GRAVE CHARGES

Evening Star, Issue 15909, 15 September 1915, Page 3

GRAVE CHARGES

- -' 'AGAINST RETURNED - ' ' - SOLDIERS. TALK OF COWARDICE. MINISTER DENIES ACCUSATION. NO COWARDS IN OUR ARMY. A STIR IN PARLIAMENT. [Fhom Our Pabxivmentart Repohter.] WELLINGTON", September 15. It iwas very obvious that there were fnixed feelings in the House of Representatives last night, when a member proceeded to ventilate -with almost • dramatic vehemence the sinister gossip as to the reasons why so-many of the soldiers who returned by the transport:/ Tahiti .1) ad not, as he put it, "smelt powder." He referred to hints at dreadful reasons, and when pressed to name them bluntly said that a large number of the men -who had not been beyond Egypt were accused of cowardice. For being chided for ventilating the accusation, he Teplied: "Surely to God it was only nght that the Minister should be given an oppcrtunitv to deny the charge and kill the dreadful rumors.'" The Hon. J. Allen promptly accepted the opportunity, and emphatically defended the returned soldiers, who, it may at once be confessed, Lave been subjected to free gosFiping criticism throughout Wellington. In the course of tho warm discussion it was alleged that certain officials had fed the gossip as to cowardice, or, as the phrase has run both in and out of Parliament, "cold feet." THE TAHITI HOLD-UP. ■\ The lively discussion was raised by Mr G. Witty (Riccaxton), who, on the motion to go into Committee of Supply on the Estimates, referred to the holding up ,of the Tahiti. He sought the reason why the vessel and the men who came with her were not at their destinations long aso. The_ boat was lying up, and some of the soldiers who should have gone south were wandering about the streets. Telegrams had come to him yesterday from the South asking why the men had not turned up. The Government may or may not be to blame, but they certainly knew there was trouble on the boat. *on the Monday •norning Ministers had told reporters that ;hey did r.ofc «.pect'the boat to get away, "it was likely the men would be j caving her. The men were right in leaving if they had come to their destination. The Prime Minister: Are you justifying them? a Mr Witty: I am not justifying them. Mr Massey: Yon are woTse than they were. Interruptions and angry interjections followed, and Mr Witty again retorted "I am not justifying them." He asked; " Has the Prime Minister ever worked in a stokehold and experienced the heat down there in the tropics?" Mr Massey" I know that no man is worthy of the rame who would leave the ship. (Hear, bear.) Mr Witty: " Why did not the Government step in and provide accommodation on the Maori for the southern men, if he had known on Saturday morning of the trouble? The Government should have bed in the positior. of sending on the men, or should have had another crew ready to take on the ship." It was true, he continued, the wcunded men were going south, that night by different boats, but who was going to pa.y their passages? Was the Defence Department going to bear the expense, the people of New Zealand, or tlie Union Company? Who was reaping the benefit? And the Minister of Defence that day had said in the House that he had not known the men had £4O each coming to them. In any case, was it right that the scJdiers should hare been left, wandering about the streets?. The n-en should have been properly cared for, ti'id sent on to their people. 'Was it the firemen of the Tahiti who were the cause of the trouble? That was what was reported in a morning newspaper on Mon- • day. Mr Witty read the article referred to. He also referred to the discomforts of the men who had to leave -the nursing conveniences of tho Tahiti. "He says I justify the men leaving the ship," continued Mr Witty. "It is nothing to do with me,, and nothing to do with, them." Mr Witty went on to say that a good deal of neglect was being shown as regards postal matter for the soldiers at the front, , because letters and parcels were not being received.- He added that the Brandon street office of the Defence Department was doing good work, and giving courteous and careful attention to inquirers. He wished the rest of the department would do the same. He again referred to the Tahiti incident. " I feel diffident about what I am going to speak of," declared Mr J.- T. M. Hornsby, dramatically, "because I feel very deeply and strongly. On Saturday last the Tahiti arrived hero with something over 400. Amongst those men there were those who had been thvough the' fire, broken and Mounded. Those men had come back wounded, and we were delighted to do them honor. But I understand that on that shiw there were a large number of man, -they say th.-j number runs i;.to hundreds, who bad never seen the firing line, who had never got beyond Egypt. Now! don't want to say a single word that would reflect on any man who wears the King's uniform, but I do want to say that I feel stirred to my very soul that the men who have fought and bled in battle should only get the same encouragement from the people of this country as those who have"never smelt powder except at a review. "\ He went on to ask if that was fair or decent. He did not know the reasons, but all sorts of things were being said. He wanted the Minister to realise that these • things were being said. An Hon. Member: "What is bein"said?" 3 Mr Hornsby: "All sorts of dreadful things about the men are being said." Members: " What are the dreadful things?" Mr Hornsby : " They are accused—in plain language, some of them are accused of cowardice; that is a dreadful charge." Hon. Mr Massey: "You should not say that." Mr Hornsby: "I am only saying what is being said. Surely to God if it is not true it ought to be denied from the highest place in the land. (Hear, hear.) It should be denied by the Minister, and I.am giving him the opportunity." It . would be a dreadful thing, he continued, if any young man should rest under any' imputation, and any possible imputation should be removed at once. He wanted the Minster to clear the matter up at once, so that no man would be unjustly accused. But the fact remained that for one reason or another these men who were being talked about had never passed Egypt, and had never been in the firing line. _ It was not fair, it was not decent", to give these men the same reception given to the men whose bodies had been broken in the service of their King and Country. (Hear, hear.) No doubt there was a good reason for those men not reaching the front, but he wanted the country to know it. (Hear, hear.) He did not want them to be going about the country and people thinking that they had not had the pluck to go into the fight. lb was for that reason only that he brought the matter np. REASONS FOR TAHITI'S DELAY. Mr James Allen (Minister of Defence) replied with a good deal of feeling to the statements made, mentioning at the outset thai he wanted to refer to the allegations at the earliest opportunity. He was very much obliged to the hon. member for Riccaxton for the deep interest he had taken in the soldiers of the Tahiti. If he had exercised his influence in a certain direction the men might have eons on by the Tahiti on Saturday night It was intended that they should get away,A Member: They could not get away anyhow. The Minister continued that he had tvery reason to believe that the Tahiti .* would ■ get away; because Mr Young, the

secretary of the union, was willing'to assist in getting the men to sign on'to take the ship to Port Chalmers. There was considerable interruption,' * under which tho Minister proceeding said that * i ung not succeed i n 'bis object, and he went on board the ship again at 12 o'clock. Before he (the Minister) came back from the ceremony in the Town Hall he met Mr Kennedy, the manager of the Union Steam Ship Company,- who informed him that the situation had taken on a better aspect; and that a considerable number of the men were willing to go on. He (Mr Allen) went away, and thought the ship would get away on Monday while he was in Christchurchy He had no reason to believe otherwise, and it was not until ear'y that morning before the ferry- boat arrived that he heard the Tahiti was not likely to get away that evening. Immediately he took steps for the men to .leave for the South by that night's steamers. With regard to the expenses, these would not be borne by the men but by the taxpayers. None'of the men would have to pay a halfpenny, and the hon. member (Mr Witty) would no doubt be delighted to put his hand in his pocket and pay out and assist in getting these men back to Christchurch. So far as he knew many of the firemen and deckhands wanted to go, and were willing to'sign on.' • —Soldier's Character Cleared.— Referring to the statement made by the member for Wairarapa, the Minister said he was extremely sorry that the question should have been raised in the House. It was not his (the Minister's) duty to draw any distinction between the men on the Tahiti who had. returned from the front and those who had not done so. He was not going to allow any man to hint that any of these' men Were cowards. Mr Hornsby : I did not hint at that. The Minister continued that the hon. member had brought the matter up publicly in the House, and it would afterwards be stated on the street that the men were .guilty of cowardice. Every newspaper would have it to-morrow. Mr Nosworthy at this stage made en interjection which drew from Mr Hornsby the retort that he had not hinted at cowardice on the part of the m->n. The member for Ashburton had interjected that he had made a statement that the men were cowards, and it would be made public all over New Zealand. Mr SpeakeT : I will ask the hon. members not to interject. Many of the interjections made are very undesirable. Mr Allen (warmly) :. " I want to repudiate, and repudiate in the strongest terms, the suggestion that any single man who has come back in the Tahiti, or any other man who has gone away, has been guilty of cowardice. _ I have never heard a whisper of cowardice. Certain of the men who came back were sick." He had received information, the Minister continued, that the number of such men was very considerable, and he was getting a return prepared to show how many had been to the front-and how many had not. Until that return was available he asked the public generally to suspend any talk of cowardice. Some of the men were suffering from pneumonia, and some from tubercular disease, contracted, no doubt, on the desert. To suggest that these men were guilty of cowardice was to him levolting, and he was sure it would be revolting to all sensible New Zealandere. —Cursing Their Bad Luck.— So far as he knew, they would be enly too eager to get to the front, and were cursing their bad luck in not being ar.le to do so. "I do hope," added Mr Allen, " that these idle remarks will be buried, and will not be brought into the light of public gaze unless there is some truth an the suggestions." A Member : They should be cleared np. Another Member: Certainly they should. The Minister added that owing to the crowded state of the hospitals in Egypt the Army Council had decided that" the best method of recovery would be for the men to come back to New Zealand, and he was thankful to say that many of them had recovered. He believed that a good many of the men would get to the front. As far as the hospitality extended to the men was_ concerned, he did not think that the public would want to discriminate between the sick and the wounded, and say to some of the men that they were not worthy of a public reception. PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS. , Mr Witty rose to say that the Prime Minister had interjected while the Minister of Defence was speaking that he (Mr Witty) had said the soldiers were paying their fares south. He had said nothing of the kind; he had only asked the Minister if the Defence Department was paying the fares. What- he wanted to know was : Were the Union Company giving the men a free passage or not, or was the Defence Department paying whilst the Tahiti was held up ? I Mr Hornsby also asked leave to say that_ he had been misrepresented by the Minister. He wanted to nail this down deliberately. " The Minister," he said. "has more than hinted; he has, indeed! accused me." Mr J. S. Dickson (Parnell) : " Quite right.'' .Mr Hornsby (turning round to the member) : "What is that? You dare to say that to me outside the House." The Speaker called for order. | Mr Hornsby: "This man said some- | thing to me for which he deserves punish- | menfc." He added that he would deal ■ with it later, and continued that the Minister had suggested he had said that some of the men were cowards. That was contrary to fact. He had said that the statements were in the streets of Wellington, and that some of the defence officers were making the statements themselves. He said deliberately, God forbid that he should accuse any man who wore the King's uniform of being a coward. He only wanted to give the Minister a chance to clear the matter up, and it was not cleared up yet. NO SHIRKERS AT ALL. Mr J. Payne pointed out that Mr Hornsby had only desired to bring the matter before the House so that it might be cleared up. A Member: "It is a peculiar way of doing it." Mr Payne: It is not a peculiar wav *ou keep your face shut, and I will have a chance of going on with my speech. (Laughter.) He continued that a rumor had been afloat about the soldiers, and it was due to some member of the Chamber to have the courage to bring the matter rvuf the House and have it cleared up. Iho Minister should have stated facts, and given the rumors a denial, instead of making a clap-trap and high-falutin' speech. He hoped no other- motive would be attributed to the member for Wairarapa than that of a desire to have the matter cleared up satisfactorily to the men themselves. He did not think there were any shirkers in New Zealand, and no man should allow the term to be attached to any New Zealander. , OTHER OPINIONS. _ Mr A. Glover deprecated anv differentiation between the men who have wounds and those who have not. Mr P. C. Webb said he had seen some of the men who had been returned, and they were all anxious to go back'if their health had admitted it. The men had said themselves that not one of them alleged cowardice against those who came ashore. .Mr C. H. Poole said that the delay in the Tahiti's departure was a regrettable matter, but he would point out that as far as the commercial aspect was concerned the contract of the men expired when they reached Wellington. As yet it was not known what their grievances were. They had heard the Minister say that the secretary had done all in his power to get the men to sign the articles The Hon. Mr Allen: "So I was informed." Mr Poole: " I am prepared to accept that statement as being true." He then asked the Minister if he would deny that the Tahiti was not ready to sail on Saturday night because the departmental officials had not finished their work of compiling the records. The Hon. Mr Allen: "As far as I know, there was no other reason why the ship n ot have got away on Saturday nights I 'i'he discussion then terminated.