ONGARUE INQUIRY

Evening Post, Volume CVI, Issue 32, 7 August 1923, Page 8

ONGARUE INQUIRY

EVIDENCE OF EXPERTS

QUESTION OF SPEED AND TIME-

TABLE

WHAT THE PUBLIC ASKS FOR.

The Board of Inquiry into the Ongarue railway disaster—Messrs. W. G. Riddell, S.M., chairman, J. P. • Maxwell, and J. Marchbanks—is sitting in Wellington in the Magistrate's Court to-day. Mr.. H. H. Sterling appeared for tha Railway Department.

The inquiry was adjourned from Auckland.

Herbert Burton, Chief Traffic Manager o; the New Zealand railways, gave evidence as to the time-table between Auckland and Wellington, and the reasons for fixing it as it was. The Department at the outset considered the question, he said, of the time-table that would best meet the public convenience with the greatest range for. mail traffic and paseenger traffic. By fixing tile time of departure in the evening from Auckland opportunity was given passengers from the North of Auckland to catch the train at Auckland, and the time of arrival al Wellington was fixed to enable passengers to catch the ferry boat for centres of the South Island. Th e time of departure from Wellington was fixed to enable ferry boat passengers from tho South to catch the train for Auckland, and the arrival at Auckland to let passengers catch. trains out •of Auckland and get to their destinations as early as possible. The time-table had met the public convenience, as was shown by the comparative patronage ■of extra espresses. The time was originally twenty hours, when the line was rough and raw. The time was now about eighteen hours, and had been standing for seven or eight years. The reduction had not been [all at one time. It was inevitable that some portion of the journey should be done in the dark. The public continually asked for faster trains, not only for long 1 distance, but for short distance trains. There were constant applications to the Department to speed up.

To Mr. Biddell: The reduction from twenty, hours to eighteen hours for the Auckland-Wellington trip was not raada at the institgatiqn of outside pressure. It was done in Mr. Hiley's time, but there ■was no special agitation by the public in this particular case. It was considered that the time could be safely reduced to eighteen hours. : THE MAXIMUM SPEED. •; : To Mr. Riddell: The maximum speed varied from 45\ miles per hour to 35 miles per hour, and was subject to special conditions as regards curvature and other factors. In the particular locality, the maximum speed was limited to 35 miles an hour. To Mr. Sterling: It was certainly not the policy of the Department to sacrifice safety for speed. The general principle adopted by the Department was ■"safety first." The public, continued the witness, preferred night journeys for long ' dis- ; tances .on.a.cc : QUnt / oi..tne saving, of business -time;"' Since the line was constrnct-, ed between 50,000 and 60,000 had passed over that point on the line previously without accident. Continuing, the witness said that it was the general instruction that ambulance boxes should be carried in the guards' vans of trains. The contents' were periodically inspected. The articles : were enumerated from the list given'in the railway time-table. Since that list - was published there had been additions of four ounces of cotton wool, 2-ounces of iodide gauze, and four ounces of Iysol. Mr. Sterling: "The point is that the • question has been raised as to whether there was lysol in the boxes." The witness continued that the Department had the knowledge of what was being done on other railways and the expert advice of its medical officers. On the question of carrying portable telephones on trains, the witness said that the Department had such tole-' phones in use in different parts of the country, and had not found them of very great practical benefit. Although they were inspected from time to time as to order (/ there was always a chance that owing to exigencies of carriage in the guard's van there was a difficulty of getting an effective connection. The men using them had to know the wire to hook on to and the importance of getting a sound "earth." In darkness their use was -impossible, because the wires could not be seen. The experience of the Department had been that portable telephones on trains were not ol much assistance. : To Mr. Riddell: The Department was prepared to carry anything of any use. _ Doctors had recommended Iysol, but iodine, of course, could be carried and picric acid. Mr. Riddell: both might be carried." DELAYS TO TRAINS. • To Mr. Marchbanks: There had been a number of delays to trains on the line, but not more than in the Wanganui district in the early days and in the Manawatu Gorge. They all settled down in the long run. Trains were not sent forward on the off-chance of getting through. The maximum speed of 35 miles an hour in this locality was not often run. -To Mr. Maxwell: He had been 49 years in the Department. There were a' great many considerations to take into account in making time-tables. Rules and regulations had to be considered. The purpose was public service and convenience. The first consideration was the public safety. Other considerations were the road, its running capacity, and its fitness. There was considerable public pressure to speed up.' Ec -had never known the, public ask for grains to be made slower. It was al- ; ways the other way. The public fre- j , quently demanded that trains should be at fresh stations. This was in accordance with the growth of popula--tion. One demand was in the direction -Df faster speed and the other was for .more frequent stops. In making the express time-table of the Main Trunk a great many connections had to be considered. The witness cited many instances between Auckland and Wellington. The Main Trunk service practically covered the whole of the North Is- ; land. There was also the question of mails, local and foreign, and steamers. The time-table was a compromise between all these renditions. It was the best arrangement they could make. Traffic was occasionally stopped by accidents, floods, slips, and so forth. In the section in which the disaster occurred— the Frankton to Marton —local train alterations had to be.made to meet the conditions of slips. When a train was running late, it became, according to the Rules, a special train, but it still maintained its identity. The inspections and other precautions had to be special in the case of trains running as

late as in the case of that which met with < the accident.

HAD TRAIN BEEN RUNNING AT

NORMAL TIME.

Mr. Maxwell: "Had the train-been running at its. normal time, the accident would not have occurred;' it might have missed the slip?"—" The question was -whether the train- could have got further than Frankton, even if it had left Auckland to time, and it might have been delayed to just the sam» time at Ongarue." The witness agreed that it was undesirable to alter the time-table. An' alteration in running a train out of timetable time was attended with unforeseen risks, of course.

Mr. Maxwell: "Were difficulties threatened on the particular section?" — "I could not say. I know the particular, reason why this particular train was held up."

Mr. Marchbanks: "If the train were limited and lighter, would that be better?"—" It is a matter of business. If some stops were cut out, the public Would demand more speed. I don't consider our trains are too heavy, and they are certainly not fast." A smaller and lighter train would be an advantage in making up time, but he would not favour it, unless for the purpose of giving a faster service.

To Mr. Marchbanks: That would not involve an increase in the minimum speed. Tho time of the trip could bo shortened without increasing tlie present maximum speed. Fewef- stops and a lighter train would enable that to be done. The Department had purchased a number of more powerful engines in recent years. This was done with tho i deliberate purpose of running larger trains on steeper grades, and also to economise public time, H e would. not recommend abandoning these heavy powerful engines in order to run lighter trains. He did not think the present trains were unwieldy. THE COST TO THE TAXPAYER, To Mr. Maxwell: The Department had to keep in view the cost of the taxpayer, and give a service with due regard to | economy. Mr. Riddell: "Suppose you had a lighter train, when would yon start the second train?"—" When we were running two-trains the extra left Wellington in the evening, and Auckland at midday. It was a question of arrival at the termini. A train leaving Auckland at 9 a.m. would arrive in Wellington at 3 a.m., which would be absurd. The expense of two lighter trains would be greater than one heavy train. When business increased, they would have to run two trains again. They had run as many as five trains in one day each way." To Mr. Marchbanks: There was a general maximum of twenty vehicles— twenty standard carriages—for a firstclass passenger train. He had never known of twenty vehicles on a Main Trunk train. Each standard carriage would weigh about 23 tons, a total train weight of 450 tons, nothing for a level line, but difficult on the grades. . SUGGESTIONS FOR SAFETY. Francis William Mac Lean, Chief Engineer of the New Zealand Railways, said that lie had been 39 years with the Department, and previous to that 7^ years with the North British Railway. . As to suggestions for " safety, Mr. "Mac Lean dealt with the question of wires along the face of possible slips capable in event of a slip of operating a danger signal. This had been actually tried in Scotland on, the civ.railway -ahdi connections' with electrical and mechanical were made. A boulder came down and jumped the whole gear. The experiment was abandoned. A slip in the shape of of a slurry would not work a .wire. The suggestion had been made time and again, and was quite unworkable. Then there was the minor question of expense. There were 3000 miles of railway, and probably about 1000 miles of cuttings Probably 30,000 cuttings would have to be so equipped. It was difficult to know what was a dangerous) cutting, as that at Ongarue was considered one of the safest on the line. Apparatus of this kind would be liable 'to all sorts of interference and would require constant inspection and adjustment to keep it in working order. UNWORKABLE SUGGESTIONS. Mr. SlacLean did not think that a look-out in front of the engine as suggested would be at all practicable. In the case of Ongarue visibility in daylight was only 45 yards ahead. The witness did not think the so-called dead-end ' system of danger-signals in the case of falling slips was in any way feasible either. The result would probably be that it would give all sorts of warnings when there was no occasion, ihese suggestions were unworkable. As to the removal of boulders from cuttings the probability was that in this case the boulder would not have been visible before the accident. • To Mr. Riddell: The Department en- ■ couraged the growth of vegetation on the slopes of cuttings. To Mr. Maxwell: It is the custom to sow faces of cuttings in Britain with grass. Sowing was part of the work of the contractor in finishing a line. Continuing, tlie witness said there were quite a .-lumber of telephones at different stages on parts of lines which were considered troublesome, as between Taumarunui and HunterviUe, on the Midland line, and on the Otago Central, and in the Manawatu Gorge. Where the Ongarue accident occurred was one of the most innocent-looking pieces of country on the line. Nothing had happened on the line since it was opened in 1903. and fhe country was considered reasonably stable. Gangs were strengthened in bad weather, but it was no use strengthening a gang with* inexperienc- ' ed men. Reinforcements were sent from I other localities. The instructions about ! patrolling the line were very clear, and j in stormy weather men were instructed to go out specially and patrol the : ime. The witness cited the instance of a gang seeing a cioud burst on the Wanganui lir.e alvut A miles away, and immediately ftimying to the spot to stop a train .due at ths time. . Slips came down very suddenly, and there was no real safe*-y even in elaborate patrolling at night.. Thfse prints were considered when nigbt-i; ( nniiig wa;. contemplated on the M:iin Trunk. In regard to the running of patrol engines the tablet system meant that the pilot engine must be a section ahead of the train and accidents might occurr in the interval. The Department, cKTne tc the conclusion that it must rely on the evening and morning inspection daily and the thorough weekly inspeci;i?<i. Special clanger zones were specially wat.,:hed. lie considered that the conclusion arjrved at had been amply justified. There had been very few accidents. A pilot engine might very weii be t.\e cause of a slip coining down behind n. The witness mentioned the case vhere a goods train between Kakihi and Ongarue got through and quariar o'. an hour later another train ran into one on the same section.

Mr. Mac Lean said that he did not think the suggestion of carelessness among the track men was in any way justified. Track men took special care of- their sections to avoid any trouble or accident on them. In regard to the suggestion for daylight running, the witness produced a diagram showing the mountain section between Te Kuiti and Marton arranged for daylight running. The conclusions were that it was quite

impracticable. The least possible darkness was on a train leaving Auckland at midnight, and arriving in Wellington at 6 p.m. This would practically correspond to the time of the train which met with the accident. Daylight in the winter would .be met near Taumarunui, and lost at Paekakariki. The alternative to running trains in the dark would be to stop over the night at-an intermediate station. The public would not tolerate that. It was not practicable to make a difference of speed limits between daylight and dark. PROBABLE CAUSE OF SLIP. Continuing, the witness said he had examined the slip the day after the accident. He thought it would be about fifty yards wide. The rainfall had been about three times the normal, yet he could not see any other sign of slip or tendency to slip. Mr. Sterling: '.' Did you form any idea of the cause of the slip?" The witness: " Yes. The country in this particular place is of pumice formation, with occasional boulders in it overlying papa rock. The whole of this pumice is of a somewhat porus nature, and water would find its way down. Just at this particular place the papa underlying reef was in the form of a hollow, constituting a sort of underground drainage channel. I take it that tnis water oozing out took away the surface _ vegetation, and toughed off the pumice which was supporting in suspension the underground boulders. Several of these undermined in this way fell on the track. " Did you form any idea when the slip came down?" "That is a matter of speculation. Judging from som e experience of these things, 1 think the slip came down with tile passing of the train. Possibly the vibration of the approaching train might just have turned the balance of support and let the stone come down Continuing. Mr. Mac Lean said that he thought the line was located in the best practicable position. It might be possible to make easier curves, but this i would involve deeper cuttings, greater cuttings, and greater danger. It was always advisable to keep to the surface of the country if it could be done. At this stage the inquiry adjourned till the afternoon. . I