IMMIGRATION

Evening Post, Volume CXII, Issue 18, 21 July 1926, Page 5

IMMIGRATION

GOVERNMENT'S POLICY

ASSAILED

DEFENCE BY THE MINISTER

DETERMINED TO CONTINUE PRESENT SYSTEM.

Immigration and the related subject of unemployment within the Dominion have been debated j several times in the House of Representatives this session. Tho ■whole of yesterday afternoon and the opening of the evening sitting were devoted to a further diseii--sion, at the conclusion of which the Minister in Charge of the Immigration Department made a reply. Th 3 opportunity for further ventilation of the subject was afforded upon tho resumption of the debate on the motion to print the annual report of the IrciuigraUon Department, wM-_l_ was previously talked out. Actually, the motion was again talked out, but the Minister was permitted to reply in the evening. "What a delightfully easy thing it is to criticise, that is, for those who have few responsibilities and no necessity to act," mused Mr. D. Jones (Ellesmere) after listening to Mr. D. Sullivan (Avon) expatiating on the evils of the Government's immigration policy while unemployment existed in the country. A Labour voice: "Oh, that's old." "No matter how old it is, it is nevertheless true," rejoined Mr. Jones. "The Labour Party says it is international in its politics and sympathies, but as soon as a worker wants to come to New Zealand, away from the hard and difficult conditions of the Old Country the Labour Party sets out to block it." Mr. Sullivan: "We are willing to bring them hero to work; you bring them here to starve." "You said that six years ago," said the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. H. 10. Holland). Mr. Jones: "Probably I did, and I cannot see that the policy of the Socialists has altered. . . If they have an immigration policy, what is it? I will ask them to define their policy. I am fairly familiar with politics in this country, and I hava never yet seen anything in 'Hansard' setting out tho policy of the Socialists in connection with immigration—anything that it is conceivable could be carried out." The Labour Party's policy was "You people in the Old Country, starve where you are; we want to live in plenty here." (Opposition dissent.) Mr. W. 3. Jordan (Manukau): "You say starve here." Mr. Jones: "The hon. member does not look as if he knows anything about starvation." Mr. Jordan: "Perhaps I do. know something about it." FAILURE NOT PROVED. Mr. Jones said that he came in contact with a large number of immigrants in the country districts, and he did not know of one case where a person was not doing well. He knew that in the cities they would find a number of immigrants who never got anywhere and never did any good in the Old Country. These people were inclined to congregate in cities. f That's not fair," interjected Labour members. Mr. Jones said that the illustrations given by the Socialists in the House had been so trifling that they had not proved the immigration policy to be ( a failure. The fact that so few complaints had been Teceived by members of Parliament showed, that the scheme was a success. It was a credit to the Government that 95 per cent, of the immigrants had been successful and were living under better conditions than they had enjoyed at Home. "Every member in the House," proceeded Mr. Jones, "knows that the Socialists in this House this sossion would have been bankrupt had it not been for unemployment and immigration.'' Mr. H. T. Armstrong (Christchurch East): "You are bankrupt without it." Mr. Jones: "We all know that the only things the Labour Party really knows are Socialistic, and that it does not express those views to-day. It dare not do it." , Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Avon); "You have got a nightmare." "The total capital of the Labour Party is purely unemployment and immigration," said Mr. Jones. "Had these two things not been here to-day we should not have heard from them. .. . Are the Labour Party, as public men, prepared to define their policy in connection with immigration?" Mr. Jones said that so far as women were concerned there was no unemployment known to the Government or to the Labour Party. Mr. E. M'Keen (Wellington South): "There are 230 registered in Auckland." Mr. Jones: "It seems extraordinary Sir, that all the evil things this session are coming from Auckland. I noted the other day that they had a plague of ants up there." Mr. W. E. Parry (Auckland Central): "They're red ants, not white ones." In conclusion, Mr. Jones said that in bringing out 50,000 immigrants in the last five years the Reform Party had done a signal service to New Zealand and to Britain. PERSONAL ABUSE RESENTED. "I think it is a long time since we heard such an extraordinary outburst as we have heard from the hon. member for Ellesmere this afternoon," said the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. H. E. Holland). "We pride ourselves on the standard of debate in this House. I think the hon. member has lowered the standard this afternoon. He has resorted to abuse —to personal abuse —of members on these benches. He could not even be courteous enough to refer to the party by name. I hope the Labour members won't adopt the tactics of tho honourable gentleman, because we are concerned about maintaining the high standard of debate in this House, and when you get down to personal abuse and to reflections on the personal appearance of members in this House it does no credit to the hon. gentleman who makes the reflection. I venture to say that during the three years the hon. gentleman was absent from this House the standard of debate was something for this House to be proud of." Mr. Holland said that Mr. Jones had delivered an illogical speech. If there was unemployment in Britain to-day it was due to the capitalistic system which had been kept in operation by the opponents of the Labour Party. The Labour Government at Home did not have an opportunity of remedying matters, because it was a minority Government; but it did reduce the volume of unemployment. There had been no attempt at criticism in Mr. Jones's speech—it was one long tirade of calling names. Did Mr. Jones know that the inflow of immigration into Britain was greater than the flow to the Dominions? How, then, could it be said that this country was helping Britain by taking 10,000 immigrants a year? Mr. Holland said that the Labour Party was not opposed to immigration. What it wanted was a guarantee that a Stateaided immigration scheme must rest on a condition of permanent work and standard rates of wages, sufficient houses for the married men, and no

displacement of men already here in favour of the immigrants. A Reform member: "You put up an impossible proposition."

After inviting Mr. Jones to make himself acquainted with facts before speaking on matters which he knew nothing about, such as immigration, Mr. Holland dealt with the group immigration scheme in Western Australia, which he. claimed had been successful. It was the duty of the Government to see that misleading statements were not published at Home regarding conditions in New Zealand. He stated that ho could give quotations showing that immigrants were having difficulty in finding work, and he mentioned one case where a married immigrant with four children was nominated to come here .but where tho expected position was not available on arrival, the consequence being that the man could only obtain intermittent work. The House shoud ensure that a State-aided system of immigration was conducted in an organised and scientific way. Mr. Holland said ho wanted to make an appeal through the House and the Press that nothing should be done which would develop bitterness and antagonism between the immigrants and the workers who were already in New Zealand. There should be a rearrangement of the present system. However right or wrong the Government's policy might be—and he thought it was verywrong in some respects—the immigrants were in no way to blame for it, and once they were here they must be accorded the right to work and live. A FEW HOME TRUTHS. Mr. J. A. Nash (Palmerston North) considered that Mr. Jones had made a moderate speech. The whole trouble had been that he was trying to send home, a few home-truths to the Labour Party that 'it did not care about. The Labour Party did not want the immigrants. The housing shortage was being overcome, and rents were falling very fast. Mr. Holland had talked about the high standard of debate, but he remembered the time when Mr. Holland had stated that he would carry the brand of the revolutionary Social-, ist. Why did not the Labour Party uphold its previous statements? Simply because it was not politic for it to do so. It was now endeavouring to put on tho soft pedal. The Labour Party was responsible for the few disgruntled immigrants who came here. "It is known," he said, "that these people have been met by a band in Auckland, paraded up Queen street to the Trades Hall, and told of the iniquity of the Government in bringing them hero." What was the Labour Party doing towards helping those in distress? It was all very well to stand up and abuse the Government as the Labour members did, but they did little or nothing when the time came to help. He thought the Government was entitled to the greatest credit for what it was doing in regard to immigratioa. He admitted there was a need for a tightening up in the system so far as the nominators were concerned, and he did not think the right thing had been done in every case. The Government could not bo responsible for everything, but it should be satisfied at this end, before an immigrant was allowed to leave the Old Country, that the position guaranteed to him would be made available to him. "We don't want the immigrants to bo bothered with Socialists following them round and telling them to do this and not to do that," said Mr. Nash, who added that if they were left to themselves, the immigrants would make good. As to the Government expecting local bodies to do their share to relievo unemployment, it was high time that other people should take a hand, instead of the Government being looked to for everything; therefore the local bodies had been requested by the Government to take up the question of unemployment. TJie Hon. D. Buddo (Kaiapoi) urged that the Public Works Department should be charged, with the duty of finding work which would absorb immigrants. The local bodies could not do it. i CAPITAL. PROM THE OLD COUNTRY. Mr. H. G. R. Mason (Eden) disputed a statement that there were no women unemployed, and read a report that there wore 209 such cases in Auckland, including 50 domestics. The question of finding a better land for those in difficulty in the Old Land was one which concerned the Old Country as well as New Zealand. Any Imperial policy must be based on the supply of capital from the Old Land, at a more moderate rate of interest than was being based in New Zealand. "Why should we pay tho interest," he staked, "on capital which must be conceded to be necessary at exorbitant rates, in order to develop our country for the benefit of the people of the Old Land?" Mr. Mason submitted that tho question of capital assistance on the lines of his suggestion, he submitted, should be brought up at the forthcoming Imperial Conference. Mr. W. J. Jordan (Manukau) said that there was no arrangement for proporly settling immigrants in New Zealand. The Prime Minister should go into the Empire settlement scheme when he went to the Imperial Conference. Mr. W. J. Poison, a member of the Rural Credits Commission, had condemned the nominated system of immigration. BEST POLICY IN THE WORLD. Replying to the discussion, the Minister in Charge of Immigration (the Hon. W. Nosworthy) denied that the Government was responsible for the fall in prices of primary produce to which the present unemployment trouble was being attributed. It was not easy to "put the lid on" the immigration arrangements to meet every contingency. The shipping strike had capsized the arrangements this year, and the Government had to keep its undertaking with the thousand or so people for whom arrangements had been made. It had been suffering under disabilities it would not experience in the ordinary course. Mr. Nosworthy said he did not believe there was a better immigration policy than that of New Zealand in any other part of the world, and proof of this was contined in the fact that other countries were expressing a desire to follow the example set by the Dominion. The Australian Commonwealth was hoping to follow in our footsteps, and was making inquiries about our system. Mr. Nosworthy said there was no credit due to him for the system, which had been inaugurated by Sir Francis Bell, who, he thought, believed in it as much to-day as he did when he initiated it. No matter what course was followed in regard to immigration, thousands of people could' not be brought into the country, or into any country, without a few failures, and a few misfits occurring. No Government in the world had taken greater precautions, both physical, mental, and in every other respect, including the examination of the migrants, than had the New Zealand Government, which held the highest testimonials for tho manner in which it made its selections of the people it was proposed to bring into the country. Honourable members on the other side of the House admitted that the immigrants were of a very line type. If a few cases occurred which did not come up to expectations it was not fair to blame the system or tho Government, which, after all, was only trying to make up the deficiency in the population of the Dominion. Twenty thousand valuable New Zealand' lives had been lost during tho war, and the number was still greater if the deaths during the influenza epidemic were added. Assuming that the result was a total of about 30,000, so far only 50,000 P£ 60,00.0 immigrants had been brought

into the country, and taking into consideration the further fact that there was no immigration during the war years, we were still a long way from making up the deficiency in our population. Every month the High Commissioner was advised by cable of the conditions in tho Dominion, but the unemployment problem had arisen only recently, and the system could not be shut down while the difficulty was only a temporary one. Mr. W .A. Veiteh (Wanganui): "Do you propose to ease off in the future?" "No. I d_on't," the Minister replied. "The Government is going on on the same lines as it had been going upon, right to the end." "I hope the end will be soon," interjected Mr. P. Fraser (Wellington Central). Mr. Nosworthy: "It won't be soon; the honourable member can make his mind easy about that." The Government, he said, had set out on a definite course of action, which he believed was right and justified twentyfold. Ninety-five per cent. of. the immigrants had made good, according to the payments they had undertaken to make to the Old Country, and the balance were defaulting only in respect to the first payments. He was hopeful that the bulk of these cases would come up to what was expected of them before they left England. INQUIRIES CONCERNING NOMINEES. Referring to allegations that insufficient inquiry was made by the High Commissioner's office concerning intending iihmigrants, the Minister stated that everyone in New Zealand who made a nomination was required to furnish full particulars, which were sent to the High Commissioner's office, and he denied that the office made its inquiries from the electoral rolls. Not i one person left the Old Country under the nomination system before his case being approved. Mr. Nosworthy said he took full responsibility for all those who had come out under the Government scheme. There had been very few failures in connection with the nomination system, and such a scheme could not be expected to run absolutely perfectly. Replying to statements that female immigrants were unemployed, Mr. Nosworthy pointed out that over a hundred arrived last week by the Tainui, every one of whom had been dispatched to her destination without any trouble. Immigrants never arrived without officers of the Department meeting them and finding them a bed and comfortable lodgings until such time as they were dispatched to their destination. A few paltry complaints had been made in criticism of his administration, said the Minister, but it was underground criticism which was unjust and unfair. Mr. Fraser: "Oh, it got you all right." The Minister; "It has not got me at all." Members of the Labour Party, he said, l«id brought cases to him of what they considered hardship, and there was not one that he had not taken up. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. H. E. Holland): "You have certainly met fairly the cases that I have brought j up." i I WORKING AND PRAYING. Mr. Nosworthy said he resented sug-) gestions that the Government was bringing out immigrants from the Old Country for the purpose of ousting the present inhabitants from their occupations with a view to bringing down the labour market. Both ho and his colleagues had no other wish than to do the best for the country. Mr. Fraser: "You must work for it as well as pray for it." Mr. Nosworthy: "We have worked, and we have prayed, and there has not been failure in either case." He went on to reply to individual charges in regard to maladministration. In conclusion, he reiterated that the Government was going on in the futuro as it had done in the past; it would continue carefully and consistently with its immigration policy, working to place things in a really satisfactory position, and to stock the country with as many of the best class of Anglo-Saxon people as the Old Country could give us. The Minister said that a domestic earning 30s a week was better off than any office girl on £2 10s a week. He dealt with a case in Auckland where a domestic had thrown up her work to take on employment in a shop, saying she was not going to work for the "ladies of Eemuera." "It is not a question of the ladies of, Remuera or any other ladies," said Mr. Nosworthy. "A contract is a contract." He criticised the action of Mr. Bartram, the member for Grey Lynn, in writing to the girl 'and telling her to defy the Immigration Department. He said that Mr. Bartram's action was unfair.