DOMINION DEFENCE

Evening Post, Volume CVI, Issue 41, 17 August 1923, Page 11

DOMINION DEFENCE

liABOUR PARTY'S ATTITUDE

ISSUE RAISED IN HOUSE

TERRITORIAL SCHEME CRITI- . •- CISED.

"•^Where does the Labour Party stand in relation to defence? This was one of the important issues raised in the House of Representatives yesterday, when the Pefence Report was brought down.

,Mr. A. J. Lee, the Labour member for Auckland Ea«t, initiated the debate by condemning- the waste of money j on the Territorial system from which, ■ he alleged, poor value was received. A ! staff of captains and majors was kept who ' "gallantly went over the top in pursuit I of the small boy who did not attend some drill or other." It was always urged that the Labour Party was against defence, but that was not so. What the Labour Party did not believe in was senseless extravagance. The boys learn- ' ed nothing from the senseless movements they had to go through. Anyone who ] bad been.to the front would know that ho one sloped arms by numbers on a shell-swept .field. Submitting boys to. senseless indignities, such as making them advance one pace^ to cough, was -no training for war. Instead of creating in the "boys a desire' to" defend their country, the present methods were creating a hatred of the whole military system. What should be established wag a nucleus, of, highly skilled n.c.o.'s to form the basis of a,defence force, which could be developed in: time ol war. Mr. Lee criticised the Auckland naval defences. "I suppc-se," he said, "th« reason we maintain a fort-in the heart of:the city is so that when an enemy ship comes she can be sunk in the sight of the citizens, and with the band playing 'Rule Britannia' meanwhile. Let us have some commonsense about the thing." _ i Mr. Massey: "Hear hear." Mr. F. Langstone (Waimarino): "We don't get it over there" (the Reform ! benches). ' ,- , , ">\ TOT OPPOSED TO DEFENCE." Mr. Lee..said.that when a deputation of Labour members spoke in favour of aviation, the Prime Minister became highly indignant. Mr. Massey: "That is not so." - Mr. Lee said the Labour Party believ-; fed in spending money on commercial aviation rather than on the. Territorial system. Air pilots would no doubt serve in time of war. But he supposed that while the generals. and majors were gallantly "going over ! the top" to. capture the small I boy who was dodging drill, they could expect nothing from the Reform, Party. The Labour Party was-not op- 1! posed;to defence. Voices: "Question." The. Labour-Party's, idea of defence, proceeded Mr... Lee> was on the lines suggested by ; quite'a number of "eminent authorities on the question. "We heard an eminent authority the other day," he said, "say that merchantmen might be built- for commercial the peace ideal predominant—and could be strengthened in time of war. We heard that from a commodore of the British Navy." 'The labour Party believed.in that view. All the country's defence must have behind it the peace idea. General Richardson, in addressing wounded men at Oatlands, in England, had given liis views on New Zealand defence, and | had advocated the establishment of an aerial force, and the stationing of small naval units in the chief ports. If that >-ere done, continued Mr. Lee, they [would not irritate or aggravate the young men in this country without securing any positive result, but would place the defences upon a firm basis, and at the same time have them governed by the idea of peace.

WHERE IS LABOUR'S POLICY? The Minister of Customs (the Hon. W. Downie Stewart) pointed but that the ] Labour Party had cut out from its platform the plank providing for the estab- j lishmeni of a Territorial force, paid at trades union ' rates of .wages—an idea ■which he had criticised on the ground that it was the quickest way to get a standing army—and now wanted to repeal the Defence Act and the Military Service sAct, and the War Regulations i ■which in any way dealt with defence. He had before him a copy of the Labour Party's platform, and the only thing it said about defence was that the allmilitary instruction should be replaced by constructive education in the schools in humane thought. If the Labour Party had a defence policy it should be made/ known. He would like to have details of the system which Mr. Lee said the Xabour Party supported. -'•* •' .'- - : ' Mr. M.' J. Savage (Auckland West), in reply to the Minister of Customs, said that it was more important to know what the defence policy of the Government was. "We are not going to allow any red herring to.be drawn across the track to. take us off the scent," he said. "The Labour Party will discuss its programme in the proper time and place. No party and no Government can defend an empty territory." : The Government did not gay. how it was going to fill the empty spaces. It had been eleven years trying to do the job, and was further away from it now than when it began. It was no use talking about ' spending a couple of hundred thousand pounds on Singapore, or of having a' boat in the Pacific' "We have got past the childhood stage," remarked Mr. Savage, "and the first thing to do is to fill our empty territory. Whero is the Government's policy?"

Mr. A. R. Harris CVVaitemata) relerred to the "retrograde step" of abolishing the junior cadet system, which had. trained boys in pride of country. Why that system was done away with he could never understand. He knew Sir Jgfiies Allen had been opposed to it, but the reason had never been placed before the House. While he did not agree' with Mr. Lee, he must admit that the Territorial system was not proving to be so useful as was hoped when it was instituted. Tho boj'B were half-hearted in their ■work, and that was not satisfactory. There were weaknesses in the-system, and it should be brought up to date. The forts at Auckland' were required. • SUBSIDISE BRITAIN FOR PROTECTION. Mr: Gt. Witty (Rlccarton) said it was &, question whether the Defence Department should not be wiped out with the exception of the maintenance of a cadet, , system. Money was being spent to.no purpose No country was going to land a force here, and the most v/a should have for defence was a few torpedo boats and aeroplanes. The New" Zealaiiders were such good material that they could take their place in the field without having to go through a lot of the present training; It would be better to subsidise the Old Countvy for protection rather than have a lot of dissatisfied young fellows Mr. F. W. Bartram (Grey Lynn) said Labour Party had a suspicion that

boys were compelled to parade at carnivals for advertising purposes. The Minister's denial on that point should be made us clear as possible. Labour considered that if the country was to be defended it should be filled with a. healthy population. The building of one decent home for a -.voyking-class family was of far greater importance from the point of view of defence than training scores of boys. Mr. G. M'Kay (Hawkes Bay) said it was an absolute waste of money to go on with the present system, which was destroying the boys' love of home life. More money should be spent on aviation. The Hon. D. Buddo (Kaiapoi) said itwas a pity the country wasnot told what was absolutely necessary in the way of, defence. He regretted that: the. Junior Cadet system had been abolished. BOYS AND "MILITARISM." Mr. H. E. Holland (Buller) said it was a joko to call the New Zealand system a system of defence. The Dominion had possessed a "one-ship navy" to defend the country from any ships that came down from the North. Then another ship was added. A wrong was being done to the boys by bringing them within the atmosphere of militarism. More should be done in the way of physical instruction. Nothing was to be gained from the moral, standpoint, by dressing up a boy in soldier's clothes, putting a gun in his hands, and instructing him how to drive a bayonet home and inflict a mortal wound. Mr. Holland protested against Territorials being compelled to attend church parades and Anzac Day services in uniform. If tho boys wanted to attend voluntarily there could' be no objection, but it was wrong to compel them to go; Money was being spent on instruction in obsolete methods of warfare, when attention should be given to the. possible developments of the future. However, H would be better to consider the means of doing away with warfare altogether; Mr. P. A_ de la Perrelle (Awarua) condemned the defence system as ..useless, and urged that more money should be devoted to naval protection. Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui) considered that the Territorial system should be brought into line with public sentiment. One thing he desired to draw attention to was tho interference it caused with' young men running businesses single-handed.

THE MINISTER'S VIEWS; The Minister of pefence (the Hon; Sir Heaton Rhodes) said it was necessary to have a small group of skilled officers. It was true thafc men could be trained in a comparatively short space of time, but a longer and more intensive period of training was necessary for the instructors. He had no doubt that further provision in respect to aviation and the relation of seaplanes to the Navy would be discussed at the Conference to be attended by the Prime Minister shortly. He main- . tamed that the Prime Minister had already given an earnest of the Governments intention in regard to the development of aviation in the Dominion. He defended the Senior Cadet system, and said the boys were very efficient arid could hold their "own With any other cadets;