DUNEDIN PRESBYTERY.

Evening Star, Issue 14574, 24 May 1911, Page 8

DUNEDIN PRESBYTERY.

DISAPPROVES D K X (TMIX AT IO X AI; CORPS. Yesterday the Dunedin Presbyter; nehl .a special meeting at First Chute! buildings to receive their Committees re port <r* «ei]itory training of cadets aiu the Presbytery’s tehiiion thereto, and t< consider the question of nominating mill tarv chap Sen.-. There was au attcndanci of about forty member#, the modera-toi (Kev. J. Lymbuni) presiding. Rev. D. Dutton, convener of the Com mitlee mentioned, reviewed the circiun > lances leading to the mooting, beginning with tho Presbytery's decision of .May 4ti to divide the congregations in the _Presbytery of Dunedin into six groups, it beinj. left to the senior minister of each grorq to convene, a meeting and place details proposals before that meeting, and send representatives to the Committee report. Kev. A. Cameron, senior minister of the Anderson Kay group, had written him saying that he understood feeling in the Kay Session to condemn denominational carps, but he refused to act as requested as convener or the group. Me would, however, attend the Committee meeting oit 15th hist, and report that he had done nothing. Ur Vt added had written that he wholly disapproved of the Church having anything to do wiltt lie formation of cadet corps, and he wonlii take no y-art in the organisation •-ncgiwied liy the Committee, but he was utiling to io-opcnite in securing tho moral wertate of tho youth. The St. Andrews Session were sub.-tin'iiallv o> toe same opinion, and had passed ‘ a resolution saying so, but recognising tire neces-ity t'f giving the vouth of the Dominion sufficient- inilitaiy training to adequately provide for its defence. Mr Dutton went on to say that_Alr Cameron attended ihe committee meeting, ami his piotest wc read at the beginning to* the preceedings. Mr t ameion hud questioned the Presbytery s action in tippaintinn the Committee. I here had been u good deal of debate ruul a httle personal reeling over. Mr Cameron's mutioip to stop the whole of the proceedings, seeing that he had refused to carry out his duties iu ■ mnovtiwi with it. on which groand he :Mr Dutton) contended that Mr Canreiou bad no status. As rim Committee aetomptished nothing at tin- tneciwr. they f-e- ---. Med to call a meeting of the Presbytery, Ibis being made a matter of_ urgency, b-cause nominations m c.-wb-i ofneets weio to close by 50lh inst Rev. Mr Dutton's icport on ! "h. 1 rot the Committee was received. Rev. A. Cameron said he was sorry to I. - dragged into the matter, but th» re--•■.ir.viliilTlv lav with the hist, meeting of Mi-.- Presbytery. He Tit that iv had not b-.- n i'nirlv tre-iitasl in tar t ommittce. j|,. disavowed being i*-t-u:ited by personal '''cling, and slight sted that as the matter >,as purely personal the dismission slemld v taken in private. This course, however, w.g- pnismyi, ,;Mr Cameron ('.nrinneff tint la-to in tho meeting of the Presbytery it was announced that nothing but formal btusiness remained to be transac-tcd. and he left lha mel ting to keep a private engagement-. Tiiis proposal to iorm denomi national co.-ps was a mutter on which it wtu.- known ‘here was a difference of opinion in the. '.vimd. and it was not customary to coniime discussion on sneh questions from me Synod meeting to another v.iinoitt wtiee'being given. Yet this was done. ,r.d the. Synod set up a (-ommittce and rave it power to act. He had also a nievanee against the Committee, lie had i right to be present at the meeting of ■ he Committee to prot. st against- what v.a.s i icing done. ; (lev. Mr Duuon : Anyone has a light to ' n-otest. but bad Mr Cameron a right to ! ■ cm- along and stop the, meeting? j Itev. Mr Cameron continued that lie had I bei-n summoned to the meeting, and bad : i right to be there. Ho added that there 1 were other present at the meeting who j had no right to he there, yet were permitted to bo there. Ho asked where the -rssione of tuny church had received the* j lower to appoint tiny numbers of this I . ommittce. He had been ejected from the ! ncating. yet Kev. Mr Kilpatrick and Ids - dders were allowed to remain, ami took j u very active part in the jiH-e-ting. i Tguaghtar.) Kev. Air Kilpatrick : First < 'inri-.-h : 3t-.ip]c were there, ah-o. Kev. .Mr Ciunei-on continued that he did tut intend to contimi*’ further with Ids nrofccst, which ho themip.ou withdrew, isiying it woiilcl be a sh-nne to shelve such 1 a mat-tor iu that way. Kev. Mr Dutton then tabled the rom- ; nnmicatims receivod from tim various ■ churches. He said they had received j n.riie information, but nothing of sufficient , .ahie to act upon. ! Th» meeting decided to discuts the prin- i nple of the Church's alt.'Mil' in this mutter. Ilev. A. Cameron moved the; tic- Pivplytery disapprove of the lumi.-ition of detoniinutionai companies, and are of opinion j hat the churches as such should take no urt in the formation of such companies. . t had been said that the Church should .-afe-uard _ tho interests of the young seople, and should see that worthy o'tßceis 1 .vero appointed. Thar was a. weak argument. The State felt- itself quite competent to select men and women of such high character that children could safely , be entrusted to their care for five hours a ■ day. five days a week! The Slate also ‘ tlmught itself quite competent to appoint ! officers for the Territorials. He was afraid ' that tho State was wanting the help vf Mie Churches not so much because they were , seriously concerned iu the moral welfare , n the cadets, but because the State was ! iiraid that without the help m t h-' ; .’horches it would not he able t., make the i novement a .success.—illc-ar. in.a.y Thev ! sere being befooled when they were .asked j /' believe that it was the well-being nf tho j fit dots that was act n a ting the Stale. If I that were so. why did the State ch.-nv the I Churches the right f<> nominate officers I unless they raised i*ie companies? The 1 Roman Catholic Kishop of Auckland was 1 iow advocating that th.- Territorials he i Drifted into denominationtd regiments. \ Was all this going- to lead to tiie peace i and happiness of the rornnninitv f—(A i member: ” Yes." and dissent.) The Church i tint embarked on a scheme to help to form ■ these distinctively military fortes was untrue to its tru.=t. The Church was a divine institution for a divine purpose, mid one of its objects was the brotherhood if man. A Member : And patriotism. Mr Cameron .- And patriotism Lrmpatriotism; not jingoism. The niovt-nn-.it was calculated to foster the war spirit. Major-general Dudley had said he had no ! intention to promote a war spirit, hut it j did not matter what hi- intention was, ; he could not prevent the war spirit being engendered. The association of Hie Church ; with the movement would make the : Church the handmaid of those who fostered the war spirit. Against whom were ' we to defend our country; He thought ! New Zealand’s worst enemy was within > id- own shores. fie went on to a.-.k how I New Zealand was to defend herself if an ! tcemy came. ; Kev. Mr Dutton ; Take it lying down. .Mr Cameron went on to say that the Church’s business was to endeavor to win ather nations to the principles of brothcrjood. A Member : Part of it. ; .Mr Cameron; The whole of it. He in- I treated that if his motion were carried tho I protest should be forwarded to the Minis- ■ ter of Defence. Captain M’Callum .seconded this. Rev. D. Dutton explained that person- j illy he was strongly in favor of Air Camwon’s f-otion, but thought that t-be rounds gyi which ho supported it were litterly fallacious. Rev. White, having ascertained that Air Cameron was in favor of the appointment of military chaplains, went on to »ay that AD Cameron’s attitude was full Df contradictions. Mr White quoted from the Confession of Faith of the Presbyterian Church to show that the Church was not the opponent of the State in the use ot the sword, but rather the handmaid, the help, the support, comfort, and strength of the State is all «ach matters as made for the defence of the people. Ho reminded Air Omeron of the behaviour of the Cameronians -at Dunkeld, where, unskilled in arms, hat with, their BiUcs JJwnij. JOjfy,

j broke tho bade of the opposition to Kin? { '.Villiam, and secured the exercise of civil 1 Mid religions liberty, which we enjoyed ; to-day.—(Hear, hear.) Most. Presbyterian- ! were proud of tho part their ancestors had i played in war. His own grandfather hail | been at the front in 1815. It seemed t< | him that. Mr Cameron's speech was out. oi j order for a Presbyterian minister. Tin ! Stale had deliberately asked for help ii j tho oversight of these lads, 'lire StateV | attitude was not inconsistent, ft had not j been the custom of tho Stale to take any I thing that had to da with religion into the primary schools (though this did not apply I to the secondary schools), and lie thought ; the State would only maintain this utti- ■ tudo until tho opinion of the Dominion changed. Ho believed that the opinion of the Dominion was now undergoing a change, which set in at the time of the Door War. Ho thought, also, that Mr Cameron was somewhat behind the fail. ; Alternative courses were oik-ii to Mr GameI rou. Ho could either go in for pas-uv! 1 ; resistance to the law, or lie could become i active in endeavoring to have the law ieI pealed. He (tho speaker) believed that the I law would remain in existence, l.et the Church act up to her vaunted ami magniti- ! cent traditions, as those who served 15ml and honored the king.—(Hear, hern.; Me ; moved—" That the Presbytery, having ie | reived from the (lovcMinient through the : military authorities an appeal to eo-npei ate with them in national defence, anil particularly in the formation of senior cadet corps, and remembering the c.reisl of the Presbyterian Church a- expressed in '.he Confession of Faith, reg.iiding t ho duty of the Church to suppor. ibe civ i i magistrate even in l!u- ]-ower of l lie sward and ! the waging of war, agree to recommend I the request of the Government to the sessions within the bounds of the ihcebyU iy. iliac alone or in combinaiion they may form senior cade: .nips, in which the. lad.' will be under Presbyterian oUieer>. and ie. e-.-ivc moral and 'eligious Inst; act ion ac cording to t!ie principle.-- of our Ciiiiuai.'' llcv. Gray Dixon rcvoli.b.! I his amendmeal. Of ad churilns in t ir -I"iidoni tiePresbyterian was lie- 1 1 ue lighting rhino!:. liev. A. Kinmout pointed ora linn tin■.corps were id ready being forme I. ami adnit the Church had virtu,illy to decide was whether liny would nominate otlieer.ter those noPa/.mis wen- unanimous in s-aying that they would feel very much easier if th-ey kne-a trial their bays otic I under Hie cate id men selected by ihe Church.—(Heal. hj. M.) It- seeitied to liim I there was one Ju.'alamentd error in Mr Cameron's attitude, and tliat was that pm pa rat ion mount war. (.Her and over agam weakness had incited to war,—-Hear, hear.) How often would Franco since Sedan have been at the throat of Germany if France 1 had only been strong enough. One of the ( great needs of the Dominion was cliseip- ; lino in its youth. (Hear, heard : Kev. Air Kilpatrick said hie lirst objec- . tion was i., the dcnoiniuatiunal corps. .Tlumovement v.a.. tre.iU'd by one Chun hj. ai d bo objected u> the other Churches lacing dragged a’ Civ wheel,- ~f nnv Church, wliiie at Lire sati.c - .. ■ .-.ng iiis patriotism and loyalty. In tho next few veins the military authorities would experience 1 the utmost' trouble over thi-, matter, which had been introduced in consequence of clamor raised iu a certain quarter he - could name but would not. 1 Hcv. 11. F. Davies said liie < idel ditli- ; cully in connection with the Church »..r« s ! v.aus that so very few boys indeed would be available, as tin- majoritv of their hovs between fourteen years a.r;d eighteen yens we.ro already members of their school corps. Ho thought it would be fat be!lop t" advocate district t-iqs. and »,;e to it that Pier by- • terkin chaplains wane appointed, and Hint these chaplains had tree opportunity to minister to the spiiituul ne-oN of the ' cadets. Uu the division eighteen m-uibcis voted for Mr Cameron's morion, a- d nix tor Mr White's amendment. id - motion was tberefote tried. >.*vt*ral ' membvie registering their dis.-enl. The carrying of Mr Canieiou'.- p:opesai to lorwatd ins lesnlut ii-a to the .M i.:istcr of Dolence evoked a strong protest from Mr Kirtmont and others. who%aid that unless subsequent proceedings as to the appoint- i ‘ ment of chaplains accompanied tho icsolii- J tion it wonhl convey tho idea :!iat the 1 Preaartery washed :t,. rands of ttic whole ; th'rg. which was Hot by a:;v in-'a.n.s the ■ Mr Cameron said ho had no ohje, lion to ■ lie- resolution being supplemented by a resolution covering subsequent proceedings, "ii Rev. Mr Kinmonts .motion it was,, decided “ That the Presbytery further re- ; solve tmit they will do all in their power, by non;mating military chaplains and otherwise, to further ih-> moral and religious interests of the cadets.'-' an amendment by Mr ( itmeror; to delete the words 1 "and otherwise" being lest. It was deeid-d I--, forward the above re- ; '■ solution also to the Dcfeia e Minister. ; It was further resolved to recommend 1 1 Dev. 1). Hutton for appointment as senior I ' ( h'lplain. and that ‘the Committee of | • wfilch he is convener should continue in ! 1 ofh-e, and to rons-ider the nomination of I < eiiapiains and report thereon to the Pres- 1 < bytery. • j