ELECTORAL SYSTEM

Evening Post, Volume CXII, Issue 3, 3 July 1926, Page 15

ELECTORAL SYSTEM

EXPENSES ALLOWANCE TOO LOW

QUESTION OF REPRESENTATION

FIRST-PAST-POST TO REMAIN

INTERESTING DISCUSSION IN HOUSE

" Various phases of election conditions in New Zealand were reviewed in t tho House of Representatives yesterday. Tho general complaint of memtbers was that the present limit of £200 for election expenses did not [leavo candidates sufficient latitude in conducting their campaigns. Sir 'Joseph Ward pleaded for an alteration in the electoral system either by the introduction of proportional representation or preferential voting, but tho Prime Minister stated that it was not intended to legislate in that direction. The Minister in Charge of the Electoral Department (the Hon. A. D. M'Leod) announced that certain amendments would be made in the electoral law this year, but there would be time before the next General Election to consider any general overhaul of the Act.

The most serious aspect of the changes brought about by the Census, said the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. H. E. Holland), following the discussion reported in yesterday's "Post," ■was tho manner in which the South Island constituencies were enlarged cen«us after census. The South Island constituencies were becoming steadily larger and more expensive, until the man who represented a hugo rural constituency was anything from £100 to £200 worse off than the member representing a city constituency. His remuneration was whittled down until it did not resemble a labourer's wage, by reason of tho expenses incurred. That was a problem which would have to be faced sooner or later. He recognised that the North Island had to bo given the representation to which it was entitled by reason of its numerical strength. Tho matter probably would be dealt with during the life of the present Parliament, and he did not wish to go into it any further, except to say that because of the expansion of the South Island constituencies it would very soon becomo impossible in a number of constituencies for any but very wealthy men to accept the representation of the constituencies. It was a bad principle if the door was to be closed against men wljo did not have ■wealth behind them. There must be men in tho House to-day to whom the Parliamentary remuneration meant nothing more than covering the expenses of contesting an election once in three years, and of travelling through his electorate during the rest of the time. It was only nossiblo for certain men to retain their membership in the • House by reason of their private wealth. The Hon. W. Nosworthy: "Why not make the .life of Parliament five years?" Mr. Holland: "I don't think that would help at all." "Why not raise the honorarium1?" suggested Mr. Y. H. Potter (Boskill). THE QUEENSLAND SYSTEM. "I am not suggesting that," replied the speaker. He commended the system in vogue in Queensland, whero the member's allowance was made according to the size of tho constituency. He did not see how a case could be mado for paying one member of the House £450 a year and paying another member an amount that did not represent £250 a year. Mr. Holland asked for an indication as to whether the matters which had been touched upon ■would be considered by tho Government -in the course of the present session. Mr. T. K. Sidey (Dunedin South) sgreed that where an election petition was lodged on account of some irregularity not due to his own inaccuracy, it was not fair that the cost of the petition proceedings should be cast upon him. It was a long time since the question of expenses had been reviewed. When the allowance was first proposed the idea was to remove the undue advantage which the wealthy man might have in contesting an election. Mr. Sidey said it was hoped that the matter would be carefully gone into by the Government and s the Minister. It was also a moot question whether tho time-between the censuses should not be extended. He was not at all certain that there was a necessity for a five-year: census, and that it should not be taken every ten years, as very complete records of births and deaths, arrivals and departures were kept. He thought that the North Island might be given an increase in members without the South Island losing any. TRAVELLING DIFFICULTIES. The Hon. D. Buddo (Kaiapoi) commented on the size of the South Island electorates and tho difficulties members experienced in getting round them owing to their extraordinary- shape. He protested against changes in boundaries being made without the Boundary Commissioners hearing evidence in rebuttal. Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Avon) said he had listened with pleasure to what Mr. Forbes had had to say (reported in yesterday's "Post"). Apparently Mr. Forbes had changed his views, and realised that the suggestion mado by the Leader of the Opposition was in the interests of political purity. (Laughter.) A gentleman on the Beform side had told him that the Reform election expenses were very much less than what was supposed. (Laughter.) He hoped that that was actually so, but if it was, then the Reformers must have had some very good bargainers in the matter of dealing with the newspapers. The sum of £200 for election expenses was too low. Mr. H. Atmore (Nelson): "Bidiciilcusly low." (Laughter.) "Of course it is," Mr. Sullivan went , on. Unless tho Reform Party had a burst of unusual frankness and gave a list of its subscribers; perhaps it would say -whether it had got its money from those people whose taxation had been reduced. That would bo of very great interest. He suggested that tho party funds expenditure should be limited in proportion to the number of party candidates. That would bo fair to tho Beform Party candidates, who admittedly suffered ■ great disadvantages in the matter of being ablo to explain politics intelligently to the country. (Laughter.) Mr. Forbes: "They have a bad case." Mr. Sullivan said that if th'o Reformers were allowed £400 or £500 apiece inclusive of party funds it would be a fail' thing. Speaking as a representative of one of the largest electorates, Mr. J. T. Horn (Wakatipu), said it was imppssible for a representative to do justice to his constituents on .£2OO. He quoted the difficulties encountered in his electorate, and said that ho had only 24 days on which to speak. The Hon. A. D. M'Leod: "Oh, you got in all right." (Laughter.) In a constituency liko Wakatipu, eaid Mr. Horn, it would be fair to make the expenses £350. He could not reply to the full page Reform advertisements staring him in the face from day to day, as to do so would have causod him to exceed his legal limit of expenses. Yet, one of his opponents had told him that, although there was_ no' chance of his (flic opponent's) election, all his expenses were being paid. SOUTH ISLAND'S DANGER. Mr. H. L. Taploy (Dunedin North) eaid it looked as if the South Island might lose one or two seats. North Island members were sufficiently

"sporting," ho felt sure, to prevent a dwindling in South Island representation. If that sort of thing went on the South' Island might lose its reprosentation altogether. Perhaps some members might think that a good thing —(laughter)—but it would not bo fair to the South. The South Island's minimum should not bo allowed to drop below 30. Mr. T. E. Y. Seddon (Westland) said he knew of no precedent -wh.re in the case of a tie the returning officer should cast his vote for the sitting member. It should be made clear that the returning officer had only one vote in an election. He agreed with the suggestion of the Hon. A. D. M'Leod that a returning officer should vote, but that the vote should be sealed up for use if required. The vote should be made a month or so before.the election. Mr. J. M( Combs (Lyttelton) pointed out instances of alleged official neglect which, if they had not occurred, would, he said, have made the recent Lyttelton election petition unnecessary. He submitted that it was unfair that public men should have to pay heavy petition costs directly brought about by the negligence of a public official. "I maintain," he said, "that public men should not be mulcted in costs through faults that are not their own." I AN UNFAIR LAW. The Bight Hon. Sir J. G. Ward (Invercargill) said it was natural that there should be soreness after an election. The electoral law to-day was I most unfair, un-British, and unsatisfactory. ■ He' did not believe the Prime Minister knew how his name was being used in election advertisements. These advertisements always contained an ex hortation to electors to vote for the Beform candidate .in the respective constituencies. Had any individual candidate attempted similar methods he would have been disqualified; He himself had no opoprtunity of replying legally to those advertisements by similar methods. The electoral law should.be altered to afford the people the right -to secure majority representation. Either proportional representation or the alternative vote should bo introduced. Sir. Joseph Ward said that the Government after next election was just as likely to be in a minority as to bo in a majority. Ho suggested that the law should be altered so that the people might be assured of securing majority rule. That was why he suggested having either the alternative vote or proportional representation. At or.c timo they had the second ballot, but that was repealed, the promise being that they were to have something bettor. France j was one of the most difficult countries in the world to govern, but she had stuck to the second ballot system right through. The Government ought to be able to evolve a more satisfactory electoral system than the present, which was chaotic. If it did so it would remove a feeling of unfairness. Mr. Nosworthy: "The Liberal Party stayed in twenty years on this present system." "No, we had the second ballot part of the time," replied Sir Joseph, who added that for a greater portion of the timo there was no separate Labour Party. When the third party came in the law should have been altered. Nobody need fear the Labour Party, which would be bound to have a respectable Opposition if it did come into office. He reminded the House that responsibility was the great leveller, and very

The Harbour Board's dredge Whakarire,. while working at the mouth of the Hutt River last week, picked up this old cannon ball. It wr.s discovered when the pump refused to discharge the spoil at tho Thorndon reclamation, for though the pump was quite willing to handle a 28-pound ball of iron, It wa3 too big to go through. Probably the shot dates back to 1840, but from what ship it was fired is not at all likely to be decided.

often had tho effect of preventing people from doing what they had previously talked about. Sir Joseph said that from the point of view of population the North Island was rightly outstepping the South Island. He suggested that as the population increased in the North Island the number of constituencies could be allowed to increase, but that the fcJoutli Island should be allowed to remain unaffected by those increases. NO PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION. Tho Prime Minister (the Right Hon. J. G. Goates) said that no legislation would be sanctioned by tho Koform Party which would alter tho electoral system in the direction indicated by Si"Joseph Ward. New South Wales, which had proportional representation, was j going, back to the first-past-the-post system. A Labour was doing that because proportional representation was unsatisfactory. He did not favour the JJMI party having re presentation, as TfPHhought all reasonj able peoplfc would agree that there was only room for two parties in New /inland. Tho best thing that could hapj pen would be for the Liberals and Nationalists to join up with the Government and give them a hand. (Laughter.) Anything that led to a number of parties coming into being mudo gov ernment very difficult. It was true tha*. a large party was difficult to handle and that it was beset with dangers a

small party was not subject to, tut no one expected to get through without disappointing someone. B.ut, if there was going to be party Government let them bo loyal to their parties. Ho had been elected to tho House purely as a non-party man, and it had taken him a long while to find, out that the man going,on his way single-handed had no place and got nowhere. One had to bo loyal to one party or tho other. No one regretted more than ho did that there was an increase in population in tho North Island to the detriment of tho South Island. Equal and gradual growth was what they would all desire. He did not think that it would bo wise, however, to depart from the principle of having the electoral boundaries fixed according to population. The suggestion made by Mr. Sidcy in regard to deaennial Censuses was worthy of consideration, but the fixing of hard and fast electoral boundaries was opposed to a principle which had been laid down for a long timo in New Zealand, and once they broke away from a principle they did not know what would be the end of

They did not want to have fixed pocket boroughs spring up. He admitted the7 electorates were large and that that made for difficulty, but that did not apply ; .solcly to the South Island. After all, it came back to "a matter of organisation, and a question of party government. If one member was to be lost to the South Island it would be unfortunate, but, on the other hand, he looked upon any fixation scheme ar being surrounded by. danger. The prin ciplo here was that a certain number of people should constitute an electorate. The licensing issue introduced grave difficulties in regard to community of interest. Mr. E. J. Howard (Christchurch South) said that anyone who knew anything about the position would recognise that election advertisements costmore than the legal amount. He had heard it said that all Labour members had all their expenses paid; that was' not so. Ho had always paid his full, election expenses, except at last election, when he received a small allowance. The speaker alleged that the Prime Minister had broadcasted a speech by wireless in defiance of the broadcasting regulations. The Prime Minister: "I quite admit that one or two efforts were broadcasted, but I think the lion, gentleman had the same rights." Mr. Howard: "I can assure the-Prime Minister that he evidently does not un derstand his own law." Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui) said that the facts showed that unquestionI ably the Reform Party'had violated the law in regard to campaign funds. He suggested that an opinion should be sought from the Crown Law Office in the matter. The Prime Minister pointed out that there was an election case at the pro- ■ sent time. Mr. Veitch replied that ho'was not r.ware of that and that rather than do anything unfair ho would accept .the assurance and drop the subject.. The Hon. A. D. M'Leod (Minister in Charge of the Electoral Department) said that they could not but bo sorry that the South Island was likely to lose seats, but if Cook Strait did not exist he could not help thinking that the question would not arise. ' The Leader of tho Opposition: "The population would have distributed it self." TIME BEFORE NEXT ELECTION. The Minister said that that would bi so. The question of representation war under consideration, but there would be time to deal with it before the Jicxt General Election came along. He knew of three electorates in the North Island which were larger than any in the South Island. Ho did not think that, they should depart from the automatic principle-of fixing the quota in the electorates according to'tho population. The system would work out equally, irrespective of what party was in power. In Queensland, where there was no automatic system like in New Zealand, they saw whero 40,000 electors returned 12 members, and 60,000 members returned four. Ten out of the 12 members he had alluded to were Labour members, but he did not think that it: would have been any different had any other Government been in office, for it would have retained the system which gave it the greatest advantage. The New Zealand system did not give room for that kind of thing occurring, and what would benefit one party to-day would injure another, in the future, Legislation had been prepared in connection with one or two matters which it was thought desirable to put right immediately, but the general overhaul of the system need not be done until next session.