CHURCH EXTENSION.

Evening Star, Issue 7156, 9 March 1887, Page 1

CHURCH EXTENSION.

■ A conference of office-bearers of Presbyterian congregations qf *he (Styifq&suJifgrbß -with the JEceibyteiy of JDanediiL twkplaQeat the> Krrt Church last evening on the subject of church extension. The Moderator of the Presbytery (the Eev. A. Cameron) occupied the chair. The Ber. D. Bobbie introduced the matter, and referred to the statistics, which showed that a large number of Presbyterians wen not church-goers. The Kirk Sessions bad found that in connection with the four Presbyterian congregation of, Xhmedin there were 6,200 persons not oonneo|ed in the remotest way with these congregations ; and, allowing for those front' th& r SoborbKlf|h@9 were 4,168. It was calculated that there were at least 7,887 Presbyterians in tire-City.>prai>sdT so that there were BJI9 with any congregation, fatten in with the suburbs were somewhat worse. those connected' with congregations the town and suburba was 8,000, whiKthe r totjJ number of Preiffiy teriimrwas tihm 8,109 wen, ■uhcdrm&ftqi.' ' tThtf being done towuds eztehding' the influence of. the OhurohVvfoa thns'Aaae very apparent. A statement from the Northern Assembly showed a similar )Stft£f>f things, and throughout the there seemed t6 ben deplorable want of T &ith, effort, ahdeftergy 1 *on the part of the Church to come forward and bring the ordinances and services before the people. The Chaibman said that it ;yasfh no spirit of accuaatitm.ftgfdnstjDunedin ministers that he moved in'this matter,'but 'le wished to put it in this way: They formed a third of the population of Dunedin according to the census, and they ought surely to do a third of the Christianising work, considering the endowments they had. Knox Church being- full, and St Andrew’s nearly so, there was surejly room for some extension. Out of the superabundant life of Knox Church a new congregation should he formed,.and, if necessary, th'ePresbytery could lend theih 't<wadiib(the maintenanoo of such. ’ * ' The Sev; E. 'll. M. Scthkblabd moved—- “ That there is pressing and argent need for church extension m Dunedin and suburbs.”

Mr W, D. Sp\VA|(T rt wjw admitted on ' all hands' that there'waanot' sufficient church organisation; but. it ms not to be supposed that the difficulty wiato be got over by building pew. churches. If they got good clergymen to come out to the Colony the churches Would, her, filled to double the extent they were at present. (Hear.) If. menaould be got who\wnddafa&jr thecongregations the difficulty. woulOg salved. The matter was one which the Presbytery were quite as . capable of solving as anyone outside. The,chairman bad referred toi Knox Church. Nowthey could not iorte menjpera of that church to go to worshipatsomo mother place where there imight be. a:'pastor they knew nothing about. It. would -he better for the Presbytery to exercise their, authority, and, when a clergyman was not' successful, to remove him from his charge, at, once. There was no use in beating about the -bush. For some two or three years past iNorth Dunedin Church, to all intents and purposes, had not been fulfilliogwhat.was to be, expected from it. Of course there, had teemavariety of causes, but some very e’eoidediiaqiionionghtto be taken in such a case.;, Wherevgc a clergyman ceased to be useful to a congregation,theTPresbytery should simply tell him-to go elsewhere. —(Bear.) They oil knev that Knox Church was very full, but the difficulty 'fts to get anyone to move out of it.. .... . The Rev. Wi With: Move theTOmisterout of it.—(Laughter.) ’ * - Mr Sxswabi said that if two dr three able clergymen were got for. therCfittyifhe churches would soon fill ■ . , C*. ; -

Mr Ash thought there ought ito< be no need for argument as.to the necessityAr church extension after the last' conf was a good deal in Mr Stewart as to the ability of-'clergymen in drawing congregations, but he thought those at present ! ih|Dunedin had ' - ’ sufficient ability, as the churdheis werefull KnoxChurch was-full to overflowing, and a docent sitting could not be obtained in St. Andrew’s.. He thought the direction in which they should proceed was in the establishment of ' two or three mission halls and the erection of another ordinary church. A ' Mr K; Bamsa? said he wfluld -snpport the establishment of thisaipn suitable' localities, hut he’ dSJ not oonnder that the necessity had'beep toe erection of Another church in- Duhedim-understood ' that St. Andrew’s’ was' n6t' : ye¥ crowded, and there ■ was roofh for 20fl m«sre : 'St the First , "Chttrch,-while they'all'fchew-tiffit' lfJorth Dunedin bad been* empty**M sOffie-Sime. He thought'this question shfa'filflllefdiferred nntil a - •satistactory settlement, of tite-pfisSrsef North . -Dunedin had been«rrivei£abt u tent

Mr HENNiE-ich it - tfas hh|<eteible to get the middle aricßdwat clasawto&trad churches like ' St. Knox, :ihA<the First The which!-Lb Thadisheld in oonhec* tion with St. had bhenweSy successful, r Br SiUABT ogainst the supposition that ricb mingle in the samaxongregation. He remembered when he had.lso servant; girls jn his congregation, and he should he. f the Conference were to,let the opimon-goAmoad that it poor to meet under the one roof, God.— (Hear.) . , , Mr Hknnie was angry such -should-be placecLon hia He wished simply to express the opinion that special means would have to be adopted to reach the lower classes. Mr 0. White would like to know where another ohoreh couhibe,.erectwLin the City. He did not think the "delegates Tiad looked into this matter properly. If there had been a proper minister at-Horth Dunedin who would, have preached so as to win the people round him the chuiph/would have julh Ajrreat object to be aimed at was to semoes attractive. (Hear.) He remembered going toi_St. , one occasion and having to listen to a very longwinded oration. There was the firstly, the secondly, : the thirdlfjuaud as much as the fourthly, and by the time the fourthly was reached he had forgotten what the firstly was. —(Laughter.) The ministers teemed to forget that it was the laity who had to put iheir hands into their pockets and build the churches, Ifvrohld he doing S'wionjfcdf they built another church and it only became half-filled'"-with . people.’ Auckland six churches, ■ but they were only one-third filled. The appeal for a newbhufch sFdulßSoiKefrom the people themselves. tfc--a. ; ■ nhe Rev. J. Gißßagrefed ‘ with the last Speaker- Let the 'Conferonoe’^tedr 1 out where . a new church" Ww ! wahtedf md 1 the existchurches would lend sdi aid they 'bould. Was if not bettfeF. to ‘ttfte one. eon* 'ajiigaiioh with 600' memhias- tßah ax eon negations with 100 be in exactly what proportion of the people in their where there was a non-going ehurek population •. inthe way of planting a newchurch tupra. Itmust be fefaemfaertti : that:/DnßsHh l*tfes pawing smaller in regard to its population, anditwas the anburbs churches. Instead of the suburban ministers earning and pathetieaHy o:deptittgHCHie woftfi state of things, (the dfy ones should -go? to-then“ T,aod.,»y: OT vlGo and fillyour „ churches, gehltemenf'we'inthe CHy.at uast have our churches fairly well filled.”:,; There First Free Presbyterian- Chanh o£ Otsgoyand a locality hate toj>e fixed fir this. He was very much in sympathy remarks made in-relation to haying,styj missionaries. The thing was to adopt tbe bm,.poeßiblo course in the matter, and hot to teShWeupim anything '^HrSv :t ß<S(sEts said heard it said that'thehohuhbesweiatoopind for poor . IS" ■ were attended by a large number of strangers—. non-seatholders atad pOor pbCpTe were ever welcome. Any deattnrwho happened to he at the door bnfrtpo jficased tiroeevthem, and io matterhbtr Ml* i#i; be room could always be found for them.-r(Hear.) If a little churchesinomattraxtivaifcwouk|Jpa long way towards Seeing than the shurcheerbe occupied ‘ Rev.^. 7 <3iUb ML ,-h 'ix MrXfrViragra h»~ t geta'intohis.phnftb which iaontho way out} hrt be a better attended;.*' Steoo thevbftiaOsßtiab ofinitru- . mental ttwrie >•<: mobs wißr^dou^eesthey atamt the running of a chu^Xwonldt^i^wn preoiate goodmi«u*^j}|||i»

v t. aIL Speaking in (regard t<> go-to that before into my ovm famltf. i® deduced at r Kno x oW story every Sunday / to St. Paul’s?” “Can’t Igo to - StateWl never hear that-request now. y°“ * et the y° un * p T y° ur ohurdlies you will have them eippty; and I say people should be more sympathetic with the „. -vonng-people. We educate a musical taste in {ham, a od why not give them the benefit of instrumental musio inside the churches as well as inside their houses ?- (Hear.) I may be wrong. Perhaps it is presumption on my part in speaking thus. But you have asked us here in conference, and I have given you my opinion on the matter. ~ , Mr A. C. Begg : I think it would be unwise to allow these remarks of Mr Roberts to pass as if they had the approbation of all present. Ido not suppose church extension to mean merely drawing people together to hear music. I suppose it to mean the advancement, of Christianity, the teaching of people to he better men, the improvement of their moral character—not merely going to hear musio. I say if tho motives attributed to young people (which I repudiate) are such that they will not go to church, except to hear fine musio, it is the very opposite of church extension. It is fostering a spirit false to what constitutes pure religion.No. ) True religion is the love of the Lord Jesus Christ, and that will never be fostered by attracting people to church by fine musio. Mr Nichol thought it clear that church extension was wanted of some kind or another. The building of fine churches was of no avail. Comfortable homes were what was wanted, on', these should be visited by good and earne* t missionaries, who would go fearlessly about, their work and gather the people round them. Captain Thomson said Mr Roberta had certainly hit the nail on the head when he said the service of praise was what should be looked after. The praises of the congregation.should be tuneful, and-at the same time prayerful. As to Mr Begg’s view, he must say it was quite characteristic. —(Laughter.) He never could work amicably with anyone. If there was praising in Heaven why should there not be on earth ? After some deliberation as to tho best course to pursue in regard to the matter under ;disoussion, the Rev. K. R. M. Sutherland agreed to withdraw his motion, and it was resolved, on the motion of Mr K. Ramsay, seconded by Mr A Rennie— “That this Conference appoint a Committee to act with the Presbytery s Committee to find out whether there ha urgent need for church extension, and, if so, to recommend the bestmeans of supplying it.” It was arranged that tho Committee should consist of eight members, and that each of the City Kirk Sessions should be called upon to appoint two. The Conference then terminated.