f Oregon had gone into ■ ■Wellingto: md Lyttelton.. He was told by irominent merchant who was using 1 lillion of Oregon timber, that h •ould not live in the house built o •region, because it was so liable U at.:h fire., He was sorry to hear 1 01 vent was built solely or* Ore •on. The West Coast mills coulc ot supply timber at the same rate, he order submitted to him by Mi eyland was ridiculous, "no red pine ill could cut such an order. He It sure Mr Leyland did not want ich an order. To Mr. Clark— During the time the c-il industry output has decreased million in Wellington, Lyttehv,^ maru, the Orego,, importations /c been about 13 million. There is great variety in orders received. In mstchurcli they wanted soft wooa, a in Wellington hard.' There were duons in the timber trade. If they t 16s for red pine the' coloay got 5 whole amount, but for 16s' of exon Ss went out a£ tfie colony io Me Bartar^Tfte Coast supplied >ut a- million feet for the exhibia- Next year their trade, kept at its •mal state. H e had been secretary the association since its inception. J. Association had no agreement J^the merchants, but an under"dins-, jto supply those -.who bercd_to -the Merchants' Associa- '• The nse in the price of timby the merchants was not due ■I«c sawmillcrs on the Coast. The •bina ion o f the sawmillers and chants was no d : ffercnfc tha . liedT T If a "liable firm Jed for umber they would be sup- ' ; M \f'-They don't wane Orcin VVelJington m Christclwirch • builchng, as re tl p i ne was suit . l*e statement Hhat Oregon reared for large bviUm e& was q not cocrect as -up to tie last two _« years not a spick of Oregon. was used ex & y&-M*B* -.ibuildings^ ._ in., Chrst-, 05 :^urchiH^r^ell : n gto n . They could J5 sujpp.ly r^d; pine 30ft ' af u St 6d f.o.b. 12.I 2 . pWi would not a supply a mevckknt- : e l ;Jl h es! Association. .There^yere ; J3 f^'P'^ l^ 6 tiie assoc-afcip^ ; v 'TJie i [3 $$?s^w!P n«t. -take tfee ' wiole pfco> * >3 bWP^dieUog; It was, the,.butlder. „ !I wiho went for the scft ■wooti^nofc. the 0 merchant. Sixty -per cent of" th^ log. j •9 remai,n^d (be.h|nd at present. Rebates . werc^^inscijajalble' fxonith* timber ' 10 trade,; It amounted 'to^about 2d A 13 hundred. Oregon .was an easy t'^m- a 12 ber (ss: the bjiiidpr.s jo .work', . . ' , c To Mr Stallwprtfiy^-The" merchants c of Chiristohujjch ""a^-e ''" not debarred } c fromibuy.ing,.r«d pine.^ro'ii ;V<sN^'b h Island. The "expenses' of ifce assoc- t n iafon are not out of 2* bet cent, g >> He^'wais a shareholder in a : sa\yu«?-»'. I' d He had 500 £1 'shares, arid would tl 11 5"e11,. -the lot to-morrow for £10. If c a board is appointed to fix the max- % °' imum prrce cf-tfenber a. sawmiller shot ] s uld be a representative on the board. §< k To .^;Mr Mander— Oregon pine if c r " allowed; to come New Zealand q wcoiW^ustvOUt the second class qual- fl 4 ity ofijKew Zealand. This would inf creasCifthe price ; on the ' superior >red- a , 7 pine. '$ America has ?^n)t3 but in' b :. New Zealand getting o?t'srs.. 0 To Mr Molris— We can't sell white ' '■' pine.in.New leZaland, and have never c been asked.,,; : , - , .„•-,- . Ol

The Hampstead , "tube" is the deepest subterranean railway in the world, being 251 ft below tf-ie'.' surface just norrti of Hampstead staiioff. ,

am : — i-si>? 1 907-HJQ& 1908-1909 April May June July August S 2P . October November December • 1,706,012 _ 2,327,643 2,764,126 2 ;37i,543 2,566,682 1,822,114 2,088,877 2 ;343,430 3,112,030 2,158,405 2,515,495 2,374,552 1,466,384 1,074,803 1,073,143 527,093 636,731 766,410 Jan. Feb. MarcL • 1908 1,429,620 2,116,459 2,475,722 27,184,294 1909 229,143 412,580 599,123 13,833,862