Licensing Bill Reform Provisions Welcomed By Both Sides Of House

Gisborne Herald, Volume LXXV, Issue 22808, 1 December 1948, Page 8

Licensing Bill Reform Provisions Welcomed By Both Sides Of House

(P.R.) WELLINGTON, Dec. 1. The proposals for the reorganisation of the liquor laws of New Zealand as expressed in the Licensing Amendment Bill produced a rare state of unanimity between the Government and the Opposition in the House of Representatives last night.

The Leader of the Opposition, Mr. S. G. Holland, applauded Parliament for its attempt to tackle the problem, and the acting Prime Minister, Mr. W. Nash, said that with the co-operation of the trade, the public and temperance people, the bill would bring about the best drinking conditions the Dominion had had.

Moving: the second reading, the Attorney-General, 3lr. H. G. It. Mason, said the subject always provoked conflict and, therefore, tended to surround itself ivitli difficulties not only for that reason but becaues of its importance. Reviewing earlier licensing legislation, the Minister said the habits of the people had improved and today drunkenness was not so general as when local option was provided for in the early ’nineties. He had been reproached for not having followed the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Licensing. He ventured to say that on a subject involving so many viewpoints on almost every element in it, nobody could be found to agree with every item in the report. Breweries Not To Be Taken Over The main item on which the bill differed from the report was on the question of taking over the breweries. The commission suggested that a special corporation should be set up for that purpose, but the bill did not do so. It might be said that a vote of the people was provided on other issues, so why not provide it regarding the breweries? He thought that members would agree that the sentiment of the people was unlikely to favour taking over the breweries, so the benefit gained by a poll would not be commensurate with the effort and expense involved.

some months later the Prime Ministei announced the Government's intention to set up a Royal Commission. Constitution of Commission

“I never did agree with the constitution of the commission,” said Mr Holland. "It was absurd to put representatives of the churches and the liquor trade on the commission and expect a satisfactory result. That has been proved by the fact that the commission presented majority and minority reports. A representative of the liquor trade should not be put in s position of sitting in judgment on his own case.

As first introduced, the bill contained the Government’s proposals The bill had been considered by a select committee of nine members—five from the Government and four from the Opposition. ‘‘As a result of their work we are considering a greatly improved bill,’’ he continued.

“I am saying in all sincerity that I welcome this bill because I have hoped that during my political life I would see Parliament tackle these great social problems which successive Governments and parties have run away from down the years.” He believed that the bill represented a big step forward. The occasion was not one on which they were seeking a party advantage and he believed that the bill made possible great improvements in the conduct of the liquor trade. Measure Overdue for 40 Years It was the first major step in the past 40 years to bring about greatly overdue reforms in the licensing laws. For 40 or more years the subject had been too hot for political parties or individuals to handle. Why? Because powerful vested interests had been able to threaten the use of votes against such a move. There could be no postponement of the bill. The establishment of the Licensing Control Commission was the real basis of the measure. There was a duty to strengthen the enforcement of the law. The importance of the choice of the commission, especially the chairman, could not be over-stressed. Discussing the redistribution of licenses. Mr. Holland said that there was room for real differences of opinion; but the fact that a license was once granted in a district it must remain there for-ever, did not make common sense.

There would be turmoil and disturbance over a discussion of the matter, which would be quite unwarranted, having regard to the slender chance of any positive result.

When he had complaints that the bill failed to include one of the most important recommendations of the commission it would be a fair answer to say that those who complained most about not following the report would be the first to object to a bill following the report in respect to other items.

The central feature of the bill, continued the Minister, was the constitution of a Central Licensing Control Commission. He believed that this would result in an improvement in conditions in the licensed trade, though in saying this he was not disposed to be thought of as saying that conditions were bad. On the contrary, having travelled all over the Dominion, he could testify to the good accommodation and treatment in hotels. To Make High Standards

However, there would be work for the commission whose central duty was to make high standards in the licensed trade and deal with exceptional cases. The commission could also perform the functions of a licensing committee. The need for this was due to the small interest taken in the election of these committees and the resultant absence of a guarantee that they would be active in fulfilling their functions. As an example, with 48,000 voters on the roll in Auckland only 2325, or one in 20, troubled to vote regarding the licensing committee, and the position was much the same elsewhere.

In granting licenses to tourist resorts the bill was merely making legal something which was happening unlawfully in the meantime. He welcomed the provisions regarding works canteens and also the granting of more power to licensing committees. Regarding clubs, the bill was putting what was a long-established custom on a new and proper basis. Increased Penalties A provision which would be welcomed would be that for increasing the penalties for after-hours drinking, said Mr. Holland. Mr. Nash, after referring to the provision for drinking by Maoris, said the Government as a Government took full responsibility for the bill. Because he had seen the effects of prohibition elsewhere—in the United States illicit drinking had become the most disintegrating influence under prohibition—he did not believe it would be helpful to New Zealand if prohibition were carried. He was certain, said Mr. Nash, that the abolition of liquor would lead to greater difficulties and that control under the bill was the better way. If his judgment were right, said Mr. Nash, 6 o'clock closing should be carried hand over fist. He would like to get rid. of the 5 to 6 rush, but fi o'clock closing was satisfactory to both no-license people and the trade and he hoped that it would be carried by 10 to one. Poll of Residents The hope that there would be provision for the residents of a given area to take a noil within a quarter of a mile radius of a given spot for the siting of a hotel was expressed by Mr Nash . If people within that radius said thev did not want -that hotel, then he would say that there should not be a hotel, but he did not know if a series of such areas should turn down the suggestiongestion to have a hotel Small areas that did not have a hotel should not be forced to have a hotel if they did not want a hotel, said Mr. Nash.

The commission was not concerned to make profits and the number of licenses it would issue would be only the number a locality required, so there was no need for alarm over possible extravagance.

People of a neighbourhood of a proposed site for a license could demand a poll to determine whether a license should be placed there. Some objection had been raised that a magistrate might not grant a poll when demanded, but to make no mistake it would be possible in the committee stage to change the word “may” to “shall.” Referring to the additional vote on trust control given in restoration polls in no-license areas, the Minister said trusts were still in an experimental stage in New Zealand, though the prospect of their success looked hopeful. People Must Decide Hours The Royal Commission had recommended a period of broken hours for hotels extending to 10 p.m. The bill provided for the people to decide on this issue.' There were always those who would say that Parliament should make the decision, but any fairminded, unbiased person would say that this was eminently a matter in which the people were entitled to express an opinion.

Facilities were provided for the people and it was for the people to decide. It was convenient that the poll should be held on the same day as the gaming poll, so that all the excitement would be over in one day and the expenditure kept to the minimum necessary.

'T want to assure the Church and temperance organisations that their representations have been given every consideration, even if they have not been adopted,” said Mr. T. C. Webb (Oppos. Rodney). Objections had been made because the bill violated a sacred pact in the King Country. Though he would favour a straight issue of prohibition or continuance, he would say that the last five polls had shown that the people of New Zealand did not want prohibition. He did not believe that all the credit was due to the Government and said that a tremendous amount of good work had been done by the Opposition.

Smoke concerts were such an established institution that the clause legalising them should be welcomed. Among the miscellaneous clauses were provisions for increased penalties for “sly-grogging” and other offences against the licensing law. “The licensing lav/ has to make provision for people’s habits that change from time to time. It is not a department of the law where we can get a great deal of help from overseas legislation, because the habits of the people in one country differ from those in another.

“I do not for the moment subscribe to the view that if v/e have the same law as overseas we will have the same habits in this country. Rather, do I think that the law tends to follow habits,” Mr. Mason concluded. Will Applaud Parliament

In his opinion, the people of the Dominion would applaud the present Parliament—and by that he did not mean either political party—because it was trying to find some method of tackling the problem, said the Leader of the Opposition. He believed that the overwhelming majority of sensible people would agree with this view.

Members were approaching the problem free from the threat of votes influencing them or, of the activities of pressure groups. Mr. Holland said he believed that the bill was a turning point in the laws which controlled the liquor trade. No one could think that it was the last word. Mr. Holland expressed the hope that future Parliaments would introduce legislation from time to time altering licensing laws as they would any other laws Mr. Holland said that in 1943 tc assist him in his approach to the problem he had talked with ardent prohibitionists and representatives of the licensed trade. Both sections had been willing to give him information and after considerable negotiations he was able to agree with both sides on a proposition that there should be a Royal Commission into every phase of the liquor trade. He publicly suggested the setting up of a commission when ne was speaking at a meeting in Auckland and