STILL LIVELY ISSUE

Gisborne Herald, Volume LXXIV, Issue 22439, 20 September 1947, Page 3

STILL LIVELY ISSUE

UPPER__HOUSE ABOLITION EFFORTS RULED OUT OF ORDER (P.R.) WELLINGTON, Sept. 20. The ruling given by the Chairman of Committees, Mr. C. Carr (Govt., Timaru) when the House of Representatives resumed yesterday afternoon that the discussion on the abolition of the Legislative Council was out of order because such a step would involve legislation, threw the House into a lively and good-humoured debate. Mr. Carr, who was ruling on an amendment moved by the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. S. G. Holland, that the vote in the Estimates for the Legislative Department be reduced by £1 as an indication that the counci, should be abolished, quoted a ruling n,, the Speaker Sir Charles Statham, which laid it down that matters involving legislation or policy could not be discussed in the debate on the Estimates. Mr F. Langstone (Govt., Roskill). asked whether there was any way in which members could defend themselves against statements made earlier in the day. Had Mr. Holland read Oliver Gulliver’s Travels? Mr, T. P. Shand (Oppos., Marlborough): Oliver Gulliver’s Twist. Voting Their Salaries

Mr. Holland: VVc are at the moment discussing the legislative vote. We are actually voting tneir salaries and is it to be ruled that vve can’t discuss a thing we are spending money on?

Mr. Carr reaitirmed his ruling. Mr. vV. A. Sheat tOppos., pa tea), did his best to get back to the question oi the Legislative Council without in--1 ringing the ruling, l’he building, he said, was in many respects overcrowded and the Government, as the nolder of the puolic purse, had a responsibility to luce up to tiie question. It should caretully scrutinise not only the salaries, but the whole expenses oi the Legislature.

"I am convinced that the time is long overdue when expenditure on the department should be reduced. 1 am equally satisfied that no member ot this House would say for one minute that vve should start on this chamber, and it is left to the public to judge just where the axe should be put in. 'I am not at liberty .to develop that side of my argument." said Mr. Sheat, "but 1 do think we should be quite trank about this." The House, he added, should carrv the amendment as an indication that in some way or other ex penditure should be reduced. Sailing Close to Wind

After Mr. Sheat had continued to develop his argument the Chairman of Committees interrupted an d said that the speaker was endeavouring to sail as close to the wind as he possibly could.

Mr A. C. Osborne (G0v.1,. Onehunga) Three sheets in th„ wind.

"I am doing my oest to tread the narrow path between right and wrong,” said Mr. Sheat. Mr F. W. Doidge lOppos,, Tauranga): Ot course, the honourable member is really trying to cut pensions. The Minister of Supply, Mr. A. H. Nordmeyer, said that a reduction ot the vote by LI could not by any stretch of the imagination be considered to affect the services of those who ran an efficient service in the Legislative Council. For instance, one clerk received £1)00 a year. Was it likely that he would resign if the amendment were carried and his salary were reduced to £899. Mr. W. Sullivan (Oppos., Bay of Plenty): Spread it over them all'. It was only by moving an amendment. he added that the whole sum of £3565 could be struck out, that the House could do anything to indicate its disapproval of paying money to keep the services of another place running. Mr. W. A. Bodkin (Oppos., Central Otago): It is the protest that counts.