PARLIAMENT.

Evening Star, Issue 4204, 17 August 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

[Bt Teleobaph.]

Wellington, August 17. In the Legislative Council yesterday, A reply was read from the Chairman of the Commissioners of the Public Debts Sinking Fund in answer to a letter from the Speaker. The reply stated that the accounts of the Commissioners were prepared and passed by the Board within the time required by the law, but that owing to a heavy pressure of work on the Secretary to the Commissioners (who is also accountant to the Treasury), and perhaps also owing to the absence of the Chairman from his office through indisposition for some days, the copies of the report and accounts to be laid before the two Houses of Parliament were not prepared until some days' after the time required by law. The Commissioners expressed regret at the delay. In the House of Representatives, Mr Stout asked—(l) Whether the Government have received any memorial or petition from pastoral licensees, bankers, merchants, and others, iu the Province of Canterbury referring to the Canterbury runs? (2) if so, whether the Government will lay the same before tbe House, together with a map of the runs, showing, by colors, tbe lands sold iu runs ?

Tbe Hon. Major Atkinson said that such a memorial had been presented, and that in a few days tbe Government would have no objection to lay it on the table. As to the second question, the matter would be a much more expensive and difficult operation than was anticipated. If it was found that it could be done before tbe end of the session, he would do what could be done, otherwise he did not propose to have it done. Mr Murray asked the Minister for Public Works if the Government had any objection to lay before tbe House a copy of the engagements and conditions, together with the certificates of qualification relative to the appointments of Mr Carruthers as Eagineer-in-Chief, Mr Blackett as Assistant Engineer-in-Chief and Marine Engineer, Messrs Higginson, Knopp, and Passmore as Super intending Engineers, and Mr Clayton as Colonial Architect, and to state whether any or all of these gentlemen have been and are allowed to carry on private practice, and whether the services of any or all of them can be dispensed with after three months’ notice, such as has been given to other' officers of the Public Works Department. The Hon. Mr Richardson said that the Government had no objection to lay before the House a copy of the conditions relative to the appointment of the Eugineer-in-Chief and other officers named. As to the certificates of qualification, that was a somewhat different matter. As to whether or not they bad & right to carry on private practice, the Engineer-in-Chief was permitted, by the terms of his engagement, to take private Eraetice, provided it did net interfere with is duties. Mr Higginson and one superintending engineer were not allowed to take private practice without consent of Government. On one or two occasions they had done something at the instance of the Provincial Government. No permission had

hm girwtoother twotagiaMntoundertake private practice. The nature of the engagement with the Colonial Architect had been sufficiently discussed in the House as not to require information. As to dispensing with these officers, the services of Messrs Carruthers, Blackett, and Passmore copld be dispensed with at one year's notice, the others at three months' notice.

THE SEPARATION DEBATE,

Major Atkinson resumed the debate. He regretted the way that the Opposition were conducting their business, ;especially when such great questions as the Finances of the Government and the form of Local Government were to be considered. Owing to the waste of time by them, he believed it would be now impossible to consider those questions with the time now at their disposal. He asked, had a scintilla of light been thrown upon the financial position of the Colony in aR the debate? The whole question was one of book-keeping, and of the veracity of him* self and colleague, the Colonial Treasurer. He proposed to discuss the figures of Mr Rees,, who said that there was au unaccounted for amount of 140,000 to be explained; and further, that the table prepared last year did not accord with the statement of accounts of year. The fact was, that Mr Bees did not see the way in which the accounts were drawn. The hon. gentleman then went into details, explaining how it was that Mr Rees's figures and his did not agree, and which explained the apparent discrepancy of L 40,000the hon. gentleman Been prepared to discuss the accounts in a popper spirit, that is, to think the Government innocent wuffl they were found guilty, he might easily have put himself right ny applying to the Government, who would nave furnished all the information required. The hon. gentleman next dealt with other statements made by Mr Rees that the balances shown last year were incorrect. W ell, he should only refer the House to the table where they could see the signature, of the auditor, certifying to the balance of over two millions in the bar>V, If any hon. gentleman could prove that any of the figures he adduced were incorrect, ho would be very happy to hear him whto they next discussed finance. Then, as to the charge about alteration of a balanra by a stroke of his pen, ho asked ■ the honorable gentleman to turn to thd ‘ Gazette,’ where they would find a general statement, and a summary. The whole thing had been merely a question of bookkeeping; He objected to tbe mode in which a certain account had been presented as not being the best and clearest mode, and he had transferred the amount, and placed It under another heading. The money was there, though the account was divided. The hon. gentleman explained at considerable length all the charges made by Mrlftees, with regard to the finance of the Colony, to show that he was altogether wrong, simply because lie had not taken any trouble to inform himself. There was no donbt that the member for Auckland East had taken a great deal of pains to examine the public account, but the fact was clear that he lacked the elementary knowledge of the system of keeping the accounts of the Colony. In explanation of the statement with regard to expenditure on the Constabulary, Major Atkinson showed that although there had been an expenditure of L 105,000 in tbe year, there had been received back in the Treasury L 14.000 for clothes supplied to the men. This, of course, had to be accounted for to thfi' Treasury, though it was not necessary for thff Treasurer to inform the House of more t.KaW. what was the exact cost of the Constabulary- Mr Rees had also said that interest was,to be paid on the London account, but he. was again hasty, for it was shown in the: accounts that during the year L 27,000 had been reserved as the interest upon the' London account. The hon. member dealt* with several other points in Mr Rees’S remarks, quoting the figures published in the official return to show that Mr Reesfet conclusions were all astray. Coming to another point, if the hon, gentleman did not' know anything of finance, which no one reading his pamphlet would expect that he, did, he ought at least to be expected to* know something about the law. The . hon. gentleman had said that there was no provision whatever for the disbursement of sums of money at Homeland that anybody could draw out what he liked. He (Major Atkinson) wondered how anyone who had read the Public Revenues Act could such a statement. Major Atkinson then exyplained that, so far from their being no check ■ upon their disbursement of money, it wai surrounded by a complicated system of. safeguards that many thought was excessive precaution. As to the statement the Premier had draw more money at Home than he was entitled to, well this was on a par with the other statements. The Premier had not drawn on. the funds at Home, and as a matter of fact, the' Colony was indebted to him when he arrived here. He paid his own expenses, and then came to the House to re- * coup him. Coming to the resolutions, he : considered their real meaning was a vote of no-confidence in the Government. Instead • cf setting up two Provinces with a'loose federal bond, he presumed the member for the Thames would be goveruor-in-chief, and Mr Macandrew governor for the South, which would no doubt be a near approach to perfection. He would suppose a Native war imminent in the North, which he did not believe in; but which the member for the Thames did. What would be the position of the case? The North would be unable to borrow any money. The governor-in-chief would have all , the revenue in his hands. Under the circumstances, he would have to act at once. He held that it was the great strength of the Colony that the South island members met there and discussed the requirements of each part of the Colony, as well as of the whole Colony. The hon. gentleman then analysed the conditions of the resolutions to show that there could have been ne account taken of the cost in connection with tbe Constabulary and Natives, which could not be less than L 120,000. Why, when they went iutq Cil- • - dilations they would see that what the north would nave with which to cany on the work of Government was L 36,000, a magnificent som truly. But it was idle to suppose that financial separation was the object of the lesolutions. The mil, the only object was to rehabilitate‘Provincial Councils. Take some of the principal speeches in apparent support of the resolutions. They were nothing but a laudation of the benefits of the Provincial form of Government. Supposing tbe resolutions carried. Did any sane man suppose that Wellington, Hawkes Bay, or Taranaki, would submit to be governed from Auckland ? No! They had a lively recollection of what it was twenty-three years ago. Then there was nothing for it but to reinstate Provincialism ' as of old. The member for the Thames was fond of telling them he represented the North Island, but he had no right to arrogate such a title. He succeeded in getting by his persouol influence eight or nine members. elected; but even then be could not speak for the southern part of the North Island—not even for a great portion of Auckland Province itself. The bon. gentlexnui an&* lysed the division on Mr Whitaker’s motion to show that in any case Sir George Greywaa not justified in putting forward such l cJauns. Major Atkinson next argued that, under the system of two' Provinces, thequestions of their public credit and political management could not bo carried on as satis*

faetorily as under one Government. Notwithstanding all that had been said by certain members, and the return of a few against Abolition, the country accepted Abolition and approved of the Government measures. Last session the Opposition promised, if beaten, they would assist the Government to carry oat and frame their measures, but now they cried out for more time; and, so as to have their own way and carry out the autocratic will of Sir George Grey, they were prepared to plunge the whole Colony into confusion, regardless of the consequences. Mr Swanson denied that the question of Abolition had been fought, although he admitted that he did not want Provincialism. The hon. gentleman related a great deal that came under his knowledge since he had been in the House, to show the circumlocution of the system of government, the waste of time and money, the class legislation, and the perpetration of a vast amount of injustice. He had several times seen the House adjourned for the purpose of going to balls, but he doubted whether their constituents sent them there for thatpurpoae. That was not the practice with Provincial Councils. The hon. gentleman commented upon the arrangements of the House, upon the luxury of Bellamy’s; how special crockery was im> ported for it, and the best tipple to be obtained ; and how circulars were occasionally sent round to members to pay tbeir grog score, instead of sticking up the names of defaulters. He would like to know whether these gentlemen were Centralists or Provincialists. The hon. gentleman referred to certain scenes which occurred in the House, and which he attributed to Bellamy’s, and asked was this the high-toned and intensely, respectable House that should sueor at Provincial Councils, in which there were never seen such exhibitions as he just referred to? Coming to the resolutions, the hon. member said that the two great advantages to be derived from the proposed change would be that, having separate Governments in Auckland and Christchurch, it would be more convenient for attendance ; and greater still, they would not have an organised civil service over which they could exercise no power, for he verily believed our Civil Service was more powerful than the Government itself. Taken altogether, the Legislature at Wellington was a failure. In reply to charges that the people of Auckland were ready to profit at the ex--pense of their neighbors, and of people in other parts of the Colony, he instanced the conduct of the people of Auckland when news came of the Poverty Bay massacre,! how one gentleman stepped forward and; offered to guarantee the cost to send asteamer down there, coal, food, and water having been liberally provided, and 300 armed men offered to go to the assistance of these people of Poverty Bay, but the General: Government told them they made ether arrangements. At any rate this showed that Auckland people were not as cold-blooded and mercenary as some hon. members sought 1 to make ont. Mr Swanson had not concluded, when The House rose at 5,30 p.m. Upon the House resuming at 7 30 p.m., Mr Wakefield supported the resolutions in a long and eloquent speech. While denouncing the corruption of the Government, but chiefly of the Premier and the Native Minister, he excepted Major Atkinson and Mr Bowen. Sir George Grey moved the first resolution. This was objected to, and after discussion the Speaker was appealed to, who ruled that the resolutions could be put separately. The Premier then announced that the Government would support the first, second, and last resolutions. The first and second were carried on the voices. On the third being put, the House divided, the result being : Nosb (47): Andrew, Atkinson, Bafcant, Salience, Barff, Bowen, Brandon, Bryce, Bonny, Button, Carrington. Cox, Curtis, Douglas, Pitzroy, Gibbs, Harper. Henry, '■ l u-.iter, Horsthonse, Johnston, Kennedy, Kenny, Wanders, M'Lean (Sir D.)', O. M'Lean, Montgomery, Moorhonse MurrayAynsley, Ormond, Pearce, Pyke (teller), G. E. Sead, Bichardson, Bolleston, Bowe, Bussell, Seymour, Sharp (teller). Stafford, Stevens, Tewiti, Teschemaker, Tribe, Vogel, Williamson, and Woolcock. Ayss (82); Brown J.C. (teller), Borns,DeLantour, Diguan, Fiaher,.(3rey, Hamlin. Hisiop, Hodgkin, ■on, (Joyce, Lumsdeu, Lusk, Uacandrew, M'Farlane, Murray, Nahe, O'Eorke, Bees, Beid D., S ?aton, Sheehan, Shrimski, Stout (teller.), Swanson, Takamoano, Thompson, Tote,. Tonics, Wakefield, Wason, Whitaker, and B. G. Wood. The fourth resolution was negatived by 46 to 32, Sir R. Douglas voting for it and Mr D. Beid being absent. The sixth and seventh were negatived on the voices. The House divided oh the eighth, and the resolution was rejected by 44 to 30. The House adjourned about midnight.

The following are the resolutions:— 1. That in the opinion of the House the state of the Colony requires that its financial and constitutional arrangement should be reconsidered. 2. That the unity of the Colony should be maintained. 3. That there should be two Local Governments, one for each island. 4. That the Colonial Government be responsible for the Colonial debt, for which the annual charge for interest and sinking fund is L 815,00 Island rhall be charged with L 190,000 per annum, and South Island with L 625,000 per annum. 5. That with the exception of those matters of great Colonial importance! which must be reserved for the Colonial Government, each local Government shall have the entire control and management of its own affairs, and the disposal of its own revenues. 6. That the seat of the Local Government of the North be at Auckland. 7. That the seat of Local Government of the South Island shall be at Christchurch. 8. That scat of the C denial Government shall remain as at present in Wellington.

ABOUT THE LOBBIES.

{From our own Gorresfondent,)

Wellington, August 17. Mr -Fyke made a slashing and telling speech on Tuesday night. Of the speakers yesterday Major Atkinson was excellent in defence of the Government proposal and action. Mr Swanson spoke against time to allow Sir George Grey to speak after dinner. Sir George Grey replied with much sentiment, but no argument. The Speaker ruled that members could speak on one side and vote on the other. Sir George Grey threatens further action. Mr Reader Wood goes north to-day for the rest of the session. The Government are gaining strength, and their standing majority is now twenty.