HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Grey River Argus, Volume XV, Issue 1889, 26 August 1874, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington, Aug. 25. On the motion that the House go into Committee upon the report of the Honorarium Committee, Mr Reid opposed, as he thought the general opinion was against the present allowance being increased. Mr Rolleston also opposed. In Committee, the essence of the report was that the Committee thought it undesirable to inciease the honorariums of the other branches of the Legislature, but that they should be subject to the same reductions as the other House, and that it was not necessary to disturb the allowances of the members of the Legislature residing within three miles of the Government buildings. These principles were embodied in Bix resolutions. The Premier proposed the first resolution— " That members of the Assembly residing more than three miles from the Assembly buildings should receive the actual fares by coach, railway, or steamboat, once each way, to and from their usual residence." Agreed to without discussion. Resolution 2— "That all allowances, except actual fares before mentioned, should be paid for on attendance during sitting days of session, and that a proportionate reduction be made for each sitting day, during which a. member is absent, provided that if during the session members are not absent more than three sitting days in all, no deduction be made. Mr Atkinson said the clause was most unfair. Members who came into the House, and then walked out immediately without doing any work, were treated the

same as members who displayed industry in the affairs of the country. The Premier said they had this difficulty — when they deducted a guinea per day for non-attendance they found that in a hundred days session, with seventy sitting days, the member who never attended obtained thirty guineas for neglecting the business of the country. The Speaker said that the great difficulty to contend with was to keep a record of members' attendance, and he thought the present usage was best. Mr J. C. Brown opposed the terms "allowances to members of Assembly," and objected entirely to members of the other branch being paid for attendance. They were all rich men, and could afford their services without remuneration. After a very great deal of discussion, and half a dozen different amendments, the clause was finally passed, after being amended so as to allow five daya absence to members, and in any deductions that five days be allowed. Clause 4 — That no deduction be made for tho absence of any member present in Wellington, but absent from the House through illness, was agreed to. •: Clause s—That5 — That no payment be made except upon the certificate of the Speakers of the Legislative Council or House of Representatives, was agreed to. The Premier then introduced a resolution for granting equal allowances to members of both branches of the legislature. That after this year the allowance of members of the Assembly be regulated by Act, but that during this year the allowance shall be 150 guineas to all members of the Assembly residing beyond three miles from the place of meeting of Assembly;, and one hundred guineas to all members of Assembly residing'within that distance. The Premier defended the principle of paying members of both branches, so as to relieve them ' of the charge of being mere representatives of wealth. Mr Johnstone opposed, on the ground that the House was not justified in paying with such large taxation looming in the distance. Mr Fox objected, solely because he regarded it in the light of payment ; and not from any fear that the country was precipitately running tornin, Mr Stafford did not think the honorarium should be increased. Mr M'Glashan supported the increase. Mr Ormond said the increase was not required, and would not be well received by the country ; the present allowance was quite sufficient for all legitimate expen, es. Mr Reader Wood opposed the increase; it was time enough to propose an increase when the House sat four or five months in the year. Mr J. E. Brown supported the increase; his experience was different to that of the hon. member for Parnell. Mr White said he always supported payment to members, and recognised the resolution as a step in that direction. Mr Fitzherbert said he believed greatly in payment of members as the best means of effectively filling the House, and also maintained that the other branch Legislature should be treated in common with the House ; he would support the proposal, although looking at in the light of a remuneration for the services rendered by hon. members, he considered it inadequate. Mr Tribe believed the country at large would concur in payment of members ; •he could point out many instances in the House where the honorarium left a positive loss. Mr Reid moved an amendment — "That the word fifty be struck out." Upon a division being taken, the amendment was negatived by 32 to 23. The resolution was then agreed to. On resolution 6 — ''That none of these provisions be applicable to the Speakers, Ministers, Chairman of Committees," being read, Mr Fox said, "if you are doing this upon the principle that persons already in receipt of public salaries should not receive honorarium, why not include Provincial servants, many of whom received very large salaries V Mr O'Conor and Mr Reid explained that most Provincial- officers had to pay persons to do their work in their absence* The resolution was agreed to, and the rule reported and adopted. The Excise Duties Bill was read a first time. Mr Murray and Mr J. L. Gillies recorded their protest against the Bill, as it tended to do away with Colonial industries for the mere purpose of increasing the revenue. The House adjourned at 5.30. Mr Fitzherbert moved his dissolution resolution in a short and temperate speech, the burden of which was that he regretted not having spoken during the previous debate, and asking the House to pause before giving effect to resolutions destroying the exisience of Local Government in the North Island, thus depriving the people of rights sanctioned under the Constitution Act without ascertaining the wish of the people, or indicating clearly what machinery was to replace that proposed to be swept away. He concluded by amending his resolution with the addition of the words, " and that the Bill or Bills to be prepared to give effect to the Abolition Resolutions be submitted to th c

House before the same be passed into law." The Premier replied in a replied in a long speech. During his speech he referred to the previous debate. He denied that the Parliament was not competent to deal with the most important question, even to affecting great orgahic changes, and he quoted a number of precedents from the actions of the English-Parlia-ment, from Pitt to Gladstone, to show that it was not necessary or usual to dissolve at the wish of a minority. He maintained that the arguments addticed against the resolutions had no weight. He commented at considerable length upon Mr Reeves speech. He said constituencies seldom gave a direct answer to issues set before them, no matter what jguestions you put, you would be answered by one that he wanted a road, and another wanted a heavy tax upon imported grain. He confessed he did not expect such a large majority in his favor. He noticed that of sixteen voting against, eleven held Provincial Executive offices. He admitted his sympathies had long been with Provincial Institutions, but the House would admit that he warned them in 1870 and 1872 that the Provinces which failed in .. their functions must make way for more suitable machinery. He only realised fully the obstructive disposition of Provinces when the reasonable proposals regarding land, in the Forest Bill, were so violently opposed.. He denied that he showed any desire to introduce the French beaureacratic system. Resident ministers had been employed in the Colony many years without any objection. He proposed to establish a substantial form of local Government, and give them local revenues, not elymosynary aid, and larger districts with spare land fund, to enable them to carry out large works, such as railways. They must distinctly understand the time was coming when they must look to find as security for loans for carrying out public works. They had recognised the necessity for making making laud fund for North Island. He thought as the island became populated the Colony would gladly lend its aid to acquire such lagd. Compact or no compact, they would adopt the same course supposing there had been no compact. He believed the House could not do better now than make one, and establish, local land revenue. He believed the people of the Colony would heartily endorse, the present policy } and that party which carried would be cemented stronger than ever. He concluded by moving as an amendment to insert the following, after striking out the principal portiou of Fitzherbert's motion :— " That Provincial Government in the North Island be, as soon as possible, followed by an inexpensive but more through form of Local Government under which the Island could be divided into districts and sub-districts, which shall be endowed with substantial revenues, and that residents therein be entitled to take larger control of affairs and expenditure than at present is the case." (Applause). Mr Stafford followed in a speech giving cordial support of the Premier's proposal as a step in the right direction. He had advocated the principle inside and outside of the House for years. He criticised the speech of Mr Fitzherbert unfavorbly. We were living under a system of Local Government found in no other British colony. This step was the beginning of the end. The country would go a great deal further, as the South soon would follow the example of the North. Some who voted against the resolutions did so because they did not go far enough. He could see the time coming when they would want the representative men of the country to do their best to carry the country through, and if they would not come forward and do their best, regardless of old party ties and prejudices, then God help the country. Mr Fitzherbert replied. Mr Fox made a long and able speech in favor of the Premier's amendment. He gave the whole history of Provincialism, to show that its functions had passed away since it ceased to be the real Colonising power of the coutry. He denounced its centralising tendency to the impoverishment of out districts as seen all over the North Island. Mr White asked where the substantial reveuue was to come from. Mr Johnston would vote for the amendment because of that expression. Mr Rolleston said the real issue which the people would make up their minds upon and demand to be satisfied, were redistribution of representation, incidence of taxation, and protest against present personal Government, and the voice of the people would not be as the Premier expected. The House divided upon the original motion, which waa lost by 45 to 19, the Premier's amendment was made the substantive motion on the voices. Mr Swanson proposed an addition to the resolution, compelling the Government to circulate the Bill two months before the meeting of Parliament. ' The Premier considered this an indignity. Mr Stafford supported the resolution. Division on amendmeot rejected by 40 to 21. Adjournment took place at 1.45 p.m.

M. X — ■— is so polite, that if he knocks a gainot a chair, he ever begs its pardon.