HOSPITAL SCHEME TO GO ON

Evening Post, Volume CXXIV, Issue 122, 19 November 1937, Page 6

HOSPITAL SCHEME TO GO ON

FURTHER £159,250 TO BE RAISED

OBJECTIONS FROM LOCAL BODIES

COST TO CITY £45,000 ANNUALLY

In the face of all-round objection from contributing local bodies and other organisations, the Wellington Hospital Board last evening, by 9 votes to 7, decided to adhere to its original plans and ask the Local Government Loans Board to sanction the borrowing of a further £159,250 to complete the new hospital scheme, which is ' now estimated to cost £750,000. The case for-the Wellington City Council, the largest con-tributing-local body, was put before the board by a deputation headed by the Mayor (Mr: T. C. A. Hislop); who pointed out that the city's contribution to the Hospital Board of £76,700 this year would be increased to £121,700 if the board proceeded with its scheme. Though not" questioning the need for improved hospital accommodation,' Mr. Hisjop urged a meticulous examination of the proposals with the object of reducing the.cost and relieving the "burden on the ratepayers. In the course of his reply to the, deputation, the chairman of the board (Mr. J. Glover) said that the new hospital .could be filled immediately from the present hospital, which was over- " crowded. Overcrowding was so great, and tke danger from infection so ferious, that-the Health Department ■ this-.week had restricted children from going into the hospital. The Health Department, which was behind the board up to the present; had told the'board that it mu9t plan for at least five years, and the board had endeavoured to meet the position. , Action was urgently needed.

In addition to a protest from the City Council objections to the board's ! proposal were received in writing from the Lower Hutt Borough Council, the Makara County Council, the Hutt County Council, the Johnsonville Town Board, the Upper Hutt Borough Council, Mr. F. Castle (a member of the board), the Women's Service Guild, and the Wellington Ratepayers' Association. The Petone Borough Council wrote stating that a resolution objecting to the board's loan application was lost on the casting vote of the Mayor. Two members of the council were absent.

With the exception of Mr. G. Y. Berry there was a full meeting of the Hospital Board. The resolution before the board was as follows:—

That application be made to the Local Government .Loans Board for its. sanction 'to the borrowing of a sum not exceeding £159,250 for the purpose of meeting the increased cost of erecting: (1) Additions to the nurses' home. (2) An acute hospital block. (3) New, boilerhouse and additions to steam service, as authorised in Orders "In Council of June 8, 1937 and July 22, 1937. CITY COUNCIL'S

'■ In presenting the city's case, Mr. Hislop assured the board that the representatives of the City Council did not approach the board in any captious spirit. They realised that there was a need for considerable improvement in the buildings, and that a great deal chould be done to .provide the necestiry facilities; but' they did feel that the amount now involved—threequarters of a million pounds—was so large that the proposals merited even further consideration than that which the board had" given. He did not suggest-that the board was putting forward the. proposals without having gone into them.with great .care, but when he put before the .board .the, effect the proposals were jgoing.to have on the city from the. financial point of- view, and .the fears of the other local bodies, he lelt that the board, would feel that.it.was possible to go once again-over the ground, and see whether it,could -bring, about the desired effect at a considerably lessened expenditure.' . ..

' The City Council had' been perturbed at the growth of the hospital levy In put years, and the increased amount the ratepayers had been called to find. - The" levy in the past few yean wu au follows:—l 932, £51,289; 1935, £55,000; 1936, £57,000; 1937, £68,094; 1938*, £76,100. These flrures showed an increase in five years only of 25 per "cent, in the amount the ratepayers 'had to find.

It could not fee suggested that the growth in population and the growth in wealth of the city had increased by anything approaching 25 per cent. in five years. If that increase was 2 per.cent., then the city had done more than the average. The increased hospital, levy had been causing the City Council concern because the levy had been taking a~ bigger proportion of the amount the council raised by local taxation for other purposes. He did not say that the new provisions should not be proceeded with, but he thought there should be a most meticulous examination of the proposals to see -whether the three-quarters of a million pounds could not be reduced to bring about an equally good result from the point of view of "tire "necessar^r" but not luxurious, ' "/provision 5- -for .-'■ patients, nurses, doctors, etc. f- :.•--:'-• Mr. Hislop bro,ceeded to' 'deal with the' effect the raising of £750,000 would have on the' ratepayers of "Wellington from-a financial point of view-: Taking 5 per. cent, to cover interest and sinking- fund, ths annual charge would be£37,500. Half was- found by the- Government, and half by^the local bodies, and of the local bodies'- share, 75 per cent, was found by. the City of -Wel-| lington. The present proposals, by way of-annual charge, would mean an additional charge of £15,000. When the scheme was completed, there would .be added to the existing £77,000 another £15,000, making a total of £92,000—a sum .very .nearly-double what it was a few years ago. Further, maintenance had to be considered,, and though a sum equivalent to 20 per cent, had been suggested, he was prepared to put the figure at 10. per cent., which . would amount to £75,000,. Half was found by the Government, and 75 per cent, of the other half by Wellington City, which meant that approximately £30.000 would have to; be/found by Wellington ratepayers. This -would'"make a total of £45,000 a year "to b^charged.onthe ratepayers of Wellington.'"' '"'"''

The result. yy*s. that the city's share would go up from £76,700 for this year to £131,700 when .the,, scheme was finished: a figure double that of the levy of 1936. ,i

,Mr. Hislop said that he "did not wish the board to think that he was attacking the scheme in any way; he was merely attempting to 'put before it what the charges would be to the ratepayers of Wellington.. It. would be an increase, of more .than 50, .percent, on this year's levy. "Therefore, We have to look at it very carefully, because there is a limit to the taxable'capacity of • the local ratepayer;' 1 'he said. If such a big proportion of the rate collected, were taken for the* scheme, there vias going to'be very little left for the ordinary essential .s.er.yices, of the city, aid unless Jpcal. -taxation were .to became unduly" high',,. ;; ,.there would be girave difficulty,,,. gj£.did suggest that the scheme should be viewed from the point of view that-riotliifig ornate or

luxurious wts entered upon, and that nothing more than what was. absolutely essential for the purpose was done. ESTIMATES CRITICISED. Mr. Hislop said that he had not perused the detailed plans, but he was aware of some of the estimates. The Nurses' Home was to cost £79,000, and would accommodate 100 nurses. The chairman: 130 nurses. Mr. Hislop said'that even if it accom-modated-130 nurses it would mean that it was costing £600 a nurse. "t>n the face of it that does look to us a very big figure," he said.,"You could build a small house for that.1" That figure alone suggested that other parts of the scheme should be subject to 'careful examination.' Was such an expenditure warranted in such a small community like Wellington? The Nurses' Home figure was an indication that in other itemns, there might.be roomer considerable review. Referring again to the demand on the" city .finances, Mr. Hislop said that the.cpunci'l desired to provide, better accommodation for the engineer's -staff and the staff •at the Town Hall, but such accommodation would cost about £200,000, and the position Would 'have to remain Unaltered if the council considered it could not attord it. He asked that the board should, revise the scheme and bring it down to the lowest possible cost so that the taxable capacity of the ratepayers would still be able to provide essential services un other directions.

The chairman said that the Nurses' Home estimate was now- £84,500, and 147 nurses would be provided for, making the cost £507 per bed. Mr. Hislop: But £507 seems to be pretty big for a house of one room. FINANCE QUESTIONED. Councillor M. F. Luckie questioned the wisdom of building an enormous hospital in1 6ne part of -the city when some of the people who wanted to,use it would not be able to afford the expense to get to it. He thought more consideration should, be given to a decentralised policy. Portion of £600,000 had already been borrowed, and the cost of that would go on next year's rates, though it'was quite pos^ sible that two years would elapse before any of the money was expended. He knew that the answer to that would be that the board had to take the money when it could get it, otherwise it would not be able to get it at such a low rate. "I think the wisdom of such financing is very doubtful," he said. "I wouldn't like to see all our business done the same way."' The taxable limit of the city was gradually being reached, and the stage might arrive when rates would be. almost rent. At that stage the value of property would be very materially reduced.

Councillor W. J. Gaudin said that it was almost impossible to pass on rates today. Today, everybody in New Zealand was prone to get a little out of proportion, and endeavoured to emulate the larger cities overseas. Roads were being'built out of proportion to the country, and much was being spent on Public Works.'

Mr. R. Holland: This should'not be a political address, Mr. Chairman. •The taxable ability of the people of Wellington must be considered, said Mr. Gaudiri.

In reply to Mr. Holland, the Mayor said that no actual division to protest was taken by the City Council. Two councillors asked to have their negative vote recorded. There was a full meeting of the City Council,

In reply to Mr. A. W. Croskery, Mr. H'islop said that the City Council raised objection to the scheme previously.. "We didn't come before, but we have come now because we are desperate," he said. Councillor Luckie said that when the hospital "plans 'were first proposed the heallli committee of the City Council interviewed the Minister of Health-in an attempt to get the figure modified. NEED FOR THE WORK. Replying' to the deputation, the chairman, dealing with the cost of maintenance, said that as soon as the new hospital was erected 200 beds could be shifted in from the old hospital. "We are so much overcrowded," he remarked. Four of the present .wards were built over GO years ago and were obsolete, though they ljoused 100 patients. Those wards would have to be brought up to date. The new hospital could be filled today without any further patients coming in. In the Nurses' Home "double banking" occurred in 70 rooms Thirty. nurses slept out. ' They were providing for only 147. Under existing conditions the new part of the hospital would be filled, and the Nurses' Home filled, and no provision had been made for maids I and others who had to sletp out. :| I

'^^"•■':p'<»^H^' i:.i»f;'ihe.:-JH'6Bfeiiil-.B(Bard is desperate^ ;-.saW'- ftfe■-; Glover.;:1. "This. weeW^wesrecelVje^'.'a'-'l.etterj. frbni ; the Directpr-G^eira^^dii'Heaiilr^statin^tlia^ we had to stop /childrert cipijning into the hospital bepaUse t|, e Wards .are overcrowded amd there, is danger from infection. Conditions aren't fair, and are a danger to the patients and nurses. Something has to be; done about, the matter.";- '■■ ..' : ..- ':■' '.' • ■ '•,':.. • .., ■. . . The chairman said lhat the.. "board would*.'", consider : the representations made.' i: .. .' ■ •••■ '•,'■■■ .' .'. Th^'deputatipri then withdrev^". :,• ■.'•;■- -"'.'.•'COMPABtAiIVB FIGURES.::'- .^_, Moyingithp motion, for the. discussion of which' the meeting Tiad been dalled,'. the', 'chairman : said that- £79,750 "was authorised for the Nurses' Home; the! estimate was £34.500, leaving 'a bal- ( ance of .£4750. For the boiler house, i £46,000 was authorised; the estimate was £52,423, leaving a balance o£

£5423. .. For the.main block. £.465,000 was authorised; the estimate was £588,119, leaving a balance of £123,119. That meant that a total amount of £590,750 was authorised; the estimate was £725,042, leaving a balance of £134,292. There were other matters of a smaller nature making the sum required £159,000. If it were found that £159,250 were not required, .that amount would not be borrowed, but the Health Department considered that there should be balance to come and go on. Mr. Glover said that that matter had been discussed time and time again and he did not propose to go over the ground again. Everybody knew the conditions existing in the Hospital. It was thought by some that the board should keep the amount down to £600,000, and up to the time that figure was agreed on the board was practically unanimous. There had been only two dissentients with the new scheme—Dr. Parr, who thought that it was too extravagant, and Mr. Berry, who opposed it because the scheme did not include building at the Hull at the same time. Work at the Wellington Hospital was carried on under difficulties, and the staff was not being helped in the way it should. The work being done by the nurses, doctors, and honorary staff was second to none, but the conditions under which they had to do their work were far less favourable than those existing at other hospitals. "We are out to remedy that, said Mr. Glover. "Everybody has agreed that we should not go on adding to this hospital on the same system that we have been doing. This hospital has been built in 18 sections. The Health.Department had given the Hospital Board instructions that it must plan, and plan for five years at least and the board had endeavoured to do that. "The Health Department is behind us so far in the matter," said Mr Glover. .The board had considered building In the Hutt Valley, but twelve months ago was Informed that the time was not yet ripe for a hospital at Lower Hutt.

"Although we must decide to go ahead with the whole scheme as far as Wellington is concerned, that will not prevent us from building: at Lower Hutt in the next two or three years, said Mr. Glover.

The. motion was seconded by Mr. Holland.

CONFERENCE SUGGESTED. Mr. A. H. Carman said that the Increased estimate had not been uppermost in his mind. He was objecting largely to the increase in size of, the building. Kitchens, dining-rooms, storerooms, and board room were included at a later »tage, and it was against that that bt was objecting. He thought that 250 to 300 beds, with theatres, could be built for under half a million pounds. He would like to see a conference with the local bodies in an attempt to get their co-optation. Regarding the Nurses1 Home, he-did not think that the board had considered, other than building it in one ftvestorey block. The same number of beds might .be built cheaper in 'two blocks. He was quite willing to* change his mind if b,e .could, see sufficient reason, and he thought that alternate quotes should be obtained from the architect. He would', rather. see\ the whole of the £750,000 spent on b.eds. He would like to see what would be the cost of a 200»bed hospital in, the Hutt Valley. He thought it would be possible to build a hospital in the Hutt Valley, and to build for 300 beds in Wellington for £750,000. He objected to money being spent in an uneconomic way, and he would oppose the motion. Dr. T. L. Parr said that he admired Mr. Carman, who was chairman of the building committee, for the views ha had expressed. He thought that about 50 beds should be provided in the Hutt, to start with. He had objected to the scheme right through because it was of the most,expensive,type. Mr. C. A. L.'Treadwell Said that he doubted whether any, local body scheme had ever*been subject to such criticism.. The opinions of the local bodies should be taken into account. The board should consider boardingout the nurses, as was done in Auckland, thereby reducing the cost of the Nurses' Home. .He. suggested, also,, that .increasing almoners' activities might help to relieve pressure on the bed accommodation. ■ Mr. F. Castle, asked who had had the effrontery to put an extra £27,000, for what purpose had not been considered, on to the amount the Loans Board would be asked to sanction. The architect had been given an impossible problem in being asked to build a modern hospital alongside old buildings. A similar position arose fourteen years ago. He claimed that the new block would not be as efficient as the expenditure would warrant. Newtown was not the only important part of the hospital district, when it was realised that 50.000 people would be served by a hospital in the. Hutt Valley.' The population of Wellington was moving north. The board should give further consideration to details before asking for the extra amount. Not only was the population moving, but the average school attendances showed that the population outside, the city was greater than was appreciated. He opposed the motion, and. asked that the board should take into ■ consideration the representations of the local bodies, and the differences of opinion of board members. "IN A QUANDARY." Mr. G. J. Petherick thought that the board should endeavour to secure a conference before going further. It would be an advantage if it could get the co-operation' of the local bodies. During the depression necessary work was not done, and he felt now that the issue should be met, but he hoped that the co-operation of the local bodies would be sought. "I feel in a quandary how to vote," he said, "but I feel that something should be done, and done speedily." Mr. Croskery said the local bodies had been met, and no objection to the scheme had been heard. The time for board members to have raised objec ? tion should have been when the architect was here. He did not think that the red herring of a hospital at the Hutt should- be introduced into the question whether extensions should be made at Wellington. In the main hospital block today there was bed accommodation for 275 patients, but there were 150 to 180 patients in excess of that bed room. Patients were on verandahs, and were on stretchers down the middle of the wards and in any old place where a bed could be placed. That was a serious problem without considering the Hutt Valley at all.

Mr. Carman: A Ilutt Valley hospital would relieve that.

Croskery- Not.at all. The Medical. Superintendent has ;a waiting list of Wellington people numbering ' 400.

.;'•■ The., architect ; Jiad'. , informed the board that a hospital. was'riot needed at the Hutt yet, said. .Mr. Croskery. Why' was .the" question' not -raised be; fore1? Further, the.Health Department had! forbidden the hospital to take in children. Mi\ Croskery referred to the necessity for hospital, centralisation and pointed out that patients had to traverse1- long and draughty corridors to. and from the operating theatre.

- Mr. Carman: Nobody, agrees with that...-' ..--.;> • ; ■

■ '■. Mr. Croskery: These arc some of the facts that led us to the position that we have to reconstruct, whether we like it or not.

He said that the incrsEsa in his rates would be 10s per annum, and tea would pay it willingly. Large vested

interests would have to pay, but they would only pay their quota. In the Nurses' Home, 75 nurses were sleeping two in a room. Nurses were sleeping all over the place. Boarding nurses out would be too expensive. Nurses' hours were 48 weekly, and they, had to be reduced. One could not I expect tired.women to nurse sick people, but the hours could not be reduced without further accommodation. AMENDMENT OUT OF ORDER. Mr. J. Purvis favoured a conference with the local bodies to discuss the whole position fully, and he moved an amendment to that effect. This was. seconded by Mrs, S. E. Blake, who said she. would oppose the motion. The i scheme had; grown considerably "since the last conference with the local bodies. Mr. Croskery raised a point of order. Was the amendment proposed,by Mr. Purvis really an amendment to the motion?.. •'/■■ The chairman ruled that it was not. Mr. R. Holland objected to the hospital plans' being . made a political issue. A member of the' board had seconded a motion at ameeting of the Hutt Council, that the plans be opposed. * . ; Dr. D.M. Wilson said he had; always been in favour of the scheme, and-the board was offering the public as near the ideal as possible. . There;"was much-hostility ■'■ to the scheme,' and though the'law-was on the ■ board's., side,., he/thought . they should not go ahead without consulting,. the local'bodies. ". The chairman: I am quite agreeable: to" a conference; we have had a: con-ference;-before. : :

He pointed out -that kitchens -were included in the first, report.: Boarding

put at Auckland only related to trained' mirses. "There certainly has beeii a change of heart by some persons," said Mr. Glover. He read a minute in which Mr..-Castle moved that permission be sought from the Loans Board to. raise £600,000. , Mr. Purvis had seconded the motion.

Mr. Carman: Circumstances alter cases. '' ■"■•'■'■ ;'•■■:■ ••■■■ • ■■. ■

The chairman: They don't alter, the situation at the hospital, or the; need in the hospital. Now the same people are arguing about building at the Hutt.! The whole board supported it without mentioning anything about the Hutt. Mr. Purvis: The extra cost should be spent in the Hutt Valley. v The chairman: That is not what you said a' few moments ago. CLOSE DIVISION. The motion was carried by 9 votes to 7. The voting, was:— Ayes: Mesdames E. M. Chapman, R. M. Collins, A. McVicar, M. Semple, S.1 E. O. Snow, Miss A. G. Kane, Messrs. A. W. Croskery, J. Glover, and R. Holland. . '■■.' , Noes: Mrs. S.E. Blake, Messrs. A. H. 'Carman, F. Castle, G. J. Petherick, J. Purvis, C. A. L.vTreadwell, and' Dr. D. ]Vt Wilson. -.-.-

... Mr.-G. Y. Berry; was the only member, not present,at, the meeting. Dr. T. L. Parr, who was recently ill, did not ;wai(; for- the .vote.... At : his -request, his1 attitude was recorded, in,the minutes,: