MR PINKERTON AT THE CITY HALL.

Evening Star, Issue 9123, 2 May 1893, Page 1

MR PINKERTON AT THE CITY HALL.

At the City Hall last night Mr David Pinkerton, senior member for Dunedin in the House of Representatives, addressed a meeting of his constituents. The hall was filled in all parts, and throughout the meeting a number had to be content with otxuidlug i'uuiu. Amongst tlie audience there were about forty ladies. Mr Alex. Judge, who occupied the chair, said he was confident the meeting would agree with him that Mr Pinkerton had endeavored to do his best in the interests of the colon}' as a whole and in the interests of liis constituents in particular. —(Applause.) He thought that every man who stood on a public platform, no matter who he might be, no matter who he was addressing, and no matter on what subject he might be speaking, should be given a fair hearing—(applause)—and this was all the more necessary in the case of a political speaker, because at the close of his address an opportunity was afforded the audience to ask any questions they desired. Before resuming his scat the chairman referred to the lamented death of the Hon. Mr Ballance, and in connection with the sad event he moved—"That this meeting, being the first held in Dunedin since the lamentable death of the Premier of the colony, desire to pass a vote of condolence to Mrs Ballance, and record the highest appreciation of the distinguished, loyal, and self-denying services rendered by the late honorable gentleman; that the audience rise in silence to pass this motion ; and that the chairman be requested to send a copy of the resolution to the widow of the late Premier.''

The resolution was unanimously carried as suggested, all present standing in solemn silence.

The Chairman thanked the audience for their concurrence in the resolution, and

then called upon the speaker to address the meeting. Mr PiNKERTOX, who was very warmly received, said it was appropriate that he should open his address by making short reference to the late Premier. He had known Mr Ballancc for a few years, hut intimately for only two years, and lie could say that the more one knew of him the better one liked him. His ability and his nobleness of character showed forth with

increased vigor every time one met him, and his death was an event to be much

deplored, especially at this particular time, Another thing that could be said of him was that in adversity he was patient, and in prosperity never overbearing or tyrannical (Applause.) It was somewhat pleasing to hear politicians holding different views so warmly eulogising the late Premier, and he would just like to add a word, and that was that, as was said by Mr Scobie Mackenzie the other night, there was a comradeship in the House of Parliament, and menir bers, although speaking sharply to one another and about one another, never carried enmity in their remarks. That referred to all good men and true, and men of this stamp were in the majority by far in the House. Again referring to the late Mr Ballance, the speaker said that too soon, much too soon, had passed away one of the ablest, the best, and the kindest of men. His death was a national calamity, being one, as he was, of the grandest specimens of Nature's nobility.— (Loud applause.) Mr Pinkerton next explained why he had not earlier addressed his constituents. When he came back from Parliament there was in progress a mayoral contest into which a political tinge had been introduced, and he did not think it wise to hold a meeting at that juncture, so that it might not be said he was giving color to either one side or the other in that contest. Then the holidays came on, and after they had passed bethought it best to postpone his address until nearer the meetingof Parliament. Then he fixed his meeting for the previous Monday night, but on learning that the householders' meetings for the election of school committees were to be held on that, night he postponed it for a week, and even after that lie was inclined to further postpone it, because had he done so, it would have allowed him to go northwards to pay the last tribute of respect to the memory of a much-esteemed gentleman. Referring to questions political, the speaker said that they had been told that the prosperity of the colony was not due to the Government's action, but he would ask this : Supposing the country had not been prosperous, what would have been said by tiiose persons who told them now that the Government's measures had nothing to do with the pros-

perity ? He would leave them to answer the'question for themselves, Next referring to some of the principal measures passed last session, he said the Land Bill was the first in importance, because just in proportion to the success of laiul legislation—or in a great measure, at any rale—would the success of the colony rest. If there were not producers on the soil they must go hack. .Three of the most important feature!- in it were the systems of purchase, of which the optional 'system was the principal. The whole object of the Hill was to encourage settlement, to place people on the land who would work it, and through working it would cause to grow up, in am? around the settlement, a prosperous community of all kinds of trades and occupations. He would first refer to the cash purchase provision, which had been the longest in existence. It was an old provision revived, and it required that on every acre of first-class land t'l must be expended within seven years before a Crown grant was issued. If this provision were faithfully and well earned out it would go far to encourage settlement. The next provision was that referring to occupation with the right to purchase. This took the place of the old deferred-payment system. It idso provided that occupation, or residence on fhe land, should be a condition of taking up land, and that certain improvements should be made within a given number of years. After a given number of years the occupant of the land might become the freeholder of it by purchasing at the cash price which was fixed at the time of his taking up the land. The next system was the lease in perpetuity —or "the eternal lease," as some were pleased to call it. There was a great difference of opinion' about that, and it became a question in Parliament of either introducing the lease in perpetuity or giving the purchaser the right to purchase. The Government introduced the Bill at first with the lease as it was now, with periodical valuations, but ultimately gave way to the pressure of their country friends, and accepted the lease in perpetuity. That provided that on the purchase price of the land 4 per cent, should be paid for 909 years. The town members, himself among the number, "ather opposed the provision, as they fWeht the laud was being given away too JLmiv ttlld that P erio{Tical valuations should be" held, so that, as the land rose in value the occupant should be called on L pay more for it. However, tliey were Imt-nurobered on the point. He however, did not now think that the Kin perpetuity was so bad as it at first appeared to him» for tins reason, that

set (lenient of the land was really theirobjeet. ■-(Hear. hear.) That was what they were all striving for; and the lease in perpetuity would be the means of inducing settlement to a very much larger extent than any of the other systems of land tenuru to which he had referred. Although they might regret that the country did not reap some benefit from the rise iu" value of the land, it would be - found that it would cause a prosperous community to rise up.—(Applause.) Sir John Hall said that the lease iu perpetuity would soon become a freehold, because pressure would be brought to bear upon the Government to make it a freehold. He (Mr Pinkcrton) contended that that was absurd, as if a man took up land with t'loo, and in a few years, by increase of population, it rose in value to t'lfoo, it was not likely that he would want Ins lease converted into a freehold to save t'l a year. He thought that those who got land on those terms would have a cheaper bargain than on any oilier conditions. Therefore he had no doubt that the lease in perpetuity would become a good thing for the settlers of the country ultimately.— (Applause.) Then the Land for Settlement lull provided for securing land iu suitable localities for small settlement, and it gave I lie Government power to purchase large areas of land. This would prove of great benefit to such tonus as Christchurch and other ton us surrounded by large estates. That Rill was introduced twelve months ago and passed the House of Representatives, but the Legislative Council threw it out. One of Die reasiiiin f.-,i- this waslhal it was proposed to take land under the Public "Works Act. and at its proper valuation ; and it was thought iu the Council that if the Government' took a man's laud they should take it nl his price, and not at a valuation. Therefore, the Rill was thrown out. Very closely allied with the Land for Settlement Rill was the Dairy Industries Rill, which was passed to regulate the sanitary conditions of dairies and other things in the country. (Hear, hear.) He thought that some'legislation should be brought forward to go a good deal further than that. The dairy industry nas .me of the most important iu the country ; and he thought that the Government should endeavor, as far as possible, to get the carrying conditions in the ships made as favorable as it could be made for dairy produce. The)' should also endeavor to ;■.•( cooling chambers erected in London or at whatever port our dairy produce arrived, ro as to have it stored until a suitable market could be found for it. Some pre- . lutioiis ought to be taken to see that the produce of t lie colonies was sold for what it really was, and not allow our best butter to b'sold f..r S.oteh or Irish, while some rubbish was sold for New Zealand butter. If that were done it would not cost the Government very much, and it would bean enormous advantage to the people of this colony. He would take tlie first opportunity of bringing these matters be fere the .Minister for Agriculture. (Applause.) The Land and Income Assessment Rill was for the purpose of remedying certain anomalies, but they were told that even now the Rill was unfair iu its incidence. Well, he did not suppose there ever was a tax that could not in some way be shown to be slightly unfair, bit! though perfection had not been reached by the present system, they had done' the best they could to make it pet feet. Comparisons were frequently made to show that the taxation was unjust and oppressive, and the comparisons Mere almost invariably as between money placed in the bank and on money invested ui land. It was said that if f'l,ooo was placed in the bank it escaped taxation, but nas taxed if it was invested in laud. Now, iu the liisl place, the probability was that it a m.in went on land with IT,00!I not more ■ !iin half that sum would be paid for the land itself, and the other half would be spent on stock and improvements ; the result being that tin- amount escaped taxation. Then, the man who invested in land did so in the reasonable hope that it would rise iu value, and it was the increased value that ultimately paid tin- tax. Xo such increase was to be looked for in money placed iu a bank. Rut there was another way of looking at it. If money were placed at interest in a bank, the batik used it, and on the profit from its use the bank had to pay taxation, but if it was invested for speculative purposes in laud, without the taxation which was objected to as unfair, it would escape taxation altogether, and such .-■. peculation would .-.tand iu the way of :-cttlcmenl. Mr Sc.d.ie Mackenzie had' told the electors that the policy of the Government was one of imposture. To prove this be a-.scried that the Government had said they intended to break up the large estates, ;'ii.i that having failed to do that they were convicted of imposture. Xow, so far as he knew the facts of the case, and he knew .-■oiiielhing of them, the Government had never said anything of the kind. What the <;.>\cnimcnt had said was that the burden of taxation should be removed from the shoulders of the struggling country settlers and placed on the huge landowner and land nopnlist that the taxations should be placed on those most able to bear it, and relief all'orded to the struggling country •.settlers, who were already sutlicieiitly handicapped, lie would now ask whether in tlit; fulfilment of that promise they had not been eminently successful? Had not the struggling settler been released to a great extent from the former burden of taxation? And had not the large laud monopolists to pay a good deal more ? Was not this the cause of their growling ?-(I [ear, bear; "They have to," and applause.) The statement referred to had been made .cry largely for the purpose of setting the country against the towns. It was an attempt to persuade the farmers that they were unfairly and harshly treated, and that the people, of the towns were getting the benefit, and Would soon put the screw on a little more lightly. The same thing had previously been asserted, and it was then prophesied that the new taxation would not produce the amount estimated, and that consequently the exemptions would have to be reduced. As a matter of fact, the taxation produced more than the estimate (applause) but it was still said they would fall back on the small settlers. Nothing o! th" kind would happen, but the small settlers Would see that it was to their advantage to work with the people of the towns for 'he benefit of both. The Government had never said they were going to break up the large estates, but they had expressed a desire to prevent the accumulation of large estates - a very different thing from bursting them up. He took it that the persons who (old the stories he had repeated for the purpose of setting the country against the town were the enemies of both.--(Applause.) The speaker then referred to the Klcctoral Rill and to the amendments made in it by the Council, widening the definitions of '•commercial travellers" and "shearers," and introducing •"harvesters" and women as persons to whom electoral rights could be granted. His opinion was that the altertiMous had been made by the Legislative Council for the express purpose of defeating the women's franchise or destroying the .system of ballot ; and he considered the < 'ouiicil entirely responsible for the loss of the franchise. It seemed to him strange that many of those who blamed the Government for not passing the Rill as amended by the Council were members who were strongly opposed to extending the electoral franchise to women. One of the Rills about which a good deal had been said, and about which a good deal would be said, was the Industrial Conciliation Arbitration Bill. The workers were all interested in that. It was passed through the. House of Representatives, but thrown out by the Legislative Council. At a conference between the managers, it was agreed that this was fair; that compulsory arbitration should be a feature of the Rill, on condition that conciliation boards should send matter to the arbitration court, and that neither of the parties interested should themselves in the first instance have power to do that. That the Minister of Labor was willing to accede to, and heurgedthaUhcCouneilshould

pass the Rill, but they pleaded want of time. A great deal had been said about that Hill. It had been called tyrannical, and it was .sai.l that it did not provide for arbitration, but compulsion. If, however, be understood the object of the Uill, it was this: When the workers in any particular industry had just reason to believe that a certain profit could be made out of that industry they should not be compelled to 'Work for starvation wages, but shvuld refer

the matter of wages to the court, who would deal fairly between the workman and the employer. He admitted at once that there might be some little diflioulty in enfoceiiig the awards. That wus a matter for further consideration ; but that compulsory arbitration should be part and parcel of an Arbitration Bill went without saying, otherwise it was practically worthless. The object of the Bill was to protect the weak man against the strong, and nothing mure.—-(Applause.) The Shop Assistants Dill would have to come before the House again in some way or other. If the halfholiday was made compulsory during the week it must obtain within proclaimed districts extending over a wider area than the towns. If some system could be brought about, without injury to anybody, so that each district would be compelled to take a holiduy on the same day, there would be much less friction than there was over the matter at present. A burning question was j the Legislative Council appointments, and the rightness or wroiigncss of the Government in asking the Knglish Government to interfere! in our legislation. That was considered a very bad thing. Put in this way, it might be a very bad thing; but he did not look upon it in that light. The Governmciit asked the Home (iovcniment how far any Coventor had a right to interfere in our legislation. --(Applause.) It appeared to him nonsense to say that the Home Governnient did not interfere in our legislation. They sent a Covenior hero without our having a voice in the matter, and he had the power to veto our actions. Then the question was: Had the Coventor a right to interfere in our legislation, and to what extent 7 |[;ul lie a right to oppose the will of the people? When Lord Onslow made certain appointments to the Council deputations were sent up to him asking him not to make them, and he said: " I have made them, and I am not responsible to anyone in this country, but to the Secretary of State alow." Tiie Covcniinent then said: "We must have some men in that House who will give fair consideration to any measures we send up, and, to be of any use, we must have a certain number." At that time the Covcniinent had a large majority in the House, and presumably in the country, and they . were expressing the will of the country when they asked for a certain number of appointments to be made to the Council. If he was right in his contention, then the Covernment were right in asking the Secretary of State whether the Covenior was justified in taking the advice of his Ministers or in acting on his own responsibility and refusing to make the number of appointments lie had been asked to make. Another subject to which he must refer was the public indebtedness. They hail been told that the Covernment. instead of reducing, had increased the indebtedness of the colony, while the Covernment declared that the public indebtedness had been reduced by I'II7,<IIHI bv payment of Moating loans or debentures. Moth statements were true. The indebtedness had been reduced by that payment: but by the conversion of loans--by which process the rate of interest had been reduced, to the relief of the taxpaycr-thc amount on which interest was paid had been increased. A greater capital sum had to be given to the bondholder to induce him to accept the altered conditions as to interest ; but the transaction was to the advantage of the colony. As a matter of fact, there were goo.l grounds for holding that the debt was no L increased, inasmuch as there was less interest to pay, and the interest, properly speaking, represented the country's indebtedness. As to the sinking fund, why should they pay that away" and then go to the expense of borrowing it again? If they were to do without borrowing they must make u.-e of this money or stop all works, and he thought the proper thing was to cany on public works with it. Xo doubt it would be a good thing to reduce taxation on the necessaries of life, but it was better that the poor man should pay a little extra for his tea than that lie should have nothing to buy it with, and unless such money as was available was used public works must be stopped, or they must borrow in order to prosecute them. The indebtedness of the colony he did not regard as being by any means .-rushing. If people were placed on the land, and productive works were undertaken, then with the increase of population and wealth the public indebtedness would be of comparatively small account. A country which was one of the most productive on the face of the earth could surely face a public debt of I'.'iS,(Hill,mil) without talking of bankruptcy, of which there could be no reasonable apprehension whatever. ]'.y the system of co-operative works he considered that work had been found at fair rates for the men and with marked advantage to the community. The reports of the olliciu.ls showed that the results were more satisfactory than under the old system of contracting. The work had been done, not because it w;(s wanted by the unemployed, but because it was required by the country. It was said that this was '•Socialism," and that word was used to frighten them. For his part he did not know that he could give a detinition of '' Socialism," and was quite content to consider whether a thing was right or wrong without being led or frightened by names. If it was Socialism not to let this work by contract, but to employ upon it a few laboring men, then it must be Socialism to employ men in the post offices or in the police force instead of allowing the work done by them to be tendered for, and undertaken by contractors. If this system was good, it was good despite any name that might lie applied to it ; and if it was bad, a good name would not improve it. He did not care what name it was known by, for he was convinced that it had proved beneficial. In referring to the Otago Central Railway, Mr Pinkcrton said it was now proposed to carry the railway to the seventy-second mile, and something like fl 10,1)00 would lie required to do that. He might say that, in company with members of the Railway League, he went over the country through which it was proposed to take the railway, and he was free to confess that until the line was carried to the seventy-second mile it would no*; do much that it was intended to do. When once it crossed the- Taieri River and reached the seventy-second mile, it would provide an outlet for the produce of many thousand families. He thought that there could be little doubt that if the railway were constructed to the point he had mentioned it would very considerably increase the prosperity of the town. While talking about railways he might say that lie thought that the Catlin River railway should not lie neglected. There was an immense amount of settlement going on in that district now, and lie should like to see the railway made to a place called Hunt's Crossing as speedily as possible. Railway management was a question that had been occupying some attention lately, and it would conic up for consideration next session of Parliament. They were aware that the Christchurch 'Press' had written to a number of leading persons in New Zealand asking their opinion as to whether they would lie in favor of the management of the railways being carried on as at present by the Commissioners or by the Covernment—that was to say, that the Government at any rate should have a voice in the management. The majority of those who had been written to were in favor of things remaining as they were, lie was one of those who had been written to, and he expressed the opinion that the railways, like every other public institution, should be controlled by the Covernment.—(Laughter.) It was said that the Covernment could not manage the railways, because so much political intriguing and other abuses would lie carried on ; but were the members of the Covernment so impure that they could not do the work in a proper manner? or were the Commissioners so pure that they could not make any mistakes ? He did not think that the Commissioners were any better than the (iovernment, and that the reputation of the (iovernment would stand equally with that of any of the Commissioners. He did not think much would be done with reference to the liquor traffic next session. At last General Election he expressed himself in favor of the Direct Veto.—(Applause.) He, however, thought that licensing districts should be very much enlarged—so much enlarged that the question of whether drink should be sold iu a certain district would not be decided by any catch vote. Then voting should not be confined to ratepayers—(applause)—but everyone who had his name on the electoral roll should be qualified to

vote on the question. There were other subjects lie had meant to deal with, but conid only briefly mention one of them—the question of bi-nietallism. He might say he was in favor of bi-metallism, as he believed it would prevent the appreciation of gold affecting the value of everything else, but he recognised that the question was a large and wide one, and that it must be faced in (ireat Britain before it could be faced here. In concluding he expressed his willingness to answer questions.—(Loud applause.) In answer to questions, Mr Pinkkrton said he would be willing to assist anyone who, in a manly and straightforward way, asked for the investigation of definitelyfoniiulated charges against the management of the Seaclift' Asylum. The starting of a ■Stale bank was a very large order, and must involve very grave consideration. He thought the Covernment might perhaps in some way control the currency, but he was not sure about a bank of issue unless some protection could be given to those who held its notes. How the standard of value could be maintained he could not tell. If something could be done to prevent the notes falling in value he would be prepared to bring about such a system of currency as would better our position. He would favor the enactment of a law -to punish persons giving their names as directors of bogus companies. He thought there should be boards of arbitration, but did not know how any rule of general application could be adopted to determine what should be deemed the workers' fair share of the produce of his labor. He was in favor of abolishing the totalisator, as he was convinced the evils resulting from it were very great. Its use had multiplied the number of race meetings. Mr Nicoi.i, moved and Mr Dickson seconded a hearty vote of thanks to and confidence in Mr Pinkcrton. Mr Rohd.v moved as an amendment—- " That this meeting thank Mr PiuUerton for his address, renew their confidence in him as a member for Dunedin, and express their confidence in the present Government." He said that of course they knew the Government were in a transition state just now, but he thought the amendment might be adopt'id. Mr M.wiv, seconded the amendment, which, on being put, was carried almost unanimously. Two or three hands were held up for the motion. Mr Pinkkkton returned thanks, and the meeting terminated with the usual vote to the chairm m.