THE FEMALE FRANCHISE QUESTION.

Evening Star, Issue 8612, 4 September 1891, Page 4

THE FEMALE FRANCHISE QUESTION.

THE PREMIER •* BACKS DOWN.” TRYING TO PUT OFF THE EVIL DAY. [From Our Parliamentary Reporter,] WELLINGTON, September 4. The question whether "woman, lovely woman” is to have the right to vote at parliamentary elections was again raised in the House last night in connection with Sir John Hall’s Female Suffrage Bill. There were crowded galleries, and, so far as the country is concerned, probably no question that has been raised in this Parliament has caused so much interest. As soon as the House bad gone into committee on the Bill, The Premiss, who had charge of It, referred to the numerous amendments on the Order Paper in connection with it. There was one amendment la particular which required some Consideration. This Was not a Government measure, and it was no part of the Government policy. The Government were not agreed upon the proposal t in fact, they were divided upon it, «ad members of the Ministry would vote in different lobbies on the question. He was in favor of the principle of Woman’s suffrage and in favor of the Bill.—(Cheers.) Ho, therefore, spoke for himself, and in taking up this measure he took it upon his own responsibility and In onlet to give proper facilities for its passing into law. The hon. member for Ellesmere had said that he was prepared to postpone the time when the BiK should come into operation till 1893, but his (the Premier’s) opinion was that the Bill should not come into force, though it should be placed on the Statute Book in the meantime, till the beginning of 1894,—(Ironical cheers.) There was some little difference between the member for Ellesmere and himself.

Sir John Hall : Yes; there is a General Election between us.

The Premier did not know why the bon. gentleman wanted to postpone the operation of the Bill till 1893, unless the Opposition thought that the Government were going to ask for & dissolution next year.—(Laughter.) The measure might be placed on the Statute (iook, and an expression of opinion got from the people throughout the colony whether they were in favor of it or not. There were many ways of obtaining such an opinion: 1 1 might be done by a plebiscite; or it might be done by a referendum—the Swiss plan of appealing to the country ; or by taking, as the hon. member for Dunedin bad suggested, the opinion of the women of the colony by means of the census papers,—(Mr Fergus : “ The census is over.”) Of course, now that the census was over that plan was out of the question. The constitutional plan would be to place the Bill on the Statute Book and leave it over till after the General Election, la order that the people of the country might have an opportunity of saying whether it should be repealed. Hon. members would remember that in 1875' that course was taken with regard to abolition, and the hen. member for Balswell was one of those who advocated that course.

Mr Rolleston ; I did not advocate it; it was forced on me.

The Premier : Well, the bon. gentleman was one of those who assisted to set that measure held over till after the General Election.

Mr Rolleston : We had no alternative, The Premier proceeded to say that that was a compromise with the opponents of abolition. Some members held that the Female Franchise Bill shoald be brought into force at once. The bon. member for Halswell knew fall well that the danger of bringing it into force at once would be an immediate demand for a dissolution, as it would materially alter the constituencies of the colony. He did not think himself that there would constitutionally be any necessity for a dissolution ; but still he recognised at the same time that a great many hon. members held that if the Bill were to become law at once there should immediately bo a dissolution. —(Mr Taylor; “Certainly so.”) The Bill fehoald be placed on the Statute Book at once. He thoroughly believed in that—(cries of “ Oh ’’)—and he believed that the country would ratify what had been done, ft was only right that the House should give the electors throughout the country an opportunity of expressing their opinions on it. If the country ware opposed to it, then ft would be repealed; if the country was not opposed to it, it would remain the law of the land. Why should they not give the country an opportunity of expressing an opinion on it. Why were the strong advocates of the measure afraid to refer it to the constituencies ? The only question was one of delay; it would only be a delay of a year ’ or two.

Mr Saunders : We should have a delay of fire years. The Premier ; Not necessarily five years, for members knew full well that the average duration of triennial Parliaments was two years. He could see no occasion for impatience on this matter. It was a great organic change, end one of momentous magnitude—of greater importance even than the abolition of provinces. It was doubling the constituency of every electorate in the colony, and it was an experienoe that had not been attempted in any country in the world except in some of the States of America. New Zealand was first to lead in this matter, and they should, in his opinion, be proud to be tbe first country to place this measure on their Statute Book. But in claiming that proud privilege and prerogative they ought not to be impatient, and should take the opinion of the country. That was the position he took on the matter, and he hoped that the House would see its way of expressing its opinion in that direction—to place it on the Statute Book, and suspend itj operation till the country had said whether it approved of it or wished its repeal. By doing this its chances would not bo jeopardised. In the case of the abolition of the provinces, they found that it could not be removed from the Statute Book ouce it was there; it had to remain. The question of female suffrage had been raised for the last thirteen years, but there was not the consensus of opinion on the part of the women of the country that hon. members might expect. Ho believed that women would feel most keenly on the matter when they got the franchise, but they did not feel keenly on it at present. Sir J. Hall had listened with painful interest to the speech of the Prime Minister. Ho suggested that the House should dispose of clause 2, and then discuss the large question which had just been raised, Mr Blake said that he had intimated bis intention of moving—“ That this Act shall not come into operation till 31st March, 1894.” He wished an instruction from the Premier whether this should be put as a provision to danse 2 or be a new danse. The Premier said be did not oare; he left it entirely with the Committee to say how the amendment should be put, but he thought it would come best as a new clause. Mr J. W. Thomson, before proceeding to discuss the merits of the question, wished to direct the attention of the House to the peculiar position occupied by the Government. Ibis Bill was introduced by a private member, and had been taken np by another gentleman as a private member —viz,, tbe member for Wanganni, who was also Premier and a member of tbe Government. Tbe Bill was taken up by him not as a Government measure, but in his capacity of a member of the House. There were precedents for the course, bat he thought it exceedingly undesirable that so important a Bill should be fathered by the Government, especially as they were told that tbe Government were not agreed upon it. That was matter for consideration by tbe House. The Chairman of Committees (Mr Percevel) agreed with the Premier that Mr Blake’s amendment should be put as a new clause, and not as a proviso to clause 2. Mr Blake said that in deference to the opinion just expressed, as well as to that of the bon. gentleman in charge of the Bill, he would put bis amendment as a new clause. He was perfectly willing to have tbe fema'e franchise become law if the ootmtry wished it. His opinion was that the-men and women did not want the Bill, and he wished an expression from the people of New Zealand at the next election by a plebiscite. As tho Premier had said, this was one of the most serious questions possible, even more serious, in his opinion, than tho abolition of provinces, because they were attempting to take a step which no other country had

decided to take. If those who were in favor of the Bill were satisfied that the country would declare In its favor there conld be no harm In allowing It to stand over. The operative clause of the Bill, which provides for the extension of the franchise to Women, was then pnt and agreed to on the voices. PROPOSAL TO DELAY THE BILL, Mr Blake then moved his new olattse, bringing the operation of the Act into force on March 31, 1801. Unless this amendment was accepted some other proposal would be made, and those who did not wish to make the ladies eligible for seats in the House would be disappointed. He was willing to accept Ist January, 1884, if that Were agreeable to the anpporters of the BUI. Mr O’Conor ridiculed the idea that the result of the next General Election would gtve any indication of the will of the people in regard to this Bill, The question then to be fought out—perhaps the very existence of the Government—-would be quite separate from it. The present proposal was a hblloW pretence to delay the measure, tf the voice of the people were to be taken it Should be done by a plebiscite. ( Mr Taylor and Mr Fish considered the postponement of the operation of the Bill a reasonable compromise, and only fair to the ‘electors, The Hon. Mr Rolleston did not think that the Bill was one which the country wanted, but he wished, nevertheless, to disassociate himself from the course now proposed by the Government, To admit the right of women to tfao franchise, And then to postpone its exercise for practically five years, was altogether wrong in principle, and ho must therefore vote against the proposed clause. Ministers Seemed to him to be shirking their responsibility. The whole proceedings were to his mind altogether despicable. Mr Kara, who bad voted against the Bill heretofore, had been satisfied by "lovely woman ” of the error of his ways, and was now prepared to make reparation by opposing the postponement of its operation,

Sir John Hale expressed his disappointment at the attitude of the Government in regard to female suffrage; which had now heen a&rmed in the House by a large majority fend for the fourth time. The Premier had been guilty of great incoudatenoy, and no just reason had been shown for the proposed postponement. He denied that the next General Election would be any. real test of the question. Then it would be one of confidence in the present Government, and it was impossible to get a test vote upon any one question. A postponement until 1893 would bo fair and reasonable, because that would enable women to take part in the next General Election. MR RBEO SPEAKS OUT. Mr Rees taunted the Premier with having given way to Mr Fish in this matter. Just a week ago the member for Dunedin was prepared to go over to the other side if the Opposition would receive him—(Mr Mackenzie: But they Would not.)—and then suddenly he went back to the Government, having evidently made sOme arrangement with them that this Bill should be postponed. Re asked both sides of the House whether that should be permitted—whether the House Was to be ruled by one or two members who would insist and persist, if they could not have their own way, in threatening to desert their party, and threatened further ti stonewall and carry their threats into action ? He declared that each supporters were a curse to their party.— (Cheers.) They were a delusion and a snare. The hon, member for Dunedin was a supporter of this kind, and the sooner they got rid of him the better, and he wished the other side luck of him.

An Hon. Member ; We won’t have anything to do with him.—(Laughter.) Mr Regs : I’m sure you won’t, and I am only saying so in terms of derision. The hon. gentleman went on to say that after a largo majority of the House had voted in favor of the second reading of the Female Suffrage Bill a number of members bad urged the Premier to force it on, and after he agreed to do so Mr Fish made a fuss, kicked hia heels up, and became outrageous in his conduct, until it was found that he badjinduced the Premier to allow the operation of the Bill to be postponed till 1891. Mr Fish did not want the women to have the franchise, and he had said so. Having gone on the warpath against them, the member for Dunedin felt that if they got the vote before the next General Election, Mr Fish would know Dunedin no more—(laughter.)—or, at anyrate, thisCbamber would know him nomoreas their representative. He (Mr Rees) asked was this House to be ruled by a member of that sort? The Premier was probably sincere in bis conduct, but he was weak in temporising and in having given way to Mr Fish on a matter of principle for the sake of expediency. He called upon the supporters of the Bill to rally round Sir John Hall, and not submit to a weak-kneed compromise.

Mr Carroll urged that, as Nature had designed the sexes for separate functions, and as In certain respects women were incapacitated from sitting in Parliament if the operation of the Bill were not postponed to 1891, he would propose to give women seats in Parliament.

Mr Duthie did not see why, if the principle of the Bill were admitted, its operation should be postponed till after the next General Election. Out of the women of his acquaintance five to one were opposed to tbe Bill; and if a motion were made to put off the Bill till another session he would support it, AN INDIGNANT DENIAL. Mr Fisher protested against tbe imputations that he and others, who had opposed tho Bill, were allies of the liquor ring. If the Premier were sincere in regard to the measure ho ought to pass it and go to the country upon it at once. At his (Mr Fisher’s) last meeting of electors a question on this subject simply provoked roars of laughter; and he, though professing hia opposition to female suffrage, was returned by a large majority, For hia own part, he was prepared to go back to the electors on this question alone. “the old man eloquent.” Sir G. Grey considered it unmanly to agree to a delay of a principle already affirmed, which would have the effect of defeating it altogether. He strongly opposed any compromise, even a postponement to 1893. The new clause was formally read a second time on tho discussion of the motion that it be added to tbe Bill. the premier loses his temper. The Premier denied that the Bill was a policy measure, and claimed that he had more than fulfilled all his pledges in giving facilities for its consideration. In regard to the complaints which had been made, he was afraid that Sir John Hall was making use of the Bill as a sort of political stalking horse. Mr Fisher : 1 wonder you haven’t seen that before. The Premier said that his not having seen it ere now was due to bis political innocence.—(Laughter.) He denied that he was giving way to expediency. He was asserting a principle, but deferring its operation until the country should have an opportunity of considering the matter.

ROUSING SIB JOHN HALL. Sir John Hall defied the Premier to show that he was using this principle for political purposes. He had advocated the enfranchisement of women ever since 1879. He moved to amend the new clause by altering the date when the Bill would come into operation to 1893. Mr Mills (Port Chalmers), though supporting female franchise, thought that the vote should not be given to women without some little delay, and to enable them to familiarise themselves with th% position. He should probably support the postponement till 1893. SIB JOHN HALL TRIUMPHS. On the vote being taken in favor of retaining “ 1894.” it was negatived by 271# 22, every member of the Government voting with the minority. The following is the division list : Ans. S3.—Messrs BalUnee,Blak#,.CWm«r, Caradoss, Carroll, Dawson, Duncan, Fish, Fisher, Fraser, Hogg, T. Mackenzie, Jl H'Renzle, Parata, R. R. J. Reeves, W. F. Reeves. W. 0. Smith. Swan, Talpua Taylor. Valentine, Ward. . * Boss (27>-Messrs Buchanan, Buokland, &uiok, Earnshaw, Grey, Raßi Hartman,' Houston, W. Hutohkon, J. KsUy,..lpwlonald,! Mackintosh, Meredith.O- H. Mills; £ Mills, Newman, O’Connor, Pinkerton, Rees, Richardson, Rolleston, Saunders, Shan, Tenner, 3. W. Thompson, Wrlghi

Pairs—Ayes: Messrs U. J. 8. Maokensle, Rhodes, Hamlin, T> Thompson, Guinness, Lawry, valentine, Beddon, Noes: Messrs Joyoe, Bussell, B. M. Smith,; Hltohelson, G. Hutchison, M'Gulre, Wilson, E. Thompson. Sir John Hall’s amendment to Insert " 1893” having been agreed to, an amendment by Sir George Grey to alter the year to 1892 was lost on the voices, A COMPROMISE. Daring the supper adjournment a compromise Was arrived at by which the Bill was to come into operation on June 1, 1893, and on Sir John Hall’s motion the clause was altered in that direction, WOMEN ELIGIBLE FOB SEATS.

Mi 1 CAfcktißOss thereupon moved a new clause providing that every woman registered as an elector should be qualified to be elected as a member of the House of Representatives. Mr Fish took exception to this insensible " fad ” being Copied from America, and said that in the American States where woman suffrage existed the result, according to Mr Bright, was that after the first bltlsh of the novfelty of the thing women did not reootd their Votes, while Among the bettor blass’es it wottld be looked upon as bad form tb do so. Dr Newman, as a supporter of female suffrage, was prepared to follow it up to its natural sequence. Mr Cabkoll twitted Sir John Hall and his friends with being anxious to get the female vote for selfish purposes only. The Minister of Education, though he believed in the Bill, approved of holding over the privileges of .sitting in Parliament till the woffieh had had time to educate thV&eelyes politically. The MINISTER of Public Works said he had had considerable difficulty in making up his mind on the question of the female suffrage, but now that that was affirmed he did not see how the privilege of sitting in Parliament conld be withheld. The new clause was carried by 80 to 24, the result being received with hearty cheering by the opponents of the measure, MB FISH BREAKS OUT AGAIN. On the motion fot the third reading, Mr FiSH dented that the vote taken on Mr Blake’s amendment was a true one, and represented the honest feelings of members. He therefore hoped that the Legislative Council would ignominiously reject the Bill. Speaking with great warmth, the hon. gentleman said that he had received innumerable communications from Dunedin and elsewhere showing that the people were with him in the stand he had taken on this matter. Mr Earnsuaw ; What about the tele : grams in favor of the Bill ? Mr Fish : Those telegrams were manufactured. Those telegrams have been ordered by members of this House, The wire has been put in motion. Mr Earnshaw : Name.

Mr Fish ; Sir, I will not give name. The hon. gentleman’s conscience is a good accuser.—(Laughter.) The hon. gentleman went oh to say that the telegram he had received from Dunedin stated: “Strong feeling here on the franchise. People approve of firm stand you have made, Pinkerton’s funeral ordered,—(Laughter.) The people will not have Pinkerton or Hutchison.”—(Renewed laughter.) That telegram was signed by Messrs W. Simpson, S. M'Donald, and W. Owen, three wellknown residents in the north end of Dunedin, representing 500 other citizens, Was there any flummery, he vauntingly asked, In that ? Another telegram from the same City said: “ Wish you success in your plucky efforts re woman’s suffrage, which is commended here ” He (Mr Fish) at first tried to keep back the name of the sender, but on Sir John Hall insisting on the signature being made public Mr Fish said that it was signed “D. M. Spedding.” The support of the Bill, he went on to say, came from extreme fanatic Prohibitionists 'and representatives of the Dunedin Tailoresses’ Union. The people themselves did not want the female franchise, and the women did not want it. If this Bill became law he did not fear the votes of the women. Those who did not want the vote would probably cast them for him as a protest against the wrong done to them in the wrecking of their softer attributes and the wrecking of their domestic peace. BRAVELY CHAMPIONED. Mr Pinkerton said that there were other telegrams than those just read, and he was strongly urged to do all he could to get the Bill passed into law by Mr William Bolt, on behalf of the National Liberal Association. He protested against the almost indecent reference made to the Tailoresses’ Union in Dunedin. It was highly wrong for any member to sneer at women because they wore tailoresses. He (Mr Pinkerton) had been working amongst these tailoresses for two or three years, and found them honest and respected. The majority of them were fairly educated, and they would compare favorably with other women socially as well as with many of the men in this colony. He was sorry that the Dunedin Cemeteries Bill had not passed, so that he might have selected a decent spot for his burial, inasmuch as bis funeral had been ordered.—(Langhter.) Mr Fish had insinuated that telegrams bad been sent from Dunedin. No doubt the hon. gentleman knew something of that matter himself, SIR FISH BACKS DOWN. Mr Fish would like to say, by way of personal explanation, that he had been misunderstood. If Mr Pinkerton thought he had sneered at the Tailoresses’ Union he was mistaken. The lady he had referred to was the secretary to that union. She held a publjc capacity, and in such capacity she had telegraphed to the Premier reflecting on him in a way that was quite unjustifiable,, simply because he was not inclined to go for female franchise. He agreed with Mr Pinkerton that the tailoresses of Dunedin were a highly respectable class of women. A FINAL PROTEST. On the motion for the third reading of the Bill, Mr Carncross took the opportunity of stating that his object in moving the last amendment made in the Bill was to render the Bill distasteful to the country, and he hoped that it would have that effect.. The motion for the third reading was then put and carried, and the flual stage was negotiated at 1,20 a.m. amid cheers from tl s supporters of the Bill. The following was the division on the amendment moved by Mr Carncross to make women eligible for election to the Honse of Representatives : Ayes (SO).—Blake, Butok, Carncross, Carroll, Dawson, Duncan, Fisb, Fisher, Fraser, Hogg;, Houston, Kapa, J. Kelly, W. Kelly, Lawry, T. Mackenzie, M'Gulre, J. Mackenzie, Newman, Parata, B, Reeves. Rhodes, Seddoo, W. 0. Smith, Swan, Tanner, Taylor, J. W. Thomson, Valentine, Ward. Nobs (24X —Ballance, Buchanan, Buckland, Earnshaw, Qrey, Hall, Harknese, W. Hutchison, Macdonald, M. J. S. Mackenzie, Mackintosh, Meredith, J. Mills, Mitchelson, O'Conor, Palmer, Pinkerton, Rees, W. P. Reeves, Richardson, Rolleston, Russell, Saunders, Shera.