TRADING COUPONS

Evening Post, Volume CXII, Issue 97, 21 October 1931, Page 10

TRADING COUPONS

RESTRICTION ON ISSUE

BILL BEFORE THE HOUSE

AMENDMENT LOST

Alter a debate of several hours in the House of Representatives yesterday on the Trading Coupons Bill, promoted by the Government with the object of restricting the issue of trading coupons, progress was reported on it, the Committee stage remaining uncompleted. A handful of members who opposed the motion to commit were substantially defeated, and an amendment to the clause relating to the redemption of the coupons had a similar fate. Other amendments still remain lo be disposed of.

Moving that the Bill be committed, the Minister, of Internal Affairs (the Hon. A. Hamilton) said that the measure had been fully discussed bofore the Industries imd Commerce Committee, which had heard evidence from both sides concerning it. Mr. Hamilton remarked that there was a tendency nowadays to entice people to buy things they did not really want and which they sometimes could not afford to buy. No objection could be t alt en to cneouragiug people to buy goods, provided they adopted methods that were not objectionable to the bulk of the traders and to the public in general. There was a good deal of opposition to the system of coupon trading. A Inrge number of the retail traders had lodged objection to the custom, declaring that it was not a desirable form of trading, and asking that it bo regulated, if not stopped. It was just -a question, said the Minister, as to whether the custom of encouraging people to buy was not

overdone.

THREE SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT.

There appeared to bo three schools of thought as to what should be done regarding tho trading coupons custom, said Mr. Hamilton. The first school argued that the State should not interfere in any way. This could be answered with tho fact that the State already played a large part in licensing or regulating trade and business. He referred to the traffic regulations which one encountered every day in tho streets.

Mr. W. J. Poison (Independent, Stratford): "Don't you think it is regulated too much?" Mr. Hamilton: "I believe there are enough inspectors ami regulations." Some traders contended that they should be allowed freedom to act in their own way in regard to the sale ot' poods. The second school oi! thought was of opinion that the coupon system should be confined purely to those engaged in some form of business, that it should not be placed in the hands of a coupon company, and that the coupon system was not an evil provided it was carried on in a legitimate way. The third school of thought contended that, all gift systems should be abolished. TENDS TO DECEIVE. The Minister expressed the opinion that the coupon system lent itself to deception and tended to undermine tho principle of goods being sold according to their merit, and ho thought that a reason had been established for some interference if people were induced to buy more by tho offering of a gift than by the value of tho goods or the necessity for purchasing them. He added that he should not wonder if a. lot of peoplo bought goods rather because of tho gifts offered than for tho value of the goods themselves. They should bo encouraged to be thrifty. The main purpose of the Bill was to prohibit tho use of trading coupons by persons other than the manufacturers, packers, importers, distributors, and sellers of goods, and to provide that trading coupons should be redeemable for cash only, after 30th April next. In conclusion, the Minister added that any amendments which were moved to the Bill would have to be considered on their merits. A TRAGEDY. Mr. M. J. Savage- (Lab., Auckland West) said tho Bill was not likely to do any good or any harm. It seemed they were trying to hold down tho_ competitive spirit, once praised very highly, by legislative enactment. The Minister had said there was a danger that peoplo would be enticed to buy, but under present, conditions, Mr. Savage said, lie did not think there was much fear of people buying too much. They were told to be thrifty; that would ai>poal to men who were getting 10s a*week. If it were not such a tragedy, it would bo a very good joke. Mr. A. Harris (Government, Waitelnata) said it was diflicult to know whether the Government or the Minister supported the Bill. No one out of the one and a half million consumers in Now Zealand had come forward to support the Bill before tho Select Committee. He believed that at the present time they should encourage peoplo to purchase as much as they could. Coupon trading was in operation in many parts of tho world, including Great Britain, America, Canada, 'Fiance, and parts of Australia. Mr. Harris refuted tho suggestion that those people who had signed the petition against the Bill had received some material, gain as a result of their action, and he believed tho petition rer presented the views of the people of the Dominion. Tho adoption of the Bill would mean a decreaso in revenue to the State, and that should be a big consideration at present.

Mr. E. J. Howard (Lab., Christchurch South) said he would support the Bill, owing to tho numerous requests he had had made to him to do so from small shopkeepers. A Government member: "What is your own opinion of tho Bill?" Mr. Howard: "I think it is the funniest thing I have ever read in my life." (Laughter.) He said he would really liko to know what tho Bill meant. A small amendment to the Trading Stamps Prohibition, and Dis-j count Stamps Issue Act would have accomplished more than tho Bill. AN AMENDMENT SOUGHT. Mr. A. E. Ansell (Government, Chalmers) said there was little doubt that the public had to pay for the gift system. However, if they abolished the gift system they might drive many businesses into the free gift system, which might be very much harder than the coupon system. It had been said that if the Bill was passed the State would lose revenue, but if a large number of small traders experiencing difficulties at tho present time,' was thrown out of business, then tho State in its turn would suffer. Tho coupon system was intensifying the difliculties the small traders were experiencing. Mr. Ansell gave notice of the following amendment: —

"Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Act, every person is guilty of nn offence who, after the 30th day of April, 1032, grants or gives to the purchaser or user or to any person on his behalf, in connection with tho sale or purchase of any goods, any discount, gift allowance, concession, or benefit of any kind whatever, other than by way of cash, or by way of additional weight or measurement of flic said goods, and not being in excess of the value of what is usually, ordinarily auri customarily allowed in Xew Zealand."

He also gave notice o£ a cofiscqucn

tifil amendment to the short title, making it "An Act to prohibit gift trading schemes and the issue of trading coupons except for redemption by way of cash discount or goods in kind." Ho said that the new clause would not prohibit the sale of more than one article or a collection of articles for the one price, but it would prevenMhe subsidiary goods from being described as freo gifts.

"ATTEMPTING THE IMPOSSIBLE."

Mr. F. Langstono (Lab., Waimarino) said it was absolutely impossible to protect business people from their own stupidity. He asked Mr. Ansel! whether the automobile associations did not^ do something similar. They told motorists that if they joined the associations they would get their accommodation at a cheaper rate. The same applied to the commercial travellers. The quarrel seemed to be between the newspapers and the coupon traders, who had used coupons instead of tho columns of the daily papers for increasing their business. Tho system did not stop with fancy goods,'but it applied to all sorts of discounts, rebates and concessions, and ho considered that the Minister wag attempting; tho impossible. Mr. 11. Holland (Government, Christchurch North) said that after hearing the evidence given before the Industries and Commerce Committee he was convinced that the system had grown out of all proportions. The gifts were largely of foreign origin, and did not benefit the Empire one iota. Unfortunately the Bill did not prevent the issue of free gifts. Mr. W. E. Parry (Lab., Auckland Central) asked whether the coupon system had a greater effect on the small trader than large concerns. He believed that tho Bill aimed a blow at the poorer section of the community. It was the poor section of tho community who saved up tho coupons, and he thought that tho measure was a step-ping-stone to a Bill which would abolish tho time-payment system. If tho Bill was designed to give credit to the producer it would receive the enthusiastic support of the Minister, but when it gave a form of credit to tho consumer his party was opposed to it. The moment tlicro was a movement sifoot to aid the worker it met with strenuous opposition.

Mr. D. M'Dougall (Government, Mataura) said that he had never mot a housewife who wanted the Bill. If the coupons were taken away the people would still have to pay the same amount for their goods. It was not the people who were asking for the Bill, but the large warehouses. He did not think the House should waste its time discussing'the Bill, and he would vote against it. RUBBISHY GIFTS. Mr. J. T. Hogan (Independent, liangitikei) said he was convinced restrictive measures were necessary in connection : with coupon trading, and he would support the Bill. At tho same time he did not think it went far enough; it should include the free gift system as wnll. Some of tho greatest rubbish in the world was being ' distributed in the way of gifts. Ho believed the time was coming when tho chaiu stores and the hire-purchase system would have to be tackled. In support of the Bill, Mr. fi. A. Wright (Government, Wellington Suburbs) said that undoubtedly tho Bill interfered with the competitive system, but the competitive system required regulation. He agreed that coupons should be redeemed for cash. He could not understand Labour members' condemnation of the Bill, which seemed to him to be one of the fairest measures ever introduced. Evidence had been brought before tho Committee to show that the preseut system would ruin a largo number of business people. It would be far preferable to give purchasers cash discounts aud enable them to purchase articles they really wanted than that they should receive articles which they would not buy or could not afford to buy in ordinary circumstances. PROTECTION OF THE PUBLIC. Mr. 11. M'Kcen (Labour, Wellington South) said there was no such thing as a free gift system. There was no such thiug as something for nothing, and anyone who justified the coupon system could also justify the adulteration of food-sfuffs. It had been said that the Bill 'was the result of Press propaganda, but he was not concerned with that side of the question at all. What he was concerned with was the protection of the general public, and he considered that the Bill did not go far enough in prohibiting any fleecing of the people by unscrupulous traders. Many people thought they had a favour conferred upon them when they received a coupon along with their purchases, but the gimcraek gifts they received for their coupons were worth far less than the advance iv prices caused by the coupons. Tlie purchasing public always had to pay in the long run, and ho considered that an organisation, similar to the Food Council in Great Britain, should be set up to protect the consumer.

Mr. G. C. Muniis (Government, Itoskill), chairman of tho Committee which reported on the Bill, referred to tho profits made under tho gift system, as levealed before the Committee. It had been shown that 33 1-3 per cent, of the coupons wore not redeemed, reflecting direct profit to tho trader.

REQUESTS FROM ALL CLASSES,

Replying to tho discussion, the Minister pointed out that the Bill did not prohibit the coupon system but restricted it. It limited tho issue of trading coupons to certain people. Professional coupon-issuing concerns would Ibe put out of business. The only people who would bo permitted to issue coupons would lie manufacturers, packers, importers, distributors, or sellers of goods. Conditions and restrictions for the issue of coupons woro laid down, and the method of redemption, was prescribed. The straight-gift, system would not be affected. Mr. Hamilton said that tho request for the restriction came mainly from the small business men. It was ■ not directed against the poor people; requests had come from all classes, including the poorer people. The motion to cummit the Bill was challenged by Mr. Harris, but was carried by 57 votes to 5, Messrs. Ha iris, Langstone, M'Dougall, Parry, and J. AT Combs (Labour, Lytteltou), being the only opponents. Speaking on the short title clause. Mr. Harris said that there was no reason why the collector of coupons should not, have the option of accepting cither money or goods of an equivalent value, and lie expressed his intention of moving an amendment to that effect. Mr. Wright said that the amendment was designed to kill tho spirit of the Bill. The great majority of the people would not know the real value of the articles which might be offered to them. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. H. -T\ Holland) said that he could not work up any enthusiasm for or against, the measure. Under the Bill as it stood the collector of coupons could got either cash or goods, as he desired. There was nothing to prevent him collecting cash at one counter and buying goods at another. The Bill would certainly not set the Thames on fire.

DANGEROUS AMENDMENT FAILS,

When the clause relating to tho redemption of the coupons was reached, Mr. Harris moved in accordance with the amendment he had given notice of.

Mr. Hamilton said ho could not aucept tho amendment, though there was I '^rhaps a good deal of merit in it. However, he could not see that there was real value in it; indeed, it was dangerous in that it threatened to destroy the principle of the Bill.

The amendment was lost by 47 votes to 8, its supporters being Messrs. W. 1;. Martin (Labour, Raglan), Jordan, Liingstone, Howard, G. C. Black (Independent. Motuekn), Harris, W. .E. Biirnfird (Labour, Napier), and Parry.