BUDGET DEBATE

Evening Post, Volume CX, Issue 28, 1 August 1930, Page 10

BUDGET DEBATE

MONEY FOR SHARES

LABOUR. MEMBER'S CHARGES

COMPANY FINANCE

F The Financial Debate, was mvi tinned in the House of lleprescntaj fives to-day. A criticism or' the iin- , ancial transactions of certain com- ; panics was made by Mr. F. Laug- ' stone (Labour, AVnimarino) and the ' Minister of Internal Affairs (the Hon. P. A. do la Perrcllc) defended the financial policy of the Government. Mr. Langstono said that tlicrc was a company in Auckland that was masquerading under the title of Civic (Theatres, Ltd., and it had been advanced money by the Bank of New Zealand. The theatre had been built at a cost of S 180,000, and actually nothing had been paid for the shares, but the money Jiad been advanced on guarantee. Thus the shareholders were able to sell shares for. which they had paid nothing. Here tvas a time when the country wanted money ,for development purposes,: arid J^et a company was putting forward a Scheme such as this and getting away Vith' the plunder. He considered that S'Ned Kelly had been very foolish in holding up a bank. If ho had done n little manipulating he would have made much more money and woukl not have run any risk." It 'seemed that ;the law should be amended. The thug and the sneak thief showed c6urage, but the financiers pilfering the people ■were being- protected. The New Zealand Insurance Company had just paid £.300,000 to the shareholders, making inch- shares fully paid up. The shareholders had only paid 4s for their £1 pharcs, and at various times had' rcpeived bonuses amounting to £400. 'It was pilfering, and at the same time ,£here were people unemployed. '' THAT IS BLASPHEMY.'' The Rev. Clyde Carr (Labour, TiJnaru): "That is blasphemy." Mr. Langstone: "I don't know anything about blasphemy. I will leave that to the reverend gentleman." ' Mr. Carr: "You are hitting the high Jjriests of. finance." . . < Mr. Langstone said that he would £iot worry .if these people were risking their own credit. He maintained that ,i Committee or a Commission of the ■ jETouso should be set up to make a full inquiry. There had been a great harangue when Theodore and M'Cormack ,Were accused of manipulation in Ausjtralia, but nothing was said of company affairs in JN'ew Zealand. There tvould be nothing said in the newspapers because the newspaper owners were Shareholders in the big -companies. ■ . The Hon. W. Downie Stewart (Reform, bunediu West): "Wasn't there ft guarantee for this loan?" Mr. Langstone: "There may have Jb.ccn, but that doesn't get away with [£35,250 bonus shaves." Mr. Stewart: "For the guarantee?" Mr.. Langstone: "The fact remains piat the Bank of Now Zealand is finding the money. These men are not taking .the risk." ... Captain- H. M. Eushworth (Country Tarty, Bay of Islands): "}{ave you noticed a drop iii bank shares since the introduction of your Bill?" Mr. Langstono reminded the House jbf.the saying of the lowly. Nazarenc to the money changers: "My House is a House of prayer and not of thieves." Jf the Great Master, were.to come to Auckland to-day he would have to reiterate those words. A State. Bank, Continued Mr.' Laugstonc, was the only solution of the financial position, both from .the Government's and citizens' point of view. Unless an individual Was.in the ring he had no chance. Members of the House might be facetious, but there was not more than half a dozen of them prepared to criticise the banks. They were afraid of the: consequences. He criticised the Customs duties and- the amusement tax on the smaller prices. There was quite enough wealth in the country that could be taxed without burdening the worker. ]He advocated a steeper graduation .of ancome tax. There had been complaints qbout the increased taxation, but money Jvas going abroad for investment. CONSISTENT INCONSISTENCY. The Minister of Internal Affairs (the Pon. P. A. de la Perrelle) said the .Leader of the Opposition had stated .again and again that ho was willing .:..©> assist tho Government:, but before GMt. Forbes had put, one- proposal b'etioro the country Mr. Coates had moved :'a no-confidcncc motion. Tor consistent inconsistency Mr. Coates took a lot of (beating. It was up to every party to help the country out pf its present jUiffieultics. ■ Mr. Coates: "Don't you think you Should have thought of that over ■eighteen months ago?" The Minister said Mr. Coates had jo.pt uttered one word of helpful criticism or made one useful suggestion as ,to how file finances could be placed in a sound position. The deficit of |£3,000,000 was a very serious matter. courses were open to the but whatever happened the, Government had to face the music, and that was what the Government was jdoing. The Government was -accused of extravagant expenditure, but the :faet was that much of the extravagance could be laid at the doors of tho past Administration. If it had not Jieen for the immigration policy of the past' Government it would not bo necessary to pay but so much money for relief works. The Minister said the ' Government had received no credit for removing Jhe 2 per cent, primage duty. Mr. A. Harris (Reform, AVakemata): "'But you have doubled it." ' Another Reform member: "What febout the surtax?" . The Minister said that the taking bff the primage duty would1 result in a saving of £400,000 to the people of thr: Dominion. The Government could 3iot be. blamed for unemployment, ■whit-It was beyond the control of any G'overnmcnt, but the United Party was pattking every effort to cope with the problem. Touching on the Defence problem, the Minister said there could lie no'objection'to suspending tho Act for twelve month?."' Mr. Harris: "You have no right to do it." ;. Mr. Pcrrelle said the Reform Party had wasted money by importing a large .number of saddles when it should have lieon known that cavalry was out of date. Mr. Harris: "What about Palestine?" Mr. Pcrrelle: "Palestine was a mere {nothing." Mr. Samuel: "That shows tho MjnSster knows nothing about it." THE PETROL TAX. The Minister defended the petrol tax, (Svithout which it would be necessary jbo derive taxation from other sources. The Hon. W. D. Stewart (Reform, {Dnnedin West): "What about the J-Jd stamp?" Mr. Perrelle: "That was the only Contribution you made to the debate." The Minister urged that tho farmers [would benefit from the petrol tax. Mr. W. J. Poison (Independent, {Stratford): "But you arc taking the {benefit away through other sources." The Minister: "Not 'at all. The Member, for Stratford is a very poor ■-representative of tho farming community, Ho dilly-dallies and does not 'fciiow where he is." The farmer would rnofc be taxed for the petrol .ho made use of on his farms. 'I'he- Minister went on to criticise the

expenditure by the Reform Party on railway workshops, and said the- Govornment was faced with certain expenditure which it could not avoid. If New Zealand was to progress, secondary and primary .industries must walk hand in hand, and ho wanted to assure the manufacturers of the Dominion that the Government was out to do all it possibly could to assist tho secondary industries. He believed the people of New Zealand would agree that the Prime Minister had acted wisely in the taxation ho had had placed on industries. The Department of Industries and Commerce was doing everything possible to encourage people to rise New Zealand goods. Tho Government had effected numerous economies, but nothing had been done to impair the efficiency of the Departments. BURDEN OF TAXATION. Mr. H. M. Campbell (Reform, Ilawkes Bay) said that the United Party had started off with a crusade of vilification of, the Reform Party from one end of the country to the other. They had made extravagant statements and promises that they could not carry out. The Minister who had just sat down had practically admitted that the Ministers . were directed by heads of Departments. He had also read out articles that had been admitted duty free by the Reform Party, showing that the present Government had not an idea of its own. There was no doubt that the general depression had been the cause of many of .tho problems, but there was no donbt that it had been accentuated by'the Liberal and Labour G.overnments .in ' various countries. Those countries that had had sound Government had not suffered to nearly the same extent. Where was the increasing of the taxation going to end? If some reasonable curtailment was not brought in they would go from bad to worse. There was no necessity for the increase. The position should bo reviewed in the light of economy. MILITARY TRAINING. The Minister had stated that the military training was being suspended for a year. Mr. de la Perrelle: "Yes." Mr. Campbell said that he would not obiect to a suspension for a year, but they wanted a definite statement. Air de la Pcrrclle: "Wait and see." Mr. Campbell said that tho scheme was part of the policy of the Labour Party, which was forcing its policy on the Government. Tho Liberal Party had always professed Imperialism, but it was neglecting its duty to the country and to the Empire: He hoped that the Government would give consideration to the returned soldiers, who as the result of war service wero breaking down. ■ ■ Hon. J. G. Cobbe: "Vvo have given a promise in that direction." Mr Campbell said that nothing had 'been done for these men yet and the country would soon demand that the Government take adequate action. It was most necessary that the Government should give a guarantee to the fruitgrowers. They did not want a. Budget that had shaken the confidence of tUo people, but one that would reduce taxation. It was only by lessening tho burden that prosperity would be restored. The late Mr. Massov had reduced taxation after tho war", ami as a result the Dominion had enioved prosperous years. The farmers could not stand-the penal tax, and he showed instances of farmers' stocks being depleted because of tho taxation. It meant that land was lying idle- and being covered with weeds. If the laud tax was abolished all the land would be occupied in six months. Mr. Campbell urged the Government to make some effort for closer land settlement There were many men in his district who wore in seasonal occupations, and if these men' were given small holdings 'it would' do a lot to solve the uvemployment problem. The only point he could give the Government credit on was its at£rtudo on the question, of Imperial preference. ' _;' . ,' . The Minister of Lands: "What about the super'land tax?" . Mr. Campbell: "Yes, the Government is taking" it off with one hand and putting it on with1 the other." To-day tho' farmer' was" paying both income and land'tax.. Dealing with the petrol tax Mr. Campbell said ho was afraid it was going" to drive many people out of business, but apart from that it seemed unfair to tax an isolated section of the community in order to bolster up tho Consolidated Fund. The Minister of Customs should try to secure some reciprocal tariff arrangement with the United States, as New Zealand was being most unfairly trqated at present. He was very disappointed with the Budget proposals, and the Government was driving the country into a very desperate corner. M' DONALD MINE, Mr. W. J. Jordan (Labour, Mauukau) said that the Dominion could not afford to have a large-army of unemployed, and it was essential that work be found for everyone. ' The Government Departments, with the exception of railways, had shown a profit, and the cost of management of the Public Service had also dropped. It was a matter for regret that a State mine had not been opened in the north for the benefit of the people, but-instead a mine had been leased to a company. When'the Auckland Power Board had had to rely on coal for', the generation/ of power before the opening of Arapuni, it had been able to buy coal at 7s Id per ton. Mr. Jordan said that the Minister had maintained that the Government had scored a great victory, but it was hardly a great achievement on the part of'the Government to give something away in order to get dearer coal. The Government would do well to encourage the trading, of State Departments. The attitude of the Civil ■servants of f ormingv different societies did not seem to him to be in the best interests of themselves and the State. It was better that they should have one society because unity was strength. In England all the societies were grouped under the Whitley Council, which looked after the interests of both services and the staff. In the Dominion there was a very enthusiastic Public Service, but they were given very little discretionary powers. It had been said that before any change was made in the Defence system the, officers had been consulted. This "privilege should be extended to the members of the other Departments.- The 300 railwaymen who were dismissed should have •been consulted. If a Committee was set up of railwaymen to consider, the service he considered that they would get better service. He thought that the time had arrived when they could abolish- the first-class carriages on the suburban lines. No one ever used them, and furthermore there were no firstclass carriages on the trams and the ferry services. It seemed'that tho Department was not out to make the service popular. Tho Government was doing its best in. setting up Committees, but he disagreed with -the personnel of the Railway Commission. The Committees of the House were overlooked. The chairman of the Railways Committee of the House, Mr. Hogan, was just as experienced as tho chairman of the Committee set up. The House was being ignored. ■ Men had been discharged from the railways and the speaker was a member of the Railways Committee, yet he did not know anything about it. ■ A Reform member: "Wo know nothing " The Hon. S. G. Smith: "Hear, hear!" (Laughter.) Mr. Jordan said that it' had been suggested that men be brought out to make an inquiry into the defence system. If the personnel was carefully selected the Government could get any 'report it wanted. (Proceeding.)